macof:

And did the creator ever tell you he wanted you to satisfy it?
And in what way it wants d satisfaction?

Qur'an

"Wa maa khalaqtul-Jinna wal-'insa 'illa liya'-buduun."
Quran Chapter 51 Ayah 56

I created the Jinn and humankind only to worship Me


Bible :

Matthew 4:10 New International Version (NIV)
10

Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’

::::::::::::::
The Only medium through which God has communicated with HumanBeing are the scriptures and the only essence of creation is to satisfy/worship God


How you satisfy God :

You do that by complying with his Dos and Don'ts !!

donroxy:

The Only medium through which God has communicated with HumanBeing are the scriptures and the only essence of creation is to satisfy/worship God

No. I won't worship him and he can do absolutely nothing about it.

AlfaSeltzer:

No. I won't worship him and he can do absolutely nothing about it.

Qur'an 2 vs 256

There shall be no compulsion in (acceptance of) the religion.

The right course has become clear from the wrong.
:::::::::::::::::::

Good for ya, no one is forcing you !!

donroxy:
Qur'an

"Wa maa khalaqtul-Jinna wal-'insa 'illa liya'-buduun."
Quran Chapter 51 Ayah 56

I created the Jinn and humankind only to worship Me


Bible :

Matthew 4:10 New International Version (NIV)
10

Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’

::::::::::::::
The Only medium through which God has communicated with HumanBeing are the scriptures and the only essence of creation is to satisfy/worship God


How you satisfy God :

You do that by complying with his Dos and Don'ts !!

Sorry! This doesn't answer my question.

I asked "has the creator ever asked u to satisfy it and how do u satisfy it"

Stop telling me wat men have written with their hands and tell me what Allah has said with his mouth

I don't go around living my life based on wat some 6th century drunkards wrote

macof:

Sorry! This doesn't answer my question.

I asked "has the creator ever asked u to satisfy it and how do u satisfy it"

Stop telling me wat men have written with their hands and tell me what Allah has said with his mouth

I don't go around living my life based on wat some 6th century drunkards wrote

macof again, NoBody is asking you to live your life in a particular way you don't wanna live it as that is simply your problem !!

I remember when I usually referred your brain as PuffPuff and that of all LogicBoy's moniker because you guys will never stay on point of discord but dillydallying just to unreasonably refute facts !!


I posted based on the Topic of the thread ( read the Topic and Op) and U quoted asking questions and I replied you with reasons why Religion wouldn't use Logic in conducting what they do since scriptures is what they use to conduct their activities !!!


Only for you to turn around and made this thread about yourself!!

This thread is not about YOU nor whatever you belief!!

tis about why is Logic not allowed in Religion....... ...... You guys just argue dirty and baseless


what is my business if you belief in drunkards or not , that is your own problem not mine , my own is to give reasons why Religion doesn't allow Logic and I have done that

italo:

What can be used to test it?

Reason.

Besides, if you do, the belief in a being that created the entire Universe out of nothing is irrational. Also the belief in miracles, miracles being the belief in an illogical unexplainable phenomena

davidylan:

created by what and how? I beg your pardon but that line in highlights flies in the face of the atheistic theory of how man evolved. According to pseudo-science, man and everything else on the planets were "created" by random, illogical mutational arrangements... so how come we suddenly developed the ability to reason in the midst of such thoughtless chaos?

I am not an atheist. Go through the thread and see my stance. cheers

texanomaly:

Who is this God you speak of? Where does he/she come from? How do you know this person/entity?

When i talk about God, i don't have a person in mind. I think of the entity or entities that powered this universe. I don't believe that everything we see just appeared by accident. There is too much order in the world for such to be possible. So i believe we have a creator or creators although no one can say with any measure of certainty what he, she or they look like.

qstar:

What is "miracle"?

What makes you believe in "miracles"?

