9jacrip:

Bro, this is the effect of their Oba's ego influenced fraud committed on history. He has set a trend of denial, they will deny anything and everything over mere supremacy that holds no water nor has any resultant effect when world over, people know the history of Ife and its relation to other kingdoms in the S/West and beyond.

Origins and Empire: The Benin, Owo, and Ijebu Kingdoms

Territorial expansion and dialogue among the powerful states of the Guinea coast region of West Africa resulted in exchanges that were not only economic but also artistic and cultural in nature. As a result, Owo, Ijebu, and Benin, a trio of kingdoms located within present-day southern Nigeria, shared aspects of courtly culture including titles, ceremonial paraphernalia, and art forms. These commonalities are especially interesting and noteworthy given the ethnic disparities that existed among these distinct polities. While the states of Owo and Ijebu were composed primarily of Yoruba peoples, the core populations of the Benin kingdom were ethnically Edo.

In their respective oral traditions, Ijebu, Owo, and Benin all trace their origins to the ancient city of Ile-Ife, the cradle of Yoruba culture, and claim that their founders were the sons of the Yoruba deity Odudua, who was the first ruler of that city. Especially in Owo and Benin, the early art-historical and archaeological records reinforce these strong affiliations with Ife culture. Benin's royal histories relate that the court's brass casters learned their art from an Ife master named Iguegha, who had been sent from Ife around 1400 at the request of Benin's oba Oguola. Indeed, the earliest dated cast-brass memorial heads from Benin (1979.206.86) replicate the refined naturalism of Ife sculpture; early Owo terracotta sculpture appears to have been heavily influenced by the arts of Ife as well.

Each kingdom's historical ties to Ife contributed to its sense of identity, and doubtless encouraged and justified their appropriation of certain aspects of Ife's political and religious practices. It was ultimately their ongoing relationships with one another, however, that produced broad similarities in their art forms and courtly structures. The outward-looking tendencies of these states were manifested in broad-based trade, diplomacy, and warfare. Ijebu's lagoon ports and well-established trade routes to the lower Niger Delta, as well as overland routes via the Ondo and Owo Yoruba states, ensured economic and cultural interchange with Benin. Owo, whose territories abutted those of Benin, also engaged in extensive trade with this state. Benin itself was an expansive state whose superior military permitted it to dominate territories well beyond its heartland.


The exact nature of the political and military engagements among these states is unclear; oral histories collected from the courts of Owo, Ijebu, and Benin provide divergent commentaries on this subject. While Benin claims to have placed Ijebu under its dominion during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, Ijebu's own traditions dispute this. By the seventeenth century, Benin controlled the coast from the southern Niger Delta to at least the eastern edge of Ijebu's territory, but it is unclear what political influence the Edo court had upon the Ijebu heartland in the interior. Owo, Benin's neighbor to the northwest, appears to have intermittently found itself under the suzerainty of the obas. Given the Edo origins of many aspects of Owo's courtly culture, it is clear that the diplomatic relationship between the two kingdoms was intimate, and not entirely equitable: royal Edo histories speak of Osogboye, the sixteenth-century ruler of Owo who visited the Benin court to adopt highly prestigious forms of Edo courtly culture. Not surprisingly, this version of events is contested by Owo historians, who assert that Osogboye traveled to Benin to learn military techniques that would better protect his kingdom from Edo aggression. Altogether, these conflicting historical perspectives suggest that the similarities which exist between the Yoruba states and their Edo counterpart can be attributed to a combination of factors: the forcible influence of Benin, the assertion of common origins at Ife, and the desire of less powerful kingdoms to strengthen themselves and enrich their status by incorporating the traditions of their adversary.

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/beni_2/hd_beni_2.htm

Sweetlemon: One question please.

Why the hell are Yorubas and Igbos so obsessed with claiming SS tribes no matter how much we shout and scream that we are NOT and will NEVER be Yorubas/Igbos?

9jacrip: Fact: heads of Benin Kings have been buried in Ile-Ife since Eweka till the colonialist took a strong hold and it was stopped - the last 2 Benin Kings were buried in Benin with their complete parts.

