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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. (6401 Views)
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Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by Nobody: 7:04pm On Dec 05, 2014 |
theunusualmoon: What light? |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by frank317: 8:02pm On Dec 05, 2014 |
BossTtdiamonds: Everybody is a victim of typo... You can't be too smart. Honestly I don't wish his sister be raped. Saying that was the only way I could let him know he was spewing rubbish. Perhaps some one he knew killed her self before being raped and he was joyful at the news 1 Like |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by BossTtdiamonds(m): 9:31pm On Dec 05, 2014 |
frank317: "I got you message" I'd admit to you its a typo.. But I do hope you know I write in both american and british english...?? Now @bolded.. There are better ways to do that.... |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by frank317: 10:47pm On Dec 05, 2014 |
BossTtdiamonds: Yes there are... Trust me, from the way he had been talking, I doubt if any other way will be effective. |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by BossTtdiamonds(m): 10:52pm On Dec 05, 2014 |
frank317: Now I understand your plight...and I'm guessin' you're not much of a fan of MI Abaga (King James).. |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by PraiseDLord: 12:04am On Dec 06, 2014 |
Dapo777: @op, Reproacheth thou thy maker thus?? God is not man and can never be! |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by edogho(m): 10:35am On Dec 06, 2014 |
frank317:What's ur problem Mr? U a writer is supposed to have read widely. I just mentioned mercy killing and u're acting as if I cut ur balls off. Calling me names only shows u're irresponsible too. Ur sentiments and emotions are indeed mediocre and are eating u up. I repeat, its better I die than have some kinda punishment. Ever seen a criminal being lynched by a mob? In that instant, any criminal would choose sudden death if they had d option. I don,'t know who u think u are, but u are being childish and mediocre in our way of looking at the world and circumstances there in. By the way, do u know any thing abt mi God? Your comments' just giving u out. I'm tempted to exchange blows buh i won't, just continue deceiving ursef, just know that u are ur no.1 enemy. Cheers smart boi |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by 5minsmadness: 3:36pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Dapo777:Lol!!!!! Hahahahaahahha!!! This is not even how God would have answered! Btw I have seen this conversation. It is a video on the internet where an atheist was trying to make fun of God and ridicule free will. If you think this is how the Eternal one would have responded you are more ignorant than you sound! |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by 5minsmadness: 4:03pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Dapo777:SCENARIO 1: Lets assume the woman is really the mother of this child:- She just divorced her husband who had no chance at custody of his child in the western law courts which tend to favour women in a divorce. In fact she has been using this child as a sex slave and her ex husband just found out. In fact she is just coming back from a clients place who has just had his way with the child. That is why they are walking along the dark alley at this time of the night instead of being safely in their house. So ex who has been tailing them uses this opportunity to mete out some jungle justice. Is it wrong? Yes. Does she deserve it? What do you think. Swear that the above scenario isn't possible. SCENARIO 2: The mother is a drug addict and thief. She has been owing the cartel some money and has refused to pay up. These two men are from the cartel and the beat-up is a warning to pay up. Remember the op said they didn't come to steal anything, just beat her up in front of her son. Is it in bad taste? Yes. Is it God's fault she is being beaten for her wrong choices? I don't think so. SCENARIO 3 The woman went for a rock concert that finished late in the night. Ignoring all common sense to stay where she is and being high on alcohol, she insists on going home at that dangerous time of the night and picks up her son from where she dropped him and trudges home. Even when she sees the dark alley she ignores the warning signs and walks right in. Its like those prophets who deliberately enter the lion's den in ibadan zoo because they want to be like Daniel. Of course they will get eaten. Is her experience a good one? No. Will she learn from this experience if she survives it? Hopefully Yes. Is God to blame for her bad choice in going to a rock concert and coming back late at night? Definitely not. That's free will foe you. YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS. You see the three different permutations I came up with for that singular scenario? Am sure a more intelligent person can come up with more. There is a real battle going on, the battle of good and evil over every soul on earth. Unfortunately good and evil don't play by the same rules. Evil is going to do all it can, including smear campaigns to win as many souls as possible; not because evil wins at the end but just to spite the Eternal one by making him lose as many souls a possible. You have free will. Choose a side. Just remember you and only you will be solely responsible for the consequences. 1 Like |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by Nobody: 4:42pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
I don't think the op even understands his analogy. If you understand what freewill is you would have seen that your analogy only helps to promote it in relation. If you want to attack the place of God in relation to evil this analogy will work against you. |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by edogho(m): 5:42pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Like seriously. 5minsmadness and Reygenius, I've been trying to let the op and frank know that their argument is silly buh they think i'm crazy. u guys just summed everything up, good one. They see the world from a child's eyes and expects everyone to do same. I don't see how different they are from those who expect planet earth to be a jolly good place because they think so. Won't answer them, i promise |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by Nobody: 7:53pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