Miracle is a vague term used to describe occurrences that deviate from the established natural course of events. I am sure that such things occur in every religion of the world. If there were no religions, these occurrences would still happen. It is therefore erroneous for anyone to say these miracles happen because their own religion is right while others are wrong.

Onyegecha:


Miracle is a vague term used to describe occurrences that deviate from the established natural course of events. I am sure that such things occur in every religion of the world. If there were no religions, these occurrences would still happen. It is therefore erroneous for anyone to say these miracles happen because their own religion is right while others are wrong.

To establish and maintain a universal form and order is logical.

To break this universal order, is illogical. Say, the clock going anticlockwise, or the earth to stop rotating.

donroxy: macof again, NoBody is asking you to live your life in a particular way you don't wanna live it as that is simply your problem !!

Then don't quote quran...resolve ur religious doctrines to a non-Muslim with simple logic and life based observations

I remember when I usually referred your brain as PuffPuff and that of all LogicBoy's moniker because you guys will never stay on point of discord but dillydallying just to unreasonably refute facts !!

when you can't handle a comment this is wat you spill...rubbish!

I posted based on the Topic of the thread ( read the Topic and Op) and U quoted asking questions and I replied you with reasons why Religion wouldn't use Logic in conducting what they do since scriptures is what they use to conduct their activities !!!


Only for you to turn around and made this thread about yourself!!

This thread is not about YOU nor whatever you belief!!

tis about why is Logic not allowed in Religion....... ...... You guys just argue dirty and baseless


what is my business if you belief in drunkards or not , that is your own problem not mine , my own is to give reasons why Religion doesn't allow Logic and I have done that

In other words, you agree ur religion is strictly against you using your (some may say "God given" intelligence?

texanomaly:

You have been fixated on faith lately. What's the draw? What are you fishing for exactly? What is it you are in search of where faith is concerned?

You've brought it up a few times lately in more than one thread. I would like to know what is driving you to ask about it. You obviously know the definition. You know it is a huge part of many religions. What exactly are you after that has not been said before?

Because it is pivotal to the religion. However faith cannot be a foundation.

Onyegecha:

When i talk about God, i don't have a person in mind. I think of the entity or entities that powered this universe. I don't believe that everything we see just appeared by accident. There is too much order in the world for such to be possible. So i believe we have a creator or creators although no one can say with any measure of certainty what he, she or they look like.

the Anunnaki.

macof:
Then don't quote quran...resolve ur religious doctrines to a non-Muslim with simple logic and life based observations

life based Observation 1

An American asked a Nigerian, why is Logic not allowed to preside over Mega Nigeria ?

Then the Nigerian answered :

According to Part 1 section 1(1) , the constitution of the federal republic of Nigeria is the supreme document for Nigerians and not what our Logic define to be right nor wrong therefore, in order not to run into trouble in the longrun , we must conform with the provisions of our constitution and not what our Logic defined to be right nor wrong !!


Then , the foolish American said :

Hey , sharap, stop quoting your constitution for Non-Nigeria , why can't you use Logic and life -based observation to express yourself !! ........ ....... ( a person whose IQ is up2date would already seen the stupidity on the part of the American) !!


Life based observation 2

The Logic of two homosexual define that both of them can marry one another , yes, Western system support that, but under the constitution of Nigeria , it is 14years imprisonment , Unfortunately, the Logic of Homosexuals doesn't preside over the Supreme Document of Nigerians


Life based Observation 3

In 2007, General Olusegun Obasanjo's logic defined that He should spend third term in Office after spending two tenures as allowed by the constitution (Chapter 6 section 135 is very clear) ..... But foolish Macof said :

why should Nigerian Constitution be cited against Obasanjo, why not life based observation to allowed his Logic precide !!


What does Intelligence shown ?

Intelligence is what you used to ascertain whether you are conforming with required pattern or being starkly foolish ....... !!!

intelligence tells you if there is deviation in patterns, where the deviation occurs and why the deviation as well as corrective measures to put in place !!

