Empiree:

Here you go. @bold, how do you know this if not through chains of transmission. You just spoke of Hadith @bold. Dont forget there is Hadith Qudsi as well.

Sissie:


You were arguing about Islamic finance and capitalism.
And I told you you it was islamic economic system and capitalism, as islamic finance is a part of Islamic economic system. Capitalism is an economic system, the system as a whole which finance is a part of. And turned out you knew close to nothing about Islamic economic system but still felt you knew enough about finance to argue it with me, which makes you a noise maker. Is it clear now?

And you post asking me if we were not talking about islamic finance? I obviously stated that in the previous post.

usermane:

you need chains of transmission to know that you have to be kind or honest?

TheBigUrban2:


There is no such thing as an islamic economic system.

Where does the Quran/Hadith talk about macroeconomic policies or demand/supply or balance of payments or means of production or capital vs labour? The whole idea of economics and countries started a thousand years after islam was founded....so how can there be islamic economics?

There is only islamic finance.

#I just schooled you on islam

Empiree:

No, you need to be schooled. And you claimed to have studied Islam?. bro, go back to school

Empiree:

No, you need to be schooled. And you claimed to have studied Islam?. bro, go back to school

TheBigUrban2:




You are the one that does not know how to properly arrange grammar to convey a clear message (rather than me being the one that misunderstood). Effect of too much Arabic, huh?


Reread your sentence;



From the way the sentence is structured, does it look like you were talking about islam with me?

Sissie:

Like I said your a noise maker. If you were smart eevn fi I rwtoe kile sith you would have understood it.

Now let me explain my grammar as its above your grade.

I clearly stated I
tried having a discussion about Islam with the big urban, it wasn't even about beliefs but finance, capitalism etc

I tried having a discussion ABOUT ISLAM now another poster may assume it was about beliefs as you are an atheist, so I stated clearly it wasn't about beliefs but finance and capitalism.
I exaggerated your ability to understand, that's why I didn't need to clearly type Islamic finance, just as I didn't need to type Islamic Beliefs since I already said it was a discussion ABOUT ISLAM. This obviously means, I tried having a discussion about finance and capitalism within the Islamic context.

TheBigUrban2:


There is no such thing as an islamic economic system.

Where does the Quran/Hadith talk about macroeconomic policies or demand/supply or balance of payments or means of production or capital vs labour? The whole idea of economics and countries started a thousand years after islam was founded....so how can there be islamic economics?

There is only islamic finance.

#I just schooled you on islam

Sissie:

You are hilarious.
School me bwahahaha

Like I said you are a noise maker.

TheBigUrban2:

lol......


Weren't you and some other muslimahs complaining about female issues in islam?

See this learner. Dont let me school you again. mtchew

Sissie:

Sissie complaining on female issues in Islam? go back and read again this time read it slowly.
So you read some Muslimahs post complaining means I also complained? Is your comprehension skills that low?

TheBigUrban2:


School me with facts then.


Where are the economic policies in the Quran or hadith?

Or you think Jizya tax and zakat run an economy? lol



What does the Quran/hadith say about import/exports? What about minimum wage and capital gains? What about corporations- are corporations define in the Quran?

Empiree:

@bold got me

Well, there is no "minimum wage" in Islam. Instead you bargain. You pay people what they worth . If you own a real property and you rent or sell it. Islam maintains that it must be at market value. It is reported in Hadith (paraphrase)where in the time of the prophet(saw), a man or woman sells his or her goods below market value in other to make "quick sales", upon hearing this, prophet(saw) quickly advised him (or her) to raise the price. This subject is linked with riba (usury). Another hadith talks about Bilal (ra) selling his inferior dates in exchange for quality dates. Upon hearing this, prophet(saw) warned him about possibility of engaging usury. The thing is Quran and Hadith are guiding lights. Some things are legislated and do not change. Some are left with authority (muslim leader). There are lengthy ahadith I cant possibly type them all here. Example...

Moral Conduct in Entrepreneurship

“And measure full when you measure. And weigh with an even balance. This is better and its end is good.” [Al-Bani-Israel: 35].

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: “The seller and the buyer have the right to keep or return the goods as long as they have not parted or till they part; and if both the parties spoke the truth and described the defects and qualities [of the goods], then they would be blessed in their transaction, and if they told lies or hid something, then the blessings of their transaction would be lost.” (Bukhari, No: 1937)

It was reported that during Ottoman empire, they used to have "market police" who oversaw and enforced prices in the free and fair market. The thing is Islam economy policies are usually linked with riba. Troll these links see if you can benefit one or two things. Please go through the last link as well. Link #1 sure have Quranic verses and ahadith on economy and shariah compliant investment. There are lots of talks on Islam and economics, Islam and international monetary system and so fourth in the last link.

