Decypha:

Wow, I am disappointed and I apologise profusely for the the response from other South Africans concerning this topic. It is a hot-bed and emotional topic but let me try to offer my (hopefully) unbiased views concerning the 2008 incident.

Firstly, I should point out that the attacks were done by a minority of black South Africans; most black South Africans were shocked and ashamed by the events that took place in 2008. That is, most of us did not support the actions that took place in South Africa in 2008.

Honestly the tension was bubbling under though; most of us didn't expect it to explode like it did. And it is partly because of both the reasons you listed.

One thing I do take some offence to is this hint, from your post, that there are no black South Africans making use of the opportunities abound in the country. I suppose perhaps from your viewpoint you don't see it happening much but from where I am, in South Africa, I see far more South African black people making something of their opportunities than black people from other countries.

It is a work-in-progress though, unlike Nigeria, we have only had 20 years to wrap our heads around the freedom of and it is an impatient and fearful South African mind that lashed out at "foreign" Africans. Many people had expectations that once Apartheid ends their problems end as well but they hadn't expected that they would need to proactively pursue change. For them, instead, what happened is they saw an influx of foreigners that looked like they were taking all their opportunities while they sat around waiting for opportunities to come to them.

If you look at the attacks, they only happened in poor black areas in South Africa because those black people, in particular, are the ones who are most fearful. I apologise to everybody on behalf of my countrymen for the violence. I hope this isn't posted too late and that most people will chance upon it and understand that most South Africans were against the violence.

Why should people not make an effort to defend themselves and their country?

Anyway, I think that trying to explain the xenophobic violence and killings is a waste of time because people have long made up their minds based on what they saw on the media and what they heard from third parties. What they saw and heard is largely true but what they didn't see and didn't hear is also true. It's then up to the person to weigh up the two and reach whatever conclusion that suits them.

This is the same as how a few Nigerians commit different kinds of crimes in many countries all over the world and this leads to many people taking on a negative view of Nigeria and also having general animosity towards all Nigerians. Legit and upstanding Nigerians will make serious effort to prove that these are just a few unscrupulous rejects who form a minority of their society but that will seldom change a deeply held opinion of somebody who always sees stories of Nigerians being arrested for various crimes or Nigerians living good lives but appear not to be "working". In his mind all Nigerians are synonymous with what he sees and hears of them but most times what he sees is just half the picture.

Even though I think it's a waste of time to educate someone who already has strong believes contrary to your education it might help to create better understanding for those who are a little more open-minded

Decypha:

I actually only just read the comments now; it is sad how divided Africans still are. It is these divisions that made Africa such an easy place for Europeans to colonize.

I don't see anything wrong with competition. Besides I've come to realise that people(all people) are pretenders and it's internet portals like forums that allow people to expose their true but radical selves. So hate on a forum does not translate to hate on the ground in everyday life. If you read comments on various forums and news sites in SA(especially news24) you would think that black people and white people hate each other coz every little thing gets turned into "black this", "white this". But the truth is that black people and white people generally get along well. I consider that to be just competition, black people now consider themselves equal to and some superior to whites and now they challenge them anonymously on forums and message boards and it becomes a harmless racial fight.

I remember two or three months ago when Julius Malema attended his friends wedding in Mauritius. Juju's friend became a hot topic, black people were bragging that a black man is blowing millions on a wedding while white people were accusing him of benefiting from government contracts and it became one of those never-ending racial debates. But that does not mean that we're a divided country

paniki:
Why should people not make an effort to defend themselves and their country?

paniki:
If you read comments on various forums and news sites in SA(especially news24) you would think that black people and white people hate each other coz every little thing gets turned into "black this", "white this". But the truth is that black people and white people generally get along well.

This is my experience too. Personally, I’ve never experienced any racial problems from others in this country. I’ve always known South Africans to be very friendly. Outsiders don’t seem to understand us. We aren’t afraid to talk about racial issues here which is why it really isn’t as big a deal when issues arise as it seems to those on the outside looking in. A black guy and a white one can have a very lively verbal debate about race the one minute, while the next they are having a braai together. So I guess I can understand why outsiders don’t get us.

paniki:
Juju's friend became a hot topic, black people were bragging that a black man is blowing millions on a wedding while white people were accusing him of benefiting from government contracts and it became one of those never-ending racial debates. But that does not mean that we're a divided country

We are actually far more united than some people realize. Sure there are those with extreme views, but the vast majority of us know full well that we need one another. Our various histories are intertwined and we are all part of each other. No one in their right mind can deny that. I love being a South African and forming a laager is part of who we are.

