LagosShia:

i am sure Iran doesnt hide its identity and no Shia is ashamed of being a Shia Muslim. however, to abandon Islam or the term "Muslim" to extremists,terrorists, and followers of the coup of Saqifah Banu Saeda is not going to happen. you can however do us a favor by following what you are advising. start feeling pride in your Sunni identity, and its Wahhabi/Salafist branch. the likes of tbaba ad Maclatunji should stop denying their Sunni identity. dont you feel ashamed when they deny Sunnism?

as usual the point being made is lost to you, pity! We are contented bearing the name Allah himself used in referring to those who follow Islam, muslin, the believers, while at the same time we are happy u clearly identify urself as a shia muslim (sectarian muslim). I leave u and the person that liked ur post with what Allah says about the true religion he has ordained for mankind, a religion he perfected during the life time of Muhammad pbuh; Sahih International: Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired o[defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. Qur'an 5:3 While u continue to practice shia - Islam we continue to practice Islam that Allah Himself perfected and continue to invite u to the religion of the people of paradise!

vedaxcool: as usual the point being made is lost to you, pity! We are contented bearing the name Allah himself used in referring to those who follow Islam, muslin, the believers, while at the same time we are happy u clearly identify urself as a shia muslim (sectarian muslim). I leave u and the person that liked ur post with what Allah says about the true religion he has ordained for mankind, a religion he perfected during the life time of Muhammad pbuh; Sahih International: Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired o[defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. Qur'an 5:3 While u continue to practice shia - Islam we continue to practice Islam that Allah Himself perfected and continue to invite u to the religion of the people of paradise!

you need to read the Quran well and with fuller and complete understanding. Ibrahim (as) is called in the Quran "Shia of Noah". does that stop Prophet Ibrahim (as)-whom the Quran states is the "first Muslim"-from still being "Muslim"? does being the Shia of Ali (as), who is the first Imam of the ummah of Muhammad (sa), negate the fact that our religion is the one Allah (swt) perfected and completed and which is called Islam? all we are saying is the word "Shia" or being the "Shia of Ali" is part and parcel of the religion of Islam. if it was "sectarian" or going out of the religion, the Prophet (sa) wouldnt have used that word himself to describe the associates/partisans/loyalists of Imam Ali (as). the same Imam Ali (as) whom the Prophet (sa) said: the truth is with Ali (as) and Ali (as) is with the truth. he (sa) also said: if you want to know where the truth lies, you should know where Imam Ali's (as) position is.

it is of great relief that you are content with the name Allah (swt) has given us, and by implication you have made it clear that Allah (swt) didnt call you "Sunni" nor did the Prophet (sa). so where did you guys get that bid'ah for a name from? it has been discussed before:

Why It Is Bid'ah, Forbidden And Sinful To Be "Sunni"
https://www.nairaland.com/1001212/why-it-bidah-forbidden-sinful

vedaxcool: While u continue to practice shia - Islam we continue to practice Islam that Allah Himself perfected and continue to invite u to the religion of the people of paradise!

Please vedaxcool for once let's dialogue reasonably and stop childish act and propaganda. Qur'an calls for "dialogue with wisdom and good manners; and argument with solid clear evidence intellectually based".

Pardon my ignorance! Which "IsLaM" are you talking about please? That of Muhammad or Umar and co?

Some of what I can see is:

1. The prophet (saws) forbade Tarawih in Jama'a while Umar sanctioned it in Jama'a

2. The prophet (saws) never instructed Bilal "As-Salatu khair mina nawm" while Umar ordered it to be added in adhan

3. Bilal used to say "Haya ala khair amal" in adhan as instructed by the holy prophet (saws) while Umar erased it

4. Prophet (saws) never wipe his ears in wudhu (Qur'an says your head AND feet; while Uthman introduced ear's wiping.

5. Prophet (saws) said he left "book of God and his ahl al-bayt"; Umar said he (saws)'s talking nonsense (yahjur) and that "book of God is enough" while your Ulama advocate "Book of God and sunnah"

6. While the prophet (saws) never mentioned Abu Bakar, Umar and Uthman as "khulafau Rashidun" or said they will be 4, your creed said they were 4 and even ranked them in that order. 12 successors is what we found in your esteem collections of hadith.

These are just tips of the ice-berg!

Kindly provide intellectual explanation to all these

The Shia-Sunni rivalry continues 1400 years later. Passing by and observing

Al-Baqir:


Please vedaxcool for once let's dialogue reasonably and stop childish act and propaganda. Qur'an calls for "dialogue with wisdom and good manners; and argument with solid clear evidence intellectually based".

Pardon my ignorance! Which "IsLaM" are you talking about please? That of Muhammad or Umar and co?

Some of what I can see is:

1. The prophet (saws) forbade Tarawih in Jama'a while Umar sanctioned it in Jama'a

2. The prophet (saws) never instructed Bilal "As-Salatu khair mina nawm" while Umar ordered it to be added in adhan

3. Bilal used to say "Haya ala khair amal" in adhan as instructed by the holy prophet (saws) while Umar erased it

4. Prophet (saws) never wipe his ears in wudhu (Qur'an says your head AND feet; while Uthman introduced ear's wiping.

5. Prophet (saws) said he left "book of God and his ahl al-bayt"; Umar said he (saws)'s talking nonsense (yahjur) and that "book of God is enough" while your Ulama advocate "Book of God and sunnah"

6. While the prophet (saws) never mentioned Abu Bakar, Umar and Uthman as "khulafau Rashidun" or said they will be 4, your creed said they were 4 and even ranked them in that order. 12 successors is what we found in your esteem collections of hadith.

