I hope some naïve nairalanders won't follow the advice of these agents of darkness.

zboyd:

First, I feel the question is legitimate.

Second, I've always wondered why some women subscribe to the concept of submission, seeing how some men abuse it AND them.

Third, why demonize the author for thinking outside the box?

Fourth, everyone's entitled to their opinion - that's why we have brains.

Thanks for your response.

Remember you came off touting this post as a pastoral opinion to give it legitimacy
Nobody who believes in the Bible will question a Biblical order by calling it some ancient order that is irrelevant today
He is not thinking outside the box,he is giving an unbiblical opinion while calling himself a reverend and someone ought to call him out on it.
Rev King was also a reverend

zboyd:

First, do you spew the same type of vitriol when MEN post all the crap they do about WOMEN?

Second, whether I believe in submission or not doesn't negate a lively discussion about it - does it?

Third, if others don't see anything wrong with the concept of submission, why do you have an issue with me NOT prescribing to it - isn't it my choice - just as it is the choice of women to choose to submit or not?

Fourth, instead of asking ME to define what submission is - why don't YOU define what submission is not, because some men seem to be confused?

Fifth, ideas can be life-changing. Sometimes all you need to open the door is just one more good idea.

I usually don't spare men with foolish opinions and same with women
Go through my posts,I don't run with a crowd,I hold my opinions even if I am the only one with it

You are the one making a case against submission not I so I don't have to define submission,you do
You owe it to your audience to define what you mean by submission ,the basis of your argument and this is the 4th page and you still haven't done so
That ought to be the first thing to give your points legitimacy ,so what is submission to you?
That is where you ought to start

In research papers you don't jump unto a subject discussion and conclusion and recommendations without an introduction,defining the subject of discourse.You haven't done that
It is expedient that you do so,that will then become the basis of your discussion

Babymama1: I am only writing this for the sake of the young impressionable ladies reading useless articles such as the original post here and using it as a basis to form opinions.
In every group,every association,every union and every kingdom there is an order and a chain of command
No matter how much we fight it,for the smooth running of any organization there must be a hierarchy.
The animal kingdom with lesser brain development recognize that and so do humans
There cannot be two CEOs in an office or two medical directors or two chancellors in a university
There is always one and the other is a deputy.
You go to work and submit to authority but you won't do same in your home.

The writer is interchanging the word abuse with the concept of submission and that is a dangerous lesson to teach young girls.
Submission and abuse are two very different topics

Submission is a biblical principle
It is meant to install order in the home
The hierarchy is the man,the woman then the children
Just like the kids cannot rise and rule the home without chaos,the woman cannot take over either.the home will be a dysfunctional one

Personally I have no problems submitting to my own husband
It is not always my first choice but it is the right thing
For instance I prefer to go to a nigerian church
He doesn't ,I found one I liked ,he refused to follow us
I succumbed to follow him to the one he prefers
That doesn't make me weak,I did the proper thing
Of what purpose will it serve that I allow place of worship to cause a division just because I want to prove a point
To whom and to what gain?
What will that teach the children?

Unless you marry an unreasonable fool then you will question submission
I married a very intelligent man with the gift of wisdom
I am confident he loves me and the children and would not harm us
All his thoughts towards us are of good
I am not controlled by him,I have a mind of my own and can make my own decisions but where there is a conflict in opinion regarding family issues, and I have made my case and he insists,his opinion will always trump mine
And I have no problems with that at all
I choose to follow that order
He is the a bishop of our home and I respect his authority.There is a biblical covering to that which I shall not violate.

My advice to the young ladies
Find a good man,most especially one who loves God and submits to the authority of God
YOu will have no problems submitting to a man that submits to God.
A man who submits to God will value you and respect you.
And steer clear from advice such as the OP
She is a single lady
When she marries and has put in some years under her belt then she has the impetus to speak on the subject
She is not yet qualified
Listen to what works
A wise woman builds her home with her own hands
A foolish woman tears it down

When another poster asked if my boyfriend/husband was cheating on me...I answered:

"Not to my knowledge. But if I find out...his azz is grass. I don't tolerate cheating."

I wouldn't mow down a cheating boyfriend but I sure as hell would mow down a cheating husband.

Never ASSume...ASK.

