All u know is tht both men boarded d same vehicle, one died,the other survived.

You know very lil about their background, spiritual lives.

Yet you conjecture favoritism and partiality on God's part.

5minsmadness:

Once again, you have to learn to differentiate free will from circumstance.
You didn't ask to be born did you? But here you are. That's circumstance. Are you going to spend the rest of your life crying over your predicament or do something about it? That's free will.



Why are you trying so hard to make the woman out to be a helpless victim? So you can paint God as a callous bystander? Tit for tat my friend.




Well, I watched all those videos a long time ago when i thought I was seeking knowledge. They are not new to me. Even the silly one where they try and prove that God wanted Adam to eat the forbidden fruit. I have seen it all and seen the deception in them over time. So it amuses me when people find it for the first time and think they have seen something no one else has seen.


And the young men in Jesus time who the walls of the temple fell upon, did they deserve it? Was it freewill that sent them to such a horrid fate?

The aluu4 is still a sensitive topic so I'd rather not be dragged into it thank you very much. Suffice to say I know one or two people who gave me first hand info on the matter and lets leave it at that.

Lets use instead the beheading of innocent christians in the middle east, does anyone deserve such a horrifying death? Moreso an innocent person? Or a youth Corper I met a while ago who lost her virginity to thieves? Is there suffering in this world? Yes there is. Why does God allow this suffering to happen? I don't know. Are there true life stories of people who forgave the killers of their children? Yes there are. Are there true life stories of women who forgave men that raped them and even inspired great things because of their selflessness? Yes there are.

Can pain and suffering lead to further suffering? Yes it can. Can pain and suffering lead to forgiveness, great compassion and love? Yes it can.

And the outcome of all of this is dependent on free will.

Circumstances are caused by what you Christians call freewill,the circumstance you find yourself rest upon the "freewill" of another person/s,the circumstance of meeting yourself in Nigeria rest upon the freewill of your mum and dad having sex and giving birth to you,Which you have no power yo stop,Unless you terminate your life. I doubt if we have completely freewill as Christians try to make us believe if at all we even have any freewill, there are certain traits I have that I don't like, and that I find hard to get rid off,like being Frank and straightforward to a fault,I have that trait,I get on people's nerve because I say things just the way they are,plainly,nothing hidden,not sugar coated. I can't remember choosing this trait while coming to this world,I just met myself in this world with ready made traits Which are dependent on the traits on my parent and slight mutations. I have no control, absolutely none.

I know bad things happen,but what annoys me is how some people try to explain it or justify it by saying only GOD understands ,or his ways are mysterious, the most preposterous being that GOD wants us to exercise our freewill, I totally disagree. I like your humility to agree that you don't know why there is evil,unlike some Christians who claim to have all the answers because they have given their life to Christ.

Cheers

theunusualmoon:

................
Before I dissect the issue above can you please let us clear the alr on freewill.Because this your new analogy will end up with us digressing into another area entirely.
Now pls respond to the issue.of freewill by considering times when it was weaker parties that took advantage of stronger parties.

Then in that case, the weaker party is exercising his or her freewill over the stronger party,and we can't call the former a weaker party Unless you are talking about physical strength only. Someone can be a stronger party in terms of wisdom or being sly.

Dapo777:


Then in that case, the weaker party is exercising his or her freewill over the stronger party,and we can't call the former a weaker party Unless you are talking about physical strength only. Someone can be a stronger party in terms of wisdom or being sly.

.....................
So.how.come.you.haven't.blamed GOD for not helping the stronger party?

theunusualmoon:

.....................
So.how.come.you.haven't.blamed GOD for not helping the stronger party?

And who says I won't blame GOD? I thought you were open minded and sincere. So you asked that question to make a presumptuous conclusion on me,Which I didn't make. Clap for yourself. This is not a matter of who is stronger or who is weaker,it's a matter of why would GOD not d anything when one person's freewill is not being exercised and the perpetrator is exercising his or her free will,if GOD truly cares about everyone's freewill he should make everyone exercise his or her freewill or at least only make those with good intention exercise their freewill. That's the bone if contention. He is GOD Na he should be able to do it.

Handle it!

Dapo777:


And who says I won't blame GOD? I thought you were open minded and sincere. So you asked that question to make a presumptuous conclusion on me,Which I didn't make. Clap for yourself. This is not a matter of who is stronger or who is weaker,it's a matter of why would GOD not d anything when one person's freewill is not being exercised and the perpetrator is exercising his or her free will,if GOD truly cares about everyone's freewill he should make everyone exercise his or her freewill or at least only make those with good intention exercise their freewill. That's the bone if contention. He is GOD Na he should be able to do it.