These are just tips of the ice-berg!

Kindly provide intellectual explanation to all these

Were these changes had in Hadiths or were they added to the Quran after-ward?

for the clowns who say Maliki is "oppressing Sunnis", and they refer to ISIS terrorists as "Sunni rebels", your beloved terrorists of ISIS are the ones oppressing Sunnis.

It's not just Sufis, it's not just Shias. It's not just Christians or Alawites. Sunni Mufti says 300 Sunni preachers and imams were slaughtered by ISIS in Iraq.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvNupoSw_u8

Sheikh Musa Cerantonio, the presenter of the popular tv programmed 'ask the Sheikh' on Iqraa tv has just confirmed he has arrived at the Islamic State. He confirmed it on twitter. I think he gave his pledge of allegiance to the Caliph some days ago. The popular Sheikh Faisal too has given his pledge of allegiance.
I started this thread, not to be the usual sunni-shia wahala of a thing but to seek everyones honest opinions. I asked some questions like 'would you give bayah (yes or no with reason(s)), do you think it will last, do you think its really worth the media attention, is this Baghdady suitable as a Caliph? Pls lets give our honest and independent opinions. Bro Tbaba, i've not really known your personal position on this, will you endeavour to be direct?

The Caliph has called for Hijrah by professionals to the Dawlah. Do you think thats a legitimate call to heed?
My own personal position is that i am not ready to accept a Caliph that has no answer to the palestinian issue. Let this Caliph prove his merits in palestine first, not Iraq or Syria.

kazlaw2000:

Salam alaykum dear brother. Ramadhan Mubarak. May Allah accept our fasting, salat and qiyam as acts of ibadaat though we know they are marred with different forms of motivations other than Allah.

kazlaw2000: Sheikh Musa Cerantonio, the presenter of the popular tv programmed 'ask the Sheikh' on Iqraa tv has just confirmed he has arrived at the Islamic State. He confirmed it on twitter. I think he gave his pledge of allegiance to the Caliph some days ago. The popular Sheikh Faisal too has given his pledge of allegiance.

The truth is Muslims generally need a true leader, liberator, and spiritual confidant. Muslim world need governance amidst oppressions and injustice that faced muslim world. After the demise of the holy prophet (saws), at every age in time, it is no more news that different personalities had assumed the seat of caliphacy; legitimate or usurped; just or tyrant.

Ironically, muslims pay bay'a irrespective of the personality of the caliph. Example in history was Ibn Umar, whom by all standard, far better in everything than Yazeed ibn Mu'awiyyah. He still went ahead to give the cursed, the damned Yazeed his bay'a. So it is not surprising that the said sheik paid his allegiance to the said "caliph baghdady".

kazlaw2000:
I started this thread, not to be the usual sunni-shia wahala of a thing but to seek everyones honest opinions. I asked some questions like 'would you give bayah (yes or no with reason(s)), do you think it will last, do you think its really worth the media attention, is this Baghdady suitable as a Caliph? Pls lets give our honest and independent opinions.

I want to believe whoever masterminded the ISIS, their goal is to create a real war between Sunni and Shi'a; and what better time can be use than the time of the present Iraqi PM who happened to be a Shi'a. And what better location to start this than the crisis, war-torned Iraq. Thank God, many Iraqi Sunni sheiks and muslims do not see this as Sunni-Shi'a fight.

Likewise on NL. It is disheartened the way non-shi'a muslims usually react to anything from Iraq, Iran, Lebanon and different Shi'a dominated area. People usually combine politics/social differences with religious differences.

The OP is clear but some choose to deviate; and the issue I firmly believe is a political, socio-cultural problem far from religious differences but emotions were let loose on this thread. Mostly, for example, if I attack Saudi-arabia, my focus and intention is on their non-islamic monarchy form of government.

I just don't understand people stylishly giving support to ISIS who kill, destroyed for fun all because they claimed to represent "Sunni". And the justification of PM al-Maliki being oppressive to the sunni etc is senseless. If many scholars from the past till date can adopted excuses for Yazeed for killing Imam Hussain thereby accommodate both on the same ship, then the justification for the ISIS is not surprising.

The so-called caliphacy being established by baghidady can never last for many reasons - religious, political, socio-cultural etc.

kazlaw2000:
The Caliph has called for Hijrah by professionals to the Dawlah. Bro al Baqir, as a chemist, are you planning to go? lol.

My allegiance (bay'a) and covenant (A'had) which I renew every morning is solely for the "Imam of the age and time (imam sahibul Asr wa zaman)" and that is al-Mahdi (as).

"Whoever dies without recognizing the imam of his time (imam zaman), dies the death of the age of ignorance (jahili)" ~Holy prophet (saws).

Apart from the hadith related by Bukhari and others which firmly established 12 Khalifa to Succeed the holy prophet (saws) spread across every age from the moment of the prophet's demise till the end of days, what is also crystal clear is the hadith of al-Mahdi (as) being the Imam of the last time. Therefore, the so-called caliph baghydady has no bay'a obligation from Al-baqir.

The personality of the 12 successors, and al-Mahdi is still a mystery to some thereby sweep the hadith under the carpet. If muslims can find solutions to these hadith, then our problem is completely solved.