@sa lassie
thats easy for u to say now but during apartheid like 23 years back, where u born then? how id u feel about blacks in general

u boers are just creeps preying on the blacks inferiority complex, which normal person will be robbed,oppressed, pillaged for more than a century and still give his oppressors full rights when he becomes free

E-Engineer:
thats easy for u to say now but during apartheid like 23 years back, where u born then? how id u feel about blacks in general

Why are you asking this as if you personally remember and experienced apartheid? You are 27 and Nigerian! Yes, I remember those days. I grew up very near a little black village and we were able to interact on a daily basis without any interference from authorities. Later when some of them moved into a township it was a bit harder and we had to wait until nightfall to go visit as to not attract the attention of the cops. Decades later I am still in contact with two of those guys I grew up with. You are so blinded by the system of that time, that you completely ignore relationships between individuals.

E-Engineer:
u boers are just creeps preying on the blacks inferiority complex,

You just showed your ignorance about SA with the “boer” comment. BTW, SA blacks don’t have an inferiority complex. Your projecting.

E-Engineer:
which normal person will be robbed,oppressed, pillaged for more than a century and still give his oppressors full rights when he becomes free

People far better than you, clearly. I’m so tired of foreign black and white people like you who want South Africans to hate one another because of your issues. How often do you even talk to white people face to face? Probably not much in Nigeria. You have to keep in mind that in SA the various races talk everyday. We are not strangers to one another. Please, leave us to keep sorting our problems out on our own, and take the hate elsewhere.

@sa lassie, can u confidently tell me that the relationship btw blacks and whites in sa is healthy
when a white woman wont let her child go near a black man, u folks are still bloody racists, even if u are different, uclearly dont speak for every afrikaaner[boer] out there, to ur white brothers u r just plain weird

E-Engineer:

@sa lassie, can u confidently tell me that the relationship btw blacks and whites in sa is healthy
when a white woman wont let her child go near a black man, u folks are still bloody racists, even if u are different, uclearly dont speak for every afrikaaner[boer] out there, to your white brothers u r just plain weird

You're funny dude. I guess it's misconceptions such as what you expressed that make people who "know" laugh at you. It's true that there are many white racists just like they are now many black racists(I personally know a few) but what you must understand is that black and white and coloured and indian South Africans have developed a cordial working relationship. Generally black, white, coloured and indian people stick to themselves in terms of close friendships, love and those other things but we all meet at work and work forces us to get along. My facebook friends are majority black people but the lot who are white are mainly guys who I work with and a few who I went to varsity with. Same applies to many South Africans - check their facebook friends

You're funny dude. I guess it's misconceptions such as what you expressed that make people who "know" laugh at you.



Hey dude, i will advise u to neva make this statement again, i hope you r reading this clearly, neva say that again in ur life

Instead of nigerians to face up to their real enemy - the white man who as we speak is stealing and making away with the wealth of nigeria right under their noses they focus on black south africans who are still powerless in their own country.

white south africans still own 99% of the wealth of south africa - thats why the majority of them remained behind even after apartheid supposedly ended.

a few fled to europe and america after the ANC came to power but many of these people have run back to south africa because they know they are better off living off their stolen wealth in a land that does not belong to them.

Mandela ended up negotiating away the future of the black south africans who are now discovering that they are still in economic bondage to their former slave masters.

Nigerians should realise that their situation is not that much better than black south africans - in nigeria the ruling elite serve the interests of their white masters and dont give a damn about the nigerian populace just like the new black elite in south africa.

In fact in many ways black south africans are better off than nigerians because at least they have some sort of welfare system in place which caters for the poor blacks whereas in nigeria the elite treat the nigerian masses like sh.it and provide them with nothing.

paniki:

You're funny dude. I guess it's misconceptions such as what you expressed that make people who "know" laugh at you. It's true that there are many white racists just like they are now many black racists(I personally know a few) but what you must understand is that black and white and coloured and indian South Africans have developed a cordial working relationship. Generally black, white, coloured and indian people stick to themselves in terms of close friendships, love and those other things but we all meet at work and work forces us to get along. My facebook friends are majority black people but the lot who are white are mainly guys who I work with and a few who I went to varsity with. Same applies to many South Africans - check their facebook friends

the only reason white south africans "get along" with blacks in south africa is because the whites are still in control of your economy, their wealth is intact and their status and position in your country is not threatened - the day any black south african comes to power to redress this imbalance is the day that you will have a repeat of what happened in zimbabwe, the whites will get the hell out of the country and europe and america will gang up to destroy south africa. What you have in south africa between whites and blacks is just a case of whites bamboozling some dim blacks into beleiving that you are all one big happy family, why dont you suggest that all of that wealth that those whites stole from you be redistributed in order to compensate blacks for 300 years of exploitation and abuse under apartheid - lets see just how long this your rainbow coalition thingy will last after that.

