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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? (10167 Views)
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Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Nobody: 10:24am On Sep 02, 2015 |
johnw74: I believe those scriptures, I believe that if we go to the original and see how the Hebrew/Greek words are used, the search can be revealing. |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Nobody: 10:33am On Sep 02, 2015 |
johnw74: Will it not be helpful if we search the original and see who is changing what the scripture says? You know too well that i can view u as the devil because ur stand. But if we go on calling evil on another without even proving the reason why there stand is wrong, would that be plausible? If u are so sure of ur stand, let's discuss this with open mind. I assure u, u are going to meet a surprise. |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by dolphinheart(m): 3:58pm On Sep 02, 2015 |
johnw74: For the benefit of others who seek the truth, can you provide answers to the question if you know it? One who is assured of the truth Ib his words will be ready to discuss his beliefs always. You believe in something, then let's discuss it here, no fighting, no abusive speech, so that I, you and others on these thread will get a better understanding of the truth. If its ok by you , can we start with 1 Timothy 3:16 ? One of the bible verses you quoted. 1 Like |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Emusan(m): 11:00pm On Sep 02, 2015 |
dolphinheart: One mistake that people who raised questions like these are making is the INABILITY to distinguish between when The Word of God entered the creation and was given the name Jesus and His preexisting life from eternity. (1) does jesus have a God? When He took on flesh(became part of creations) the Father will automatically be His God as the Father is God for every creations. (2) was jesus sent ? Yes to earth by His Father. (3) who sent jesus ? His Father! (4) who do you think is superior , jesus or the one who sent him . The Father is superior IN AUTHORITY/POSITION than Him. (5) is jesus the father? He is not the PERSON of the Father but He is an EVERLASTING FATHER Isaiah 9:6 which placed Him in Equality with the Father. In fact this is one of the verses that spelled out the Deity of Jesus. (6) if you think jesus is not the father, who do you think deserves our worship , jesus , the father or both ? The worship giving to Jesus is also for the Father no difference because "That ALL (including JWs) may HONOR THE SON, [size=14pt]EVEN AS[/size] they (including JWs) HONOR the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth the Father which hath sent him" John 5:23 Let me ask you this maybe you can answer it since JWs I've asked always dance around and swept over it, do you honour the Father through your worship or In what way do you honour the Father? Remember Jesus said [size=14pt]"...EVEN AS/JUST AS..."[/size] *Note: Don't ridicule your post by now giving me the definition of the word 'Honour' from dictionary. (7 ) is Christ under subjection to anybody ? Then do the Trinitarian ever claim that Jesus is superior than His Father? It's better you get a Trinity book and read for your own benefit and leave everything Watchtower had told you about Trinity because it never presents Trinity the way Trinitarian teaches. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by johnw74: 12:28am On Sep 03, 2015 |
paulGrundy: jw wouldn't know the diffrence between a letter box and an Elephant's behind don't send them to post your letters. |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by johnw74: 12:29am On Sep 03, 2015 |
Q. what do Elephant's do when they see jw coming A. RUN |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Maamin(m): 1:52am On Sep 03, 2015 |
Emusan: "THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I" - Jesus Christ A.D 33 |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Maamin(m): 2:10am On Sep 03, 2015 |
johnw74: "THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I" - Jesus Christ A.D 33 1 Like |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by johnw74: 2:11am On Sep 03, 2015 |
JMANO5: dolphinheart: jw are completely unable to accept the truth, scriptures, and what people say johnw74: |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by johnw74: 2:23am On Sep 03, 2015 |
Maamin: Yet Jesus Christ considered Himself equal with the Father, because along with the Father He is God. Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The scriptures are true, believe them, if you use scripture against scripture, (strike out one and believe the other) it's because you don't know or understand the scriptures. Maamin: |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by johnw74: 2:51am On Sep 03, 2015 |
Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. The LORD possessed the Word before His works of old, if the Lord had created the Word then that would have been a work, but the LORD possesses the Word before His works of old. John 1:1 is a second witness to possessed being the right word in Proverbs 8:22, Joh 1:1 ....the Word was with God, the Word was with God, (not, the Word was created by God.) Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me Joh 1:1 ....the Word was with God |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Maamin(m): 2:57am On Sep 03, 2015 |
johnw74: i understand the scripture perfectly well...we are also in the form of God i.e (image of God), does that makes us equal with God also? NO! yet the scripture can not be broken, is high time we quit making the scripture interpret our own desire. "being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God" because through humility Jesus know perfectly well that the FATHER IS GREATER THAN HIM. 1 Cor. 15:24 "15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. God the father is overall, he is all in all there is none unto like him, NONE! |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by paulGrundy(m): 6:12am On Sep 03, 2015 |
