Why do people always use their personal experience as the be all and end all of various situation

Just because YOU havent heard of it and family members havent mention (no sure what you're expected to know at age 6) doesnt mean anything

Most of the people in that thread saying No are not old. They are aware that the stigma still affects these people UNLESS a person doesnt know that particluar person family line and really how long does that(the secrecy) last esp if marriage is involved

. I also notice that a good number of people (who I suspect are Igbo) who posted there didn't really have an idea of what Osu is. Someone even went ahead to say that no one really cares for it anymore.

They have no idea because?

When did marriage rise to the pinnacle of fundamental unit of every society? Does it include the social miscarriage called marriage in USA? It is funny to read about issue that inhibits the marital/family unit and the need to deal with it. If that is the case, the divorce rate in USA should have been at minimal instead of trumping the rate in the world.

If the Osu system is the only thing that stops marriage process cold in Igboland, I guess Ndigbo do not have problem with it because the population of Ndigbo is on the increase with leaps and bounces.

If the advocates of Osu, who seemed to be out of shape, want to become osu themselves, they are welcomed in Igboland.

@KarmaMod
----- You're misunderstanding my post (either that, or I failed in properly communicating my thoughts). I'm not using any personal experience. Just what I know (which also includes personal experience). I wasn't speaking for everyone and I was not using it as the "be all and end all". If you noticed, I said this. . .
[quote="ChinenyeN (ME)"]I have and know of, and speak with cousins who live in the village, but they're as much in the dark about the Osu issue as I am. I cannot speak for other Igbo tribes and clans, because I don't know. Maybe the whole Osu issue is running rampant in other parts of Igboland that I don't know of.[/quote]

Whatever I write here, is as much as I know. I'm not insinuating that my personal experience (only a fraction of what I know) is what I'm using to measure/judge the situation/issue. Also, me at 6 years old has nothing to do with this conversation, except for me to emphasis my lack of knowledge in regards to what is currently happening within the villages. That's all. I actually found out about Osu about 3 years ago, and that was when I was reading something and I happened to bump into it. I didn't know what it was at the time, so I asked my father. He explained it to me (at least his version of it), and then told me that no one cares for it anymore. That's the only true personal experience I've had in regards to Osu. I'm beginning to doubt if I'm at all communicating my thoughts properly.

KarmaMod:

They have no idea because?

Because they don't know, and they don't care to know. It does not matter. Not for the Osu and not for the Diala (generally speaking).

@OMO IBO
--- I've never heard that version before.

If that were true, your grandparent wouldnt be giving you clues on how to distinguish the "unclean" from the "normal" people

I found a website dedicated to bringing an end to this:

http://www.stop-osu.com/

I never thought I'd see where someone disputed that marriage was the fundamental unit of society. Wow. Yes, US marriage is in a shambles and is reflected in the larger society. What did this have to do with the topic? I did not post to attract argument. I get enough of that in my work.

@prittigrrr



Marriage is a fundamental union of male and female species of human beings to procreate and extend individual’s lineage in a given society. Even given the importance of marriage, it does not have the ultimate wisdom to unite everybody in the process of wedlock.

In certain societies, people create guidelines to check marriage processes. Even among “diala” in Igbo land marriage may not be consummated due to certain factors. In certain areas of Igboland, osu is one factor among several factors being considered before marriage could be consummated between a man and woman.

You are very much entitled to your opinion but do not come to the forum to pontificate on the issue you are very clueless about and put up fence about not wanting argument.
It is a pity you are overwhelmed with argument at work

It would gladden your heart to know that all practices that led to osu in certain areas of Igboland had been stopped.

@Dede1

If you will note my previous responses, I only made comments which I felt were analogous in American culture. Again, I repeatedly made the concession that I am clueless about Igbo culture and as I have stated in other posts, I am here to learn. A good way to facilitate learning is, in my humble opinion, to ask questions and make analogy.

Thank you for your concern about my work situation. However, argument is an occupational requirement for me. I am an attorney and get paid to argue for or against a matter.

Osu does not exist in my dictionary!

Pritti,

I think you asked a very valid question when you stated the following quote and I thought someone would answer it, . . .

Now, maybe the word tortue was a strong one, but I merely meant to show that to say that something is "only psychological stigma" seeks to diminish the effects the actions can have on the psyche of a person. If you are not an Osu, how do you know that it is "only a stigma" and that the stigma is minimal? Only an Osu can speak to that issue

Anyone care to answer?

