beryl04:



Your ignorance stinks to high heavens !

Where do u get all this your cooked up stories huh?
From your spiritual director too?
O masee ooo!

Syncan:



Elampiro, Is this the Church's teaching on homosexuality? Another message from a "prophet". Did the scripture not say they will abound in the end times..Lk 17:23? Please tell me the Church's teaching on homosexuality, the church's teachings and laws are clear and documented.

MissMeiya:
elmapiro did you even read what you put up there? You have now succeeded in contradicting yourself.

elampiro:


On the ACT.
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.


ON THE TENDENCIES/URGE:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
..............................


REF 141 above: Cf. Gen 19: 1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.

elampiro:


Let the readers discern that. It's not for you. Maria Faustina was thought to be a false seer by the church, also the children of Fatima.

beryl04:



Your ignorance stinks to high heavens !

Where do u get all this your cooked up stories huh?
From your spiritual director too?
O masee ooo!

Syncan:


So which Part of this is the Pope trying to change?

MissMeiya:
elmapiro did you even read what you put up there? You have now succeeded in contradicting yourself.

asamaigho:




Dear lawd.....an irritating fellow.

elampiro:


Let me also ask you a question.

1. What is the essence of the Synod?
2. Why can't the Pope just refer the bishops to these sections if they (the sections) are in favour of welcoming gay?
3. What is the church teaching on divorce?


Now to answer your question, the part the Pope wants to change is the one that has to do with welcoming people who are active in gay acts. This is what the church forbids. He also want to change the divorce and forication laws.

elampiro:


That CCC is talking about two issues relating to gays.

1. People who are gays and are active.
2. People who have the tendencies but are not active.

The number one above is forbidden by the church. The Cardinals are not contesting the number two because the act is not committed. Pope Francis also want to allow divorce and fornication and number 1 above.

Syncan:


A question has turned to three, can't you just do anything right? Anyway, let me answer the first one.

Based on the prevalent problems peculiar to family life, which commenced a long time ago but has taken center stage in our world presently, and which has been raising questions and begging for shift or reaffirmation from the Church, the synod is called to discuss it.

"to define the current situation and to collect the bishops' experiences and proposals in proclaiming and living the Gospel of the Family in a credible manner." The working document said that the III Extraordinary General Assembly "will thoroughly examine and analyze the information, testimonies and recommendations received from the particular Churches in order to respond to the new challenges of the family." This is inline with scripture and the traditions of the church.


You lie about Pope Francis, please support your claim with proof.

Syncan:


What are the number 2 people called?

elampiro:


Stop asking me useless questions. Go and read the CCC. The number 2 are not in contention at the Synod. The church have never rejected them, so they arent the ones Pope Francis want to welcome. It's the number 1 being talked about.

elampiro:


Stop asking me useless questions. Go and read the CCC. The number 2 gays are not in contention at the Synod. The church have never rejected them, so they arent the ones Pope Francis want to welcome. It's the number 1 gays being talked about.

elampiro:


Do you realize that you are the one who cant do anything right? You asks question s and I have answered all your questions and now you cant answer my own questions.

How do you mean that I lied about Pope Francis? If he didn't want to change the teachings why did he call the Synod where there are already catechism on the subjects? Why did he appoint radical Cardinal Kapser to propose the way forward at the February consistory? Why did he praised Kapser proposal?

The whole world knows Pope Francis is in support of changing the church teachings in communion for divorce, cohabitation and welcoming people who are active homosexually.





I need to log out now. I should be back in 4 hours to respond to anything thing your write about.

elampiro:


Stop asking me useless questions. Go and read the CCC. The number 2 are not in contention at the Synod. The church have never rejected them, so they arent the ones Pope Francis want to welcome. It's the number 1 being talked about.

MissMeiya:


Just to clarify.

elampiro:
^
The above might be useful to some.

Syncan:


It is not useless, however, even for humor sake let's know what they are called? Please show me a proof that suggests what you now accuse the pope of.


"When Bergoglio celebrated Mass at the Cathedral for the 2004 First National Government holiday, President Néstor Kirchner attended and heard Bergoglio request more political dialogue, reject intolerance, and criticize exhibitionism and strident announcements. Kirchner celebrated the national day elsewhere the following year and the Mass in the Cathedral was suspended.Kirchner considered Bergoglio as a political rival to the day he died in October 2010. Bergoglio's relations with Kirchner's widow and successor, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, have been similarly tense. In 2008, Bergoglio called for national reconciliation during disturbances in the country's agricultural regions, which the government interpreted as a support for anti-government demonstrators.The campaign to enact same-sex marriage legislation was a particularly tense period in their relations.