In an Organised system that has a document guiding them , it is not about what You feel right nor wrong , it is about what the document states especially regarding your conduct Religiously i.e something to be done repetitively !!


Where each and every human should be allowed to deplore his/her own Logic then Human would have a ''lose systems'' like animals even in Animal Kingdom, they have a kinda Order too i.e a pattern they often abide by (Watch Nat Geo Wild or AnimalPlanet) ...... Yes, some animals even got punished for deviation in pattern !!! ..... Imagine , Animals oo !!!


Religion has never stopped me from using my IQ, infact , it has helped my growth Intelligently !!


Conclusion :
There is no logic behind saying there is no GOD , that is the highest level of Foolishness a Man can attain !!

Kay17:

Reason.

Let us then use reason to test the truthfulness of your idea or thought.

Going by reason, did human reason emerge from the thoughtless, random and meaningless universe and its evolution?

Kay17: Besides, if you do, the belief in a being that created the entire Universe out of nothing is irrational. Also the belief in miracles, miracles being the belief in an illogical unexplainable phenomena

I see!

It only becomes rational when the entire universe pops out on its own...out of nothing. And somehow, that thoughtless and random process miraculously created logic and reason...

...yet 'miracles are "illogical."



The confusion of Atheism!

mazaje1:

Its a ruse cos the doctors are running away from Lourdes. . .

Now, Dr. Patrick Theiller, the secretary of the International Medical Committee of Lourdes, has announced that the panel will no longer be in the “miracle” business. “It’s a sort of rebellion, if you will, against laws that don’t concern us—and shouldn’t,” Theiller told the Associated Press’ Jamey Keaten (for an article published December 3, 2008). He added, “The medical corps must be independent of the ecclesiastic power.” The bishop of the local diocese did acknowledge: “It seems ‘miracle’ may not be the right word to use anymore. It’s no longer a black-and-white question.”

Now, appropriately, the church will be left to decide on so-called miracles; the panel will only indicate whether cases are “remarkable.” And remarkable healings can happen to anyone, independent of religious shrines and supposedly magical water. The $400 million that enrich Lourdes annually could be better spent on medical science than on superstitious beliefs from an earlier time.

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/entry/lourdes_medical_bureau_rebels/

It is good to see that you accept the words of Dr Patrick Theillier.

Let us read more from him:


Doctor Patrick Theillier, who retired from leadership of the bureau last year, stated this in an interview with France Catholique.

The cure, he explained, "might not be as spectacular as to be considered a miracle."

However, the physician added, it can affect "in a profound and lasting way the person who experiences it, in all his being, body, soul and spirit."

Doctor Theillier affirmed that "these cures are truly innumerable."

The bureau is a medical organization run by doctors that operates within the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Lourdes, which, among other things, is responsible for the medical investigation of cures associated with the shrine.

The doctor noted that there are, of course, miraculous cures as well in Lourdes, and 67 have been officially recognized as such.

He affirmed that these miracles are sometimes "necessary," such as at the beginning of the Church. "For faith to increase, it must be supported by miracles," Doctor Theillier said.

Moral sufferings

Yet today, he continued, perhaps more than a century ago, we have a need "to be relieved from moral sufferings and the wounds of life, of a psychological-spiritual order, which goes beyond medicine."

"Here is where Lourdes responds to a very present need, which undoubtedly corresponds more to its original message," the physician stated.

He asserted that these types of "miracles" are "much greater" than the bodily cures, as souls are "regenerated." These miracles, he said, can take place if you desire them, hope with faith, and pray to God.

"Extraordinary physical cures have become rare," Doctor Theillier observed, given that "God acts in the first place through human mediation, through medicine and doctors."

This year, Lourdes will be the site of the international congress for the World Federation for the Catholic Medical Associations. The theme for this May 6-7 event will be "Medicine and Faith."