Bleep it naijas, most educated in africa,gaint of africa and proud africans, true africans, my ass. your 1 mill universities are wack,gaint of africa by population, your country is a match box way too populated and dependent on oil alone. who gives a damn about being african, if your country is all mighty and all that why are you bothering people in their countries, and ohhhhwww about aids its ours,we live with it, we love pple who have it. stop mentioning it in every topic, or you want us to be ashamed NO THAT SHIT WILL NEVER HAPPEN, and yeh we also kill people so what, rape. do you have a problem with that. and again about white pple, they love this country, if south africa is so rich and prosperous because of them SO WHAT, u have 60 years or whatever donkeys years of independence and your country is still bleeped up, ALL THE ILLS AND THE BAD THINGS YOU KNOW MY BELOVED COUNTRY OF: THATS WHAT MAKES US SOUTH AFRICANS, AND MORPHEUOS OR WHATEVER AND YOUR CREW Bleep U AND Bleep U. YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER BOUT ME AND MY COUNTRY I DONT GIVE A DAMN. BUT FACT IS YOUR COUNTRY IS WORSE, WORSE AND WORSE. AND BEFORE YOU TELL ME HOW ILLITERATE I AM: I WORK AS MANAGEMENT ANALYST, AT A REPUTABLE ASSET MANAGEMENT COMPANY: Bleep YOU VERY MUCH,

kgr28:

bleep it naijas, most educated in africa,gaint of africa and proud africans, true africans, my Bottom. your 1 mill universities are wack,gaint of africa by population, your country is a match box way too populated and dependent on oil alone. who gives a damn about being african, if your country is all mighty and all that why are you bothering people in their countries, and ohhhhwww about aids its ours,we live with it, we love pple who have it. stop mentioning it in every topic, or you want us to be ashamed NO THAT poo WILL NEVER HAPPEN, and yeh we also kill people so what, violation. do you have a problem with that. and again about white pple, they love this country, if south africa is so rich and prosperous because of them SO WHAT, u have 60 years or whatever donkeys years of independence and your country is still bleeped up, ALL THE ILLS AND THE BAD THINGS YOU KNOW MY BELOVED COUNTRY OF: THATS WHAT MAKES US SOUTH AFRICANS, AND MORPHEUOS OR WHATEVER AND YOUR CREW bleep U AND bleep U. YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER BOUT ME AND MY COUNTRY I DONT GIVE A DAMN. BUT FACT IS YOUR COUNTRY IS WORSE, WORSE AND WORSE. AND BEFORE YOU TELL ME HOW ILLITERATE I AM: I WORK AS MANAGEMENT ANALYST, AT A REPUTABLE ASSET MANAGEMENT COMPANY: bleep YOU VERY MUCH,

Soon you will calm down and accept that not everyone loves South Africa. Initially I used to get very irritated by the usually incorrect as well as disparaging comments against South Africa but now I just laugh. I read all the comments in this thread and all I did was laugh, I suggest you learn to do the same

cap28:

the only reason white south africans "get along" with blacks in south africa is because the whites are still in control of your economy, their wealth is intact and their status and position in your country is not threatened - the day any black south african comes to power to redress this imbalance is the day that you will have a repeat of what happened in zimbabwe, the whites will get the hell out of the country and europe and america will gang up to destroy south africa. What you have in south africa between whites and blacks is just a case of whites bamboozling some dim blacks into beleiving that you are all one big happy family, why dont you suggest that all of that wealth that those whites stole from you be redistributed in order to compensate blacks for 300 years of exploitation and abuse under apartheid - lets see just how long this your rainbow coalition thingy will last after that.

Firstly, it doesn't matter how you rationalize it to yourself, the truth will remain the truth.

Secondly, white South Africans didn't steal wealth as you claim, they created it themselves. It is only fair if they are allowed to keep the wealth which they created and leave black South Africans to create their own wealth alongside them. That's what BEE is all about, white businesses are not forced to comply with that policy. It's only if they want to do business with the now black led government that they must comply.