5minsmadness:This just confirms one of my threads on nl, You know exactly how GOD would answer and how he wouldn't answer because you are GOD |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by Nobody: 8:02pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
5minsmadness: In other words,if that woman happens to be your mum you would blame her for being beaten,because according to you it's her freewill to be beaten. Right? You name suits you perfectly. Madness on display |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by 5minsmadness: 8:18pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Dapo777:Lol! Yes indeedha! I am 5minsmadness at your serviceha! But it still doesn't take away the fact that we will all suffer for the choices we make. It was her freewill to go out late at night despite the dangers. Neither you or I know the entire scenario and circumstances under which she was being beaten so violently. She could have been an innocent victim. But then again she could have been a murderer herself. |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by 5minsmadness: 8:45pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Dapo777:Lol! I don't know how God would answer but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't answer in the childish way you tried to portray in your example. |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by Nobody: 8:46pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
5minsmadness: Hehehe, regardless of what brought her out at night, the issue is, was it her will to be beaten or the gambit will,GOD must favour one will over the other and I expect him to favour the innocent one's will over the violent's one will,let's assume that the woman was coming from a night vigil, now tell me what reason does GOD have not to save that woman? |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by Nobody: 8:54pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
5minsmadness: You are sure he wouldn't answer that way because you are him that is why you are 100% certain GOD would never say such, because you are GOD. |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by 5minsmadness: 8:59pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Dapo777:You have subtly digressed from the topic. |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by theunusualmoon(m): 9:01pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Dapo777:......................... I think you should elaborate on this new theory of yours: calling people God. |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by Nobody: 9:08pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
theunusualmoon: https://www.nairaland.com/1987558/now-believe-god-real-evidence |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by 5minsmadness: 9:10pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Dapo777:Lol, now you are running around in circles. You don't just pick something silly off the internet and expect that because it was made by a Whiteman then it must be smart. It wasn't a smart video at all really. Freewill is essentially the ability to choose . Whether right or wrong, action or inaction, silence or speech. This is freewill. It is different from curcumstance. You are in Nigeria not of your own free will but you can choose to be a corrupt politician or a decent one. The choice is yours. Lets assume the woman was a murderer going to use her child for ritual, what right has God to save her? Do you see how you cannot judge this case without knowing the whole story? |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by 5minsmadness: 9:15pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Also, many of you think that once mosquito bites you then God must be to blame or God must protect each and every christian nd child of God from every bodily harm. This is a wrong and false belief being perpetrated by new age and Pentecostal churches of today. Read how Jesus' apostles and right hand men died. None of them died a nice death. Read also what Jesus said of the men who were killed when the wall fell on them. But perhaps that is a discussion for another thread. |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by theunusualmoon(m): 9:25pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
5minsmadness:................ 5minsofsanity........You are doing a good job. |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by Nobody: 9:30pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
5minsmadness: Look at the statement you made above,it wasn't my will to be a Nigerian or to be in Nigeria, I just met myself here,that's an indication that freewill is an illusion. Why are you making only negative assumptions about the woman? So that you can support GOD,Which is you,why can't I use an information I got online if I find sense in it? It's made by a white man doesnt mean it can't make sense,are you a racist? There is a lot of sense in that video and it should serve as an eye opener for those who aren't deep in the pit of self deceit,making yourself subconsciously believe what your instinct knows isn't true. My point still remains, what if that woman hasn't done anything to deserve the beating,a lot of things like that happen on earth,that analogy was just an example,what about the aluu? Those men that got killed innocently, would you in your right mind say that it was their freewill that got them killed? |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by Nobody: 9:42pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
5minsmadness: If GOD can't protect his children, why is he called GOD? What you are doing is tantamount to a child that support his father who doesn't protect him,but leaves him to face dangers. Of what use is GOD yo you if he can't protect you? Because now you are arguing that it's not necessary GOD protect. Christians what can they not say to defend GOD? If someone narrowly escaped death,GOD protected the person but If someone died in an accident,then GOD is not supposed to protect every Christians,Cognitive dissonance, I haven't found any Christian free from it. |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by theunusualmoon(m): 9:54pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