"In 2006, Bergoglio publicly opposed an attempt by the Argentine government to legalize some cases of abortion. In 2007, after the government intervened to allow an abortion for a mentally handicapped woman who had been Molested, Bergoglio said that "in Argentina we have the death penalty. A child conceived by the molest of a mentally ill or slow woman can be condemned to death."

"Pope Francis has affirmed Catholic teachings on intimate morality. He said that while homosexual acts were sinful, the homosexual orientation was not".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis


This is the Pope that elampiro has been saying all sorts of lies against.

Syncan:


If you aren't blinded by false prophecy,.

Syncan:


question just as you requested and not three. If you want answers to the other two, then make similar request and be specific, "let your yes be yes" says the Lord. .

Syncan:


Again, a barrage of false claims, unfounded hear says..."the whole world knows bla bla bla...like I am not a part of the whole world. " The Pope applauded karsper", was he the only one that received applause from the Pope? even if it is the Pope's opinion, have I not told you enough that Peter's own view in Acts 15 synod was wrong? Yet at the end of the synod in acts 15 and vatican 2014, the Holy Spirit took Control.

elampiro:


Now let me expose Pope 'Who am I to judge'.


Behind closed doors, pope supported civil unions in Argentina, activist says
By Rafael Romo, Jose Manuel Rodriguez and Catherine E. Shoichet,
March 21, 2013 -- Updated 1822 GMT (0222 HKT)

Buenos Aires (CNN) -- Less than an hour after he fired off an angry letter to Catholic Church leaders about their handling of Argentina's same-sex marriage debate, Marcelo Marquez says his phone rang.
He was surprised to hear the voice on the other end of the line. It was Jorge Mario Bergoglio, then the archbishop of Buenos Aires, and now the pope.

What Bergoglio said to him at a meeting soon afterward that year, 2010, was even more surprising, Marquez said.
For months, church officials had made sharp, public criticisms of the push to legalize same-sex marriage in the South American country. But privately, Bergoglio seemed to be more open to discussion, according to Marquez. "He told me. ... 'I'm in favor of gay rights and in any case, I also favor civil unions for homosexuals, but I believe that Argentina is not yet ready for a gay marriage law," said Marquez, a gay rights activist, a self-described devout Catholic and a former theology professor at a Catholic seminary.

The pope's reported willingness behind-the-scenes to accept civil unions as a compromise may offer new insight into how he will lead the world's 1.2 billion Catholics.

A public battle
As archbishop of Buenos Aires, Bergoglio was one of the leaders of the Catholic Church's public charge against legalizing same-sex marriage in Argentina. He engaged in a notorious war of words with the government of President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, who supported the measure.
Bergoglio put himself in the middle of the fight, calling the proposed legislation "a destructive attack on God's plan."

With a front-page counterpunch, the president said the church possessed "attitudes reminiscent of medieval times and the Inquisition."
Some point to the public battle as evidence of Bergoglio's traditionalist views.
But behind closed doors, Marquez said, the man who would become pope appeared to be more open to discussion of the issue. In another meeting, Bergoglio told him he had always treated gay people with respect and dignity.

"I have accompanied many homosexual people during my career to tend to their spiritual needs," Bergoglio said at the time, according to Marquez. Pope was 'very open, very frank'
Bergoglio, who chose the name Pope Francis after he was elected pontiff last week, may have voiced his support for civil unions in other circles.

Andres Albertsen, a former pastor of the Danish Church in Buenos Aires, said Bergoglio made similar comments about civil unions to him in a private meeting.
"In this conversation that we had, he showed himself to be very open, very frank with me," Albertsen told CNN en Español on Wednesday. "He told me that he would have accepted a civil union."[/b]