Handle it!

.......................
Wow.its good to know I am "insincere and closed minded" because I finally made you.see that freewill swings both ways.
You said if GOD cared about everyone's freewill then he should make everyone excercise their own freewill.
So in that case I guess you shouldn't be bothered when your 14 year old daughter tells you she wants to start dating a 30 yr old married man........Afterall everyone has a right to freewill

theunusualmoon:

.......................
Wow.its good to know I am "insincere and closed minded" because I finally made you.see that freewill swings both ways.
You said if GOD cared about everyone's freewill then he should make everyone excercise their own freewill.
So in that case I guess you shouldn't be bothered when your 14 year old daughter tells you she wants to start dating a 30 yr old married man........Afterall everyone has a right to freewill

You have edited your post,I saw the Adam and Eve knowledge of good and evil part, you removed it,good you realised the straw man,now your illustration doesn't apply,because I never said I would give my daughter freewill to choose whatever She wants but that's what GOD said,or what Christians say GOD said.

GOD should be a wise GOD Na,if he can make the decision to make everyone have freewill then that should be a wise decision, I guess this freewill of a thing is turning out good results shey? Wise GOD I must say. The fact still remains,that GOD not interfering with man's freewill would make one man's freewill to override another's freewill,God shouod have seen this coming(omniscience ) but he still went ahead to give man freewill despite knowing the end result.Which simply means,whatever is happening now,.GOD wants it to happen because he knew it would happen but still didn't try another plan,or maybe GOD doesn't have the power to stop it,maybe he isn't omnipotent afterall, those two traits are mutually exclusive, GOD is impossible

The conversation is a very flawed example of how such a conversation would go and it also fails to even illustrate the equally flawed thread title.

Dapo777:


You have edited your post,I saw the Adam and Eve knowledge of good and evil part, you removed it,good you realised the straw man,now your illustration doesn't apply,because I never said I would give my daughter freewill to choose whatever She wants but that's what GOD said,or what Christians say GOD said.

GOD should be a wise GOD Na,if he can make the decision to make everyone have freewill then that should be a wise decision, I guess this freewill of a thing is turning out good results shey? Wise GOD I must say. The fact still remains,that GOD not interfering with man's freewill would make one man's freewill to override another's freewill,God shouod have seen this coming(omniscience ) but he still went ahead to give man freewill despite knowing the end result.Which simply means,whatever is happening now,.GOD wants it to happen because he knew it would happen but still didn't try another plan,or maybe GOD doesn't have the power to stop it,maybe he isn't omnipotent afterall, those two traits are mutually exclusive, GOD is impossible

....................
Freewill came after they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil......
what straw is in that?
That's exactly why the world is where it is toay......Men have been using their freewill for more evil than good.

theunusualmoon:

....................
[size=16]Freewill came after they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil[/size].....
what straw is in that?
That's exactly why the world is where it is toay......Men have been using their freewill for more evil than good.

Hmmmm. Let's take a closer look at your statement enlarged above^^^

Freewill came after they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is to say that they weren't doing their will when they decided to eat the fruit,because they had no freewill then.

So whose will were they following? God's will or Satan's will?

Remember they had no freewill before eating the fruit as you implied,So tell us whose will were they following that made them eat the fruit? Gods will or Satan's will?

@Dapo777

You are simply setting up a straw man argument. The concept of freewill does not attempt to explain evil same way a supermarket does not explain the presence of Coke or Pepsi, it merely presents to you a choice.

Dapo777:


Hmmmm. Let's take a closer look at your statement enlarged above^^^

Freewill came after they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is to say that they weren't doing their will when they decided to eat the fruit,because they had no freewill then.

So whose will were they following? God's will or Satan's will?

Remember they had no freewill before eating the fruit as you implied,So tell us whose will were they following that made them eat the fruit? Gods will or Satan's will?

.....................
But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat says GOD
Eat and be wise and be like GOD says the devil to Eve and she did eat and also gave to her husband.
So @Dapo777 whose will did they carry out?

LordReed:
@Dapo777

You are simply setting up a straw man argument. The concept of freewill does not attempt to explain evil same way a supermarket does not explain the presence of Coke or Pepsi, it merely presents to you a choice.

What are the choices presented to the woman in my illustration? To be beaten or? You won't say run nor fight back,because it's not possible,She is with her child and She is not strong enough to fight back,So tell me what are the choices freewill has presented to her? I am curious.

theunusualmoon:

.....................
But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat says GOD
Eat and be wise and be like GOD says the devil to Eve and she did eat and also gave to her husband.
So Dapo.whose will did they carry out?

