[quote author=dafman link=topic=1728.msg225682#msg225682 date=1141303238

@ Weev: your mum is a nigerian? I could have sworn that pix is of a white woman
[quote][/quote]

@ Dafman, hmm! i am used to that attitude, when i was growing up in the UK everyone referred to be as black or colored, when i am in Nigeria everyone calls me white . i know i am light skinned but look in my eyes oh yeah and i am built to African standards too

when i checked your prof, you looked like a white
how come they referred to you as black or coloured

@ weev

The lady in that pic looks mixed. You are right. To a white person you look a little dark and to a black person you are definitely white. I guess i have seen too many shades of black so much that it is easy to tell.

To put my own 50 cents on the interracial issue, i don't have a problem with it. I don't need to marry for paper or anything and yet my ex-fiancee was white. I guess it is a matter of love. I have found out that your skin color has nothing to do with love but it does have a lot to do with other things. I have seen interracial marriages that stood the test of time. So i have no problem with it.

weev i cld tell u waz mixed newayz . u have a nice smile

all mixed raced black/white in da uk refer themselves as black but a liighter shade, all i met all act black u can tell they r black or atleast have black in them. weev u r not white, damn im light skinned but a bit darker than u and my parents r both black, lol if u guyz see ma picture u gonna think im white?

Rhodalyn, i was called black or colored because my mother is Nigerian and if i were to define myself i would call myself black.

@panthress thanx that was sweet of you.

@ Thagodfada, thank u too being black is more than the colour of someones skin.

as i said earlier my parents have been in a happy mixed marriage for nearly 40yrs, if you marry for the right reasons it will work and if you marry for the wrong reason it will not  irrespective of colour.

Well, i see absolutely nothing wrong with an interracial marriage. As a matter of fact i'm black & i love white girls . Come to think of it, more white girls like black guys nowadays. I heard this from the horse's mouth

oohh sure u did & it made a whole lot of sense OMG!!

"i've been conditioned. even my conditioning is conditioned." these are the words from a BlackStar song ---> look it up. it'll be good for you.

anyhow, i'm w/ NFERYN. I HATE THE TERM "jungle fever". i hate all this FEVERISH IMAGINARY RUBBISH about the scarity of black men.

ladies & gents MORE BOYS THAN GRRLS ARE BORN ON THIS EARTH EVERYDAY. there are enough to go around. that's the secret b/c men know that if WOMEN KNEW that they had their choice in life, then this world would be a much different place. (follow me?)

how does this relate to "jungle fever"? well, look how the question was framed and the answers! it relates b/c interracial relationships are ALWAYS (read:95%) presented as BLACK MALE(s) want to Bleep WHITE FEMALES. and this racist myth is built on the back of the assumed inferiority of BLACK WOMEN. yet all t/o history we see AS MANY, yes, AS MANY white male & black female relationships. think: who came all the way to africa to have a baby w/ the QUEEN OF SHEBA hmmmm. but, interracial relationships are always justified by the LACK on the part of the BLACK WOMEN.

(this is the point where i wish i could go off and talk about machiavelli's "the prince" so that everyone would be perfectly clear about why denigrating women is SO IMPORTANT TO THE DESTRUCTION OF A SOCIETY and military succes/colonialism. this is the point where i wish i could examine how caste systems/color hierarchies/race hierarchies and classism intersect only to distract from the real problems. sigh )

i live in america. i grew up mostly w/ white people and the non-white people were not black. ive see SO MUCH. TOO MUCH even & though i know some of ya'll are going to take this post the wrong way, it's just sad that even in AFRICA, people can't esteem black people. ***shaking my head***the world today.

does esteeming black people mean marrying black? is this ya grl CHI saying that these relationships shouldnt exist? NO!!! i only want us as BLACK PPL, the ORIGINAL people, as AFRICANS to examine our own preferences and the way we are conditioned from the media to our experiences at the barbershop/school, etc.