@Dapo777 All along these few days that we have been having this symposium "on freewill" you have only considered one side of the coin: The stronger party taking advantage of the weaker party(e.g your example: A woman and her son being beaten by bandits at night etc) Now I want us to consider the weaker party taking advantage of the stronger party. Consider how Delailah betrayed Samson despite his love for her. Consider how Antonio Bandera's wife chose to poison him in the movie:Original Sin,despite his love for her. How about very real life situations such as; A young vain chap who decides to set up his father and gave information to bandits as to how they can rob his dad of millions just so he can get a few hundreds of thousands to paint the town red. A soldier decides to betray his regimen and country for a few million Nairas E.g Nigerian soldiers that keep giving Bokoharam tips What's your take on "freewill" in this scenarios and what would you have had GOD do? |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by asalimpo(m): 10:00pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Dapo777: so this all u cud muster... Go try writng plays. According to u, with ur tintilly brain , tell us what rules shud govern God's violation of human free will without outright solicitation and the valid range of His violation? Who wud b qualified to draft such rules and impose them on God? |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by asalimpo(m): 10:08pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
atheists give ur life to Christ and some of ur questions will b answered. Dapo777: |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by Nobody: 10:08pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
theunusualmoon: Good question. I also have a question, why does GOD interferes in some situations and decides to sit back and watch in other situations where we would normally expect him to interfere? Mr A was involved in an accident but didn't get killed, glory be to GOD,GOD saved Mr A,Mr B also in the same vehicle that was involved in the accident died, they both attend the same church,they both pray do their Christian obligations, Mr B has a family of 5 to Carter for at home, but GOD decided not to save him as he has saved Mr A,is there a reason why GOD should favour some of his children over others, isn't he the same GOD that preached we should love everyone equally and not be partial,would you say it was Mr B time to die despite the fact that he has a lot of responsibilities at home, now that Mr B is dead his wife can't cope, his children are roaming about, hallelujah Gods ways are mysterious, but if Mr B also survived the accident,GOD saved him if he didn't,then God's ways are mysterious |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by 5minsmadness: 10:09pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Dapo777:Once again, you have to learn to differentiate free will from circumstance. You didn't ask to be born did you? But here you are. That's circumstance. Are you going to spend the rest of your life crying over your predicament or do something about it? That's free will. Why are you making only negative assumptions about the woman? So that you can support GOD,Why are you trying so hard to make the woman out to be a helpless victim? So you can paint God as a callous bystander? Tit for tat my friend. Which is you,why can't I use an information I got online if I find sense in it? It's made by a white man doesnt mean it can't make sense,are you a racist? There is a lot of sense in that video and it should serve as an eye opener for those who aren't deep in the pit of self deceit,making yourself subconsciously believe what your instinct knows isn't true. Well, I watched all those videos a long time ago when i thought I was seeking knowledge. They are not new to me. Even the silly one where they try and prove that God wanted Adam to eat the forbidden fruit. I have seen it all and seen the deception in them over time. So it amuses me when people find it for the first time and think they have seen something no one else has seen. My point still remains, what if that woman hasn't done anything to deserve the beating,a lot of things like that happen on earth,that analogy was just an example,what about the aluu? Those men that got killed innocently, would you in your right mind say that it was their freewill that got them killed?And the young men in Jesus time who the walls of the temple fell upon, did they deserve it? Was it freewill that sent them to such a horrid fate? The aluu4 is still a sensitive topic so I'd rather not be dragged into it thank you very much. Suffice to say I know one or two people who gave me first hand info on the matter and lets leave it at that. Lets use instead the beheading of innocent christians in the middle east, does anyone deserve such a horrifying death? Moreso an innocent person? Or a youth Corper I met a while ago who lost her virginity to thieves? Is there suffering in this world? Yes there is. Why does God allow this suffering to happen? I don't know. Are there true life stories of people who forgave the killers of their children? Yes there are. Are there true life stories of women who forgave men that raped them and even inspired great things because of their selflessness? Yes there are. Can pain and suffering lead to further suffering? Yes it can. Can pain and suffering lead to forgiveness, great compassion and love? Yes it can. And the outcome of all of this is dependent on free will. 1 Like |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by Nobody: 10:11pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
asalimpo:I suppose you have the answers to my questions since you have given your life to Christ. Please give us the answers to the questions since you apparently have the answers as a Christian. |
Re: The Reason Why Freewill Argument Fails To Explain Evil. by theunusualmoon(m): 10:17pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
Dapo777:................ Before I dissect the issue above can you please let us clear the alr on freewill.Because this your new analogy will end up with us digressing into another area entirely. Now pls respond to the issue.of freewill by considering times when it was weaker parties that took advantage of stronger parties. |
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