If not, even when al-Mahdi comes, he will be rejected by those who knew not his personality. Little wonder why many over the years claimed to be Mahdi (as).

kazlaw2000:
Lastly, for your info. My own personal position is that i am not ready to accept a Caliph that has no answer to the palestinian issue. Let this Caliph prove his merits in palestine first, not Iraq or Syria.

I share your view. What is clear in the hadith of the prophet (saws) on al-Mahdi is the fact that he (as)will fill the earth with justice as it is being filled with injustice and oppression.

Wa salam alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh.

kazlaw2000: Sheikh Musa Cerantonio, the presenter of the popular tv programmed 'ask the Sheikh' on Iqraa tv has just confirmed he has arrived at the Islamic State. He confirmed it on twitter. I think he gave his pledge of allegiance to the Caliph some days ago. The popular Sheikh Faisal too has given his pledge of allegiance.
I started this thread, not to be the usual sunni-shia wahala of a thing but to seek everyones honest opinions. I asked some questions like 'would you give bayah (yes or no with reason(s)), do you think it will last, do you think its really worth the media attention, is this Baghdady suitable as a Caliph? Pls lets give our honest and independent opinions. Bro Tbaba, i've not really known your personal position on this, will you endeavour to be direct?

The Caliph has called for Hijrah by professionals to the Dawlah. Do you think thats a legitimate call to heed?
My own personal position is that i am not ready to accept a Caliph that has no answer to the palestinian issue. Let this Caliph prove his merits in palestine first, not Iraq or Syria.

Salam,

Cerantanio is known to support extreme groups, I am not surprised by his endorsement. That is a non-issue. My views have been articulated in my previous posts

ISIS has no legitimacy. Who is Baghdadi? Shouldn't the people and scholars know you before giving bayaa..Most of the other groups fighting do not even recognise this Islamic State. The Iraqi government is at fault for oppressing people and forcing what is essentially a Sunni uprising, unfortunately, the ISIS group takes attention away from that.

Their unislamic fighting practises is already against Islamic law.

Calling people to go there is like calling enthusiastic muslims to go there and wait to be bombed, when the west decides to intervene. They can't protect themselves.

A caliph or an Imam must be someone that all Muslims unite on and accept.

Excellent. This is the purpose of the thread.
pls lets follow this format. Ba'yah, yes or no, then reasons.
Bros al Baqir and tbaba, jazaakallaahu khairaa for your time

kennyosein: Iraqi Shia leader Ayatollah Mahmoud Al-Hassani Al-Sarkhi has declared his support for the Sunni uprising in Iraq, stating they have been “oppressed”.
Ayatollah Al-Sarkhi, who opposes Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki as well as Iran, said that he had warned of this revolution several years ago.
He insisted that this is a “revolution of pure Iraqi Sunnis”, not foreigners, referring to ISIS. He described the call by Al-Sistani to fight the rebels a “satanic fatwa leading to bloodshed”.
The cleric called for the Sunni rebels not to take a sectarian pathway for their revolution and to be inclusive for all “the oppressed people”. Comparing the Sunni community with the Shias, he said: “Like us, they have tribes, symbols, dignity, in addition to persistence.”
About the Iraqi army, he said that the Iraqi soldiers were brought up on sectarian bases, “not love of their country, nationality and conscience”. Most of them joined the army for the sake of the salary, he explained.
Al-Sarkhi called on the corrupt rulers to leave their positions and make room for those who deserve to rule on the basis of justice among people and citizens regardless to their sects. He predicted that the “worst” is yet to come.
Al Sarkhi is considered one of Iraq’s most radical Shia clerics. Formerly a member of Saddam Hussein’s army, some doubt his scholarly credentials and he is not thought to have a significant following by his opposition.
In June 2006, his followers attacked the Iranian consulate in Basra and tore down its flag in protest over criticism of their leader broadcast on Iranian television.
And in April 2012, his followers were involved in clashes with supporters of Grand Ayatollah Ali al Sistani.
On July 3, 2014 Iraqi police and armed forces attempted to arrest al-Sharkhi in Karbala, leading to clashes between his supporters and government forces that killed 45 people.
www.5pillarz.com/2014/07/04/iraqi-shia-cleric-declares-support-for-sunni-uprising/

there are still some honest shiites unlike the 2 fasiqs whose calling seem to be barefaced dishonesty!

LagosShia:

you need to read the Quran well and with fuller and complete understanding. Ibrahim (as) is called in the Quran "Shia of Noah". does that stop Prophet Ibrahim (as)-whom the Quran states is the "first Muslim"-from still being "Muslim"? does being the Shia of Ali (as), who is the first Imam of the ummah of Muhammad (sa), negate the fact that our religion is the one Allah (swt) perfected and completed and which is called Islam? all we are saying is the word "Shia" or being the "Shia of Ali" is part and parcel of the religion of Islam. if it was "sectarian" or going out of the religion, the Prophet (sa) wouldnt have used that word himself to describe the associates/partisans/loyalists of Imam Ali (as). the same Imam Ali (as) whom the Prophet (sa) said: the truth is with Ali (as) and Ali (as) is with the truth. he (sa) also said: if you want to know where the truth lies, you should know where Imam Ali's (as) position is.

it is of great relief that you are content with the name Allah (swt) has given us, and by implication you have made it clear that Allah (swt) didnt call you "Sunni" nor did the Prophet (sa). so where did you guys get that bid'ah for a name from? it has been discussed before:

Why It Is Bid'ah, Forbidden And Sinful To Be "Sunni"
https://www.nairaland.com/1001212/why-it-bidah-forbidden-sinful

after all your noise making u are yet to demonstrate how the word Islam turned to shia islam, like I said it is a free world to you your religion(shia islam) to me my religion (Islam)

Al-Baqir:

[s]
Please vedaxcool for once let's dialogue reasonably and stop childish act and propaganda. Qur'an calls for "dialogue with wisdom and good manners; and argument with solid clear evidence intellectually based".