@ jagwar

what is your love of white girls based on? i'm sure if you made a list you would find your love of them is infact the love of women in general. however, if your beauty aesthitic leans toward the appreciation of the "european" form i have no quarrel w/ you ---> only a suggested reading list.

i could go on and question almost everyone who posted here to try to get at the underlining PREJUDICES they hold and do not realize ---> i do this for a living folks.

again, i don't think interracial relations(hips) are wrong but i DO think that once we begin to preference a RACE NOT OUR OWN their is a problem. and to preference someone BY SKIN COLOR is counterproductive and COUNTERINTUITIVE (if you don't believe watch children play, those lil smarties don't know if they're purple to say nothing of white and black).

i've been where some of you are & i'll pray for where the journey takes you. trust.

i just went back and reread some of the posts. i'm so sad for some of ya'll right now. honestly & truly. i don't think i can sleep after this.

@ nddy

don't you realize saying:

Black girls to me are to choosy and all those sh(I)t.

is just as ignorant as saying:

"African men to me are lazy and sh(I)t. choosy too. they want a women to cook, clean, have babies, work, and be good in bed too."

Ignorant huh? just like all other generalization propagated by IGNORANCE & HATRED instead of FACTS/TRUTH.

by the way, what sort of idiot would let someone kiss them (wine, dine, whatever), marry them, PENETRATE them, and have babies w/ them w/o BEING CHOOSY do you think that white women aren't CHOOSY? or are they too stupid to have good sense?

i think if you had a VAGINA you would rethink whether BLACK women are "too" CHOOSY are just smart enough to save themselves grief or rubbish.

wait. correct me if i'm wrong, but since you're black and the lot of you are hangin on the the GOD BLESSED 1 drop rule, any daughter you have (w/ a white or black lady) will be considered black. so everytime you say something bad about a black women you are saying it about your daughter. you are educating younger men about the way you think/feel and keeping the misconceptions alive. so really, you're making your daughters' bed. (follow me?) what a nice daddy ---> & she isnt even born yet!

[center]****right now someone is whispering about what an angry black women i am to their white girlfriend****

*******but i never said i was black*********

******************i laugh****************[/center]

@ Chinani

U seem to be very bitter about this issue. I was only voicing my opinion, if i'd start stating the reason for liking white girls i'l bet u'd snap at me again over that as well so i guess we should leave that alone for now. Besides i hav nothing against black women mind u.

black, white, yellow, purple, orange, brown, pink, green, whatever!
we're ALL beautiful

well hello champ, aren't you a delightful addition to NL
did you not read the rules?

@ jagwar

no, i am not bitter. i'm passionate. it is hard to distinguish one from the other when we are not face to face or on the phone. also, i like white girls too! & boys! what i dislike is liking someone b/c they are or are not a color. i'm not accusing you of this. i just wanted to clarify!

RANDOM FOOD FOR THOUGHT - A whole society as God created it can dissaper through interacial marriages.The black race can sieze to exist as God made it , becoming very, very light shades of black , with black feutures becoming diluted or dissapering.The white race can dissaper becoming a dark version of the original caucasian design by the almighty God.

Whole ethnic groups have virually vanished in Africa through inter tribal marriages.Its almost impossible to find pure fulanis - a new generic term has evolved for these people - "hausa-fulani" , this is because the fulani and hausa have intermarried so much that they are now one group .The implication is that its getting more difficult to find "pure fulani feutures"

A whole race of south american indians has vanished to be replaced by "mestizos" , mestizos are the product of white spanish and indian children in latin america. all of latin america is now "mestizo" - no more pure indians.

I know the idea of the whole blk or wht race dissapering into a large global cocktail of milky cream and cocoa brown is far fetched.