According to a story published by The New York Times on Wednesday, Bergoglio also told bishops at a 2010 meeting that the church should support civil unions for gay couples.
CNN could not independently confirm the details of the Argentine bishops' meeting, which was also described[b] in a July 2010 article published by Argentina's Clarin newspaper.
"Bergoglio -- faithful to his moderate position -- proposed continuing measured actions. ... He would suggest, also, that the church discreetly accept the intermediate alternative of the civil union -- authorizing a series of rights (inheritance, social work) -- that would not equate to marriage nor permit adoption," wrote journalist Sergio Rubin -- now Bergoglio's biographer.[/b]
But that proposal was rejected by bishops, who voted instead to begin a high-profile, public battle against same-sex marriage, Rubin wrote.
Pushing for dialogue
A senior Vatican official said he could neither confirm nor deny The New York Times report at this point, adding that while Pope Francis might have expressed such a view while he was a cardinal, he should be given time to develop his policy position as pontiff.
Alejandro Russo, the rector of the Metropolitan Cathedral in Buenos Aires, said it was unlikely the pope had ever expressed such a view, even in private.
In 2007, Bergoglio publicly criticized Buenos Aires' government for allowing civil unions, Russo said. His relationship with the mayor of Buenos Aires soured over the matter.
Gay rights advocates in Argentina later argued that civil unions, allowed in a several states, were a positive step that conferred some benefits to same-sex couples, but didn't go far enough. The same-sex marriage measure, they said, would treat homosexual and heterosexual relationships equally before the law. It would permit gay couples to adopt, and also allow the inheritance of property.
Argentina approved a law legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide in July 2010.
Even though Bergoglio was one of the law's most well known opponents, Marquez said on Wednesday that he hopes the pontiff will remain open to discussion, just as he appeared to be several years ago in Buenos Aires.
"We are going to try to have a dialogue with the pope," said Marquez, who works for Argentina's National Institute Against Discrimination. "It's frightening, but I think it must be done."
'He's really moderate on this issue'
Word of the pope's reported support for civil unions in Argentina sparked debate, with some praising his stance and saying it was a hopeful sign of possible reforms.
"He wanted to respect human rights. That's the real surprise here, that people say, well he's anti-gay. You can be anti-gay marriage and not be anti-gay, and I think there's a distinction here," said the Rev. Edward Beck, a CNN contributor and host of "The Sunday Mass" on ABC Family. "He's really moderate on this issue, it seems."
Others, though, were more skeptical.
One Argentine journalist said Wednesday that he wasn't quite ready to celebrate.
In an article titled, "Francis, the pope that declares war on us and later calls us on the phone," journalist Bruno Bimbi said it wasn't clear how the pope will handle the issue of same-sex unions.
"Maybe the lion has become a lamb. Maybe, as a priest told me the day his election was announced, maybe he is worried about his biography and wants to go down in history. I do not know," Bimbi wrote. "Whatever he does, this time he won't be able to blame others for the pressures. Now he's in charge."
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/20/world/americas/argentina-pope-civil-unions/


.......................................

Mr Syncan will still come and defend Bergolio even though the whole world knows his support for gay union.

Syncan:






"If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?" ----Pope Francis in line with Elampiro's Number 2.

"The problem is not having this orientation," he said. "We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem."-----Pope Francis in line with Elampiro's Number 1.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23489702

Just tell me why elampiro, accuser of the brethren, is slandering the Pope.

Syncan:



Nonesense. You've raised this before somewhere else. Dem say, Dem say, slandering the Pope on Dem say. My Position still remains Same as:

https://www.nairaland.com/1446664/exclusive-interview-pope-francis/4#18416263

and

https://www.nairaland.com/1446664/exclusive-interview-pope-francis/4#18419704

Syncan:


"And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them"---Lk 17:23.

"And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:" Mk13:20

"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders"----Mk13:22

Beware...the words of the Master.

elampiro:


You are blinded by blind obedience to anything from the Vatican.

You avoided the questions because you know the answers will expose your falsity and Pope Francis desire to change the church teachings on communion for the divorce, cohabitation and homosexuality.

The Pope did not address the confusion of the Synod. He allowed the the confusion and bad proposals to be carried on for a year unto next next Synod even though they were voted down. Did he not suppose to clarify and defend the faith as well as deleting the immoral issues.

elampiro:


Number 2 as explained by the CCC said it's a disorder. But Francis said it's not a problem. The church is talking about treating the tendencies, but Bergoglio is saying it's fine.

You are yet to answer why Pope Francis open a Synod to try and change the number 1.

elampiro:


I dismantled you position everywhere. Your position is nothing but defence of Pope Francis who is dismantling the Catholic church layer by layer. The whole world know him for the Pope who wants to change the church teachings.