Pardon my ignorance! Which "IsLaM" are you talking about please? That of Muhammad or Umar and co?

Some of what I can see is:

1. The prophet (saws) forbade Tarawih in Jama'a while Umar sanctioned it in Jama'a

2. The prophet (saws) never instructed Bilal "As-Salatu khair mina nawm" while Umar ordered it to be added in adhan

3. Bilal used to say "Haya ala khair amal" in adhan as instructed by the holy prophet (saws) while Umar erased it

4. Prophet (saws) never wipe his ears in wudhu (Qur'an says your head AND feet; while Uthman introduced ear's wiping.

5. Prophet (saws) said he left "book of God and his ahl al-bayt"; Umar said he (saws)'s talking nonsense (yahjur) and that "book of God is enough" while your Ulama advocate "Book of God and sunnah"

6. While the prophet (saws) never mentioned Abu Bakar, Umar and Uthman as "khulafau Rashidun" or said they will be 4, your creed said they were 4 and even ranked them in that order. 12 successors is what we found in your esteem collections of hadith.

These are just tips of the ice-berg!

Kindly provide intellectual explanation to all these [/s]

one absurdity after another, culminating in a bigger absurdity, a counterfeit demanding proof of originality for the original! Whenever u are through with your infantile propaganda, do remember nowhere in the Qur'an did Allah use the term shia islam, rather he perfected al Islam as his favour upon humanity! There is only Islam, not which type of Islam, any other counterfeit is just that a counterfeit to which Ali r.a warned his followers to stay clear of and remain with the majority of Muslim!

kazlaw2000: Sheikh Musa Cerantonio, the presenter of the popular tv programmed 'ask the Sheikh' on Iqraa tv has just confirmed he has arrived at the Islamic State. He confirmed it on twitter. I think he gave his pledge of allegiance to the Caliph some days ago. The popular Sheikh Faisal too has given his pledge of allegiance.
I started this thread, not to be the usual sunni-shia wahala of a thing but to seek everyones honest opinions. I asked some questions like 'would you give bayah (yes or no with reason(s)), do you think it will last, do you think its really worth the media attention, is this Baghdady suitable as a Caliph? Pls lets give our honest and independent opinions. Bro Tbaba, i've not really known your personal position on this, will you endeavour to be direct?

The Caliph has called for Hijrah by professionals to the Dawlah. Do you think thats a legitimate call to heed?
My own personal position is that i am not ready to accept a Caliph that has no answer to the palestinian issue. Let this Caliph prove his merits in palestine first, not Iraq or Syria.

I would not pledge any allegiance to such a group even with a gun pointed at my head, they remain largely a composition of criminal and terrorist elements! As a terror group they have made one of the biggest mistakes any terror group can make, that is, holding unto such a large swathe of territory. ISIS have no answer to Syria civil war because their strategy has been to fight other rebel groups rather than the government this has resulted to weakening the rebels! In palestein what can they do? Unless they want a certain animal in Israel to drop a nuke on their heads! Without consulting the sunnis in Iraq they forcefully cobbled up a state, after a while the people in the region being occupied by ISIS will rebel just like the Syrians who rebel against ISIS forcing other rebel groups to fight them I read in al jazeera that a certain tribe in tirkit if I remember right have started mobilising an army of their youths to fight ISIS who have resorted to ceasing properties of local shieks ! Eventually ISIS would get kicked in the mouth, as by its pronouncement managed to mobilise a motely of enemies within the region, starting from all the gulf states, . . ., in fact all ME states would rather join forces and fight ISIL than tolerate such a group that have nullified their very existence by its pronouncement! Thaba's point on the matter is spot on, without consulting anybody ISIL simply failed to meet basic requirements for a caliphate, and their wrapped logic that assumes they can force their interpretation of Islam on everybody is doomed to fail! And yes who is badadgandi or whatever?

vedaxcool: I would not pledge any allegiance to such a group even with a gun pointed at my head, they remain largely a composition of criminal and terrorist elements! As a terror group they have made one of the biggest mistakes any terror group can make, that is, holding unto such a large swathe of territory. ISIS have no answer to Syria civil war because their strategy has been to fight other rebel groups rather than the government this has resulted to weakening the rebels! In palestein what can they do? Unless they want a certain animal in Israel to drop a nuke on their heads! Without consulting the sunnis in Iraq they forcefully cobbled up a state, after a while the people in the region being occupied by ISIS will rebel just like the Syrians who rebel against ISIS forcing other rebel groups to fight them I read in al jazeera that a certain tribe in tirkit if I remember right have started mobilising an army of their youths to fight ISIS who have resorted to ceasing properties of local shieks ! Eventually ISIS would get kicked in the mouth, as by its pronouncement managed to mobilise a motely of enemies within the region, starting from all the gulf states, . . ., in fact all ME states would rather join forces and fight ISIL than tolerate such a group that have nullified their very existence by its pronouncement! Thaba's point on the matter is spot on, without consulting anybody ISIL simply failed to meet basic requirements for a caliphate, and their wrapped logic that assumes they can force their interpretation of Islam on everybody is doomed to fail! And yes who is badadgandi or whatever?