Thank you!

zboyd:



When another poster asked if my boyfriend/husband was cheating on me...I answered:

"Not to my knowledge. But if I find out...his azz is grass. I don't tolerate cheating."

I wouldn't mow down a cheating boyfriend but I sure as hell would mow down a cheating husband.

Never ASSume...ASK.

Thank you!

I fail to see what prompted this response from you quoting my post
I don't make the connection
What does a cheating husband or BF have to do with the topic of submission?
Does the conception of submission to you mean,being with a cheating partner
Now you see why I asked you to define submission before progressing so we don't chase the wind

donpeey22: Some people have asked the question 'why do men cheat?' without digging deep to find out the real 'why'. We all believe in the mantra that 'men are polygamous in nature'. Agreed that there are men who cheat just because of lust, but there is more to men's cheating than meet the eyes. Some men are only 'forming' macho over their wives so as to not be seen by our patriarchal society as being sissies, while deep down they crave a controlling woman, this is one reason why some of them keep mistresses who controls them even while they are married. This may sound weird, but it takes an open minded person to understand this fact. This is in support of my earlier post that whoever that's better suited should take the lead in a relationship regardless of the gender, as that would ensure a more peaceful marriage and a better society.

You know what?

I have to admit that there is definitely some truth to this.

I am about to drive now,will be back in an hour or two
I promise to respond because this is a topic dear to my heart as a marriage advocate who believes in the hierarchy in the home and also one who believes that a woman should not be abused in the relationship and I hope to do justice to it if only to help the young girls reading.
Fire on

eighTHREAD: the more you argue, the more you expose how disastrous you are going to end. @bolded you want them to ignore status quo which was thesame mistake lucifer made in heaven thereby tarnishing the peace the universe enjoyed simply because he thought he could raise his throne above God's own throne. I commend those who have pointed it out that Feminism is satanic cos from your point of argument, you want women to usurp man's authority like the devil tried which will only lead to disaster. Why not stop being submissive to your boss at work and see where that leads you.

First, I'm not arguing - in fact I'm not even heated. This is a topic of discussion - not a civil war - you're the one standing on your hind legs howling at the moon - not me.

Second, unless you can see into the future, you don't know HOW I'm going to end.

Third, how can an ideology aimed at defining, establishing, and defending a state of equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women be considered "satanic"?

Fourth, Bosses aren't Husbands.

One thing about Oprah...she has been VERY open about her personal struggles in life...such as being molested by 3 family members, being a rebellious, promiscuous teenager, becoming pregnant at fourteen, begging a man on her knees to not break up with her, weight struggles, not having kids because she didn't think she would be a good mother, due to her troubled background, etc.

Oahray: yeah yeah... You'd like to believe you are the only human who thinks for herself. How about a nice round of applause for your intellect? I wonder how my sarcasm managed to fly over your head.

After you copied and pasted questions from another mind that fits your ideology (so much for thinking for yourself), and I answered them, did you find any meaningful objection? Nah, all you did was spam the thread with the same argument that you think for yourself. Since when did that become the bone of contention?

I simply said you are feminist, and you are yet to deny or accept it. All you did was attempt another strawman. Don't tell me you are ashamed of being feminist.

You believe submission can only mean being a thoughtless female robot controlled by a man. I believe submission encompasses something different and can even accommodate mutual respect. How come I'm the narrow-minded one?

Stop the self-deception, for your own sake.

If you had been following my posts, I stated more than once that I am not a follow-follow type of woman.

I have no need to follow the ideology of some white women unhappy with their lot with white men (Feminism)...because that's where the concept started...with middle-class white women who wanted a life outside of being a housewife and mother and their husbands wouldn't allow them to.

Therefore, I am not a feminist.

I follow ZBoydology - I think for myself.

If you believe "submission encompasses something different and can even accommodate mutual respect"...then why not spread the word because some people are obviously confused.

Btw...your nastiness DIDN'T fly over my head...and is duly noted.

One other thing...why are you getting all heated over a discussion of "submission"?

Very curious.

Anyways...thanks for your response.

zboyd:

If you had been following my posts, I stated more than once that I am not a follow-follow type of woman.