Negro_Ntns:

Pritti,

I think you asked a very valid question when you stated the following quote and I thought someone would answer it, . . .

Anyone care to answer?

what do you really want to hear?
Tell me and I'll say it 3 times

Lmao.

Osisi, not only are the freeborns unwilling to discuss the issues with the Osus but you are also not willing to give answers to the questions from curious outsiders.

Ask any question in NL about Yoruba customs and at minimum you will find one or few of us that will give answer to it. It's dishonest for every Igbo to say I dont know what happened, there are inconsistent accounts about it and it's best left alone and not addressed. But its funny that in 2009 the problem has not stopped and nor is there inconsistency in the way an osu is maligned by the culture and traditions of his/her own people.

Generally, what is there to fear in answering the questions?

Lmao.

Osisi, not only are the freeborns unwilling to discuss the issues with the Osus but you are also not willing to give answers to the questions from curious outsiders.

Ask any question in NL about Yoruba customs and at minimum you will find one or few of us that will give answer to it. It's dishonest for every Igbo to say I dont know what happened, there are inconsistent accounts about it and it's best left alone and not addressed. But its funny that in 2009 the problem has not stopped and nor is there inconsistency in the way an osu is maligned by the culture and traditions of his/her own people.

Generally, what is there to fear in answering the questions?

No, it's not because most of them here that claim they know nothing about the Osu caste system are saying the truth. Didn't you just tell me the history of aworis on the other thread and somewhat blamed the school system for misinforming the younger generation over the issue.

The osu caste system in igboland predates christianity and it slowly went away after the pagan era because it was a pagan culture. How many pagans do we have in igbo land today? Not up to 1% of the population and they are the only ones that can give you an accurate information on the osu caste system. The little knowledge I know about it is that Osus were priests or generation of priests like the Levites in the bible. Those men that served the gods as their priests have their generation regarded as osu meaning property of the gods. Nobody touches their thing, provokes them, bangs their daughters because they believed it may incur the wrath of the gods.

Just like some said, I've heard about it but have never met anyone they ostracize in my place as osu. It gets worse if you want to track them using names like Nwosu but your father will be the first to warn you that the name has nothing to do with it. It's funny how non igbos claim they no so much about osu because they read it on nairaland or "somebody" told them. It's usually "some" anonymous person that tells it. The osu is popular and they are yet to come out here en masse and oppose it abi dem no get computer.(I am not in any way asking the likes of Tpia to wear their mascot and claim to be osu because I'll bust them )


Common sense logic:
If igbos have little or no African gods left, whom are we afraid of then that will kill us if we mess with osus?. Osu is an unfortunate thing that happened in my land just like other places in africa that practiced throwing away of twins etc. Will you revisit the issue and claim they still throw twins away?.

In the olden days in igboland, widows are transferred to their late husbands brother to continue marrying them but how many people still do such today?. How many women in igboland will even allow themselves to be transferred like cattles today?. Shall we also revisit that one and accuse igbos that knew nothing about it as blatant liars?. Truth is that most post Biafran war igbos knew nothing about idol worship or the culture that predates it. Some igbo parents prefer not to teach their kids those things because they consider any non christian practice as persona non grata. This culture is not only limited to igbos but also ijaws, ibibios, Efiks and all those areas captured by christianity so early. I've also noticed that Yorubas are more conversant with idol practices even if they are not into it, they must have an uncle or father or aunt that is embedded into it. So it becomes a little bit difficult for them to believe when you tell them things like, I knew nothing about this. When will they know it? When they travel to their village during christmas or what?

Let us reason like adults because any ideology clouded by hate and tribalism sounds lame in the long run. I am sure 90% of those that are hell bent on this osu issue are not doing it because they either pity osus or want to learn about the practice, rather they are here to champion their ethnic bigotry. I also read someone that wrote; I'd rather hold on to osu than ogboni that actually chops off peoples heads. That was enough to turn me off this thread.

@Negro,

Do you also know that an average igbo person believes that the ogboni confraternity harvest children and behead them for their fetish purposes?. Do you know that some igbo parents will not let you marry any girl whose father has been linked to ogboni because they believe it'll bring curse unto their family and lineage?. The only Osu practice i know of today in igboland is the way people avoid these "suspected" ogboni members. They treat them and their families like osu.
Now, you are conversant with that aspect of yoruba culture and know too well that it's not as bad as they make it out to be and not every yoruba family partakes in ogboni(especially the christian ones). Won't it be frustrating if somebody like osisi or me is telling you to suck it up just because you are trying to shed some light into the misconstrued belief(Mind you, I am neither supporting ogboni in anyway or form here nor do I mingle with its members)that they behead people in every clandestine meeting and use them as feast for themselves and the gods of yorubaland.