vedaxcool: there are still some honest shiites unlike the 2 fasiqs whose calling seem to be barefaced dishonesty!

can you be consistent just for a second and disregard the hatred and bigotry against Shia that is engulfing your soul?

this so called "Shia cleric" is said to be a former soldier in Saddam's army. his "scholarly credentials" are in doubt. furthermore, he is said to be backed/financed by the Qatari and Saudi intelligence agencies who are also said to be behind ISIS. he who pays the piper dictates the tune. your consistency is called into question because this so called cleric has given allegiance to Baghdadi, the Sunni caliph. this is so unimaginable for a Shia to willingly and wholeheartedly give allegiance to a Sunni tyrant. and going by your post, you dont mind supporting ISIS, and you oppose them simply because they have disagreed with other mainstream alqaeda factions in syria. this same ISIS you described as a terror group has been recognized by the so called cleric. the same ISIS that you mentioned that Sunni tribes in Tikrit have taken arms against it alongside the Iraqi army headed by Maliki. the news is that Tikrit has come under fulll government control today as the Iraqi army has flushed out ISIS. and funny enough, tbaba also went on to parrot that Maliki has "oppressed" the Sunnis. i just want tbaba to tell us how has Maliki "oppressed" less than 20% of the population who are Sunni Arabs? the Kurds are Sunnis too, but they havent claimed to be "oppressed" by Maliki. Maliki is just a charade that the Sunnis are using to make their claim of oppression. if maliki goes today, they will still continue agitating and getting support from rogue zionist puppets that are ruling sunni arab states-namely qatar and saudi arabia. the suicide bombings and car explosions targeting Shia pilgrims, mosques, holy places and areas didnt start with Maliki coming to power. it started way before. the holy shrine of the two Imams in Samarra was targeted in 2006 and that saw reprisal attacks on sunnis which would have proved devastating for Sunnis if Ayatollah Sistani didnt rescue them with his fatwa restraining the Shia. even Sunni tribes that are not associated with these alqaeda elements claiming to be ushering a "sunni revolution" are tired with the nonsense. they are taking up arms to flush them out. the Shia majority in Iraq has long swallowed its pride and kept its cool.

vedaxcool: one absurdity after another, culminating in a bigger absurdity, a counterfeit demanding proof of originality for the original! Whenever u are through with your infantile propaganda, do remember nowhere in the Qur'an did Allah use the term shia islam, rather he perfected al Islam as his favour upon humanity! There is only Islam, not which type of Islam, any other counterfeit is just that a counterfeit to which Ali r.a warned his followers to stay clear of and remain with the majority of Muslim!

who are the "majority"? you mean, with your filthy hatred and prejudices and bigotry, you are just a Muslim? really? so you mean Imam Ali (as) told us Shias-who you evidently describe as his followers-to stay with the "majority of Muslims" who apparently and as evident in your wordings are not part of the "minority followers of Imam Ali (as) "? are you for real or you are just confused? yes, Imam Ali (as) as the rest of our Imams from his descendants did advice us to have close ties with other Muslims;but of course not at the expense of the truth or Islamic beliefs you have abandoned. we can still be close and join hands even as we accept our differences. we can agree to differ. look at how many sects are there in christianity, but they dont chop off their heads. we are only 2 main branches of Islam, and look at how Sunnis have oppressed the Shia for centuries. even having a Shia to lead a Shia majority country is like a skin disease for Sunnis. forget about wahhabis/salafists. i am talking of Sunnis generally and as a whole. your domineering attitude is un-Islamic. this isnt the tolerance and respect Islam proclaims.

tbaba1234:

Salam,

Cerantanio is known to support extreme groups, I am not surprised by his endorsement. That is a non-issue. My views have been articulated in my previous posts

ISIS has no legitimacy. Who is Baghdadi? Shouldn't the people and scholars know you before giving bayaa..Most of the other groups fighting do not even recognise this Islamic State. The Iraqi government is at fault for oppressing people and forcing what is essentially a Sunni uprising, unfortunately, the ISIS group takes attention away from that.

Their unislamic fighting practises is already against Islamic law.

Calling people to go there is like calling enthusiastic muslims to go there and wait to be bombed, when the west decides to intervene. They can't protect themselves.

A caliph or an Imam must be someone that all Muslims unite on and accept.

explain to us how the iraqi government has oppressed sunnis. and which uprising are you talking about? an uprising by a terror group (ISIS) that even Sunnis are taking up arms to quell? or is it the suicide bombings targeting Shias civilians, marketplaces, holy places, mosques, etc. since 2003? please enlighten us.

please also compare the standard of life and government representation of the 25% Sunni minority in Iraq to that of the 25% Shia minority in Saudi Arabia. tell us who is really oppressed and what is oppression in your dictionary. or does oppression in the wahhabi dictionary means when a Shia is leading a country with a Sunni minority/presence?

m.aljazeera.com/se/20147512574517772 kazlaw2000 according to the link above many prominent scholars, like Qawadari has condemned ISIL declaration of a caliphate.