Answer my question directly,I can't read your mind. Let me assume you mean they are doing the devils will,So why did GOD punish them, considering the fact they were gullible,they had no freewill,the devil manipulated them because they had no freewill,the devil controlled them to do his will,so what justification does GOD have to punish them? It wasn't their will to disobey(they had no will) it was the devils will. Can you now see the problem with the creation story,there are So many problems with this story,you just opened my eyes to another one.

Dapo777:


What are the choices presented to the woman in my illustration? To be beaten or? You won't say run nor fight back,because it's not possible,She is with her child and She is not strong enough to fight back,So tell me what are the choices freewill has presented to her? I am curious.

Your illustration is flawed in discussing freewill and evil. Being a victim of armed robbery has nothing to do with the freewill of the victim same way being alive has nothing to do with a baby. Nobody makes a choice to be born.

Freewill does not attempt to address the origin of evil so maybe you should refocus your efforts.

LordReed:


Your illustration is flawed in discussing freewill and evil. Being a victim of armed robbery has nothing to do with the freewill of the victim same way being alive has nothing to do with a baby. Nobody makes a choice to be born.

Freewill does not attempt to address the origin of evil so maybe you should refocus your efforts.

Dude, you have tried your best. You don't force people to learn. I only have pity for the person for whom ignorance is bliss.

LordReed:


Your illustration is flawed in discussing freewill and evil. Being a victim of armed robbery has nothing to do with the freewill of the victim same way being alive has nothing to do with a baby. Nobody makes a choice to be born.

Freewill does not attempt to address the origin of evil so maybe you should refocus your efforts.

Well that is what every Christian I have meet use to explain evil,they say because man is misusing his freewill that is why there is evil,maybe you are not a normal Christian,maybe you are Jehovah witness or those 7days Adventist, or those new age Christian movement.

LordReed:


Your illustration is flawed in discussing freewill and evil. Being a victim of armed robbery has nothing to do with the freewill of the victim same way being alive has nothing to do with a baby. Nobody makes a choice to be born.

Freewill does not attempt to address the origin of evil so maybe you should refocus your efforts.

Being a victim of armed robbery has everything to do with freewill(according to christians)of the offender,and it is affecting and overriding the freewill of the victim,that's the plain truth,and GOD doesn't give a damn about the victims freewill,he allows the perpetrators to exercise their freewill over the victims,whom he could have saved.

Cappish?

Dapo777:


Answer my question directly,I can't read your mind. Let me assume you mean they are doing the devils will,So why did GOD punish them, considering the fact they were gullible,they had no freewill,the devil manipulated them because they had no freewill,the devil controlled them to do his will,so what justification does GOD have to punish them? It wasn't their will to disobey(they had no will) it was the devils will. Can you now see the problem with the creation story,there are So many problems with this story,you just opened my eyes to another one.

....................
I didnt open your eyes to anything.You are just a person who sees what he choses to see and leaves out what he ought to see.
............
You leave your kids at home wit enough to eat and tell them not to touch the sugar box on the table .An uncle comes around and says to them why not add some sugar to your coke.And your kids reply: dad said the coke is enough and their uncle says dont mind him you just try it and see if the coke turns out sweeter or not.
As a father when you eventually get home and you discover your kids did tried what their uncle recommended.what would you do?

theunusualmoon:

....................
I didnt open your eyes to anything.You are just a person who sees what he choses to see and leaves out what he ought to see.
............
You leave your kids at home wit enough to eat and tell them not to touch the sugar box on the table .An uncle comes around and says to them why not add some sugar to your coke.And your kids reply: dad said the coke is enough and their uncle says dont mind him you just try it and see if the coke turns out sweeter or not.
As a father when you eventually get home and you discover your kids did tried what their uncle recommended.what would you do?

You keep on bringing irrelevant examples here, I don't know why. If I don't want my children to use the sugar,being aware of how gullible they are,I won't put the sugar within their reach,I would place the sugar on the cupboard where i am sure they can never reach,I won't even tell them where the sugar box is,but GOD placed the tree at the centre of the garden where it is easily reached and told them where it is, and instructed them not to touch it,knowing how curious they are,this is obviously a set up by GOD,why did he place the tree in a place very accessible? Why didn't he just destroy the tree? Of what use is that tree ? GOD knows how gullible they are,and he knows how trickery the devil is,yet he didn't warn them against devil or better still make the garden of Eden inaccessible to the devil,

Man this is ordinary common sense,even a 10 year old child would understand what I am saying and see the logic in it,I don't believe a grown up man like you believes that story,how are you different from your 4 year old daughter that believes in Santa Claus and fairy tales? Your own fairy tales is just a stronger fairy tale that survived and still surviving.