Fact: Yoruba was the palace language in Benin until recently, I believe it was stopped by the present Oba because during the predecessor's time, Yoruba was still the palace language.

Benin Monarchy is different from Benin people who had been long in existence before Oranmiyan and Eweka. The Oranmiya/Eweka phenomenal effect was making Benin throne an offshoot and a 'junior' to Ife throne like other Yoruba thrones where Ife gives blessings and confirmation of every ascending king - in the case of Benin, it was furthered by making Yoruba the palace language and burial of Benin king parts in Ife.

The confusion we have today is as a result of egotistic kings who seek to slash history into bits just to be highly placed - above or equal to Ooni. Same is Ijebu with Sudan story. The effect of this egotistic agendas is why we are here arguing place of Oba Ado's death - in a few more decades starting from now, we will begin to argue Yoruba language was never Benin Palace language.

Soon, successful Benin kings will stop going to Ife for blessings and confirmation of kingship and we will start debating if previous Benin kings ever did.

crackhaus:
You're a cretin, an unintelligible nitwit. Can't you make known your disagreement without exposing the scum of the earth that you are for the whole cyber-world to see?
You are a cacophonous catastrophe and I do not even know you, neither have I come across you making any note-worthy contributions on this forum in all my time here.
Please desist from quoting anyone if all you intend to do is insult over an anonymous forum, clearly you are retar.ded and cannot assimilate constructively the fact that historical accounts are highly suggestive...

macof:

yes Bini are independent but where did their royal family come from = Ife

Infact Before Eweka I (son of Oranmiyan), The Adimula of Ife was the one who controlled Bini as Oranmiyan was sent as a representative..... I wouldn't want to go deep in this bit cause not much people know this...it would only cause commotion

crackhaus:
You're a cretin, an unintelligible nitwit. Can't you make known your disagreement without exposing the scum of the earth that you are for the whole cyber-world to see?
You are a cacophonous catastrophe and I do not even know you, neither have I come across you making any note-worthy contributions on this forum in all my time here.
Please desist from quoting anyone if all you intend to do is insult over an anonymous forum, clearly you are retar.ded and cannot assimilate constructively the fact that historical accounts are highly suggestive...

macof:

No one says Benin culture is has roots in any Yoruba city but as for the Eweka dynasty's Omo n'oba of Benin Oba Erediuwa, his ancestors were buried in Ife, as a way of honouring the land of their fathers

His bloodline is traced back to Oranmiyan, as the Ooni Ife and Alaafin of Oyo too

crackhaus:
Ahh no wonder, you really are a nitwit further garnished by your dimwitted nature.
So you mean to tell us that Yoruba was a palace language during the reign of Akenzua II, the predecessor of the present Omo no' Oba Erediawa? Is this what you are trying to pass across with the emboldened? And you call this fact?
I guess you pulled this 'fact' out of the sh1t-stained watery crevice of your azz huh....your sphincter muscles should be crying in agony right now for the pain you have caused it.

Redoil: I love females so much that i hate insulting them. For the nonesense you have pour down i will reserve my insult for any of ur numerous boyfriends or bedmate whenever i meet them on line

9jacrip:

It is best not to make any contributions at all than to display the tacky watery matter in your head for a brain to the whole world?

Worthy folks with whom I debate history know themselves, the best you deserve is insult, debating you or attempting to dispute your erroneous gibberish you typed is pretty below my status.

Stay on the side lines, matters relating to history is not your forte, you're at best a thicko spectator whose 'job' is to learn or chip in dates or names here and there.

Sweetlemon: One question please.

Why the hell are Yorubas and Igbos so obsessed with claiming SS tribes no matter how much we shout and scream that we are NOT and will NEVER be Yorubas/Igbos?

crackhaus:
Your status? You mean your online status? Indeed you are highly and probably deficient in that part of the brain that knows to differentiate the e-world from reality.
Status he says.. bro you must be kidding me, the knowledge of history can be claimed by anyone here and you telling me that your knowledge surpasses mine or those of others you have debunked just proves how delusional and delirious you so are.