Lastly, nationhood in South Africa exists mainly thanks to international events that we have successfully hosted since 1994. These events bring people together to work towards a single goal and when that goal is achieved it creates comradeship, pride and a sense of oneness within many. Had South Africa not hosted any international event since 1994 I'm sure we would be a hopelessly divided nation filled with people who would only identify success within ethnic and geographical boundaries because of the lack of national success.

paniki:

Firstly, it doesn't matter how you rationalize it to yourself, the truth will remain the truth.

Secondly, white South Africans didn't steal wealth as you claim, they created it themselves. It is only fair if they are allowed to keep the wealth which they created and leave black South Africans to create their own wealth alongside them. That's what BEE is all about, white businesses are not forced to comply with that policy. It's only if they want to do business with the now black led government that they must comply.

Lastly, nationhood in South Africa exists mainly thanks to international events that we have successfully hosted since 1994. These events bring people together to work towards a single goal and when that goal is achieved it creates comradeship, pride and a sense of oneness within many. Had South Africa not hosted any international event since 1994 I'm sure we would be a hopelessly divided nation filled with people who would only identify success within ethnic and geographical boundaries because of the lack of national success.

If you create wealth using stolen land and stolen labour - surely that wealth you have created is stolen as well?

Its like saying an armed robber goes into a bank steals over £1m and then reinvests the money on the stock market and makes an additional profit of £2m and then turns around to crow about their business ingenuity and wealth creation skills - the point is they stole their initial investment to get what they have today and not only did they steal they excluded and marginalised blacks who are the rightful owners of the raw materials and land and are still doing that till today.

the idea that black south africans can now somehow be able to compete with white south africans after 300 years of systematic exploitation indicates just how brainwashed , naive or both you are.

Its like pitting a cripple and an olympic champion sprinter together in one race.

how do black south africans compete with whites who own the major corporations, the banks, the insurance companies, the schools etc - what do you think will be the outcome of such competition?

white south africans owe black south africans because they have an unfair advantage over them, this unfair advantage was not brought about by their hard work and ingenuity but by their theft of resources that belonged to the blacks as well as the subsequent brutalisation and exploitation of these same people. the white south africans are supposed to pay the blacks reparation for all the misery, poverty and endless suffering that they subjected them to.

and by the way nationhood is not created as a result of different groups engaging in sports together - nationhood is created when a group of people who share a similar culture or language come together to promote a shared interest - black south africans and white south africans do not share similar languages or culture, one group was victimised and abused by the other and the other imposed their language and culture on the other forcing the weaker group to go along with it. This is why so many blacks in south africa are still filled with anger - their needs have not been met and they are still being short changed by a system which was designed to keep them poor and exploited.

sa_lassie:



This is my experience too.  Personally, I’ve never experienced any racial problems from others in this country.  I’ve always known South Africans to be very friendly.  Outsiders don’t seem to understand us.  We aren’t afraid to talk about racial issues here which is why it really isn’t as big a deal when issues arise as it seems to those on the outside looking in.

[size=14pt]BULLSH1T![/size] Source: First hand experience.

sa_lassie:


A black guy and a white one can have a very lively verbal debate about race the one minute, while the next they are having a braai together.  

While the next they are having a braai together=While the next one of the guys is getting braaied.


[size=14pt]Zolzlolz needs to go and puke.[/size]

This response is going to be a little bit incoherent, because I am so fvcking angry and upset at the lies that imposter SA LASSIE is telling.
The truth about South Africa sa lassie doesn't want you to know about(IMPOSTER)
1) South Africans HATE each other. The opinions expressed on South African newsites are absolutely revolting. These are NEWSITES, not racist forums, and yet the messages that White South Africans leave on these newsites are 10 TIMES WORSE[/b]than a White Supremacist site called Stormfront. I've been on stormfront out of curiosity, and the comments on the American chapter of Stormfront do not even compare, to the comments made by White South Africans, on a news site. Even in a topic regarding things besides race, the comments always turn into racist vitrol.