I have no need to follow the ideology of some white women unhappy with their lot with white men (Feminism)...because that's where the concept started...with middle-class white women who wanted a life outside of being a housewife and mother and their husbands wouldn't allow them to.

Therefore, I am not a feminist.

I follow ZBoydology - I think for myself.

If you believe "submission encompasses something different and can even accommodate mutual respect"...then why not spread the word because some people are obviously confused.

Btw...your nastiness DIDN'T fly over my head...and is duly noted.

One other thing...why are you getting all heated over a discussion of "submission"?

Very curious.

Anyways...thanks for your response.

I ask again
What is your definition of submission
You started this discussion and owe us that explanation to make this clearer to the readers
Why are you evading that question and wanting everyone else to answer it when the thread you started is against submission of wives to their husbands.
Until you answer that all important question clearly, you will keep paddling in circles

ogawisdom: A woman was created for a man and from a man her submission to a man is a divine injuction. God had neva intended to create a woman until he noticed dt d man he created was alone .
Everything abt d life of a woman depends on a man.
Nb this applies 100percent to christians n d bible formed d basis of this response

So because she was created from a man as you say she should submit? Since a man was created from the sand should he submit to the sand? Why not both of them submit to their creator?

By the way I am not saying its right or wrong but I am convinced that the bible does not base submission on your response at all but on abilities and complimentary strength of the 2. Whether time erosion and modernization has affected that is a other topic completely.

Also I think this is a weakest arguement to be made for submission, especially considering God's given gift for each individual to have their own WILL.

Just also a clarification of you first sentence,
I am of the belief the a woman was brought out of a man not created as she already existed, in the created man.

Check this scripture: Genesis 1:26-27 NIV
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 26 [a] So God created mankind in his own image,

27 in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

There is a school of thought that say God created a haemephrodite, first not a male as popular believes. See verse 27 above.

Ok, done with the scripture

Babymama1:

Remember you came off touting this post as a pastoral opinion to give it legitimacy
Nobody who believes in the Bible will question a Biblical order by calling it some ancient order that is irrelevant today
He is not thinking outside the box,he is giving an unbiblical opinion while calling himself a reverend and someone ought to call him out on it.
Rev King was also a reverend

First, I didn't "tout" anything, as a "pastoral opinion" to give anything "legitimacy". Some pastors are indeed the Bible on many things, especially the concept of submission - a concept that seems to favor - not women - and makes some women targets of abuse.

Second, if God didn't want His children to question - why give them brains to think? Why go to Bible Study? Why attend Seminary?

Third, the concept of submission, as laid out in the Bible IS ancient. The question is...Is it still applicable today, as it was over 2000 years ago, originating from a society that treated women like second-class citizens...or worse?

Fourth, when Pastor T.D. Jakes reversed his teaching of women staying and praying in abusive marriages, hoping their husbands would change, he was thinking out of the religious box, by recognizing that some Christian men abuse and twist the concept of submission and women suffered from it.

Fifth, some pastors/reverends - American and Nigerian should be called out on their questionable teachings and activities too.

Sixth, King was indeed a reverend...and...also an adulterer - a serial one.

zboyd:

First, I didn't "tout" anything, as a "pastoral opinion" to give anything "legitimacy". Some pastors are indeed the Bible on many things, especially the concept of submission - a concept that seems to favor - not women - and makes some women targets of abuse.

Second, if God didn't want His children to question - why give them brains to think? Why go to Bible Study? Why attend Seminary?

Third, the concept of submission, as laid out in the Bible IS ancient. The question is...Is it still applicable today, as it was over 2000 years ago, originating from a society that treated women like second-class citizens...or worse?

Fourth, when Pastor T.D. Jakes reversed his teaching of women staying and praying in abusive marriages, hoping their husbands would change, he was thinking out of the religious box, by recognizing that some Christian men abuse and twist the concept of submission and women suffered from it.

Fifth, some pastors/reverends - American and Nigerian should be called out on their questionable teachings and activities too.

Sixth, King was indeed a reverend...and...also an adulterer - a serial one.

