Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,194,651 members, 7,955,363 topics. Date: Sunday, 22 September 2024 at 12:11 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" (83186 Views)
What Does The Bible Say About Tattoos / Body Piercings? / Virgin Mary's Image Seen In Edo At St Benedicts Catholic Church In Ubiaja / What Does The Bible Say About Make-up? (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (31) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by btoks: 9:51pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
Ukutsgp: catholic believe that Mary never hadyour premise of ."what husband and wife live and die without consummating..." doesn't hold at all because one could ask the same question about the virgin birth, miracles etc.this was no ordinary couple. Using your logic, would you agree that Jesus was literally The carpenter's son? - matt13: 55 early church teaching on the brothers and sisters indicate that they were children of Joseph from an earlier marriage thus step siblings of Jesus. 9 Likes |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ukutsgp(m): 10:32pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
btoks: your premise of ."what husband and wife live and die without consummating..." doesn't hold at all because one could ask the same question about the virgin birth, miracles etc.this was no ordinary couple.so what type of couple are are they? pls forget ur early church tradition here. d bible said mary had other children. it is either u will believe d bible or forget it. so where did the bible tells u dat joseph had married before? una dey lie sha. 4 Likes |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ukutsgp(m): 10:36pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
btoks: your premise of ."what husband and wife live and die without consummating..." doesn't hold at all because one could ask the same question about the virgin birth, miracles etc.this was no ordinary couple. |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by btoks: 10:50pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
Ukutsgp: so what type of couple are are they?sola scriptura sentiments.There is a historical basis to whatever you read in the bible, you can't strip this away and think you've got the right interpretation 2000 years after the event. The bible doesn't even tell us what books are in the bible - so your .'where in the bible' question has no validity. Where does the bible say Mary had other children? Re. the couple, it might have occurred to you that they were raising Jesus the 2nd person of the Trinity plus a little point about the virgin birth. I doubt any other couple can claim this. btw you haven't answered whether Jesus was the carpenter's son as per your logic 4 Likes |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ukutsgp(m): 11:08pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
btoks: sola scriptura sentiments.There is a historical basis to whatever you read in the bible, you can't strip this away and think you've got the right interpretation 2000 years after the event. The bible doesn't even tell us what books are in the bible - so your .'where in the bible' question has no validity. Where does the bible say Mary had other children?after d birth of Jesus they had sex and she was blessed with other children. why is dis difficult for u to comprehend? 4 Likes |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ubenedictus(m): 11:19pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: "My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour, for He has been mindful of the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me — holy is His name" (Luke 1:46-49). let me get this straight. So you believe that mary was saved even before the death of Christ? |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by btoks: 11:31pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
Ukutsgp: after d birth of Jesus they had sex and she was blessed with other children. why is dis difficult for u to comprehend?Dude, it does not say this in the bible, this is your own interpretation. I notice you've ignored my points and questions but expect me to comprehend your assertions. Will look forward to your considered response otherwise I'm out, peace. 4 Likes |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ubenedictus(m): 11:32pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU:actually that isn't church tradition. That is simple greek, the word used the is "heo hous" is doesn't mean that anything happened after. If you "bible school" pastor studied a little greek he would have known that much. 1 Like |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by williaam(m): 12:40am On Sep 17, 2014 |
After the disobedience of Adam; all mankind sinned; but Christ was God; who needed a medium through which he can come into the world and start his rescue mission of the human race back to God the father; that was why mary was used; understand that during the period of Christ conception; the jews leaders were already waiting for the prophesy of the filled messiah predicted by prophet isaiah; so all virgin in Israel were scouted an locked in a synagogue; but the project was abandoned; and all of the virgins were chased out from the place; after the incident she was betrothed to Joseph; two months later the angel appeared to her |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ukutsgp(m): 8:19am On Sep 17, 2014 |
btoks: Dude, it does not say this in the bible, this is your own interpretation. I notice you've ignored my points and questions but expect me to comprehend your assertions. Will look forward to your considered response otherwise I'm out, peace.why is it difficult for u to understand the word 'until' from the op's first post. if u understand, u will nt ask me lame question. |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ubenedictus(m): 11:08am On Sep 17, 2014 |
Ukutsgp: why is it difficult for u to understand the word 'until' from the op's first post. if u understand, u will nt ask me lame question. probably because the bible wasn't written in english but in greek. And the greek word for untill doesn't mean d same thing as the english. 1 Like |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by btoks: 11:33am On Sep 17, 2014 |