You are an utterably insufferable narcissist, one who believes himself of higher status among a see of anonymous monikers. Please get yourself checked you cretin.

9jacrip: Fact: heads of Benin Kings have been buried in Ile-Ife since Eweka till the colonialist took a strong hold and it was stopped - the last 2 Benin Kings were buried in Benin with their complete parts.

Fact: Yoruba was the palace language in Benin until recently, I believe it was stopped by the present Oba because during the predecessor's time, Yoruba was still the palace language.

Benin Monarchy is different from Benin people who had been long in existence before Oranmiyan and Eweka. The Oranmiya/Eweka phenomenal effect was making Benin throne an offshoot and a 'junior' to Ife throne like other Yoruba thrones where Ife gives blessings and confirmation of every ascending king - in the case of Benin, it was furthered by making Yoruba the palace language and burial of Benin king parts in Ife.

The confusion we have today is as a result of egotistic kings who seek to slash history into bits just to be highly placed - above or equal to Ooni. Same is Ijebu with Sudan story. The effect of this egotistic agendas is why we are here arguing place of Oba Ado's death - in a few more decades starting from now, we will begin to argue Yoruba language was never Benin Palace language.

Soon, successful Benin kings will stop going to Ife for blessings and confirmation of kingship and we will start debating if previous Benin kings ever did.

crackhaus:
Finally, someone who reasons constructively and without tribal bias.
Your comment @emboldened is the reason why I try to steer clear of this Edo-Yoruba argument every time I come across it.

The origins of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan is and was never the start or birth of the Bini empire. this is what most people trying to force superiority don't seem to understand. As you rightly said, the Ogiso dynasty which spanned over 1000 years and produced the Ogiso rulers and kings was already in existence long before the Oranmiyan and Oduduwa era.

The Ogiso empire covered as far as Benin Republic (notice the name), Togo, and even parts of Ghana. Some historians have claimed that the Ashanti tribe of the Akan ethnic group in Ghana also have some history with the Ogisos.
Within Nigeria, the whole of mid-western region and Yoruba kingdom also formed part of the Ogiso empire, all this was before the arrival of the Portuguese who further enlightened the Bini people in modern (as at that time) skills and crafts with which they used to master the arts of bronze casting, metal works, clay handling and building, as well as enhancing trades between the Portuguese and the Binis via the closest port in 'Eko' which was also under Bini empire.

I think I'll stop here before I type my day away, the history of the Binis/Portuguese/British/Yoruba is quite extensive.

lamdec:

I have been observing this Benin-Yoruba argument for a while and although I am not taking sides but I want to go by what you posted.
According to your claim, only some specific people knows where the Oba of Benin is buried and what is done during burial. Even the Chiefs don't know, you claimed only the Palace Chiefs know and they won't tell. So that has proven that NO Benin person can Authoritatively say if the Heads of the Oba of Benin is buried in Ile-Ife or not. And here there is a proof of a Shrine that indicates that the Head of Oba of Benin is buried in Ife, and like the Edo people use to claim that their history is well documented, I think we should go by the proof we have on ground and agree that the "Heads" not the whole body is buried in Ile ife, while the other part of the body is buried in Benin.
I know we would not reach a concesus even with proof because as humans, we believe we are superior than any other person(s).

shymexx:

Yoruba's aren't claiming Edo's, we're two distinct groups. This is just to set the records straight based on historical facts, on how the Benin royalty has its origins in Ife. Ife needs to be celebrated. People can't just re-write history based on revisionism to make themselves feel better. you have to always give credits where it's due. Ancient Greeks gave all credit for their civilisation to the ancient Egyptians. And Europe will always credit a large chunk of western civilisation to the Romans. Just as Africa will always be the cradle of mankind. So, Benin folks also need to give Ife its just due.

Itsekiri's for example are mostly Yoruba's, how many Yoruba's do you see claiming them? However, most Itsekiri's scholastic researches on the web by Itsekiri academics always claim Yoruba ancestry, but Yoruba's don't claim them. Igala speak a Yoruboid language, but have you ever seen any Yoruba person claim Igala folks? We're a strong nation, and we don't need other people. But revisionism isn't a good thing. People need to give credit here it's due...this is African history and we need to tell our story based on FACTS not FICTION.