Here you are going off tangent again and putting everything into this pot
Do you want to talk about submission,your definition of submission,the biblical definition of submission or what you feel people define submission to be?
Which one is it?
You are yet to define submission and only interested in hearing your own voice so there is no point continuing this discussion with you
When you are ready,I shall return

But just answering the question posed by your title
The concept of submission has absolutely nothing to do with a woman's existence or the improvement of it so the title in itself makes no sense.
A more appropriate heading based on your posts so far would be " Is Submission still a necessary injunction today for the modern Christian woman".That is how I would have put it.
Any way

zboyd: For all those men and women that believe that a woman must submit to her husband and allow him to lead her, could you please answer the following questions:

For The Men:

1. Why do you believe submission is the recipe for long-term recipe success?
2. What is it you believe to be the key benefits of submitting for the female?
3. What does submitting to her husband bring to the woman and her life?
4. Why do some men label a woman a 'Single, Bitter Man-Hating Lesbian' when she shows she has a mind of her own, and will not hesitate to criticize negative, male attitudes and behaviors toward women, and refuse to submit to male authority?
5. Why do some men view a non-submissive woman as an attack on their manhood and pride?
6. Why do some men abuse and cheat on women who are totally and biblically submissive to them?
7. How would you feel if a woman leaves you, taking the kid/s with her, because she is fed up with your heavy-handed, domineering, controlling, dictorial, abusive, power-drunk ways - all in the name of "Woman, you must submit, because the Bible said so!"?
8. Why do some single men think women should categorically submit to men?
9. Why do some men physically threaten, physically abuse, threaten to take the children away and/or leave women who don't submit to them?
10. Why do some men choose to ignore the whole concept of submission, preferring instead to work together with their women to do whatever is necessary to benefit the household as a whole, rather than adopting a "What I say goes!" mentality, and in return reap the benefits of a happy home and happy children?

For The Women:

1. Why would a woman, in 2014, do anything in her life that was mandated and written by control freak men thousands of years ago, when women couldn't work, read, write, travel alone, own property, inherit property or money, vote, or even decide what to cook for dinner, unless their husband was involved?
2. Why would a strong, educated, loving woman of strength and character allow a man to dictate how she dresses, forbid her to wear makeup, ban her from socializing with friends, refuse her to work outside the home, further her education, take the money she works hard for, and demand she 'service' him whenever he pleases?
3. If you had a submissive relationship in the past but no longer find value in it - please explain what happened, and how have your views on submission have changed?
4. If you had a past submissive relationship and hated it, why are you now so much happier with a man who doesn't subscribe to the concept of submission?
5. Why do some women believe wifely submission means 'dumbing themselves down' to assuage men's fragile egos?
6. Why haven't smart, intelligent women discovered that men who demand women to subjugate themselves to them unconditionally tend to be those that lack confidence, are unsure of their se*ual prowess or physical attractiveness, or that feel they are lacking in some way and can't compete in the dating arena?
7. Why is it that smart, intelligent women haven't realized that a confident, self-assured man does not need or want a woman to submit or subjugate herself to him, because he is openly proud of her, acknowledges her skills and strengths, as she acknowledges his own skills and strengths, and embraces her as his equal partner?
8. Why is it that some women do not realize that a penis gives men no special powers, no increased abilities, no more knowledge or experience, doesn't make them smarter, better, faster or more superior, and does not entitle them to special privileges or rights, just because they're men, and, therefore, shouldn't be worshipped as demi-gods?
9. Why is it that some women don't realize that wifely submission is like a spreading cancer that is capable of destroying a woman's self-confidence and independent mind?
10. As a woman, are you willing to surrender your power and self to the control of men unconditionally, risking damage and possible destruction to the essence of your spirit, the very thing that makes you the strong, confident woman that you are?

Reference: "The New Christian Marriage" by Reverend Ayodele Johnson, Phd.

I notice you are angry. Yeah. Let us leave bible and religion out of this. It is like this, all men (including me) love submission and the power/ego trip. It is our like and will. You can't change another person however you wish or want them to be like you. It is why we are individuals. You don't call a lion evil for eating meat because that is what it likes. If you want to join in the meal, you are free else go and eat herbs.

I always tell ladies that a man's companionship/love/or man's care is not for everybody.
If you know you can tolerate or keep men and their behaviours, then abstain from any relationship and be by your family members only.