The truth is that , as long as different races and societies come into contact , they will gradually intermarry .SOME SOCIETIES OR RACES MAY BE MORE RESISTANT TO THIS GRADUALL MIXING THAN OTHERS , but history has proved that it is inevitable , it may simply be a slow or fast process - but inevitablelets look at examples of when different races have come in contact ; a\

Arabs and black africans - 70 % of sudan is mixed ( arab / blk african ) because both races intermingled a lot . A large portion of blk east africans have arab blood, because lots of arabs traded in slaves there and also settledthere as merchants till today.

Blk and caucasians - just look at afro america!!!!!!!! - about 50 % of afro america has white blood - a result of the contact that dates back to the slave trade era.Now the world is a global village , the economic problems of africa is forcing many blk africans to Europe and America for a better life - we there fore see an upsurge of interacial mixing with so many more blk africans entering the western nations.In parts on Nigeria , that have a lot of expartrate oil workers you would notice a high no of mixed blood kids - a result of a high number of white males in am enviroment filled with blk women.

indians and caucasians - latin american indians have vanished!!!!!!!!! - to be replaced by a mixed breed of indian/spanish called - mestizos. a result of white contact with south america.

caucasians and asians - u have a guess about the no of mixed children resulting from prolonged contact between whites and asians - check out vietnam and korea.The number of part asian , part white kids in the US is also in the increase - becos of increased asian immigration to the US

ALL AM SAYING IS HISTORY HAS PROVED THAT AS LONG AS DIFFERENT RACES HAVE CONTACT - THEY WILL MIX - IT MAY BE BY - EXPLOITATION , LOVE, LUST , CURIOUSTY (LUST), CONVINIENCE - BUT IT WILL ALWAYS HAPPEN . IT MAY BRING DISHARMONY , JEALOUSY , ANGER ,A GENERATION OF YOUTHS CONFUSED ABOUT THIER IDENTITY , PAIN , HAPPINES , - BUT IT WILL ALWAYS HAPPEN

What do you think of them & why?

itz kool and good if it is your thing period.

Great. It's a lot of fun. Am i glad i didn't get hooked before i left nigeria? Greatest turn on is the hair.

On a more serious note, be prepared to face more difficult challenges than u ever thot. The world is not yet flat!

interracial rel's , sexy

it's alright

It's good & bad. But all relationships are good & bad (requiring compromise) so that needn't scare anyone.

Why good?
a)[/b]It's always good to be true to yourself which incl. embracing who you're attracted to spiritually, physically, and emotionally.
[b]b)[/b]You have a larger dating pool (depending on location of course).
[b]c)[/b]It has the possibility to broaden your horizons.
[b]
Why bad?
[b]a)[/b]It can lead to the dilution of culture on a personal & societal level.
[b]b)[/b]It can lead to compromising yourself (esp. if you're a woman b/c women do this all the time) sha!
[b]c)[/b]Some people use their interracial relationship to perpetuate racist views.
[b]d)[/b]Interracial relations rarely (never) negate or erase racist views as advertised.
[b]e)[/b]When they do not work out, women are more likely to keep dating interracially b/c they are too embarrassed to "go back".
[b]f)[/b]Haters hate on you.

That's my abridged list. Cliffnotes of my personal thoughts: I would be in an interracial relationship but I'd be nervous about my (future) kids being in an interracial marriage. Hmmm. . .

But most of all, it's important essential to be true & honest to yourself.

chinani:

It's good & bad. But all relationships are good & bad (requiring compromise) so that needn't scare anyone.

Why good?
a)[/b]It's always good to be true to yourself which incl. embracing who you're attracted to spiritually, physically, and emotionally.

That should be the foremost thing on your mind

chinani:

[b]b)[/b]You have a larger dating pool (depending on location of course).

Is that relevant?

chinani:

[b]c)[/b]It has the possibility to broaden your horizons.

Also important. Depends on your personality though. If you're attracted to someone of a different race (I really hate that word), you probably already feel that need inside you.

chinani:

[b]
Why bad?
[b]a)[/b]It can lead to the dilution of culture on a personal & societal level.