Just ask any igbo person here what his or her understanding of ogboni confraternity is and you will be surprised because they've added a lot of salt and pepper to the story to make it sound more scary. lack of knowledge will lead to early blindness of a generation.

@Negro-Ntns: I think that question got lost in the shuffle. I do not know how it can be answered under a "dont ask, dont tell" policy when to speak openly and publically would "out" you as an Osu. Maybe some Osu can create profiles strictly to respond to these threads from an Osu view without revealing any information about their true identities.

.

.

Negro_Ntns:

Lmao.

Osisi, not only are the freeborns unwilling to discuss the issues with the Osus but you are also not willing to give answers to the questions from curious outsiders.
Ask any question in NL about Yoruba customs and at minimum you will find one or few of us that will give answer to it. It's dishonest for every Igbo to say I dont know what happened, there are inconsistent accounts about it and it's best left alone and not addressed. But its funny that in 2009 the problem has not stopped and nor is there inconsistency in the way an osu is maligned by the culture and traditions of his/her own people.

Generally, what is there to fear in answering the questions?

what answers do you want I ask again.
The internet is filled with tons and tons of information about osu with various acounts of how it all started.
Isn't it common knowledge that your forefathers and mine had no written doumentations and that most African history was passed down orally.
Do you know the history of your Yoruba tribe?
doesn't an account have it that oduduwa was thrown down from the sky by some god,now does that sound reasonable to any outsider?
Nobody is saying the issue should be left alone,at least I'm not.
It's continually being discussed and has been discussed extensively and laws have been passed to make it criminal to label anyone an osu and discriminate against them.
If laws worked in your country and mine,it would be a thing of the past.
Osu is an ugly tradition and no one is defending it.
You don't meet a fellow Igbo man say in Lagos or Aba and suspect his family is labelled osu even if you knew his hometown.
Only people from those areas know those details and most times those issues come up when people are getting married and the families insist on "asking questions".
I have said personally that I know not one person that's called an osu and on the other threads where this topic has been discussed there are several who have said the same thing because not all villages have it and people who live in cities and hardly go home are more likely not to know any.
Like most Igbos,we don't sit around with our families pointing out who osus are.
We have our village associations here in the USA and people don't sit pointing finger at each other wondering what they are.
Things are a million times better in that regard than during the times of my forefathers when people lived in village communities.
There are intermarriages going on amongst the so called osus and freeborns despite oppositions.
A lot of people have gone beyond that stupidity
But naturally there will always be people like in any culture that'll hold on to some traditions (good or bad) till their dying day.
I hope your silly questions have been answered.

tpia:

from this website, it seems Christians are the ones who fear the osu label the most. And who help propagate it.

Why is that so?

You can also answer that question
Over 95 % of Igbos are said to be Christian doesn't that make natural sense that some of the opposition is from the so called Christians?

.

Negro_Ntns:

Pritti,

I think you asked a very valid question when you stated the following quote and I thought someone would answer it, . . . Now, maybe the word tortue was a strong one, but I merely meant to show that to say that something is "only psychological stigma" seeks to diminish the effects the actions can have on the psyche of a person. If you are not an Osu, how do you know that it is "only a stigma" and that the stigma is minimal? Only an Osu can speak to that issue_____prittyyyyy

Anyone care to answer?

then perhaps you can go and get an osu to speak on that issue

this whole discussion of osu issue by our emergency osu experts is just another igbo bashing ploy , not only are they not offering tangible solutions, they are intentionally being confrontational and judgemental with the intention to bash, accuse, and abuse the igbos. . . . perhaps we deserve it, for what our ancestors did, but the aim of this discussion is to igbobash . . . i understand no stress, . . . .

but for the igbos, dont let guilt complex enter you, unless you are racist or prejudicial. any igbo guy here who discriminates against his/her fellow igbo or indeed anybody whatsoever . . .shame on you , but if you are liberal, accept your fellow human being as he/she is, dont go about looking for whom to call one name or the other, then you have nothing to worry about. it's great to be igbo be proud.

if you are osu, dont tell me, tell no one, be happy, be proud, b/c you are igbo too.

if you want to marry and the osu thing is in the way, decide. . . will you damn ur family and marry or will you sell out ur rlshp? hard decision, but u must choose one, and stand by it. . . . . . . . proudly. if you are osu and u are rejected in marriage, . . pity . . . but dont despair . . . . get another partner . . . it may even be better than the former, smile and move on.