johnw74: |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Nobody: 7:05am On Sep 03, 2015 |
johnw74:That verse wasnt talking about jesus(being this son), the firstbegotten here means the first person to be created and was put unto the earth! and who is that? Adam! God ordered all the angels to bow down(worship to you) for Adam. now according to the quran, satan refused to bow down for Adam, because Adam was made from dust and he(satan) was made from the flame of fire viz satan was arrogant(the bible never talked on how satan disobeyed God), this was why satan was accursed(thats BTW). Lets remember that Adam was also called son of God in the bible(see luke3:38). if you look at heb1:9(NIV) God is refering to this "son" saying "therefore God, YOUR God, has set you above your companions..." if you believe this verse is talking about jesus your "GOD", will God refer to him(jesus) as being his(jesus) God? let me see your view about this. |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Emusan(m): 8:12am On Sep 03, 2015 |
Maamin: After quoting the whole of my post the only thing you can type is this. Who says the Father is not greater? an you help us answer this please? do you honour the Father through your worship or In what way do you honour the Father? Remember Jesus said [size=14pt]"...EVEN AS/JUST AS..."[/size] |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by dolphinheart(m): 10:13am On Sep 03, 2015 |
Emusan: You made this statement : "One mistake that people who raised questions like these are making is the INABILITY to distinguish between when The Word of God entered the creation and was given the name Jesus and His preexisting life from eternity." Do you have any bible verse(s) to support ur views expecially the "word of God entered the creation"? note key word we are looking for *"enter creation" * I asked : (1) does Jesus have a God? You said : When He took on flesh(became part of creations) the Father will automatically be His God as the Father is God for every creations. My remarks: Do you have any verse(s) that supports the statements: (a)"took on flesh" (b)became part of creation? * note the key words we need from the scriptures :"took on flesh" and " became part of creation. Words not used in the right format or probably deliberately twisted can give one a different understanding . The different translations I read on john 1:14 says " the word became flesh " and " word was made flesh "!. * note key word : "became"! Now you say jesus had a God when he took on flesh , to me this implies that he did not have a God before coming to earth(correct me if I'm wrong). Now did he still have that God or did not have that God when he went back to heaven after his ressurrection ? I asked : (2) was Jesus sent ? You said : Yes to earth by His Father. My remarks: I agree with you, jesus was sent by the one true God. I asked : (3) who sent Jesus ? You said: His Father! I asked : (4) who do you think is superior , Jesus or the one who sent him . You said: The Father is superior IN AUTHORITY/POSITION than Him. My remarks : Ur statement shows that jesus and the father are not equal in authority and position , the father is superior to jesus I asked : (5) is Jesus the father? You said : He is not the PERSON of the Father but He is an EVERLASTING FATHER Isaiah 9:6 which placed Him in Equality with the Father. In fact this is one of the verses that spelled out the Deity of Jesus. My remarks: You earlier stated that the father is superior to jesus , that they are different persons, now you state they are equal?. How can they be equal when one is superior to the other ? Isaiah 9:6 said :"he will be called....... evalasting father". This denotes that at a particular time he was not called "evalasting father" . I asked: (6) if you think Jesus is not the father, who do you think deserves our worship , Jesus , the father or both ? You said: The worship giving to Jesus is also for the Father no difference because "That ALL (including JWs) may HONOR THE SON, EVEN AS they (including JWs) HONOR the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth the Father which hath sent him" John 5:23 Let me ask you this maybe you can answer it since JWs I've asked always dance around and swept over it, do you honour the Father through your worship or In what way do you honour the Father? Remember Jesus said "...EVEN AS/JUST AS..." *Note: Don't ridicule your post by now giving me the definition of the word 'Honour' from dictionary. Are you saying that when we worship jesus, we also worship the father? Or we worship both at the same time Thank God john 5:23 did not say " everyone will worship the son just as they worship the father". I will show you my understanding of the verse by quoting it and also adding more info in bracket. John 5: 19-23: 19 So Jesus explained, “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing( your deity, jesus, said he only does what he sees the father doing, he does not do anything of his own initiative, yet some say the father and son are equal, how can they be equal when the son does not take any action unless the father tells him to? ) . Whatever the Father does, the Son also does( can you see superiority here too, no verse in the bible ever says "whatever the son does, the father also does". 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything he is doing( the father teaches the son ). In fact, the Father will show him how to do even greater works than healing this man( the father will still teach the son how to do greater things in the future). Then you will truly be astonished. 21 For just as the Father gives life to those he raises from the dead, so the Son gives life to anyone he wants.( the father has giving the son the ability and taught him how to raise the dead) 22 In addition, the Father judges no one. Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority to judge, ( the father gave the son the authority, at a Particular time jesus never had the authority ) 23 ( since the father has giving this authority to the son , what happens next) so that( the word "so" links verse 23 to verse 22 ) everyone will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son is certainly not honoring the Father who sent him. If a king sends a messenger on an errand with his seal or sign of authority, that messenger is honored like you'll honor the king . Jesus said all will honor the son like they honor the father cus of the authority the father gave him. He definitely did not mean worship the son like they worship the father. The principal Hebrew term denoting “honor” is ka·vohdhʹ, which literally means “heaviness.” So a person who is honored is regarded as being weighty, or amounting to something. In Greek, the noun ti·meʹ conveys the sense of “honor,” “esteem,” “value,” “preciousness.” Thus the verb ti·maʹo can also mean “set a price on”the noun ti·meʹ can have the sense of “price,” “value” and the adjective tiʹmi·os can mean “esteemed,” “dear, or valuable,” and “precious.” Children honor/value there parents Servants honor/value there masters Jesus honors/values God God honors/values jesus Servants of God honors/values God God honors/values his loyal servants The bible says how the Most High will honor all who honor Him, recognizing them as His approved servants and blessing them beyond measure. 1Sa 2:30 : Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed. Since it was God who highly exalted his Son, all who refuse to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the immortal King of kings and Lord of lords dishonor the Father. Because of who he is and what he has accomplished, the Son deserves honor and loyal support. All who desire to be honored by the Son as his approved disciples must imitate his example and faithfully adhere to his teaching.— Romans 2:7, 10. I value the father cus he is my creator, I value the son cus of what he has done for me. I asked : (7 ) is Christ under subjection to anybody ? ( if you are in subjection to another, is that person not superior to you ? You said : Then do the Trinitarian ever claim that Jesus is superior than His Father? It's better you get a Trinity book and read for your own benefit and leave everything Watchtower had told you about Trinity because it never presents Trinity the way Trinitarian teaches. My remarks : Sir , you have not answered question 7 . 1 Like |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by johnw74: 10:24am On Sep 03, 2015 |
Maamin: Yet you don't believe them, you jw aren't u Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: ...we are also in the form of God i.e (image of God), does that makes us equal with God also? NO! Scripture doesn't say we are equal with God, but scripture does say that Jesus Christ thought it not robbery to be equal with God, and equal is the correct word there Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one. yet the scripture can not be broken, is high time we quit making the scripture interpret our own desire. Yes it's high time jw do that |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by johnw74: 10:59am On Sep 03, 2015 |
lexiconkabir: @ red, Hebrews 1:6 is talking of Jesus Christ, that is clear. Adam was not begotten of God, God made him from the dust of the ground. Jesus Christ being begotten means He is from God, part of God. He is the only begotten of God. the Father and the Son is God Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 1 Like |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Jozzy4: 11:02am On Sep 03, 2015 |
johnw74: He is not a JW , your thinking faculty has been conditioned to view everyone that disagree with you as Jw , you need h.elp .
That mean we are also equal with God , Philipian 2:5 said we sud keep that same mind thats in Christ Jesus
The jews are wrong . Use your thinking faculty , " the Father Is GREATER than I" Joh 14:28
Thank God, he didnt say I and my Father are ONE GOD. 1 Like |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by johnw74: 11:44am On Sep 03, 2015 |
Jozzy4: I was going to say "now don't be bad spirited", and then I remembered lex struck out one scripture for another so it was understandable of me to mistake him for jw as to the below, you don't believe the two scriptures posted, that's why I also mistook you for jw you are more jw than Christian, that's for sure, That mean we are also equal with God , Philipian 2:5 said we sud keep that same mind thats in Christ Jesus Thank God, he didnt say I and my Father are ONE GOD. Duh, that's what the verse means Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one. Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word Jesus is God, Father is God, I and my Father are one 1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory 1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost is one, one what? one Spirit, one God jw cannot possibly understand it, oh that's right you are not jw, It's understandable that I keep forgetting that. |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Appleyard(m): 11:52am On Sep 03, 2015 |
dolphinheart: Question: did Peter accepted the worship? No! Vs 26 But Peter took him up, saying, stand up; i myself am also am a man. Cornelius wanted to show respect to Peter, but Peter didnt accept that kind of worship, knowing that only God can be woorship. So Peter was never worshipped in the actual sense. 1 Like |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Emusan(m): 12:36pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