Culture is neither static nor absolute. Depending on how deep you feel about your culture it could also have a positive effect on your awareness and lead to a deeper appreciation

chinani:

[b]b)[/b]It can lead to compromising yourself (esp. if you're a woman b/c women do this all the time) sha!

If that's your character, you will do the same thing in a same-race-relationship

chinani:

[b]c)[/b]Some people use their interracial relationship to perpetuate racist views.

That's one more type of abusive relationships. Not worth staying in, but the has very little to do with the interracial part if you're looking for a serious relationship

chinani:

[b]d)[/b]Interracial relations rarely (never) negate or erase racist views as advertised.

Are you entering a relationship to have a positive social impact or because you love your partner? This should be secundary.

chinani:

[b]e)[/b]When they do not work out, women are more likely to keep dating interracially b/c they are too embarrassed to "go back".

If that's the case, the woman's got other issues and is mentally not stable enough for a serious relationship.

chinani:

[b]f)[/b]Haters hate on you.

They always will, regardless of what you do.

chinani:

That's my abridged list. Cliffnotes of my personal thoughts: I would be in an interracial relationship but I'd be nervous about my (future) kids being in an interracial marriage. Hmmm. . .

No need to, as long as you bring them up with a healthy dose of self worth, their personality can only be the richer.

chinani:

But most of all, it's important essential to be true & honest to yourself.

True, but do you [i]really [/i]know yourself?

Word! Nferyn! Word!

Great analysis, I don't believe in all this "there are cultural differences" propaganda. true there are socio-cultural diff btw a e.g an white-black couple but truth is there is just the same divide btw an igbo- yoruba couple and a french-jewish couple.
I dated a white girl once and i could not note any significant difference betwn her and other nigerian girls, i would rather have her than the other girls in a minute.

I totally agree with you Nferyn.

nferyn:
Is that relevant?

Yes it is. Being a black female can feel like being a unicorn. That's the reality I've had to live w/ t/o some of my life. Personally, I've always been open to interracial relations but I have some friends who only considered it b/c black women out number black men in college by nearly 7 to 1. It's the reality of the situation.

nferyn:
Culture is neither static nor absolute. Depending on how deep you feel about your culture it could also have a positive effect on your awareness and lead to a deeper appreciation

Great point!

nferyn:
If that's your character, you will do the same thing in a same-race-relationship

Another point. (Nferyn 2, Chinani ) But really, that was part of my point. Interracial relationships are just like same "race" relationships. But, that's your point too, isn't it?

nferyn:
That's one more type of abusive relationships. Not worth staying in, but the has very little to do with the interracial part if you're looking for a serious relationship

Abusive? Hmm. . .That's not what I meant. Care to elaborate? I meant how ppl act towards others. As in how they perpetuate (racist) stereotypes in general not just to their partner. For instance, I was an RA for 3 yrs in college and one of my residents came to me very agitated. It seems her roomie's bf had said "See that's what I like about you. You're Latino. I can't date Black women. They're too bitchy." When I asked the roomie w/ the bf if her bf had said this while her black roomie was in the room she said "Yes" cool as a cucumber and was like "Lots of Black grrls are bitchy. My roomie's just the exception." (Nevermind that I'm "Black" too.) This is what I meant. And it's rampant. Just check out some of the threads on NL & you'll see. "How are Black women in Bed? Why?" "Why do Black women date such-and-such? Why?" All the negativity. It's enough to make me take a Paxil. _{But I don't.}

nferyn:
Are you entering a relationship to have a positive social impact or because you love your partner? This should be secundary.

You should be right Nferyn. I wish you were, but alas that is not the reality. The reality is that black ppl in the West are viewed as "Blacks" not as individuals. (I can't even get ppl to call me African.) The "reaction" to be viewed as part of a group is developing a "dual consciousness" as referred to and defined by W.E.B DuBois. Part of the dual consciousness is examining and seeing yourself as part as the whole (the Diaspora in manner of speaking). Should this point be primary? No. But I wouldn't believe a black person who claimed that they never examined how others would view their interracial relationship. Have you seen Jungle Fever? I'm not endorsing that movie, but the phases the black lead character goes through are real. Now, as for a white person I cannot say. White ppl are given more individuality & freedom in the West than Black ppl. (For instance, when a white man does something, good or bad, no one comments on his whiteness.)