@all nigerians . . . .

best wishes from the igbos

pres-elect:

then perhaps you can go and get an osu to speak on that issue

this whole discussion of osu issue by our emergency osu experts is just another igbo bashing ploy , not only are they not offering tangible solutions, they are intentionally being confrontational and judgemental with the intention to bash, accuse, and abuse the igbos. . . . perhaps we deserve it, for what our ancestors did, but the aim of this discussion is to igbobash . . . i understand no stress, . . . .

but for the igbos, dont let guilt complex enter you, unless you are racist or prejudicial. any igbo guy here who discriminates against his/her fellow igbo or indeed anybody whatsoever . . .shame on you , but if you are liberal, accept your fellow human being as he/she is, dont go about looking for whom to call one name or the other, then you have nothing to worry about. it's great to be igbo be proud.

if you are osu, dont tell me, tell no one, be happy, be proud, b/c you are igbo too.

if you want to marry and the osu thing is in the way, decide. . . will you damn ur family and marry or will you sell out ur rlshp? hard decision, but u must choose one, and stand by it. . . . . . . . proudly. if you are osu and u are rejected in marriage, . . pity . . . but dont despair . . . . get another partner . . . it may even be better than the former, smile and move on.

@all nigerians . . . .

best wishes from the igbos

You put it nicely.
ka Jehova mezie okwu.
I have interacted with thousands of Igbos in my lifetime and this is a question I've never asked anyone and don't care to know who is called what.
Igbo n'ile bu ofu
Ndi a goziri agozi k'anyi bu
Igbo kwezuonu!

tpia:

I said why was it reported that they fear that label the most. These are the kind of attitudes that create agnostics and atheists.

I'll speak of a story I've heard of.
There was a young girl who fell in love with this rich man from a neighbouring town.
While they did  an investigation prior to the marriage, it was determined that the young man was said to be "osu".
The brides parents and siblings had no problems with it, they are Christians ,catholics and they decided to proceed but an uncle of theirs opposed the wedding vehemently and went as far as writing a letter to the council of chiefs in their town expressing his opposition and stating that him and his immediate family have absolutely nothing to do with the wedding and will not be tainted with the osu stigma because his younger brother willingly gave his daughter to an "osu"
He and no member of his immediate family attended the traditional or church wedding.
It took almost a decade for the uncle to come around to accepting this young man as an inlaw.
This uncle (who opposed the wedding)is a knight in the Church
That is the mentality.
It is driven by fear of what others will say
But these bigots forget that they are actually the ones fanning the flame of this injustice.

Aloy,

Thanks for sharing. You are the first breakthrough for me on this issue.

What amazes me is that all the topics I have seen on the subject there is a consistent claim of lack knowledge. Out of one hundred, no one knows, that gives suspicion and human nature for what it is, doubts creep in and then people begin to dig deeper for info, it leads to antagonistic views and then emotions get raw. It will be an easier conclusion for someone to say I know and I will share with you but certain aspects of this are taboos for discussion and so I am not at liberty to disclose them.

The best social fabric is held together by threads of matrimony across bloodlines and clans. The marriage of the son of one clan to the daughter of another builds truce and trust and is an invicible peacemaker against tensions and grievances that otherwise would lead to feuds in the community. I know as you have explained now that the social barriers have been torn down to the minimum, cross-blood marriage. That's the last block. Pushing against it and eroding all traces of it will eventually strengthen cooperation and trust and defuse fuedal tendencies. Something need to be done to effect that pushover and whatever it is had better be effective communication within the community and not the effective silence of don't ask, don't tell proposal suggested by some respondents here.

On the Ogboni issue, I am glad you pointed out that it is erroneous to believe they perform rituals with human sacrifice. They use blood rituals and they swear initiates to oaths using blood but humans are not sacrificed for that blood. In fact, many rituals in life are performed in blood than not.
___________________________________________

I hope your silly questions have been answered

Ah, Osisi, my sister abeg no vex now. You did very well with your follow up explanation, it clarified a lot of things. There is no doubt in what you say about old conservative traditions giving way to reformative ideas. We all know why it is that way. You and I have had conversations along tribal issues, we had heated exchange on the Biafran topic. I have very acute knowledge on historical accounts, at least the ones I am familiar with. The ones that I am not familiar with but interested in gaining knowledge on I go after intensely. Do not mistake my passion for knowledge as a front for follow up bashing on tribal grounds. I will go after an Igbo just much as I would a Yoruba or Hausa. I seek truth and I radiate truth.