What I don't understand is how a person especially woman should be telling men how to live our live. If you can't be in marriage/frienship with us just take a walk after all there is nothing to gain as you said

elipheleh:

I notice you are angry. Yeah. Let us leave bible and religion out of this. It is like this, all men (including me) love submission and the power/ego trip. It is our like and will. You can't change another person however you wish or want them to be like you. It is why we are individuals. You don't call a lion evil for eating meat because that is what it likes. If you want to join in the meal, you are free else go and eat herbs.

I always tell ladies that a man's companionship/love/or man's care is not for everybody.
If you know you can tolerate or keep men and their behaviours, then abstain from any relationship and be by your family members only.

What I don't understand is how a person especially woman should be telling men how to live our live. If you can't be in marriage/frienship with us just take a walk after all there is nothing to gain as you said

I had a thread sadly that was mutilated by the nairaland tsunami
There are rules for marriage for both parties
You have no choice but to play by those rules if you want to be married and stay married and be happy in marriage
You can't come in and hope to stay with a single's mindset and make it work
It doesn't work that way,you will not be happy by so doing ,both male and female
The good thing is that marriage is not by force
One can choose to be single and it is their prerogative but the moment you choose to be married,you have introduced a new concept into your life with its own rules which you must live by
The moment you have children,those rules become even more complex since another mix has been added in
If anyone doesn't want any of those " inconveniences", stay single
Simple
What I hate is people coming online to poison the minds of younger girls based on some of their bad experiences and some "new found methodology" and they parrot it as some rule for 2014.
IMHO no unmarried person is qualified to tutor anyone on marriage just like I won't receive marriage counsel from a serial divorcee
Let the person go and marry first and try out those their concepts ,get some years under their belt then come and tell us how it went

elipheleh:

I notice you are angry. Yeah. Let us leave bible and religion out of this. It is like this, all men (including me) love submission and the power/ego trip. It is our like and will. You can't change another person however you wish or want them to be like you. It is why we are individuals. You don't call a lion evil for eating meat because that is what it likes. If you want to join in the meal, you are free else go and eat herbs.

I always tell ladies that a man's companionship/love/or man's care is not for everybody.
If you know you can tolerate or keep men and their behaviours, then abstain from any relationship and be by your family members only.

What I don't understand is how a person especially woman should be telling men how to live our live. If you can't be in marriage/frienship with us just take a walk after all there is nothing to gain as you said

I like your response very honest and not hypocritical. This to me says it all and I believe that even God knew this and recognised it is a flaw hence the instruction for women to submit in order to create harmony recognising the durability and strength of women to do so, in the absence of the EGO.

Having said that not all men are like that, environment and upbringing plays a bigger role. Other manreally find no joy in leading and have a follow, follow women, they want their woman to be in charge and be counted. I really believe that everyone can find their mate they must just not be in a rush to tie themselves down with the wrong partner. Each one to his own.

gensteejay: I hope some naïve nairalanders won't follow the advice of these agents of darkness.

Bros allow them to follow. Shey na here we dey. Na them alone go waka go, then waka come back.....After all are we not the men that all women soo much desire and hinge their hopes upon. When it comes to marriage we dictate the tone else the women should remain in their parents' house. There are rules. He who desires a job doesn't go questioning the interviewer's mode of screening. You are free to create your own company, in this case (lesbianism, be with your fellow women, not that I am preaching lesbianism afterall as a religious fellow I might be liable to hell fire .LOL , Just my personal belief)....

I know where women hold power over me and (although it pains me) I play by their rules in those circumstances and I don't go about murmuring.

bluivy:

There is a school of thought that say God created a haemephrodite, first not a male as popular believes. See verse 27 above.

Wetin I no go hear.

Any links for this so I can read more?
#peeps be accusing God of things unimaginable

Babymama1:

I usually don't spare men with foolish opinions and same with women
Go through my posts,I don't run with a crowd,I hold my opinions even if I am the only one with it

You are the one making a case against submission not I so I don't have to define submission,you do
You owe it to your audience to define what you mean by submission ,the basis of your argument and this is the 4th page and you still haven't done so
That ought to be the first thing to give your points legitimacy ,so what is submission to you?
That is where you ought to start

In research papers you don't jump unto a subject discussion and conclusion and recommendations without an introduction,defining the subject of discourse.You haven't done that
It is expedient that you do so,that will then become the basis of your discussion

First, those who deem others' opinions as foolish are not open to any other opinions but their own. You can discuss (argue) with them until the cows come home, and they will still deem your opinions foolish.