Dapo777:


Well that is what every Christian I have meet use to explain evil,they say because man is misusing his freewill that is why there is evil,maybe you are not a normal Christian,maybe you are Jehovah witness or those 7days Adventist, or those new age Christian movement.

LoL, chai this man!

Dapo777:


You keep on bringing irrelevant examples here, I don't know why. If I don't want my children to use the sugar,being aware of how gullible they are,I won't put the sugar within their reach,I would place the sugar on the cupboard where i am sure they can never reach,I won't even tell them where the sugar box is,but GOD placed the tree at the centre of the garden where it is easily reached and told them where it is, and instructed them not to touch it,knowing how curious they are,this is obviously a set up by GOD,why did he place the tree in a place very accessible? Why didn't he just destroy the tree? Of what use is that tree ? GOD knows how gullible they are,and he knows how trickery the devil is,yet he didn't warn them against devil or better still make the garden of Eden inaccessible to the devil,

Man this is ordinary common sense,even a 10 year old child would understand what I am saying and see the logic in it,I don't believe a grown up man like you believes that story,how are you different from your 4 year old daughter that believes in Santa Claus and fairy tales? Your own fairy tales is just a stronger fairy tale that survived and still surviving.

.................
Wow, do you really think your insults can hide the fact that you are unintelligent?
You think it will make people appreciate your point of view further?
People who speak in this pattern of yours only do so because they cannot convincingly express their point of views.
Now I understand Reyginus and honourhim better.
But think about this: Have you ever wondered what that forbidden fruit is? What if the term "forbidden fruit"is just figurative?
Do you really think it was an apple?

theunusualmoon:

.................
Wow, do you really think your insults can hide the fact that you are unintelligent?
You think it will make people appreciate your point of view further?
People who speak in this pattern of yours only do so because they cannot convincingly express their point of views.
Now I understand Reyginus and honourhim better.
But think about this: Have you ever wondered what that forbidden fruit is? What if the term "forbidden fruit"is just figurative?
Do you really think it was an apple?

Irrelevant. Address my question if you have something meaningful to say. Sorry for hurting you,it's one of those traits I don't like.

Dapo777:


Irrelevant. Address my question if you have something meaningful to say. Sorry for hurting you,it's one of those traits I don't like.

...................
Hurting me! You are so illusioned.you really think you're emotionally stronger than I am because I expressed disgust at your unattractive mannerisms?
I feel nothing but pity when I run into an egg that thinks of itself as a stone.

theunusualmoon:

...................
Hurting me! You are so illusioned.you really think you're emotionally stronger than I am because I expressed disgust at your unattractive mannerisms?
I feel nothing but pity when I run into an egg that thinks of itself as a stone.

Am glad you aren't hurt. Neither am I. Don't worry you can insult me if you want to,I don't feel a thing, I receive insult on a daily basis for my unattractive mannerisms that I am already dis-sensitized to it. It cool you aren't hurt,am glad

Dapo777:


Am glad you aren't hurt. Neither am I. Don't worry you can insult me if you want to,I don't feel a thing, I receive insult on a daily basis for my unattractive mannerisms that I am already dis-sensitized to it. It cool you aren't hurt,am glad

.............
Answer my question, do you think the tree could have been hidden?Do you think it was really a tree.? Or an apple as some believe?

theunusualmoon:

.............
Answer my question, do you think the tree could have been hiding?Do you think it was really a tree.? Or an apple as some believe?

Well from what I have been told and read,it's a literal tree and the fruit is also a literal fruit. What have you?

Dapo777:


Well from what I have been told and read,it's a literal tree and the fruit is also a literal fruit. What have you?

....................
I stand to be corrected cause no one can be absolutely sure on this but come to think of it.How come the first thing that happened to them after eating the fruit was realising they were naked? What kind of fruit could that be.If you have the answer then you'll know why GOD couldn't have hidden it.

theunusualmoon:

....................
I stand to be corrected cause no one can be absolutely sure on this but come to think of it.How come the first thing that happened to them after eating the fruit was realising they were naked? What kind of fruit could that be.If you have the answer then you'll why GOD couldn't have hidden it.

I don't know. Answer it urself

Dapo777:

I don't know. Answer it urself

....................
I am sure I've answered your question as regards why GOD left the tree in the midst of the garden.....
Goodnight.

theunusualmoon:

....................
I am sure I've answered your question as regards why GOD left the tree in the midst of the garden.....
Goodnight.

Hehehe,you haven't answered any of my questions,you have So far been asking questions, no answer whatsoever

Dapo777:


Hehehe,you haven't answered any of my questions,you have So far been asking questions, no answer whatsoever

.
...............
You mean after all I've written you still don't know what the forbidden fruit is?