Doctor Theillier issued an invitation for all doctors worldwide to go to Lourdes on this occasion in order to network with colleagues, hear addresses on the application of faith to medicine, and make a pilgrimage as an "occasion to experience the cure that we all need."

"My hope at this time is that numerous Catholic doctors who suffer much at present because of their faith […] will come to find by Our Lady's side consolation and cure," he said.

He invited all Catholics, "Speak with your doctor!"

The physician concluded, "As those who have come to previous congresses have shown, the doctors who attend will be able to experience God's mercy in this place of graces."
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/doctor-says-many-are-cured-in-lourdes

Miracles happen in Lourdes!

I know that will drive you crazy and you'll start saying nonsense again.

italo:

It is good to see that you accept the words of Dr Patrick Theillier.

Let us read more from him:


Doctor Patrick Theillier, who retired from leadership of the bureau last year, stated this in an interview with France Catholique.

The cure, he explained, "might not be as spectacular as to be considered a miracle."

However, the physician added, it can affect "in a profound and lasting way the person who experiences it, in all his being, body, soul and spirit."

Doctor Theillier affirmed that "these cures are truly innumerable."

The bureau is a medical organization run by doctors that operates within the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Lourdes, which, among other things, is responsible for the medical investigation of cures associated with the shrine.

The doctor noted that there are, of course, miraculous cures as well in Lourdes, and 67 have been officially recognized as such.

He affirmed that these miracles are sometimes "necessary," such as at the beginning of the Church. "For faith to increase, it must be supported by miracles," Doctor Theillier said.

Moral sufferings

Yet today, he continued, perhaps more than a century ago, we have a need "to be relieved from moral sufferings and the wounds of life, of a psychological-spiritual order, which goes beyond medicine."

"Here is where Lourdes responds to a very present need, which undoubtedly corresponds more to its original message," the physician stated.

He asserted that these types of "miracles" are "much greater" than the bodily cures, as souls are "regenerated." These miracles, he said, can take place if you desire them, hope with faith, and pray to God.

"Extraordinary physical cures have become rare," Doctor Theillier observed, given that "God acts in the first place through human mediation, through medicine and doctors."

This year, Lourdes will be the site of the international congress for the World Federation for the Catholic Medical Associations. The theme for this May 6-7 event will be "Medicine and Faith."

Doctor Theillier issued an invitation for all doctors worldwide to go to Lourdes on this occasion in order to network with colleagues, hear addresses on the application of faith to medicine, and make a pilgrimage as an "occasion to experience the cure that we all need."

"My hope at this time is that numerous Catholic doctors who suffer much at present because of their faith […] will come to find by Our Lady's side consolation and cure," he said.

He invited all Catholics, "Speak with your doctor!"

The physician concluded, "As those who have come to previous congresses have shown, the doctors who attend will be able to experience God's mercy in this place of graces."
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/doctor-says-many-are-cured-in-lourdes

Miracles happen in Lourdes!

I know that will drive you crazy and you'll start saying nonsense again.

Did I read the same article as you?. . .the piece you posted actually debunks all the claims you have been making. . . .From what you posted. . .

"Doctor Patrick Theillier, who retired from leadership of the bureau last year, stated this in an interview with France Catholique.

The cure, he explained, "might not be as spectacular as to be considered a miracle."

I gave you an example from the economist article which says that most of the people there were already taken medication so its hard to claim that there cures were miraculous. . .No clear cut case of any miracle there. . .

italo:

I see!

It only becomes rational when the entire universe pops out on its own...out of nothing. And somehow, that thoughtless and random process miraculously created logic and reason...

...yet 'miracles are "illogical."



The confusion of Atheism!

The problem with most of you, is you don't listen. The Big Ban.g thoery most atheists endorse does not postulate that the Universe arose from nothing.

italo:

Let us then use reason to test the truthfulness of your idea or thought.

