TheEminentLaity:
Joseph1013

But being as inquisitive -simply out of genuine interest- as I am I just couldn’t last. The nauseating ignorance masquerading as faith within those circles made me question all the beliefs with its theological history and so I found most of their end-time/rapture beliefs -that sadly cause delusions ala MrPresident1 and annyplenty misinterpreted as prophecies/end-time/apocalyptic visions - and fraudulent teachings are fairly recent in christian history. So, I moved along with history, i.e. If christianity is true, towards Orthodoxy and discovered an almost entirely different doctrine and theology rich in history and tradition that resonates with the New Testament Church and the apostles; but here I am again, questioning everything, wholly embracing scepticism and learning and re-learning. It is honest and beautiful to say “I don’t know” There is nothing wrong with doubt/doubting - funny how these religions equate doubting with the worst of sins.

MrPresident1:


[s]My brother you are the one who is deluded and ignorant

Christ is risen from the dead and become the first fruits of them that slept simply means that you are a zombie until Jesus returns, because awaking from the dead is everyman in his own order.

So, my brother, you are the deluded one,[/s] and until Jesus returns, [s]you will continue to be a living breathing eating walking talking android zombie . Pray for the return of Christ, otherwise you will remain dead forever[/s]

TheEminentLaity:

I thought you prophesied that Jesus Christ was going to return in February Or did he leave you behind when he came? Continue in your bubble when/if eventually you wake up then you'll realise all the time/years you have wasted on living a delusion. This is another post for you to refer to when you wake up until then, have fun.

TheEminentLaity:
Joseph1013, you apostate, how dare you speak objectively about christianity? The impetus. You have not the Spirit so you can NEVER NEVER NEVER understand the things of God and the bible, NEVER!

But bros this is legendary, without a doubt, the best thread on NL. You have surely been immaculately regenerated with scientific knowledge and history. Amazing how even your writing improved as I read along…My adulations are too voluminous to type. In short, TWALE!! you be Man-wey-Sabi.

I read all 55 pages, very engaging and for the first time on this forum I didn’t want it to end. Indeed this is thought-provoking, full of insight with precise information. You surely make science, reading a lot, and speaking intelligently sexy. You have reignited my curiosity and opened my eyes to see - even as a scientist myself- that the not-so-obvious bubble of religiosity that exists within/around us, even in the minds of liberals, influence and hinder us somewhat from asking the most daring of questions about our existence. From James Randi to Probability to NDERF Man! I loved the probability talk. Amazing stuff. I would only share my thoughts.

Having an infantile christian background, I moved from atheism to 'finding Christ/getting saved’ into pentecostal Christianity. In my christian walk, I gradually turned towards fundamentalism - thanks to my church that was never short of other fundies to encourage me and make me feel comfortable being an arsehole towards 'non-believers’.

But being as inquisitive -simply out of genuine interest- as I am I just couldn’t last. The nauseating ignorance masquerading as faith within those circles made me question all the beliefs with its theological history and so I found most of their end-time/rapture beliefs -that sadly cause delusions ala MrPresident1 and annyplenty misinterpreted as prophecies/end-time/apocalyptic visions - and fraudulent teachings are fairly recent in christian history. So, I moved along with history, i.e. If christianity is true, towards Orthodoxy and discovered an almost entirely different doctrine and theology rich in history and tradition that resonates with the New Testament Church and the apostles; but here I am again, questioning everything, wholly embracing scepticism and learning and re-learning. It is honest and beautiful to say “I don’t know” There is nothing wrong with doubt/doubting - funny how these religions equate doubting with the worst of sins.

However, I still don’t think the Bible or Quran should be completely written off as total BS - at least not yet with my current level of knowledge, I guess you know better - even though it contains some of the most ridiculous stories. I don’t believe the true God of the universe -if any- told Moses/Joshua/Mohammed/Rev King or anybody to go slaughter/sacrifice, commit genocide or/and enslave humans and keep the virgins. God, the one synonymous with ‘god said/spoke/ministered to me’- does NOT speak to anybody. S/He/They have NEVER spoken to anyone. It’s all in our minds, many religious people only choose to justify their desires with god branding.