2) Sa lassie lied(of course, she's an imposter) about South Africans being open about race in South Africa. That's fvucking bullsh1t, and it's insulting to me and all other blacks who have interacted with White South Africans. White South Africans(the ones in the real world) are notoriously defensive when it comes to race. For black people to get along well with Whites, they have to self censor themselves, or else you get the following qoutes from the "Words of White Wisdom":
-[b]"Stop playing the race card"
-"Not everything is about race. Get over it"
-"Why do you speak so much about race. A person who is obsessed with race is also racist" (BULL)
-"You have a massive chip on your shoulder" (I think sa lassie used this one a while back. Ooooooh)
-"I don't want to talk about race. It's too depressing." (I was a victim of this one)
White South Africans do not like to talk about race in South Africa (unless they are the victims or are making themselves the victims, oh my goodness then they always talk about it) not because it's a depressing topic(I myself don't like speaking about race sometimes, because it's too emotionally draining), IT IS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT TO FACE THE TRUTH. They are in denial about the history of this country. They say that they had nothing to do with it (translate: I DID NOTHING). They don't want to admit that they are the architects of institutional racism in this country. They don't want to talk about the effects of their racism, because once people talk about a problem, the problem has to be fixed. They don't wan to fix the problem because that means they will lose their economically dominant position in South Africa. Sa lassie may go and feed the poor little black children in the townships to feel better about herself and to have something to brag about at her dinner parties (and on Nairaland, and I see she already has), but does she support stolen land being given back to Black South Africans? Does she support Affirmative Action? Does she understand the objective Affirmative Action, without playing victim as all other White South Africans( the ones in the REAL WORLD. The ones that I have encountered) do? Does she really want to see initiatives that would bring economic equality among races in South Africa. Would she really be comfortable if the White monopoly economy is toppled in South Africa?

Sa lassie is the WORST kind of White a Black person can encounter. Apart from her blatant patronising attitude towards blacks(I'm so proud of my little South African blacks, they don't confront me about my racism, we just talk about boerewors, braai, die bokke and the spirit of oh-bow-ntoo, I feel like buying a South African flag ah hahaha) she refuses to face the truth about race in South Africa. She sees this pretentious get together braais, between black and whites, and her hanging out at the townships with blacks as racial progress. Yet I doubt she sees how the institutional racism that still exists in this country, continues to negatively affect black South Africans and in fact hinder racial progress. My racial progress translates to the economic progress of blacks since democracy, not some cheap get together braai sa lassie is imagining about between blacks an whites. smh

cap28:

If you create wealth using stolen land and stolen labour - surely that wealth you have created is stolen as well?

You don't know enough about South Africa's history if you think that land and labour were stolen or maybe I should say you know half the history and you are using that half knowledge to formulate a full opinion.

cap28:

the idea that black south africans can now somehow be able to compete with white south africans after 300 years of systematic exploitation indicates just how brainwashed , naive or both you are.

The good thing is that black people are not interested in competing with white people but are more focused in creating their own success through whatever legal means they choose.

cap28:

how do black south africans compete with whites who own the major corporations, the banks, the insurance companies, the schools etc - what do you think will be the outcome of such competition?

It has not, is not and probably will not be about racial competition since those major corporations already have significant black shareholdership thanks to BEE

cap28:

white south africans owe black south africans because they have an unfair advantage over them, this unfair advantage was not brought about by their hard work and ingenuity but by their theft of resources that belonged to the blacks as well as the subsequent brutalisation and exploitation of these same people. the white south africans are supposed to pay the blacks reparation for all the misery, poverty and endless suffering that they subjected them to.

This is juvenile thinking. Whites owe us nothing, South Africa is better off because of think-work done by white people, it is their inventiveness that has put South Africa at a higher level compared to other African countries. Black South Africans like me are lucky because the end of Apartheid allowed us to move into and then expand the formal systems that were long established by the whites. We are not like other African countries that had to start-up agencies from scratch, we probably would have failed. We just got the engine in top shape and running, black man just took the drivers seat and white man sat in the passenger seat and taught black man how to run a government and all other institutions. It has not been perfect but we are managing.

I'm one of many black South Africans who don't give a damn what white South Africans do or did or all that jazz, I'm more interested in creating my own success. The thing that I also do, which some don't like, is to acknowledge white mans contribution to South Africa. I grew up in Tembisa township in a matchbox house built by the white government, all of old Soweto, Alex, Katlehong, Vosloorus and others were built by the white government. Yes, blacks like to own these townships and refer fondly to them as if they built them but it's the whites who built most townships in Jozi. Black parents don't have to send their kids abroad because whites built world-class universities in our backyard. Basically if whites owe us anything then they have repaid us by grudgingly allowing us to use first-rate facilities which are now making it easier for us to make something of ourselves

cap28:

and by the way nationhood is not created as a result of different groups engaging in sports together - nationhood is created when a group of people who share a similar culture or language come together to promote a shared interest - black south africans and white south africans do not share similar languages or culture, one group was victimised and abused by the other and the other imposed their language and culture on the other forcing the weaker group to go along with it.  This is why so many blacks in south africa are still filled with anger - their needs have not been met and they are still being short changed by a system which was designed to keep them poor and exploited.

