cloudstar:

I didn't intend to derail, I was responding to your statement. It's hard to be a Muslim and not identify with Arab culture - that was my point

Ok but you are wrong.

vedaxcool:

How a reasonable and sensible christian reacted on reading the post;

Bros, can't you answer a simple question. How old was Aisha when Mohammad married her and slept with her?

cloudstar:

Bros, can't you answer a simple question. How old was Aisha when Mohammad married her and slept with her?

I won't descend to your level

vedaxcool:

How a reasonable and sensible christian reacted on reading the post;

I ask you a simple question, is the man compare to muhammad?

malvisguy212: I ask you a simple question, is the man compare to muhammad?

And I responded to you, showing you how sensible and reasonable people think.

vedaxcool:

And I responded to you, showing you how sensible and reasonable people think.

the op ask, "is it true muhammad marry 6years old aisha?" You did not answer, instead you are tryin to say "even my prophet did it, a christian brother do the same thing," was it not what you are tryin to say?

Is the man now compare to muhammad?

AlBaqir: "AN OUTCRY - that the holy prophet married A'isha at the age of six and consummate the wedding at the age of nine. (Sahih Bukhari) A minor

Some of this so-called 'authentic hadith' even quoted A'isha or her cousin Urwa that she was a minor who was still playing with doll when she married the holy prophet of Islam (peace be on him and his family). And in most cases she will sleep on the floor whilst playing with her doll.

Historical Fallacy!
Abubakr (A'isha's father) had Asma as his first child who was born 27years before Hijra. Aisha was the last born and history had it she was 10years younger to her eldest sister, Asma. (Sirah Ibn Hisham, Ibn Sa'd 'Tabaqat, Tarikh al-Tabari et al)

Asma died at the age of 100years in the 73rd year of Hijra. Meaning she was truly 27+years in the 1st year of Hijra. Same History however had it A'isha married the Prophet in the 2nd year of Hijra.

If Asma was 27years in the 1st year of Hijra, and was 10years older than Aisha and then A'isha got married to the holy prophet in the 2nd year of Hijra, how old was A'isha? 18years Old.

When muslims spend hours, days, months, years, and do countless 'researches', in order to defend the past deeds of their prophet, that is to tell an average person that that prophet has a case to answer or his ways were not upright.

cloudstar:

Here is a Shiite view of the matter. He is claiming that Al-Bukhari is wrong. Based on his Historic calculation, Aisha was 18. Unfortunately for him, he has no early Islamic source to back him up . If you can provide an earlier account before Bukhari that claimed Aisha was 18; then we can take you seriously. However, your opinion doesn't change the view of nearly 90% of all Muslim jurisprudence on this matter

If you check the page of your history well, you will find out that Ibn Hisham and Ibn Sa'd were first Islamic historian. al-Bukhari, who was not an historian per se but a Muhadith (collector of hadith), came later. So I wonder what was Bukhari's inference with Historical record and calculation.

There are lots of Historical references in Sahih al-Bukhari that are mathematically wrong.

Ibn Hisham (d. 212AH)
Ibn Sa'd (Birth 168AH - d. 230AH)

Al-Bukhari (birth 194AH - d. 256AH)

Interestingly ALL of them were SUNNI not SHIA.

Ibn Hisham in his ancient "Sirat Rasul" and Ibn Sa'd in his "Tabaqat al-kubra", maintained the age of Aisha mathematically to be 18 in 2nd Hijra. Later Historian like Tabari, Baladhuri, Ibn Athir et al also maintained the same.

Bukhari in his collection of hadith, Jami Sahih claimed it to be 6. Apart from his book Sahih, Bukhari too wrote another Historical book which does not politically into limelight as Jami sahih. Unfortunately, there are lots of contradictory reports between the two books of the same author.

Here's a modern superweight Salafi Scholar's opinion about Sahih al-Bukhari:
'Allamah al-Albani writes:

"But, whoever is in doubt concerning the verdicts I have given concerning some hadith (in Sahih al-Bukhari), let him refer to Fath al-Bari, and he will find there lots and lots of things (in Sahih al-Bukhari) which have been criticized by al-Hafiz Ahmad b. Hajar al-Asqalani, who is rightly named the Amir al-Muminin in Hadith, and whom I believe - and I suppose that anyone who has this knowledge (i.e science of hadith) would agree with me - that no woman has ever given birth to anyone like him after him."