Religion itself isn’t entirely bad as you may have painted it. However, people need to know the facts, of which you have done quite well here, and be guided by it. As you may well know that the human brain, well capable of hypothetical thinking has limitations that tend towards cognitive heuristic biases towards possible outcomes. It retain aspects of information that writes a suitable story for us and not the entire story. History as well isn’t completely reliable as aptly coined by Napoleon ‘A fable agreed upon’ and it is the victors that write the story; but I agree with you that logic and science is much more reliable.

I don’t think anyone or anything is entirely good or evil and Abrahamic religions in spite of its bloody history has a lot of good - be it Illusory or not - in it. Religion in these parts restrains a lot of people. Think about all the potential domestic violence and almost-homicide cases doused by priests/pastors/imams/spiritual leaders. Going by these, it is safe to say that Africans would become even more barbaric savages without it.

Personally, hesychasm and prayer has made me become a much better person, in compassion and empathy especially in comparison with when I was an angry atheist. I’m sure it is like that for many others in religion. I think if one is a fundamentalist in religion it has to do more about the person than the religion because they most likely would go on to be fundamentalist/‘angry' atheists when they leave. A dishonest person wouldn’t be any less dishonest when s/he leaves religion.

Most people find religion by birth or through decisions during heightened emotional states. Rarely, if any, do people find religion through reason, certainly not the Abrahamic ones. The apologetics sure paint a fine picture for people who do not or have not the time to read these ‘holy' books but nonetheless, the god-of-the-gaps in religion has brought peace, responsibility, purpose and sanity to a good majority. We either see the glass half empty or half full. True religion (James 1:27) isn’t against science, I think it is rather ignorance emboldened by religion that is.

People do not function/behave outside of their reasoning capacities. Hence, if they knew better they simply wouldn’t do the things which you strongly condemn that are not in the least helpful to us as a people. Also, the fact that you know so much through your curiosity and vast reading habits is because you have access (food, money, a home, power, internet, experiences and books) that the majority are being continually denied of in these parts. The people in governments - a typical representation of the people - simply don’t know what education is and it’s value, if they did, they wouldn’t act the way they do.

I would, however, suggest that you see yourself not better than the religious ones but rather privileged to be able to educate, your reading habits could well go for as a pleasant disorder and of course, not many people read ‘boring’ stuff even if they had the same access you do. There is no need for condescension, as typical of many atheists in their disdain for religion. There is a thin line between learning during arguments and not wanting to lose by all means. You wouldn’t have known all these things if you had no teachers in your primary school and was starving for most parts of the day.

As a people, we have been robbed by the colonialists and we can only play catch-up. It will take a long time but little drops, like you have done here will go a long way. This one would certainly be in the archives.

A little addition of note ‘The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom’ is one pleasantly sounding untruth that has gone on for centuries.

Africans, it is rather fear that keeps us bound by toxic religions/oppression/indoctrination and there is absolutely no virtue in fear, none at all.

The acquisition of knowledge is the beginning of wisdom. Knowledge of scientific facts, laws and history that casts out all fear.

In all thy getting, get knowledge. There is no universal truth that would require defenders/apologetics/imperial powers of oppression to defend. Nobody goes about killing anyone that says the sky is purple.

Atheism is a personal journey of honest inquiry about long held beliefs but it does not provide an alternative to human’s religious nature neither does the truth about religion tell us why we are very prone to hold on to comforting superstitions. It is only rational that not many people would leave religion in spite of knowledge of its superstitions.

Throughout history, humans have always looked towards the divine in moments of fear, despair and great sorrow. It is convenient to analyse probability of events occurring hypothetically but in reality no one does that. Everyone including the most hardened of atheists in real moments would wonder and ask god/nature/spirits/whatever why a series of unfortunate events keep happening.

Also, what would a radical atheist tell a grieving mother who just lost all her children and husband in the same week? or what would a father tell his only surviving daughter that is grieved from the loss of her mother and other siblings in a plane crash?That they were all decomposing tissues and victims of unlikely probability? she isn’t going to see/meet them again? Someone said radical atheism is kind of disorder of hyperactivity of the left brain, there are many reasons to lean towards that suggestion.

Don’t stop writing Joseph1013, you are sage.