This again shows your simpleton thinking. People want to associate themselves with success, America is seen to be a very successful country that's why so many Americans are proud to be American it has nothing to do with language or culture or any other nonsensical point. South Africans are proud to be South African because this country has achieved many successes recognized to most people around the world including yourselves even though you might not admit. A week or two ago UN delegates were showering SA with praise for successfully hosting the UN climate change talks COP 17 in Durban. It is this sort of feedback that creates a warm fuzzy feeling among South Africans and ultimately a sense of oneness that we are a nation of doers and achievers and not a nation of just black, white, coloured and indian. Race and racial tension exists but it doesn't define us.

@zolzlolz how many white people do you know?

paniki:

@zolzlolz how many white people do you know?

I went to school with white people(I was one of 7 black kids out of 180 children), I go to a university with white people, I live in a predominantly white neighbourhood, I read newspapers that are geared towards the white middle class. My mother works with, or should I say under white people. So I think I know what I'm talking about damnit!

zolzlolz:

I went to school with white people(I was one of 7 black kids out of 180 children), I go to a university with white people, I live in a predominantly white neighbourhood, I read newspapers that are geared towards the white middle class. My mother works with, or should I say under white people. So I think I know what I'm talking about damnit!

OK, of all the white people that you know do you tell them about all that you've been ranting about or are those views that you only reserve to be expressed anonymously on internet forums? Or are you buddy buddy with them in real life and only the radical zolzlolz is unleashed in cyber life?

paniki:

You don't know enough about South Africa's history if you think that land and labour were stolen or maybe I should you know half the history and you are using that half knowledge to formulate a full opinion.

Can you tell me how the 1913 Native Land Act which prohibited Black South Africans from owning 87% of the land, and later, because of Apartheid policy prohibited blacks from living in 87% of South African without a pass is somehow justified? Thank you.

paniki:

OK, of all the white people that you know do you tell them about all that you've been ranting about or are those views that you only reserve to be expressed anonymously on internet forums? Or are you buddy buddy with them in real life and only the radical zolzlolz is unleashed in cyber life?

Well I try, but I am repeatedly self-censored, by people like your lassie who choose to pretend that race relations in South Africa is all sunshine and roses. And why are my views radical? It's the truth!

zolzlolz:

Well I try, but I am repeatedly self-censored, by people like your lassie who choose to pretend that race relations in South Africa is all sunshine and roses. And why are my views radical? It's the truth!

Haha, you just lost credibility. You allow yourself to be censored in a free country. I would have more respect for you if you openly told white people what you think of them like members of the ANCYL now you blame white people for not allowing you to say what you think. Ag shame, you still oppressed

zolzlolz:

Can you tell me how the 1913 Native Land Act which prohibited Black South Africans from owning 87% of the land, and later, because of Apartheid policy prohibited blacks from living in 87% of South African without a pass is somehow justified? Thank you.

I don't want to give you a history lesson because it will mainly be snippets that will led you to draw incorrect conclusions. What you must research for yourselves is how black chiefs bartered away land the same way they agreed to the bantustans you must also research how most of what is now South African land was uninhabited so it's foolish for blacks to claim that land in many parts of South Africa belongs to them when no black man, except a few Khoisan, has ever set foot(even till today). The Native Land Act didn't take away land it just formalised segregation and it paved the way for the establishment of what later became bantustans demarcated according to where the majority of black people lived. From that Transkei, Bophuthatswana, Venda, Ciskei became independent black states. The Apartheid government gave away huge chunks of South Africa under it's policy of separate development. I can go on but I don't want to confuse you. The problem with many people is that they don't know the full history of South Africa which leads them to draw laughable conclusions

paniki:

Haha, you just lost credibility. You allow yourself to be censored in a free country. I would have more respect for you if you openly told white people what you think of them like members of the ANCYL now you blame white people for not allowing you to say what you think. Ag shame, you still oppressed

For someone who can ask me how many white people I've talked to based on a disbelief of what I had written about race relations between whites and blacks in South Africa, I'm not completely sure that you yourself have tried to discuss race relations with South African Whites. Paniki, maximum respect to you if you can continue to shout on top of your voice to deaf ears. Whites don't want to hear the truth! My life also doesn't revolve around Whites. I cannot plead with a White to listen to the truth, when what I say will go in one ear and out the other. I was confrontational when I believed in this notion of a rainbow nation, that every opinion is appreciated. But since I found it not to be true, I don't try anymore because I'm not going to be listened. White people don't listen to anything a black says if it's something they disagree with. I don't care about them anymore, their salvation is in their hands. It's not my duty. But I will NOT self censor myself when people start lying about race relations in South Africa. Especially when they know the truth and want to hide it.