"Abu Bakr al Baghdadi calls people to pledge allegiance to him.

I don't approve of the first Abu Bakr, you want me to approve of you?"

- @Tawhidicom (Twitter)

LagosShia:



can you be consistent just for a second and disregard the hatred and bigotry against Shia that is engulfing your soul?

this so called "Shia cleric" is said to be a former soldier in Saddam's army. his "scholarly credentials" are in doubt. furthermore, he is said to be backed/financed by the Qatari and Saudi intelligence agencies who are also said to be behind ISIS. he who pays the piper dictates the tune. your consistency is called into question because this so called cleric has given allegiance to Baghdadi, the Sunni caliph. this is so unimaginable for a Shia to willingly and wholeheartedly give allegiance to a Sunni tyrant. and going by your post, you dont mind supporting ISIS, and you oppose them simply because they have disagreed with other mainstream alqaeda factions in syria. this same ISIS you described as a terror group has been recognized by the so called cleric. the same ISIS that you mentioned that Sunni tribes in Tikrit have taken arms against it alongside the Iraqi army headed by Maliki. the news is that Tikrit has come under fulll government control today as the Iraqi army has flushed out ISIS. and funny enough, tbaba also went on to parrot that Maliki has "oppressed" the Sunnis. i just want tbaba to tell us how has Maliki "oppressed" less than 20% of the population who are Sunni Arabs? the Kurds are Sunnis too, but they havent claimed to be "oppressed" by Maliki. Maliki is just a charade that the Sunnis are using to make their claim of oppression. if maliki goes today, they will still continue agitating and getting support from rogue zionist puppets that are ruling sunni arab states-namely qatar and saudi arabia. the suicide bombings and car explosions targeting Shia pilgrims, mosques, holy places and areas didnt start with Maliki coming to power. it started way before. the holy shrine of the two Imams in Samarra was targeted in 2006 and that saw reprisal attacks on sunnis which would have proved devastating for Sunnis if Ayatollah Sistani didnt rescue them with his fatwa restraining the Shia. even Sunni tribes that are not associated with these alqaeda elements claiming to be ushering a "sunni revolution" are tired with the nonsense. they are taking up arms to flush them out. the Shia majority in Iraq has long swallowed its pride and kept its cool.

lol a bad response is better than non, u must really want to strangle this shia cleric for standing for the truth when people like u prefer dancing to sectarian tunes! The cleric didn't pledge his allegiance to ISIL and unlike u he does nt believe in blindly supporting the tyrant leading iran. It is funny that other shia are trying to oust Maliki as pm because of his sectarianism/marginalisation of sunnis and ineptitude yet in your sectarian bubble and deep seated hatred for muslims who do tow ur line of sectarian garbage! So u mean to say shias are 80% of Iraq? Wow u r such a liar indeed, like I said it is. Unconscionable to argue with one that is so dishonest like u! A child would know that ur alledge 80% can easily marginalize "20%" just as 4 persons in a group of 5 can decide to marginalise 1 persons in that group! Truly work on this ur dishonesty issues during this ramadan! The kurd are not complaining about marginalisation yet they want to leave Iraq very soon! Lol u are clearly are out of ur depth on this one, better u deal with topics u r an expert in, like posting garbage about sunnis, rather than make pseudo-intelligent remarks in this thread!

vedaxcool: m.aljazeera.com/se/20147512574517772 kazlaw2000 according to the link above many prominent scholars, like Qawadari has condemned ISIL declaration of a caliphate.

Yeah, i just saw it today that Qaradawi declared the declaration null and void.
For those interested, the 'caliph' led jumuah prayers at the Mosul grand mosque yesterday. The video is now on youtube. I cant post the link with this phone. sorry

vedaxcool: lol a bad response is better than non, u must really want to strangle this shia cleric for standing for the truth when people like u prefer dancing to sectarian tunes! The cleric didn't pledge his allegiance to ISIL and unlike u he does nt believe in blindly supporting the tyrant leading iran. It is funny that other shia are trying to oust Maliki as pm because of his sectarianism/marginalisation of sunnis and ineptitude yet in your sectarian bubble and deep seated hatred for muslims who do tow ur line of sectarian garbage! So u mean to say shias are 80% of Iraq? Wow u r such a liar indeed, like I said it is. Unconscionable to argue with one that is so dishonest like u! A child would know that ur alledge 80% can easily marginalize "20%" just as 4 persons in a group of 5 can decide to marginalise 1 persons in that group! Truly work on this ur dishonesty issues during this ramadan! The kurd are not complaining about marginalisation yet they want to leave Iraq very soon! Lol u are clearly are out of ur depth on this one, better u deal with topics u r an expert in, like posting garbage about sunnis, rather than make pseudo-intelligent remarks in this thread!

i didnt say Shia are 80% in Iraq. i said Sunni Arabs are barely 20%. and you have the Kurds who are mostly Sunnis who make up about 15-20%. the Shia in Iraq are about 65-75%. let us say 60%, or i dash you 55%. they are a majority.