Ubenedictus:yes o,I've tried to explain in simple English to these guys but been hell bent on sola scriptura 2000 years later they never understand. |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ukutsgp(m): 11:50am On Sep 17, 2014 |
Ubenedictus:probably? u are nt even sure. continue to invent stories. u can tell me that other words agree with english but nt until. u see how myopic u are? 1 Like |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:03pm On Sep 17, 2014 |
btoks: Whenever the church fathers depart from what the apostles recorded in Scriptures who do you think we should obey? |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:05pm On Sep 17, 2014 |
Weah96: The onus is on you to show us where they differ. |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:06pm On Sep 17, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: Yes. |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:10pm On Sep 17, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: That is what the JW's uses to confuse folks. The Bible is clear that Mary sired other children after given birth to Jesus. 1 Like |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ubenedictus(m): 12:24am On Sep 18, 2014 |
btoks: yes o,I've tried to explain in simple English to these guys but been hell bent on sola scriptura 2000 years later they never understand. it is the problem of their pastors. After 6 months bible school they come out and start teachings things they are ignorant of. If they tried to study a little greek in their bible schools we won't be here tying to educate these protestants that in scriptures the greek for untill doesn't imply that anything happened after. 3 Likes |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ubenedictus(m): 12:47am On Sep 18, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU:only the ignorant become confused. Scripture says "study to show thyself approved", all you need to do is study. Check for the greek word for until. I repeat the bible wasn't written in english. |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ubenedictus(m): 12:52am On Sep 18, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: that is interesting.... So i just hope you know that you are agreeing with catholics on that one. That mary was saved by God before the death of christ. Interesting. So how do you think she was saved? |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ubenedictus(m): 1:00am On Sep 18, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: whenever the fathers transmit the apostolic traditions they never contradict scripture. Just as the words of the apostles can't contradict their writtings so also the tradition taught/practiced by the apostles can't contradict scriptures. If a church father expresses a personal opinion that is against scripture, then such opinions are rightly condemned and thrown away. |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ubenedictus(m): 1:02am On Sep 18, 2014 |
Ukutsgp: probably? u are nt even sure. continue to invent stories. u can tell me that other words agree with english but nt until. u see how myopic u are? so you are ignorant of the fact that the bible wasnt written in english? |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Weah96: 3:38am On Sep 18, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: Something is wrong with you. I specifically pointed out that Jewish scriptures have no reference about a virgin giving birth. In the old testament, Isaiah 7:14, there is a prophecy about a virgin mother. The two scriptures are not the same. Yours is a poorly translated forgery. |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ukutsgp(m): 8:07am On Sep 18, 2014 |
Ubenedictus:pls mary is nt a virgin. and she had other sons and daughter. pls i have better things to do with tym now. 2 Likes |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ukutsgp(m): 8:09am On Sep 18, 2014 |
"Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his BRETHREN, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his SISTERS, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?" Matthew 13:55-56 This verse confirms people in Jesus' home town that watched Jesus grow up from a young man helping His father in his trade as a carpenter, to doing great miracles right before their eyes. They remembered Jesus lived there as well as the fact that He had four brothers. PLUS they still have Jesus' SISTERS living among them. How many sisters did Jesus have? The Bible doesn't say. Why are they still living there? Did they get married and settled down in their home town to raise a family? It makes no difference. The fact is the Bible accurately records that Mary had many children. God says "While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his BRETHREN stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy BRETHREN stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my BRETHREN? and he stretched forth his hand TOWARD HIS DISCIPLES, and said behold my mother and my BRETHREN!" Matthew 12:46-49 Many teachers of Catholic doctrine believe that Jesus called only those that believed in Him His brethren. Did you notice the statement made to Jesus BEFORE He calls all in the room His brethren. A person comes to Jesus to tell Him that His mother and brethren are out side waiting on Him. Jesus took this opportunity to illustrate to the believers (disciples) and apostles in the room that THEY are considered brethren now because they believe in Him. Jesus actually says in Matthew 19:29 "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." This verse is for believers that have to deal with unbelievers close to them. Does this verse not show Jesus calling those people that are not believers BRETHREN as well? It is no different than today, people from all walks of life call there fellow man brothers or sisters. What of the term, brothers in crime? And yes, just like back then, we have brothers and sisters in Jesus. Just because Jesus explained that if they believe in Him they become His brethren, does not say that Jesus denied His siblings. He just gained more brethren on this day. God says "And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and WITH HIS BRETHREN." Acts 1:13-14 These verses are now calling the Apostles by name, and then Mary the mother of Jesus with His brethren are now mentioned. Are not all in the upper room Brethren? Yes they are, it's just illustrated here that Jesus' Mother and siblings are in the room as well. What better way to illustrate the fact that Jesus has an earthly family as well as His Church family. Think about it, all the Apostles are mentioned by name, THEN Mary and the BRETHREN of Jesus are mentioned. Is this an attempt to show the two types of brethren? Indeed it is. God says "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him. Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand. His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest. For [there is] no man [that] doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world. For neither did his brethren believe in him. John 7:1-5 This I must concede is my favorite verse on this subject. How can it not be realized that "His brethren" here is BLUNTLY speaking of siblings? The argument is mute for those that would claim, "brethren" = "disciple" as well. How? The BRETHREN in this passage are telling Jesus to be on His way and go perform His miracles so that His "DISCIPLES" will see it "For neither did his brethren believe in him." God says "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James THE LORD'S BROTHER." Galatians 1:19 How blunt can you get? Is this not an obvious verse? We found earlier in Matthew 13:55 that one of Jesus' brothers was named James, and here we see James is mentioned again as The Lord's Brother. By the way, this is the same James that was inspired by God to write the book of James in the New Testament. God says "And he knew her not till she had brought forth her FIRSTBORN son: and he called his name JESUS." Matthew 1:25 Did you notice that the Bible calls Jesus the firstborn son of Mary? Why would the infallible Word of God call Jesus the Firstborn if He is supposed to be the last-born, as well as the one and only son of Mary? According to Catholic doctrine this can't be. But I ask, how can Catholic doctrine call Mary a virgin until death when the Bible states the exact opposite numerous times? Notice the word "till" in the above verse? The verse preceding this one tells us that "Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: " [Matthew 1:24,25] It seems rather plain. Joseph went ahead and did as the Angel told him to and married Mary. Then we see the Bible tells us Joseph "waited" to consummate the marriage "till she had brought forth her firstborn son" This easily proves Mary was no virgin. It is easy to say that her "firstborn" actually means she had MORE. And that declares openly that she had children other than Jesus.. 11 Likes |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:25am On Sep 18, 2014 |
Ukutsgp: Good question. |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:28am On Sep 18, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: Studying the Scriptures or the tradition of your church? You should be more concerned with what is written in Latin, was that not the language of Rome? 1 Like |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:35am On Sep 18, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: Not only Mary, it included all those who believed in Christ during His earthly ministry. "While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother" (Matthew 12:46-50). |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by btoks: 1:14pm On Sep 18, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU:In any case, we obey the Church ( The bishops in communion with the pope), they are the ones who bind and loose, ratify decisions in councils etc. E.g. Tertullian and Origen once towed the line of the church but once their later views started going against established tradition, the views were deemed heretical and not accepted by the church. The fact is anyone could read the scriptures and have differing personal views ( this is what happens with the sola scriptura), this is why a guide is required to confirm what the true faith is. It is the church that is the pillar and foundation of truth. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:38pm On Sep 18, 2014 |
btoks: What then is the difference with those who worship their "men of god"? Chris Oyakhilome sees himself as infallible, that he cannot sin against God and his followers believe him. Don't you also see your Pope as infallible? Should we obey man instead of God? Let the Holy Spirit, who is the author of the Scriptures guide you into the truth. 2 Likes |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by btoks: 3:57pm On Sep 18, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: The big difference is that the church was set up by Jesus who gave guarantee to the apostles that it won’t go into error, the gates of hell shall not prevail against it . He was going to send the Holy Spirit to guide it. You see an example when Peter (with all his personal faults) declared a teaching on Circumcision with no scriptural precedent (Acts 15 ) The papal Inf. is not to do with personal behaviour but a guarantee that the pope will not teach error in matters of faith and morals, when stated ex cathedra (i.e. when stated as a teaching to the whole church). Churches like Chris O’s were set up 2 millennia after the church with no apostolic succession. The early church was so concerned about being part of the true church that the only way to determine this was to work out whether you had apostolic succession. I very much doubt that it is the Holy spirit that has led to thousands of different churches with differing doctrine while all claiming adherence to Sola Scriptura. When you go to the big issues like Justification, Eucharist, nature of Christ, Trinity, Sabbath, Sin, Grace, Baptism, Marriage etc. All these churches teach different things. Whilst there are elements of truth in most denominations there is always a need for a guide. Jesus gave this to the church ( the church is guided by the holy spirit) - Jesus said, whoever hears you, hears me>>>> Luke 10:16 5 Likes |
Re: "What Does The Bible Say About The Virgin Mary?" by Ubenedictus(m): 5:04pm On Sep 18, 2014 |
Ukutsgp: pls mary is nt a virgin. and she had other sons and daughter. pls i have better things to do with tym now. pls show me a passage that says "these are mary's children" 2 Likes |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (31) (Reply)
Fr. Mbaka Moving To His New Parish Yesterday - Photos / Joshua Bamiloye And Tolulope Odesola Wedding Pictures / Edo Pastor Caught Sleeping With Married Woman In Church Office (Pics, Video)
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 88 |