Second, as a Southern Baptist, do you actually think I don't know what submission is?

Submission, in the case of women is Male Domination, pure and simple.

How could it not be - seeing where the Bible originated from?

Men rule - women follow - no arguments.

Christian women, over here, are given mixed messages....

...get an education / don't get too educated or no man will want to marry you

...be successful / don't be too successful, because men are intimidated by successful women and you might end up a spinster

...be independent / don't be too independent, because men don't like independent women

...speak up for yourself / don't talk back

...think for yourself / don't challenge a man's opinions

...make your own money / don't make too much money, because men have a problem with wives who make more money than they do

...embrace your se*xuality / don't act like you enjoy intimacy too much, because men will think you're loose

...be active in the church / never aspire to preach, teach or lead, because those are men's roles, and women are not to rule over or teach men

...make your own decisions / husbands must lead, guide and teach their wives...

and so on and so forth.

Men are not magically made into leaders full of wisdom at the drop of a hat.

Mutual submission, though clearly defined in the Bible, is conveniently ignored by men with control freak tendencies.

Relationships built on the foundation of one partner ruling over another is a relationship that will most likely always have an uneven and unhealthy existence.

But the relationship that’s built on a solid foundation of equality and mutual respect between partners is a relationship that has the potential to be both healthy and happy for a very long time.

Babymama1:

I fail to see what prompted this response from you quoting my post
I don't make the connection
What does a cheating husband or BF have to do with the topic of submission?
Does the conception of submission to you mean,being with a cheating partner
Now you see why I asked you to define submission before progressing so we don't chase the wind

You said...

"...And steer clear from advice such as the OP
She is a single lady
When she marries and has put in some years under her belt then she has the impetus to speak on the subject
She is not yet qualified"

I'm a Mrs. with 4 kiddos...3 girls and 1 boy...married 21 years.

Like I said...ASK..don't ASSume.

I'm usually not in the habit of putting my personal business out over the internet, but I made an exception, in this case.

Babymama1:

Here you are going off tangent again and putting everything into this pot
Do you want to talk about submission,your definition of submission,the biblical definition of submission or what you feel people define submission to be?
Which one is it?
You are yet to define submission and only interested in hearing your own voice so there is no point continuing this discussion with you
When you are ready,I shall return

But just answering the question posed by your title
The concept of submission has absolutely nothing to do with a woman's existence or the improvement of it so the title in itself makes no sense.
A more appropriate heading based on your posts so far would be " Is Submission still a necessary injunction today for the modern Christian woman".That is how I would have put it.
Any way

I have no right to change the title of an author's work.

zboyd:


Christian women, over here, are given mixed messages....

...get an education / don't get too educated or no man will want to marry you

...be successful / don't be too successful, because men are intimidated by successful women and you might end up a spinster

...be independent / don't be too independent, because men don't like independent women

...speak up for yourself / don't talk back

...think for yourself / don't challenge a man's opinions

...make your own money / don't make too much money, because men have a problem with wives who make more money than they do

...embrace your se*xuality / don't act like you enjoy intimacy too much, because men will think you're loose

...be active in the church / never aspire to preach, teach or lead, because those are men's roles, and women are not to rule over or teach men

...make your own decisions / husbands must lead, guide and teach their wives...

and so on and so forth.

All your observations are correct. Now let me ask you, Are you angry that all men behave like that? Or is there a brother who is giving you his conditions for long term marriage or what? I think people should stop trying to make people unlike what they like as long as they are not forcing themselves on you. ..It always goes like this, a young girl sees a fine young man she likes and wishes to marry; she goes along and make friends but notice that that guy has a way of life and she starts being pissed whereas she could easily walk away..

If a particular guy (or all men folks for that matter) doesn't want to be serious with an impending partner because she makes more money or successful-women-phobia, or fear of women who make more money, who are you to dictate for him? Is it not his loss (if you so much believe that a successful woman could have made his life so much better)?