~Abu 'Abd al-Rahman Muhammad Nasir al-Din b. al-Hajj Nuh b. Tajati b. Adam al-Ashqudi al-Albani, FATAWA (cairo: Maktabah al-Turath al-Islami; 1st edition, 1414H), p. 525.

PLS for the sake of whatever you believe in STOP mentioning Albaqir. You can simply write your cabbage and we shall respond in sha Allah.

malvisguy212: the op ask, "is it true muhammad marry 6years old aisha?" You did not answer, instead you are tryin to say "even my prophet did it, a christian brother do the same thing," was it not what you are tryin to say?

Is the man now compare to muhammad?

I cannot help you think or improve your level of reasoning, trolling my mentions wouldn't change that.

vedaxcool:

I cannot help you think or improve your level of reasoning, trolling my mentions wouldn't change that.

deep inside you, you know the answer.
If the op is lying, you guys will answer the question at first attempt.but beating around the bush show you guys are confused.

AlBaqir:

Its like you are a Yoruba man but slave of the western world just like your ancestors (no offense but reality).

You speak and write English! Na your Yoruba father language be that? Language slavery!

You wear T-shirt and trousers; covered shoe and trainers with socks! Na your father code of dressing be that? Clothing slavery!

Ancient Yoruba used to build their homes with clay soil and paint it with bull-shit (igbe maalu called eboto)! Why did you changed bro?

It is interesting in the Yoruba myth that Oduduwa, Yoruba Adam, migrated from Mecca, an Arab-land, to ile-ife

I can go on and on. Your slavery knows no bound. Just as your ancestors were made slave, you are also into modern slavery.

Islam is a universal religion though started in Arabia. Looking at the structure of the Quran, the golden book talks in a general terms to accommodate mankind of all ages and all nations. The sayings of the prophet of Islam is also the same except in few occasions where he was specific about the Arabs. He had companions from all races - African, Persian, Asian etc. Islam has its own code of conduct while the Arabs has there though people mix it together.

Kindly be a gentleman and stop derailing this thread.

This guy must be a joker

1. My ancestors were never slaves, I can trace my ancestry to the last 5 generations, we have no records of slavery in how household, we never even kept slaves either

2. I speak and write 3 languages, including English and Yoruba
How has expanding your knowledge to learn different languages of the world turned you to a slave
As a Nigerian it is also mandatory to learn English.
Or if I start writing in Yoruba, you would appreciate that?? Would you even understand a thing?
This ur logic jst shows how desperate you are to justify your Arab shiit licking

3. Have you ever seen.me Where did u see me wearing T-shirt, covered shoe??

4. Clay soil?? Since when? most buildings constructed into the 15th century were done with bricks and timber
Huts made of clay are over 1000yrs

5. Oduduwa is not from Mecca, only dummies and muslims propagate that Lamurudu story, it has no single truth

6. Modern slavery you say...I am a proud Yoruba you hear that?
I have nothing to do with slavery, my ancestors were never slaves.
It is you who is a slave, mentally and intellectually imprisoned to Arab nationalism

Any Muslim who is non-Arab follows Arabic laws, he is a slave to the Arabs
And that is why Arabs would treat them like slaves

cloudstar:

Can you provide a historical answer to the poster question?

it is the same historical answer you have gotten times and time again

cloudstar:

Really, let us start by asking why "reasonable" Muslims who have their own culture and lineage decide to name themselves Arabic names.

then lts start to ask reasonable xtians who have their own culture and lineage why they decide to name their children jewish and english names?

The minimum legally approved age of marriage is less than 15 in some countries. Such laws are neither limited to developing countries, nor to state religion. In Europe, for example, [size=15pt]Catholic canon law sets 14 as the minimum age for the marriage of girls,[/size] as does Spain with a legal guardian's permission. In North America, girls can be legally married at age 15 in Mexico. Canada and many states in the USA permit child marriages, with court's permission .
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage

AlBaqir:

Its like you are a Yoruba man but slave of the western world just like your ancestors (no offense but reality).

You speak and write English! Na your Yoruba father language be that? Language slavery!

You wear T-shirt and trousers; covered shoe and trainers with socks! Na your father code of dressing be that? Clothing slavery!

Ancient Yoruba used to build their homes with clay soil and paint it with bull-poo (igbe maalu called eboto)! Why did you changed bro?