Also, my fav professors always says, "The personal is political".

nferyn:
If that's the case, the woman's got other issues and is mentally not stable enough for a serious relationship.
They always will, regardless of what you do.

Why must the person be a woman? But really, it is women who are guilty of this. When I wrote this I was thinking of how ppl say "Once you go black, you never go back". I think sayings and tendencies like this are fueled by a need to "succeed" at a (difficult) relationship w/ another person. It's also an illusion to sex as though that's all a relationship is.

nferyn:
No need to, as long as you bring them up with a healthy dose of self worth, their personality can only be the richer.

Good to know. It's a nice thought. Heck, if I'm fixated on it, my kiddies will surely do it right? But really, I think this is my inner hypocrite & I wish to change. I just hate the thought of biting my tongue around in-laws. Surprise! I'm opinoinated!

nferyn:
True, but do you [i]really [/i]know yourself?

Yes! You can try.

@Nferyn
You took issue w/ some of my replies but I stand by most of them. I think they reflect reality.

@Everyone
HAHA! Nferyn picked my post to dissect. Yes, I know you are dying of jealousy. Eat your heart out Brooke Sheilds! j/k

Did y'all see the movie "something new"? it tried to deal with this issue. it is really a slippery slope.

@Eastcoast
I didn't see the movie. I'm gonna rent it though whenever. Was it a good movie? Whada'ya mean "slippery slope"?

yeah that movie is ok. As for the slippery slope, i meant that when you marry a person from another race, some other consequences follow ranging from the kids being picked upon, acceptance among others.

I'm into Asians although I'm yet to ask any girl out

from dating alone you cannot Tell.
I do not think everyone can deal with it.
A Nigerian Girl knows how to deal with a Nigerian Man from birth.
A white woman has to learn.
A Nigerian Woman will be able to deal better with a Arab tan a white woman would.
There is nothing life a different Man or Woman when it boils down to the main!!!! true color will come out.
At the end of the day its all about making compromises.
"Its not how a person deals with friends but how he deals with the enemy " my dad used to say.
me i always tell my kids don't marry one of these men were you will not know were to look for your kids in case he kidnap's them to his country.
To the women here if one of you marries an Arab and he runs away with your kids, were do you start looking.?
I Nigeria you will know the way to his village.

chinani:

Is that relevant?

Yes it is. Being a black female can feel like being a unicorn. That's the reality I've had to live w/ t/o some of my life. Personally, I've always been open to interracial relations but I have some friends who only considered it b/c black women out number black men in college by nearly 7 to 1. It's the reality of the situation.

Just a quick question in between: are you perceived as black or as African in first contacts? This could have a significant impact on your perception of the situation as well. I guess the reality of the African Americans reflects on you as well. It would be interesting to see what the difference is between the self-perception of Africans in the US versus Europe.

chinani:

Abusive? Hmm. . .That's not what I meant. Care to elaborate? I meant how people act towards others. As in how they perpetuate (racist) stereotypes in general not just to their partner. For instance, I was an RA for 3 years in college and one of my residents came to me very agitated. It seems her roomie's boyfriend had said "See that's what I like about you. You're Latino. I can't date Black women. They're too bitchy." When I asked the roomie w/ the boyfriend if her boyfriend had said this while her black roomie was in the room she said "Yes" cool as a cucumber and was like "Lots of Black grrls are bitchy. My roomie's just the exception." (Nevermind that I'm "Black" too.) This is what I meant. And it's rampant. Just check out some of the threads on Nairaland & you'll see. "How are Black women in Bed? Why?" "Why do Black women date such-and-such? Why?" All the negativity. It's enough to make me take a Paxil. _{But I don't.}