1- http://islamiceconomicsproject./islamic-economics-in-quran-hadith/
2- http://www.onislam.net/english/shariah/hadith/this-hadith/437206.html
3- http://www.albalagh.net/Islamic_economics/finance.shtml#Top
https://www.youtube.com/user/SheikhImranHosein/videos

TheBigUrban2:

Empiree:

I honestly did not expect anything less from you. You went through the whole thing is couple of minutes?. Exactly how scholarship works right?. Well, on minimum age, some may disagree. The fact is it's a form of slavery. Imagine less privileged folks working hard and being paid wage of a dog and we have some men up there driving BMW, sitting around and drinking coffee. And at the end of the month they take home thousands of bucks. How's that fair?. Well, no need to argue here my friend. I didnt expect anything better from you if you could reply within very tiny period and telling me you went through the whole links?. Abeg, go siddon.

usermane: Thanks Hkana and Empiree but the basis for discarding hadith goes beyond what i 've covered here. So i 'll pass the invitation.
Can you tell us those hadith that taught you how to pray? Please post. Also i need response from others like Rilwayne001 on this.

usermane: Thanks Hkana and Empiree but the basis for discarding hadith goes beyond what i 've covered here. So i 'll pass the invitation.
Can you tell us those hadith that taught you how to pray? Please post. Also i need response from others like Rilwayne001 on this.

TheBigUrban2:

Empiree:

You missing the point my man. Can you actually conduct trade in modern time like 6th century?. Of course not. The points highlighted in my earlier post deal with business ethics, investment, economics etc. Capitalism sucks anyways. And of course nothing stops us in modern time from modern economic chart you drawn earlier. The fact is modern economics doesnt change 6th century Islamic economy free and fair market outlined in the Quran and hadith.
For example, usury will never be permitted in Islam. Fair market will never be forbidden in Islam. Marketing and trading are parts of islamic economic growth. As for minimum wage, if that's your believe so be it. Minimum wage is really for the poor. It doesnt matter if it's 20$ an hr. It makes poor permanently poor and rich permanently rich. Tell Donald Trump to work at Wall Street for 30$ an hr, he would curse you out. However, $30/hr is lottery for the poor.

Runing away? i dont think it's proper dialogue with you. You are a waste of my precious time. I gave you links you replied is few minutes that you understood everything therein and still want me talking to you. Pls

TheBigUrban2:

No budgets, no imports, no exports, no macroeconomic polices, nothing......yet they are proof that there is islamic economy

Empiree:
Seems like you talking about specific business while i am talking about general business ethics. We seem to be on diff page my friend.

1-Budgets, of course all meaningful biz would have budgets.

2-no imports, no exports, all businesses involve this? I am not talking about specific business

3-macroeconomic polices, here you dealing with probably nations, parties' etc economy. This is the one i was talking about earlier, it policies. Now if you talking about specific company policies, I am not getting involve in that. Thats not what i am talking about
I dont know which part of the world you live but I can almost guarantee you that many living on minimum wage or wage salary really not achieving financial freedom. Some do something else on the side. Yet, Tbaba may disagree but thats not the point. The point is as far as I know minimum wage is not in islam. Rather, bargain wage. Minimum wage is a system regulated in our time. There are many contractors, like licensed building construction workers. They work on contract. You dont expect them to work minimum wage for anyone. They charge the chunk. Dont get me wrong. I am not saying minimum wage is bad.
There is micro and macro economics in Islam. What you want here is layout of specific business. But I gave you islamic economic policies. It can be small trade or better still large scale business. I am not talking about specific business. Islam economic polices are explained in the links. I think two of the links explained it (including bunch of videos). So i am not talking about specific business.

Empiree: Even when you apply for job, if you qualify, they still bargain with you even though they have specific amount they will pay you. For example, after you qualified for job offer, manager asks how much are you willing to be paid?. Say minimum wage is 7$/hr, and you say you want 10$, it's up to the company to hire you. Point is you still bargain but because we live in modern economy which is pretty much regulated, your wage is confined at certain per hour amount. It doesn't matter if you want more. That comes later or never. Potential employee however is afraid of asking for bigger amount to avoid losing potential job offer. Anyways, nice talking with you. Am not economist. I may contribute later here in the future. I am into medical.

TheBigUrban2:
Thank God, you have admitted that you do not understand economics since you are into medical sciences.
mtchew.
See what islam has done to you? You assumed that you could challenge someone who studied economics because you felt that islam offers perfect guidance in finance/economics. Holy arrogance

AlBaqir:

Take your time brother and digest. That is just the beginning in sha Allah. May Allah give us the right understanding.

Kanz ummal (treasures of doers of good deeds) is one of a collection of Sunni hadith compiled by Muhadith Ali Muttaqi al-Hindi (888AH).