I guess I'll do more research and read 'Native Life' then.

I guess I'll do more research and read 'Native Life' then.

I guess I'll do more research and read 'Native Life' then.

zolzlolz:

For someone who can ask me how many white people I've talked to based on a disbelief of what I had written about race relations between whites and blacks in South Africa, I'm not completely sure that you yourself have tried to discuss race relations with South African Whites. Paniki, maximum respect to you if you can continue to shout on top of your voice to deaf ears. Whites don't want to hear the truth! My life also doesn't revolve around Whites. I cannot plead with a White to listen to the truth, when what I say will go in one ear and out the other. I was confrontational when I believed in this notion of a rainbow nation, that every opinion is appreciated. But since I found it not to be true, I don't try anymore because I'm not going to be listened. White people don't listen to anything a black says if it's something they disagree with. I don't care about them anymore, their salvation is in their hands. It's not my duty. But I will NOT self censor myself when people start lying about race relations in South Africa. Especially when they know the truth and want to hide it.

It's oppressed people like you who want to be listen to by whites and when that doesn't happen you then throw tantrums on forums without fighting issues the way real South Africans do it: face-to-face. Anyway, why do you want white people to listen to you? Do you value them that much? You need to grow up and replace your slave mentality with something more of a progressive consciousness. Or move to Joburg where people are more liberated and actually get along. You should never use Cape Town as a barometer for SA, that city is beautiful but cliquey and mega racist(although concealed) arguably the most divided place in South Africa. I spent 2 years at UCT so I know how Cape Town is like, terrible place for a black person even whites who move there find it difficult to deal with the snobs

Also, I don't have to discuss race relations with South African whites because I have no issues with them, they are just people like me and you and I realised that a long time ago.

zolzlolz:

I guess I'll do more research and read 'Native Life' then.

You should

paniki:

You don't know enough about South Africa's history if you think that land and labour were stolen or maybe I should say you know half the history and you are using that half knowledge to formulate a full opinion.

So are you saying that the land was handed over voluntarily to the white man? or was it just lying vacant with no one laying claim to it ?

why were your people herded onto reservations and used by whites as cheap labour in the mines?
i suppose you're going to tell me that black south africans chose to be used and exploited by whites rather than be in control of their own affairs?

The good thing is that black people are not interested in competing with white people but are more focused in creating their own success through whatever legal means they choose.

well, you will soon find out that every thing in life is a competition - especially where resources are limited.

blacks can't create their own success when they don't have any control over the means of making money - everythign in your country which generates wealth remains in the hands of the whites.

It has not, is not and probably will not be about racial competition since those major corporations already have significant black shareholdership thanks to BEE

Im glad you said "probably" because wherever the white man goes it is ALWAYS about racial competition - do you know of any nation on this earth where whites live where race is not important? Even in your country where they are the minority they have turned your country upside down by making race the determinant of success, they even went as far as legalising racial discrimination - everywhere they go on this earth they implement this same formula of racial hierarchy where they place themselves at the top and blacks at the bottom of the socio economic ladder.

This is juvenile thinking. Whites owe us nothing, South Africa is better off because of think-work done by white people, it is their inventiveness that has put South Africa at a higher level compared to other African countries. Black South Africans like me are lucky because the end of Apartheid allowed us to move into and then expand the formal systems that were long established by the whites. We are not like other African countries that had to start-up agencies from scratch, we probably would have failed. We just got the engine in top shape and running, black man just took the drivers seat and white man sat in the passenger seat and taught black man how to run a government and all other institutions. It has not been perfect but we are managing.

hahaha you are completely brainwashed and delusional - the biggest trick the white man ever played on the black man was to convince him to accept his lowly position in the world, i dont know how you can say what you said above with a straight face - "they owe you nothing"  - you are a joker! look at what they did to your ancestors and you say they owe you nothing, they took your own land away from you and you say they owe you nothing- they passed laws preventing your from going beyond a primary school education, they passed laws preventing you from owning land or property and being able to be self sufficient and you say they owe  you nothing - you are a joker!

they've even convinced you that you are not intellectually up to scratch and without any trace of embarrassment you actually talk about them doing all the "think work" arent you embarrassed to make such a statement?