Going by reason, did human reason emerge from the thoughtless, random and meaningless universe and its evolution?

Aren't the rules for causality (cause and effect) mechanical?

Kay17:

Because it is pivotal to the religion. However faith cannot be a foundation.

Faith is not the foundation, but one must have faith in what is the foundation.

Kay17:

Aren't the rules for causality (cause and effect) mechanical?

The question was:

Let us then use reason to test the truthfulness of your idea or thought.

Going by reason, did human reason emerge from the thoughtless, random and meaningless universe and its evolution?

Kay17:

The problem with most of you, is you don't listen. The Big Ban.g thoery most atheists endorse does not postulate that the Universe arose from nothing.

I see!

It only becomes rational when the entire universe pops out on its own...out of nothing. And somehow, that thoughtless and random process miraculously created logic and reason...

...yet 'miracles are "illogical."

grin grin

The confusion of Atheism!

*edited. So what do you believe the universe popped out from?

God?

mazaje1:

Did I read the same article as you?. . .the piece you posted actually debunks all the claims you have been making. . . .From what you posted. . .

"Doctor Patrick Theillier, who retired from leadership of the bureau last year, stated this in an interview with France Catholique.

The cure, he explained, "might not be as spectacular as to be considered a miracle."

I gave you an example from the economist article which says that most of the people there were already taken medication so its hard to claim that there cures were miraculous. . .No clear cut case of any miracle there. . .

In the piece I posted, Dr Theillier talks about "miracles" occurring in Lourdes.

italo:


I see!

It only becomes rational when the entire universe pops out on its own...out of nothing. And somehow, that thoughtless and random process miraculously created logic and reason...

...yet 'miracles are "illogical."

grin grin

The confusion of Atheism!

*edited. So what do you believe the universe popped out from?

God?

But nowhere in the theory is there actually anything like that said. This is just another imagined misconception of yours.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

Pls if you find any of such, let me know.

italo:

In the piece I posted, Dr Theillier talks about "miracles" occurring in Lourdes.

Miracles that happens when most of the people there were already on medication, right?. . .Well done. . .

italo:


I see!

It only becomes rational when the entire universe pops out on its own...out of nothing. And somehow, that thoughtless and random process miraculously created logic and reason...

...yet 'miracles are "illogical."

grin grin

The confusion of Atheism!

*edited. So what do you believe the universe popped out from?

God?

And which atheist code tells you that atheist believe or claim that randomness is responsible for the universe?. . .Show me that atheist creed. . .

?

Kay17:

But nowhere in the theory is there actually anything like that said. This is just another imagined misconception of yours.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

Pls if you find any of such, let me know.

I'm talking to you, not Wikipedia.

You say it is irrational to believe the universe came from God.

Where then do you believe the universe came from?

By reason, did reason and logic emerge from thoughtless randomness?

You are still too scared to attempt these questions.

When you confront these questions in your heart, you'll be on your way out of the confusion that is Atheism.

mazaje1:

And which atheist code tells you that atheist believe or claim that randomness is responsible for the universe?. . .Show me that atheist creed. . .

You don't have a creed. You can't have a creed.

You just claim nonsense you can't defend...and refute what you don't know or understand.

atheism is confusion.

mazaje1:

Miracles that happens when most of the people there were already on medication, right?. . .Well done. . .

The doctors say "miracles" happen.

The same doctors who administer the drugs and know the limitations of the drugs say that miracles happen. They say that God has worked wonders that exceed the limitations of the drugs and science.

Hallelujah!

*I know that satan in you is green with envy.

italo:

The doctors say "miracles" happen.

The same doctors who administer the drugs and know the limitations of the drugs say that miracles happen. They say that God has worked wonders that exceed the limitations of the drugs and science.

Hallelujah!

*I know that satan in you is green with envy.

This is what we call "fake miracles"


Lazarus was not raised from the dead while being on life support.


Had they been healed with no medication involved, you would have had a point