For example , Now let me tell you this just as an example, we know women are not all enthusiastic about one night stands. In fact most women I have approached and been upfront about a one-night stand turned me down immediately and I don't hate them for that nor do I start plotting evil against those women. Afterall it is their body and they have right to do what they want. Just for this example I have approached 139 women since the last two years solely for one night stand, and only 3 responded as I hoped. That's a poor ratio. Yeah. But does that make all women bad or justify my accusing women why they chose not to have one night stand generally?
NO!

elipheleh:

All your observations are correct. Now let me ask you, Are you angry that all men behave like that? Or is there a brother who is giving you his conditions for long term marriage or what? I think people should stop trying to make people unlike what they like as long as they are not forcing themselves on you. ..It always goes like this, a young girl sees a fine young man she likes and wishes to marry; she goes along and make friends but notice that that guy has a way of life and she starts being pissed whereas she could easily walk away..

If a particular guy (or all men folks for that matter) doesn't want to be serious with an impending partner because she makes more money or successful-women-phobia, or fear of women who make more money, who are you to dictate for him? Is it not his loss (if you so much believe that a successful woman could have made his life so much better)?

For example , Now let me tell you this, we know women are not all enthusiastic about one night stands. In fact most women I have approached and been upfront about a one-night stand turned me down and I don't hate them for that nor do I start plotting evil against those women. Afterall it is their body and they have right to do what they want. Just for this example I have approached 139 women since the last two years solely for one night stand, and only 3 responded as I hoped. That is a poor ration. Does that make all women bad or justify anger towards those that turned me down?
NO!

First, I'm NOT angry, but there has been a lot of anger, nastiness and name-calling directed toward me.

Second, you can lead a horse to the river but you can't make him drink from the river.

Third, what I related is what I was taught in the Southern Baptist Church.

Fourth, I restate again that some of the unhappiest women I've met are Christian women.

Fifth, if submission was so grand, then, why are so many women I meet who subscribe to it unhappy...and you can see it on their faces?

Some things you can't fake.

Btw...only the weak-minded and gullible allow themselves to be swayed by other people's beliefs and opinions.

elipheleh:

All your observations are correct. Now let me ask you, Are you angry that all men behave like that? Or is there a brother who is giving you his conditions for long term marriage or what? I think people should stop trying to make people unlike what they like as long as they are not forcing themselves on you. ..It always goes like this, a young girl sees a fine young man she likes and wishes to marry; she goes along and make friends but notice that that guy has a way of life and she starts being pissed whereas she could easily walk away..

If a particular guy (or all men folks for that matter) doesn't want to be serious with an impending partner because she makes more money or successful-women-phobia, or fear of women who make more money, who are you to dictate for him? Is it not his loss (if you so much believe that a successful woman could have made his life so much better)?

For example , Now let me tell you this, we know women are not all enthusiastic about one night stands. In fact most women I have approached and been upfront about a one-night stand turned me down immediately and I don't hate them for that nor do I start plotting evil against those women. Afterall it is their body and they have right to do what they want. Just for this example I have approached 139 women since the last two years solely for one night stand, and only 3 responded as I hoped. That's a poor ratio. Yeah. But does that make all women bad or justify my accusing women why they chose not to have one night stand generally?
NO!

This your one night stand sumtin is another thread altogether

Babymama1:

This your one night stand sumtin is another thread altogether

Yeah I know, I just mentioned it so as to prove a point that people cannot always have what they think they want. One can only build up his/her disappointment and frustration thresh hold by pressing forward at all cost instead of directing one's anger at other human beings' choice.

zboyd:

First, I'm NOT angry, but there has been a lot of anger, nastiness and name-calling directed toward me.

Second, you can lead a horse to the river but you can't make him drink from the river.

Third, what I related is what I was taught in the Southern Baptist Church.

Fourth, I restate again that some of the unhappiest women I've met are Christian women.

Fifth, if submission was so grand, then, why are so many women I meet who subscribe to it unhappy...and you can see it on their faces?

Some things you can't fake.

Btw...only the weak-minded and gullible allow themselves to be swayed by other people's beliefs and opinions.