Unfortunately, stereotyping is part and parcel of the human experience. It is an evolutionary defense mechanism that's so hard wired in our brains that we will probably never get rid of it. One way to overcome this is awareness and exposure to the others in non-stereotypical situations.
It goes both ways though. The idiocy I've seen in the portrayal of Europe and Europeans by Nigerians, but also by African Americans, is mind boggling. What I find very interesting is the way African Americans sometimes stereotype Europeans and transpose white American cultural patterns to Europeans as if they are the same. From my limited exposure, I find African American culture, even though different from white American culture, distinctly American and I personally relate far more to African behavioral patterns than to American ones, but here the stereotyping probably sets in, no harm intended

chinani:

You should be right Nferyn. I wish you were, but alas that is not the reality. The reality is that black people in the West are viewed as "Blacks" not as individuals. (I can't even get people to call me African.)

I would think that the problem lies in the character of the partner here, but I guess that my personal experience and attitude is quite extra-ordinary. What I see as the main problem is that people have insufficient awareness of their own stereotypical behaviour. Ethnocentric attitudes and stereotyping are unavoidable, being aware of that and actively trying to correct yourself is what should be done. The worst racists are the ones loudly proclaiming that they cannot possibly be racist while their whole worldview is based one layer on top of layer of stereotypes.

chinani:

The "reaction" to be viewed as part of a group is developing a "dual consciousness" as referred to and defined by W.E.B DuBois. Part of the dual consciousness is examining and seeing yourself as part as the whole (the Diaspora in manner of speaking). Should this point be primary? No. But I wouldn't believe a black person who claimed that they never examined how others would view their interracial relationship. Have you seen Jungle Fever? I'm not endorsing that movie, but the phases the black lead character goes through are real. Now, as for a white person I cannot say. White people are given more individuality & freedom in the West than Black people. (For instance, when a white man does something, good or bad, no one comments on his whiteness.)

I agree, but that's not only only a racial issue. All minority (sub)cultures are subject to this. The thing is that skin colour is an extremely convenient marker in all types of pattern recognition and classification (which is what we do all day long). I know when I was at uni and I had long hair, I was constantly stopped by the police for identity controls. That stopped the moment I cut of my long hair.

chinani:

Also, my fav professors always says, "The personal is political".

That's very American of you

chinani:

Why must the person be a woman?

Because you were talking about women

chinani:

But really, it is women who are guilty of this. When I wrote this I was thinking of how people say "Once you go black, you never go back". I think sayings and tendencies like this are fueled by a need to "succeed" at a (difficult) relationship w/ another person. It's also an illusion to sex as though that's all a relationship is.

I don't see where that train of thought is leading you.

chinani:

Good to know. It's a nice thought. Heck, if I'm fixated on it, my kiddies will surely do it right? But really, I think this is my inner hypocrite & I wish to change. I just hate the thought of biting my tongue around in-laws. Surprise! I'm opinoinated!
Yes! You can try.

My inner hypocrite , I should remember that one
Why would you ever have to bite your tongue? It all depends on the packaging of the ideas. Allow me to interject a stereotype of my own - maybe Nigerians have a too direct way of trying to get a point accross , you people can be so harsh at times

chinani:

@Nferyn
You took issue w/ some of my replies but I stand by most of them. I think they reflect reality.

as you perceive it, why don't you take the blue pill? (just kidding)
By the way, I didn't take issue with them, I only thought some more context was appropriate and as I've been in an interracial relationship for more than 10 years now, I think I can provide some of that context.

chinani:

@Everyone
HAHA! Nferyn picked my post to dissect. Yes, I know you are dying of jealousy. Eat your heart out Brooke Sheilds! j/k

Chinani, your posts have always struck me as insightful and interesting to read. Quite different from the 15 word contributions one usually reads. I would be honoured to pick more of your posts apart, but most of the times there's little to pick apart (as in, I agree with them)

Kool but stressful.