It is interesting in the Yoruba myth that Oduduwa, Yoruba Adam, migrated from Mecca, an Arab-land, to ile-ife

I can go on and on. Your slavery knows no bound. Just as your ancestors were made slave, you are also into modern slavery.

Islam is a universal religion though started in Arabia. Looking at the structure of the Quran, the golden book talks in a general terms to accommodate mankind of all ages and all nations. The sayings of the prophet of Islam is also the same except in few occasions where he was specific about the Arabs. He had companions from all races - African, Persian, Asian etc. Islam has its own code of conduct while the Arabs has there though people mix it together.

Kindly be a gentleman and stop derailing this thread.

macof:


This guy must be a joker

1. My ancestors were never slaves, I can trace my ancestry to the last 5 generations, we have no records of slavery in how household, we never even kept slaves either

2. I speak and write 3 languages, including English and Yoruba
How has expanding your knowledge to learn different languages of the world turned you to a slave
As a Nigerian it is also mandatory to learn English.
Or if I start writing in Yoruba, you would appreciate that?? Would you even understand a thing?
This ur logic jst shows how desperate you are to justify your Arab shiit licking

3. Have you ever seen.me Where did u see me wearing T-shirt, covered shoe??

4. Clay soil?? Since when? most buildings constructed into the 15th century were done with bricks and timber
Huts made of clay are over 1000yrs

5. Oduduwa is not from Mecca, only dummies and muslims propagate that Lamurudu story, it has no single truth

6. Modern slavery you say...I am a proud Yoruba you hear that?
I have nothing to do with slavery, my ancestors were never slaves.
It is you who is a slave, mentally and intellectually imprisoned to Arab nationalism

Any Muslim who is non-Arab follows Arabic laws, he is a slave to the Arabs
And that is why Arabs would treat them like slaves

Brother, let the leather heads get back to debating the molestation of girl children, that is their preferred topic and thread and we have been warned to not derail the thread so best we leave. Oil and water don't mix, at least not in my land.

How could he do this?
Every society has its norms.
Every culture has its norms.
If the norm of today society is that a woman should marry at 18,tomorrow it might be 2o even 30.
Does that mean that those who married someone 18 years old many years back are paedophille?
It depends on the norms
Islam does not force you or me to marry at that age.
It has to do with our society.
In some part of Europe,the gypsies marry as early as 6,9,13,they even have their first baby at 12 but no one is talking!!!
U can google.
Some 9 year old looks like 20year old in some other countries.
We are not interested in this arguement.

Buh am sure this won't stop you guys from asking this kwesion all over again

Zeinymira: How could he do this?
Every society has its norms.
Every culture has its norms.
If the norm of today society is that a woman should marry at 18,tomorrow it might be 2o even 30.
Does that mean that those who married someone 18 years old many years back are paedophille?
It depends on the norms
Islam does not force you or me to marry at that age.
It has to do with our society.
In some part of Europe,the gypsies marry as early as 6,9,13,they even have their first baby at 12 but no one is talking!!!
U can google.
Some 9 year old looks like 20year old in some other countries.
We are not interested in this arguement.

Buh am sure this won't stop you guys from asking this kwesion all over again

that's islamophobia for you... what they don't know is that they are rendering their minds dormant because of hatred for a religion that grows without looking behind at them.

Zeinymira: How could he do this?
Every society has its norms.
Every culture has its norms.
If the norm of today society is that a woman should marry at 18,tomorrow it might be 2o even 30.
Does that mean that those who married someone 18 years old many years back are paedophille?
It depends on the norms
Islam does not force you or me to marry at that age.
It has to do with our society.
In some part of Europe,the gypsies marry as early as 6,9,13,they even have their first baby at 12 but no one is talking!!!
U can google.
Some 9 year old looks like 20year old in some other countries.
We are not interested in this arguement.

Buh am sure this won't stop you guys from asking this kwesion all over again

Nice one there sister^
However Its high time we muslims should also drop certain dogmatic believe one of which is the myth that everything recorded by Bukhari is authentic. Only Quran is Authentic and it is the criterion for all other recorded books. Imam Bukhari made a mathematical blunder concerning the age of Aisha. It has been proven above that Aisha was never 6years Old as recorded by Bukhari but 18years Old when her Father requested the holy prophet (peace be on her and his family) to marry her daughter.

AlBaqir:
Imam Bukhari made a mathematical blunder concerning the age of Aisha. It has been proven above that Aisha was never 6years Old as recorded by Bukhari but 18years Old when her Father requested the holy prophet (peace be on her and his family) to marry her daughter.