On recommending solutions, it will be overbearing for me or any one with less than half-knowledge on that tradition to begin to offer solutions. I will be offended if a non Yoruba with no knowledge of Yoruba customs begin to offer solutions for how to stop parents from giving tribal marks to infant babies. The issue must be resoved within but because we all have blindsights, it helps sometimes to get the outside feedback.

Negro_Ntns:

Something need to be done to effect that pushover and whatever it is had better be effective communication within the community and not the effective silence of don't ask, don't tell proposal suggested by some respondents here.

How can communication happen when the majority of Osu do not know whether or not they are Osu? Those that know who is and who is not Osu are very few in number, like Aloy.Emeka, **Osisi & Pres-Elect pointed out. Those that don't know, vastly outnumber those that do know. Lastly, those that don't care (which includes both Osu and Diala) vastly outnumber both those that know and those that don't know (even, some that don't know, as well as some that do know are among those that don't care). Also, I don't think Osu parents went around [or are going around] telling their children they were [are] Osu. So, even some Osu won't know. So how can we effectively communicate about the issue? Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on anything. There's nothing else left to do except restructure the villages, and then move on. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" has been in effect since before I was born. It is not a formal policy. Rather it is just an understanding between Osu and Diala. If they [Osu] want to talk, then let them talk. Otherwise, no one is asking them to.

I see! Thanks Chine, that clarifies this further. You are looking at a melting pot basically and unless self identification occurs there is no physicall means of telling who is who; and of course provided that old Uncle in the village does not get rattled and begin to outline boundaries.

Well, thanks guys for the clarification. Oh before I leave, . . . Pres-Elect, going by the clarifications from all these insightful people do you now know who you are or do you still lack identity?

It's funny how they have no problem running their mouths about tribal marks in Yorubaland but when you ask them about practices in their own area ie osu, iichi marks, etc, it means someone is trying to "bring them down"

Paranoid bunch of egomaniacs

KarmaMod:

It's funny how they have no problem running their mouths about tribal marks in Yorubaland but when you ask them about practices in their own area ie osu, iichi marks,[/b] etc, it means someone is trying to "bring them down"

Paranoid bunch of egomaniacs

and they call me a tribalist?.
Onu ukpaka

osisi my sister no mind that onu ukpaka akwuna mutara. . . . . nwa ahu wu humpty dumpty ojooo ruru unyi . . .
some people really wanted some insight into the osu issue but some had hidden agenda, and already assumed expert authority on igbo issues themselves.

i predict that very soon another osu discussion will emanate from nowhere . . . .and new people will learn of it. . . keeping it alive . . .and then turning around to bash us for what our ancestors did.

@negro-ntns

finally u have come to understand what i've been saying all along. . . dont ask-dont tell works. it will take time to wipe it out finally but it works. . . . anyway, better late than never able to comprehend

once again, i reiterate myself, i may need to say it 3ice for u to grab

i am an independent observer,

Yes you are osisi even your brother 4Play has said it many times. Alafishe.

If common sense doesnt tell you that the ones Im referring to are those of you in this thread then I have no solution for you.

If you are just being awoken by the statement or question that was posed by prittgrrr by demanding answer from the contributors, you could wait for eternity. If I understood correctly, he/she said only Osu could answer to that question. Please wait for an Osu to supply the answer.



[quote][/Quote] Quote from: Negro_Ntns on Yesterday at 03:39:03 AM
Pritti,

I think you asked a very valid question when you stated the following quote and I thought someone would answer it, . . . Now, maybe the word tortue was a strong one, but I merely meant to show that to say that something is "only psychological stigma" seeks to diminish the effects the actions can have on the psyche of a person.  If you are not an Osu, how do you know that it is "only a stigma" and that the stigma is minimal?  Only an Osu can speak to that issue_____prittyyyyy

Anyone care to answer?
[quote][/Quote]

We have bad culture everywhere.

I am Yoruba and we have some cultures that are very bad and are going extinct too.

@Karmamod, Do you know what is called Abobaku? A ba oba ku