9jacrip:

This further shows your mental capability. If tirade throwing is what you're interested in and not necessarily the topic, puhhliz nigga create another thread - we can throw down and insult all the way.

Sweetlemon: One question please.

Why the hell are Yorubas and Igbos so obsessed with claiming SS tribes no matter how much we shout and scream that we are NOT and will NEVER be Yorubas/Igbos?

Sweetlemon:

I understand the first part of your reply but as for the second part all I can say is keep deceiving yourself. Yorubas claim Ishekiris and Igalas every opportunity they get. But the Ishekiris I know will not fail to correct you and proudly tell you that they are Ishekiris and not Yorubas. they are quick to correct the difference btw Omawunmi and Omowunmi, etc. Besides, it is Ishekiri and not Itshekiri.

shymexx:

I've never even seen any Yoruba person claim Igala - never.

As for Itsekiri's, they always claim Yoruba. Go check all the great Itsekiri people and how close they were with everything Yoruba. Or do you want me to start citing names?

How about Itsekiri history and how most of the Itsekiri households/clans still maintain their ancestral links to the Yoruba's? Ugborodo? Omadino? etc.. The list is endless.

We don't even need anyone, to be honest...we've got everything we need as a people.

And, it was Jekri before it became Ijekiri - and whatever it's called now.

9jacrip:

You're becoming a troll real fast bruh. By status, I meant online in relation to my input on historical subject matters.

Still you've added nothing but you keep overusing 'cretin', is that like your middle name?

GTFOH or add to the discourse.

shymexx:

Stop telling porkies - a large chunk of Bini religion came from Yoruba. Ifa, Olokun, Ogun etc.

A lot of Bini arts also came from Yoruba. There are Ife, Owo, and Ijebu influences on Benin arts - even most Benin historians can't deny this.

Sweetlemon:

Odenigbo Aroli:

You don't sound very intelligent ;There are Igbo groups scattered all over south south and Igbo influence went as far as Uhrobo, Igala,Ekoi,Idoma,Ikwerre and even Bini. We don't claim who isn't our brethren. And by the way,what Igbo business on this thread? ? Respect yourself!

gidjah: SORRY ABOUT D INSULT,'SOME of us are not properly trained wit using goodly words',

shymexx:

It's funny right?

Er, the most popular Itsekiri historian I'm conversant with on google scholar is one Prof. Itse Sagay. How about go read his scholarships about Itsekiri history?

9jacrip: Fact: heads of Benin Kings have been buried in Ile-Ife since Eweka till the colonialist took a strong hold and it was stopped - the last 2 Benin Kings were buried in Benin with their complete parts.

Fact: Yoruba was the palace language in Benin until recently, I believe it was stopped by the present Oba because during the predecessor's time, Yoruba was still the palace language.

Benin Monarchy is different from Benin people who had been long in existence before Oranmiyan and Eweka. The Oranmiya/Eweka phenomenal effect was making Benin throne an offshoot and a 'junior' to Ife throne like other Yoruba thrones where Ife gives blessings and confirmation of every ascending king - in the case of Benin, it was furthered by making Yoruba the palace language and burial of Benin king parts in Ife.

The confusion we have today is as a result of egotistic kings who seek to slash history into bits just to be highly placed - above or equal to Ooni. Same is Ijebu with Sudan story. The effect of this egotistic agendas is why we are here arguing place of Oba Ado's death - in a few more decades starting from now, we will begin to argue Yoruba language was never Benin Palace language.

Soon, successful Benin kings will stop going to Ife for blessings and confirmation of kingship and we will start debating if previous Benin kings ever did.

Ubenedictus: actually dear, olukun and ogun were localised in yoruba land, they are actually bini god, and in bini, olokun isn't necessarily female, he is actually the SON of osanobua, ogun too, if you do a search on the origin of olokun worship u will be suprised.

Really, humour me about the yoruba influence in bini art.