TheEminentLaity:
Throughout history, humans have always looked towards the divine in moments of fear, despair and great sorrow. It is convenient to analyse probability of events occurring hypothetically but in reality no one does that. Everyone including the most hardened of atheists in real moments would wonder and ask god/nature/spirits/whatever why a series of unfortunate events keep happening.

Also, what would a radical atheist tell a grieving mother who just lost all her children and husband in the same week? or what would a father tell his only surviving daughter that is grieved from the loss of her mother and other siblings in a plane crash?That they were all decomposing tissues and victims of unlikely probability? she isn’t going to see/meet them again? Someone said radical atheism is kind of disorder of hyperactivity of the left brain, there are many reasons to lean towards that suggestion.

TheEminentLaity:
Interesting

Let’s assume that humans discard all religions this moment and resolve never to bring them back, I would predict that in the shortest of times, they would invent several other gods and religions as replacement. I also think a similar outcome would be observed irrespective of previous religious/theistic knowledge/history. The gods in religions today are the ones people want to exist and has little to do with actual existence probably why many would continue to reject facts that do not affirm the comforting superstitions they hold.

Another factor I think is the propensity of majority, probably due to religious influences, to blame external circumstances/people/things for individual shortcomings so they invent mythical antagonists to suit that purpose. ‘the devil didn’t want me to succeed but...'

I also think atheistic/non-theistic dispositions about uncertainty very likely has a significant relationship with education or knowledge of methods/techniques towards demystifying uncertainty. It could be likened to behavioural differences between domesticated animals vs primal relatives.

But I still think it’s extremely apathetic to console anyone with the facts in grieving moments. It’s better to be all things to all men at grieving moments to avoid the risk of exacerbating issues and annoying people with facts.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

TheEminentLaity:
What do you think about preternatural phenomena like demonic possessions, exorcisms, haunted houses, ghosts, and the guys from 'The Conjuring’ movie. Did you experience any as a ‘spirit-filled-born-again-christian' and what are your explanations for these?

joseph1013:
TWO MISTAKES YOU SHOULD NEVER MAKE

Once you accept there is a supernatural realm, you're at risk. At that point nothing is too absurd for you to believe. This is when you risk becoming an apologist for the ridiculous. This descent into the absurd relies upon two thinking mistakes.

The first mistake is to accept there is a supernatural realm, when there is simply no valid reason to believe this is true.

The second mistake is to treat the existence of the supernatural, not as a possibility or a tentative conclusion based on speculative, fallible evidence, but as a self-evident premise that cannot be challenged. Once you have done this, you can build an entire world-view, using this premise as the foundation for further beliefs--such as a belief in gods, magical animals, invisible creatures, deadly curses and events that never happened and could never happen.

That is when you become lost to reason.

But there is a way back and it's simple. The way back is to understand these two foundational mistakes, and to think again.

stephenmorris:
joseph1013 if you have the homon deus pdf,can you please send it to my male like you did the homo sapiens own

joseph1013:


Email

stephenmorris:
xxxx@gmail.com

joseph1013:


Sent

joseph1013:
WHAT ARE THE FREAKING ODDS?

Christians and Muslims say God loves them so much that he created them to be the center of this enormous universe. Anytime I hear anyone say that, I cannot but chuckle.

Let me blow you away: There are more stars in space than there are grains of sand on every beach on Earth.

Let that sink in for a moment. Even more remarkably, there may be as much as 5 to 10 times more stars than there are grains of sand on all the world's beaches.

It hurts the brain to imagine, right? Well, let me blow you away a second time: If there are already more stars in the universe than there are grains of sand on the beaches, think about how many planets there are. There could be 2x to 10x more planets than stars.

To understand this, remember that our sun is a star and it has 9 or 8 (depending on whom you are listening to) planets orbiting it. So you have stars more than the grains of sand, then you definitely have many times more planets than stars.

So how can you be the center of the universe? What exactly are the odds?

My friend, go and sit down somewhere.

TheEminentLaity:
This might help https://www.quora.com/Hypothetically-if-there-is-intelligent-alien-life-with-the-knowledge-and-means-to-traverse-space-and-travel-to-Earth-what-would-be-their-reasons-for-not-making-contact-Please-read-details/answer/Yishan-Wong