You say they've put south africa at a higher level compared to other african countries - but at whose expense? who is enjoying the fruits of your labour (because it was your labour that built south africa not theirs)  you or them? can't you see that you have been abused and cheated? yes, they developed the country - but only for themselves - they used your labour to develop the country which has enabled them to live like kings  while the majority black population live in townships wallowing away in poverty.

you are mistaking the few crumbs that they have allowed you to enjoy as wealth - you still depend on them for employment which means you are vulnerable to any changes that they may decide to implement.

the reason south africa is more developed than other african countries is becasue the white settlers came there with the aim of remaining permanently unlike the other african countries where they came for one purpose alone - to ra.pe, pillage and plunder, they were not interested in settling in any west african country becasue of the hot climate  hence their decision to limit the level of development in those countries.  

Take congo for instance which has trillions of dollars worth of minerals in its soil - the whites did not settle there because of the stiflingly hot climate, instead King Leopold of Belgium chose to STEAL the entire country and then when the great patrice lumumba fought for independence the belgians along with the americans decided to have him murdered so that they could carry on milking the resources of congo for next to nothing.  

You better wake up and smell the coffee and realise that south africa was developed for the settlement of whites not blacks.  You need to ask yourself why HIV aids is almost running at epidemic levels in all of the southern african countries that have large settlements of whites - ITS BECAUSE THEY WANT ALL OF YOU DEAD so that you will no longer be in the way of their plans.

HIV aids is a biological weapon which was created by US military intelligence in a laboratory in 1969 and it was initially used by your former apartheid govt to decimate the black population of mainly southern african countries.  Havent you noticed how HIV aids is prevalent in areas of africa with climates which are conducive to europeans?  In addition these areas are also rich in natural resources.

I'm one of many black South Africans who don't give a damn what white South Africans do or did or all that jazz, I'm more interested in creating my own success. The thing that I also do, which some don't like, is to acknowledge white mans contribution to South Africa. I grew up in Tembisa township in a matchbox house built by the white government, all of old Soweto, Alex, Katlehong, Vosloorus and others were built by the white government. Yes, blacks like to own these townships and refer fondly to them as if they built them but it's the whites who built most townships in Jozi. Black parents don't have to send their kids abroad because whites built world-class universities in our backyard. Basically if whites owe us anything then they have repaid us by grudgingly allowing us to use first-rate facilities which are now making it easier for us to make something of ourselves

yeah they built those townships because they needed to have a steady supply of cheap black labour close by to work in the mines - it was done for THEIR convenience not to help you in any way.  Those so called world class universites that you are boasting about teach you to feel ashamed of your blackness and look up to the whites and going by all of the stuff you posted on here it looks like its working.  You are being brainwashed and made to feel grateful towards people who brutalised and abused your parents and grand parents generations.  

This again shows your simpleton thinking. People want to associate themselves with success, America is seen to be a very successful country that's why so many Americans are proud to be American it has nothing to do with language or culture or any other nonsensical point. South Africans are proud to be South African because this country has achieved many successes recognized to most people around the world including yourselves even though you might not admit. A week or two ago UN delegates were showering SA with praise for successfully hosting the UN climate change talks COP 17 in Durban. It is this sort of feedback that creates a warm fuzzy feeling among South Africans and ultimately a sense of oneness that we are a nation of doers and achievers and not a nation of just black, white, coloured and indian. Race and racial tension exists but it doesn't define us.

You obviously know nothing about america - america is a segregated country with blacks living a separate and unequal existence from their white counterparts - dont forget blacks in america were only allowed the right to vote in 1968, black people in america live in separate neighbourhoods, attend separate schools and socialise away from white americans.  The system there (just like in  your country) was set up deliberately by the white power structure in order to keep blacks permanently in a position of subservience and that is exactly what your white minority rulers have done to you.
The so called success you brag about is not enjoyed by the majority of blacks in south africa only a few black elites enjoy this so called success.  The system was designed by and for the white racists who still control your economy and they are the ones enjoying the success not the blacks.

marginalized and oppressed Nigerians and South Africans are futher marginalizing and oppressing themselves in this thread with who or Whom is the least marginalized when in reality WHITE SUPREMACY is runnin rampant in both countries.

groundbreaking

all non white people are marginalized