Imam Bhukari made a mathematical blunder by telling the truth? You cant be serious. The same Imam Bhukari's hadith that is the most authentic, and which most muslims believe\use worldwide, is now a blunder because his writings exposed your prophet as a ped0phile.

So what your are telling us is that we should accept hadith that speaks favourably of your prophet (as authentic) and reject the ones that doesnt speak well of him (as fake). Thats is islamic logic in display.

I'd rather believe the authority of Imam bhukari in islamic jurispundence (as a reliable source of information) than yours.

golpen:

then lts start to ask reasonable xtians who have their own culture and lineage why they decide to name their children jewish and english names?

You stated that Muslims are separate from Arabian culture but just confirmed by turning 360 degrees and mentioning similarities between Christians and the teachings in the Bible. There is no denial that a fair amount of Christians use Biblical names. That is because Christian teachings influence Christians. However, Christians don't dress like 1st century Jews or Christians. Christians don't wear sandals to cross the desert because early Isrealites did it - they use plans and cars .

golpen:

it is the same historical answer you have gotten times and time again

And which historical answer will that be?

AlBaqir:

If you check the page of your history well, you will find out that Ibn Hisham and Ibn Sa'd were first Islamic historian. al-Bukhari, who was not an historian per se but a Muhadith (collector of hadith), came later. So I wonder what was Bukhari's inference with Historical record and calculation.

There are lots of Historical references in Sahih al-Bukhari that are mathematically wrong.

Ibn Hisham (d. 212AH)
Ibn Sa'd (Birth 168AH - d. 230AH)

Al-Bukhari (birth 194AH - d. 256AH)

Interestingly ALL of them were SUNNI not SHIA.

Ibn Hisham in his ancient "Sirat Rasul" and Ibn Sa'd in his "Tabaqat al-kubra", maintained the age of Aisha mathematically to be 18 in 2nd Hijra. Later Historian like Tabari, Baladhuri, Ibn Athir et al also maintained the same.

Bukhari in his collection of hadith, Jami Sahih claimed it to be 6. Apart from his book Sahih, Bukhari too wrote another Historical book which does not politically into limelight as Jami sahih. Unfortunately, there are lots of contradictory reports between the two books of the same author.

Here's a modern superweight Salafi Scholar's opinion about Sahih al-Bukhari:
'Allamah al-Albani writes:

"But, whoever is in doubt concerning the verdicts I have given concerning some hadith (in Sahih al-Bukhari), let him refer to Fath al-Bari, and he will find there lots and lots of things (in Sahih al-Bukhari) which have been criticized by al-Hafiz Ahmad b. Hajar al-Asqalani, who is rightly named the Amir al-Muminin in Hadith, and whom I believe - and I suppose that anyone who has this knowledge (i.e science of hadith) would agree with me - that no woman has ever given birth to anyone like him after him."

~Abu 'Abd al-Rahman Muhammad Nasir al-Din b. al-Hajj Nuh b. Tajati b. Adam al-Ashqudi al-Albani, FATAWA (cairo: Maktabah al-Turath al-Islami; 1st edition, 1414H), p. 525.

PLS for the sake of whatever you believe in STOP mentioning Albaqir. You can simply write your cabbage and we shall respond in sha Allah.

Okay, can you give us Ibn Hisham and Ibn Sa'd account of Aisha age?

vedaxcool:


I won't descend to your level

Thank you, please sit down and keep quiet

AbdH:

Ok but you are wrong.

Please present facts Bros

true2god: Imam Bhukari made a mathematical blunder by telling the truth? You cant be serious. The same Imam Bhukari's hadith that is the most authentic, and which most muslims believe\use worldwide, is now a blunder because his writings exposed your prophet as a ped0phile.

So what your are telling us is that we should accept hadith that speaks favourably of your prophet (as authentic) and reject the ones that doesnt speak well of him (as fake). Thats is islamic logic in display.

I'd rather believe the authority of Imam bhukari in islamic jurispundence (as a reliable source of information) than yours.

Bingo! That's exactly the problem among millions of muslim too. We muslims are programmed to believe in every content of sahih al-Bukhari to the worst extent that we've ignorantly place the book at the same platform with the Quran. The age-long dogma is so serious that even if sahih al-Bukhari blatantly contradict Quran, we will bend Quran to agree with sahih al-Bukhari. If it contradict common sense, we will subject ourselves to accept and never to question any further.