Kurds havent started campaigning to leave Iraq when Maliki came to power. Kurds in the four countries they are found in have been campaigning for independence for decades. Saddam, your Sunni hero, gassed them in halabja. Turkey has arrested Abdullah Ocalan, the Kurds separatist leader in turkey. so you are either uninformed, or you are informed and you are dribbling the facts to mislead others and make your point that all the problems in Iraq, and may be in the world, exist because of Iraq having Maliki as its PM. Arab Sunnis have taken things personal while their main issue is sectarian. when Maliki steps down or is not re-elected as PM, a more conservative Shia would replace him. the media is already hinting at Ahmed Chalabi. meanwhile, i await your responses to inform me how Maliki has "oppressed" and "marginalized" Sunnis in a country where the head of state is a Kurdish Sunni and the parliament speaker is an Arab Sunni, with proportional representation to their population (i.e. about 30% seats) in parliament.

LagosShia:

i didnt say Shia are 80% in Iraq. i said Sunni Arabs are barely 20%. and you have the Kurds who are mostly Sunnis who make up about 15-20%. the Shia in Iraq are about 65-75%. let us say 60%, or i dash you 55%. they are a majority.

Kurds havent started campaigning to leave Iraq when Maliki came to power. Kurds in the four countries they are found in have been campaigning for independence for decades. Saddam, your Sunni hero, gassed them in halabja. Turkey has arrested Abdullah Ocalan, the Kurds separatist leader in turkey. so you are either uninformed, or you are informed and you are dribbling the facts to mislead others and make your point that all the problems in Iraq, and may be in the world, exist because of Iraq having Maliki as its PM. Arab Sunnis have taken things personal while their main issue is sectarian. when Maliki steps down or is not re-elected as PM, a more conservative Shia would replace him. the media is already hinting at Ahmed Chalabi. meanwhile, i await your responses to inform me how Maliki has "oppressed" and "marginalized" Sunnis in a country where the head of state is a Kurdish Sunni and the parliament speaker is an Arab Sunni, with proportional representation to their population (i.e. about 30% seats) in parliament.

Dear brother, what interest do you really have replying every so-called comments of this guy vedaxcool? The guy has chosen to be an antagonist, a fanatic who only see what he wished to see. You've made this analysis several times so you don't need to repeat to his deaf ears.

Please note: if he or people like him chose not to reason based on available facts provided, know that tens of hundreds of thousands of viewers who read threads read both sides of the argument/presentations.

Salam.

LagosShia:

[s]who are the "majority"? you mean, with your filthy hatred and prejudices and bigotry, you are just a Muslim? really? so you mean Imam Ali (as) told us Shias-who you evidently describe as his followers-to stay with the "majority of Muslims" who apparently and as evident in your wordings are not part of the "minority followers of Imam Ali (as) "? are you for real or you are just confused? yes, Imam Ali (as) as the rest of our Imams from his descendants did advice us to have close ties with other Muslims;but of course not at the expense of the truth or Islamic beliefs you have abandoned. we can still be close and join hands even as we accept our differences. we can agree to differ. look at how many sects are there in christianity, but they dont chop off their heads. we are only 2 main branches of Islam, and look at how Sunnis have oppressed the Shia for centuries. even having a Shia to lead a Shia majority country is like a skin disease for Sunnis. forget about wahhabis/salafists. i am talking of Sunnis generally and as a whole. your domineering attitude is un-Islamic. this isnt the tolerance and respect Islam proclaim[/s]s.

balderdash!! There is only one Islam, no branches no sects, just One Islam and that is where I stand!

LagosShia:

i didnt say Shia are 80% in Iraq. i said Sunni Arabs are barely 20%. and you have the Kurds who are mostly Sunnis who make up about 15-20%. the Shia in Iraq are about 65-75%. let us say 60%, or i dash you 55%. they are a majority.

Kurds havent started campaigning to leave Iraq when Maliki came to power. Kurds in the four countries they are found in have been campaigning for independence for decades. Saddam, your Sunni hero, gassed them in halabja. Turkey has arrested Abdullah Ocalan, the Kurds separatist leader in turkey. so you are either uninformed, or you are informed and you are dribbling the facts to mislead others and make your point that all the problems in Iraq, and may be in the world, exist because of Iraq having Maliki as its PM. Arab Sunnis have taken things personal while their main issue is sectarian. when Maliki steps down or is not re-elected as PM, a more conservative Shia would replace him. the media is already hinting at Ahmed Chalabi. meanwhile, i await your responses to inform me how Maliki has "oppressed" and "marginalized" Sunnis in a country where the head of state is a Kurdish Sunni and the parliament speaker is an Arab Sunni, with proportional representation to their population (i.e. about 30% seats) in parliament.

Like i advised you earlier, stick to parroting your sectarian garbage, as clearly you have very minimal knowledge on politics and governance. Do you what it means to be marginalized? So you mean to say kurds have all this while been discontented with Iraq? But we thought you said only sunnis where unhappy?

Sunnis and Kurds walked out of parliament's first session on Tuesday, complaining that Shi'ites had failed to nominate a prime minister; they see Maliki as the main obstacle to resolving the crisis and hope he will step aside.
http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKBN0F631J20140702

Like i said you have not idea of what is being discussed that is why you cannot make any meaningful contribution on what marginalization is.

Many people have latched on to the Islamic State out of fear, but others believe its aggression presents the best chance to resolve the grievances Sunnis have held for years under Maliki, who has been accused of aggregating power and packing the security services with fellow Shiites. The Sunnis’ demands include the release of prisoners held without trial, a bigger share of civil service jobs and greater representation at top levels of the government and security forces.
http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-sunni-opposition-maliki-20140703-story.html#page=1

the sunnis organised a peaceful protest in anbar, late last year but maliki the shia tyrant would not listen, now the guns are rolling and u are here making much noise with little content http://iswiraq..com/2014/01/showdown-in-anbar.html

But it is obvious, I am wasting precious time explaining things to you.