I like your response and it is good to know that you are not angry. Sad so many people tried to rub this name-calling towards you.
But in all honesty I think christian women are not the unhappiest compared to Islamic countries that practically rub women of their rights even in public laws. I could be wrong you know I am not a woman, just saying

And it is good to be a strong-minded individual and know what you want. And the truly mighty people don't try to rub others of their individual choice. Good luck to all strong women and men

elipheleh:

I like your response and it is good to know that you are not angry. Sad so many people tried to rub this name-calling towards you.
But in all honesty I think christian women are not the unhappiest compared to Islamic countries that practically rub women of their rights even in public laws. I could be wrong you know I am not a woman, just saying

And it is good to be a strong-minded individual and know what you want. And the truly mighty people don't try to rub others of their individual choice. Good luck to all strong women and men

I hear you.

I haven't met any Islamic women, personally, over here, but there are several living here.

The least happiest people by survey
Unmarried ,very educated women over 40

Female
42 years old
Unmarried (and no children)
Household income under $100,000
In a professional position (doctor, lawyer, etc.)

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/high-octane-women/201109/meet-the-least-happy-people-in-america

BluIvy:

So because she was created from a man as you say she should submit? Since a man was created from the sand should he submit to the sand? Why not both of them submit to their creator?

By the way I am not saying its right or wrong but I am convinced that the bible does not base submission on your response at all but on abilities and complimentary strength of the 2. Whether time erosion and modernization has affected that is a other topic completely.

Also I think this is a weakest arguement to be made for submission, especially considering God's given gift for each individual to have their own WILL.

Just also a clarification of you first sentence,
I am of the belief the a woman was brought out of a man not created as she already existed, in the created man.

Check this scripture: Genesis 1:26-27 NIV
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 26 [a] So God created mankind in his own image,

27 in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

There is a school of thought that say God created a haemephrodite, first not a male as popular believes. See verse 27 above.

Ok, done with the scripture

Comprehension is fast becoming a national issue. Read my post again n u ll see wat I base submission on, anyway let me repeat myself. A woman must submit to her husband bc it is a divine injunction/ instruction frm God. U see it doesn't matter whether d woman is d president n d husband a shoe shiner, d woman must still submit to him at home jst bc God said she shld. Submission to a husband is nt negotiable in a christian marriage.
U need to work on ur comprehension ability

zboyd:

First, I'm not arguing - in fact I'm not even heated. This is a topic of discussion - not a civil war - you're the one standing on your hind legs howling at the moon - not me.

Second, unless you can see into the future, you don't know HOW I'm going to end.

Third, how can an ideology aimed at defining, establishing, and defending a state of equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women be considered "satanic"?

Fourth, Bosses aren't Husbands.

I'll ignore the first paragraph cos it shows how well you can't hold a meaningful discussion without stylishly insulting your counterpart. 2nd paragraph...futures are foreseen based on present actions. What you do today determines your tomorrow and you my friend are most likely to end up a divorcee or a single mother so long you are eager to throw away the order of submission unless you marry a wussy. 3rd paragraph...the bible which contains the word of God made clear demarcations on how marriage, an institution he formed should be. It is only satanic for some elements to want to topple that saying it's archaic. If you don't believe in submission then don't get married, you can get a sperm donor if you want children. As for the case of equal political, economic and social rights bla...bla...bla...they have been achieved through gender equality, what you are aiming for now is distruption of orderliness and unity. FYI, bosses and husband have something in common- they are heads. You disobey the head in a wrong manner, you get punished in ways soothing.

zboyd:

If you had been following my posts, I stated more than once that I am not a follow-follow type of woman.

I have no need to follow the ideology of some white women unhappy with their lot with white men (Feminism)...because that's where the concept started...with middle-class white women who wanted a life outside of being a housewife and mother and their husbands wouldn't allow them to.

Therefore, I am not a feminist.

I follow ZBoydology - I think for myself.

If you believe "submission encompasses something different and can even accommodate mutual respect"...then why not spread the word because some people are obviously confused.

Btw...your nastiness DIDN'T fly over my head...and is duly noted.

One other thing...why are you getting all heated over a discussion of "submission"?

Very curious.

Anyways...thanks for your response.

You're utterly confused. You don't even know what you want or what you even stand for. Have been laughing at the foolishness being exhibited by you all over the forum. If I may ask, what do you really want?