Imagine Quran says its ONLY the criterion in which other book's authenticity are verified yet majority of the muslim believe its a sin to question Imam Bukhari's record!

Imagine Quran and, the prophet and his companions never foretold or approved Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim not to mention of being divine yet it is a sin to question his records!

What a unique programming!!!
www.nairaland.com/1501204/how-true-narrations-sahih-bukhari

This is, again, the testimony of one of the modern programmer

'Allamah al-Albani writes:
"But, whoever is in doubt concerning the verdicts I have given concerning some hadith (in Sahih al-Bukhari), let him refer to Fath al-Bari, and he will find there lots and lots of things (in Sahih al-Bukhari) which have been criticized by al-Hafiz Ahmad b. Hajar al-Asqalani, who is rightly named the Amir al-Muminin in Hadith, and whom I believe - and I suppose that anyone who has this knowledge (i.e science of hadith) would agree with me - that no woman has ever given birth to anyone like him after him."

~Abu 'Abd al-Rahman Muhammad Nasir al-Din b. al-Hajj Nuh b. Tajati b. Adam al-Ashqudi al-Albani, FATAWA (cairo: Maktabah al-Turath al-Islami; 1st edition, 1414H), p. 525.

golpen:

that's islamophobia for you... what they don't know is that they are rendering their minds dormant because of hatred for a religion that grows without looking behind at them.

But we also need to stop feeding their every foolishness, knowing when to ignore them and answer them remains key.

cloudstar:

History no dey lie. Islamic history is clear on this subject. Most Muslims think Mohammad was perfect so if he married a child then it is the right thing to do. Al-Bukhari clearly narrated that Aisha was 6 or 7 when Mohammad married her and was 9 when he slep.t with her.

then the man was heartless!

Zeinymira: How could he do this?
Every society has its norms.
Every culture has its norms.
If the norm of today society is that a woman should marry at 18,tomorrow it might be 2o even 30.
Does that mean that those who married someone 18 years old many years back are paedophille?
It depends on the norms
Islam does not force you or me to marry at that age.
It has to do with our society.
In some part of Europe,the gypsies marry as early as 6,9,13,they even have their first baby at 12 but no one is talking!!!
U can google.
Some 9 year old looks like 20year old in some other countries.
We are not interested in this arguement.

Buh am sure this won't stop you guys from asking this kwesion all over again

that some 9 years old look like 20 years old in some countries?

Bros, are you alright?
Heavenly Father, please show us your mercy!

Haaaaaaaa!

cloudstar:

You stated that Muslims are separate from Arabian culture but just confirmed by turning 360 degrees and mentioning similarities between Christians and the teachings in the Bible. There is no denial that a fair amount of Christians use Biblical names. That is because Christian teachings influence Christians. However, Christians don't dress like 1st century Jews or Christians. Christians don't wear sandals to cross the desert because early Isrealites did it - they use plans and cars .

what is this one sayinni? !

can't you use your senses and see that muslims give names also for the same reasons?

imagine you are tellibg me about the way christians dress as if the flowing gowns of the nuns, the regalia of the bishops and the kotopo cap of the reverends, not to mention the white collar of evangelists are all dressings in your native land.

my friend, you have a problem

golpen:

what is this one sayinni? !

can't you use your senses and see that muslims give names also for the same reasons?

imagine you are tellibg me about the way christians dress as if the flowing gowns of the nuns, the regalia of the bishops and the kotopo cap of the reverends, not to mention the white collar of evangelists are all dressings in your native land.

my friend, you have a problem

I concur @bolded. He get serious one.

noblezone:

that some 9 years old look like 20 years old in some countries?

Bros, are you alright?
Heavenly Father, please show us your mercy!

Haaaaaaaa!

Mtcheeeeew.
All ur special senses am sure are veiled with hatred. Instead of you to look around you,you are here spewing rawbish.
Even around u,u ll see 11year old girl looking very matured.
Islamphobia

U even called me bros. Mtcheeeew. I'm a female abeg since u missed d (f) in all ur rush to spew rawbish
I'm sure some 9 year old are more intelligent than you are.

vedaxcool:
But we also need to stop feeding their every foolishness, knowing when to ignore them and answer them remains key.

eeeeh... is not there faulti! most times when I reply these guys is not because of them. you will discover more people are just readers, they don't post. all these hate views of theirs may affect those ones.

thanks though, your caution is noted sir.