AlBaqir:
[s]Dear brother, what interest do you really have replying every so-called comments of this guy vedaxcool? The guy has chosen to be an antagonist, a fanatic who only see what he wished to see. You've made this analysis several times so you don't need to repeat to his deaf ears.
Please note: if he or people like him chose not to reason based on available facts provided, know that tens of hundreds of thousands of viewers who read threads read both sides of the argument/presentations.
Salam.[/s]

You sound like an E-mouner , pele oh! but come oh Extremist Shia, haven't I warned you to desist from spamming my mention thread with you ignorance and mourning comments? Take time oh.

Una no dey tire?

Brothers and sisters, let us remember during iftar to pray for peace and tranquility in all Muslim lands. Palestine, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Afghanistan, Lebanon etc. May Allah help Muslims against those who seek to oppress them.

Just heard now that Sheikh Musa Cerantonio has been arrested in the Phillipines. He would most likely be extradited to his home country, Australia where he has long been wanted.
I dont even know what to say but I'm not too happy with the development. He's been on the run for long and now captured. May Allaah assist him.

kazlaw2000: Just heard now that Sheikh Musa Cerantonio has been arrested in the Phillipines. He would most likely be extradited to his home country, Australia where he has long been wanted.
I dont even know what to say but I'm not too happy with the development. He's been on the run for long and now captured. May Allaah assist him.

Musa Cerantonio has been advocating for extreme groups including boko haram. I had mixed feelings, sad because he is muslim but he has been putting dangerous ideas out there and young muslims follow him

May Allah assist him and make him increase in the proper understanding of this religion.

tbaba1234:

Musa Cerantonio has been advocating for extreme groups including boko haram. I had mixed feelings, sad because he is muslim but he has been putting dangerous ideas out there and young muslims follow him

May Allah assist him and make him increase in the proper understanding of this religion.

Aamiin

Shabbir Rahmatullah Hassanally says
"It was very interesting a number of things that happened in the run up to this onslaught in Gaza.

Firstly, al-Baghdadi the BS so-called "caliph" of the Izlamic State (a Zionist creation no doubt) makes his appearance, the world is focused on the carnage this bastard is generating through his ignorant minions in Iraq and Syria - though not really focused on it as the mainstream media gave BS versions and "analysis" that had no credibility or realty within it - just scaremongering and fear mongering.

That's not to say that ISIS is not a serious threat to humanity - they are a threat - but they are more a MISDIRECTION.

Remember MOSSAD has always said "BY WAY OF DECEPTION MAKE WAR" - so what is the best deception - MISDIRECTION - point the people else where - and we had - no have - a lot of distractions, there is the World Cup, Wimbledon, and all that jazz
- not to mention that its the month of Ramadhan so Muslims are busy with fasting and such also (isn't it interesting that the Zionists always start a war in Shahr Ramadhan and in Muharram?).

They know that the supporters of the Palestinians are busy dealing with the secondary terror threat in the region and the close and intimate ally of the Zionists - the Takfiri's backed by Saudi Arabia and Qatar and others who support the Zionist project.

Gaza - a small enclave, already besieged and oppressed, harmed and battered - with a small group of resistance fighters, without any air support, without any naval support, without any real traditionally trained or equipped army - who have to smuggle weapons in from black market traders in Zionist occupied Egypt and elsewhere. Who make their own little rockets which by comparison are nothing more than firecrackers. They are considered a threat??!!!

Please. Any sane and honest person who considers that to be the truth is either clinically insane, deluded or clearly dishonest and a Zionist supporter (be they overtly or covertly supportive of Zionism).

Gaza is tiny, it poses no threat to the Zionists - but actually it does pose a threat. A very real threat.

What is this threat - clearly it's not militarily its not strategically. No threat is that Gaza exists. It exists only through it's resistance. Therefore, it's very existence and by extension resistance, goes further every nanosecond to destroy the myth of legitimacy that the Zionist entity attempts to give to the world.

Yes the morons of the world, the Camerons, the Obamas, the IDF Spokesmen and other such fools, the Saudi kings, the John Kerrys and others, the fools who run the BBC, ABC, and other such media outlets are taken in - the fools on twitter and Facebook who are paid to promote the Zionist argument of "OH MY GOD we're being bombed by the "KHAMAS" terrorists with their "ROCKETS" - when in reality while rockets are fired in response to bunker busters, depleted uranium munitions, dime munitions, and other such "pin point accurate" weapons that massacre children, destroy hospitals and mosques, that murder kids watching a game of football - all the while these terrified Zionists sit atop the mountain in Sderot and watch "Cinema Gaza" they watch and laugh at the massacre of the children of Gaza.

The world then wonders why there is terror in the world? A wise man once said, that if you allow cancer to persist, it will occupy everything, and it will modify the thought patterns of all that it occupies to comply with it's own warped agenda, ultimately killing the organism that it occupies. The Zionist project has very similar traits.
Think about it.

ZIONISM == NAZISM == FACISM == TAKFIRISM == ITS ALL THE SAME DAMN THING.

Oh yes, and above all - MADE IN THE USA.

End.