Next time make your post well arrange by using quotation tag (instead of typing You said or I said or my remark) if not I won't reply you. dolphinheart: Attacking strawman, @bold how can view/understanding of verse be found in the scripture? When you yourself did the same below. Now you say jesus had a God when he took on flesh , to me this implies that he did not have a God [size=14pt]before coming to earth(correct me if I'm wrong).[/size] Now did he still have that God or did not have that God when he went [size=14pt]back to heaven[/size] after his ressurrection ? The two @bold show you never grasp the point; but let me help you. Jesus came to earth NOT WITH HIS FLESH but He went to heaven with His Flesh. My remarks: So He was not sent by His Father, right? You said: But no comment, since the Father is different from the one who sent Him according to you by changing The Father to the ONE TRUE GOD in above. My remarks : You read me well. My remarks: President Muhammad Buhari is superior than Me (It means PMB is superior than me in Authority and Position) President Muhammad Buhari is equal to Me (It means as a Nigeria Citizen we are equal) Let your reasoning faculty do the rest Isaiah 9:6 said :"he will be called....... evalasting father". This denotes that at a particular time he was not called "evalasting father". Now that He's CALLED Everlasting Father, how many EVERLASTING FATHER DO YOU HAVE? Are you saying that when we worship jesus, we also worship the father? Or we worship both at the same time I believe you read and understood my post. Thank God john 5:23 did not say " everyone will worship the son just as they worship the father". The question is, do you honour God THROUGH YOUR WORSHIP? I will show you my understanding of the verse by quoting it and also adding more info in bracket. Can you provide scripture for your understanding here as you said of me earlier? ( your deity, jesus, said he only does what he sees the father doing, he does not do anything of his own initiative, yet some say the father and son are equal, how can they be equal when the son does not take any action unless the father tells him to?). Do you know the meaning of SUPERIORITY? Whatever the Father does, the Son also does( can you see superiority here too, no verse in the bible ever says "whatever the son does, the father also does". In fact your scriptural perversion is alarming. NOTE here, Whatever the Father does, THE SON ALSO DOES! What does that mean to you? Beside, Did I say there's no SUPERIORITY? 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything he is doing( the father teaches the son ). In fact, the Father will show him how to do even greater works than healing this man( the father will still teach the son how to do greater things in the future). Then you will truly be astonished. 21 For just as the Father gives life to those he raises from the dead, so the Son gives life to anyone The @bold is the key here, which means Jesus can also carry out HIS OWN WILL without conflicting Father's will. Which brought the whole previous verses into ONE. As even though Jesus can INITIATE His OWN WILL He still Allow the Father to lead. I know you didn't see this. Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority to judge, (the father gave the son the authority, at a Particular time jesus never had the authority ) 23 ( since the father has giving this authority to the son , what happens next) so that( the word "so" links verse 23 to verse 22 ) everyone will honor the Son, [size=14pt]just as[/size] they honor the Father. We will see how perverted you are with this your understanding. Now that He has the Authority. Has Jehovah take back the Authority? If NO! How many people do you have HAVING ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY? If YES! Kindly explain. Anyone who does not honor the Son is certainly not honoring the Father who sent him. Imaging after in your own illustration when the messenger will be honored LIKE YOU'LL honor the King later change to not mean worshiping the Son like they worship the Father which we can then ask, how will people would've honored the King if the King that was actually seen by the people in place of that messenger? I believe you don't understand your own illustration and this is where JWs always miss it. The meaning of your illustration is very simple, the SEAL and the AUTHORITY can be interpreted If I (the King) be the one who APPEARS in your PRESENCE or come to you, how will you have treated me? In other word it means if it is Jehovah who actually came to earth with is OWN SEAL and Authority WILL YOU WORSHIP HIM or NOT? Children honor/value there parents Illustration upon illustration without knowing how it refutes your own claim. Is it the same way the loyal servants honor God that God will honor them back? But Jesus said "...EVEN AS/JUST AS..." which means IN ANYWAY YOU HONOR THE FATHER HONOR ME IN LIKE MANNER. As for me and the rest of TRUE BELIEVERS all over the world, we honor the Father through our worship, praise, prayers. I don't know about JWs but I know because you knew the gravity of this verse over your believe you decided to limit your HONOR to Jehovah ONLY for being the CREATOR. Since it was God who highly exalted his Son, all who refuse to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the immortal King of kings and Lord of lords dishonor the Father. Because of who he is and what he has accomplished, the Son deserves honor and loyal support. Was it because The Father is also immortal King of kings and the Lord of lord that made them dishonor Him? Since the statement was "...EVEN AS/JUST AS they honor the Father." I value the father cus he is my creator, I value the son cus of what he has done for me. You've given that beautiful verse two different meaning now because of your twisted tongue @bold, do you mean what Jesus did for you it's not Jehovah who did it? Then you must value The Son as the creator too because "...EVEN AS/JUST AS you value (if we replace honor with value just for your own taste) the Father" that's what the verse says. My remarks : You question is YES, is that ok? But my question has been danced around and swept over as usual. |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Nobody: 12:41pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
johnw74:you are yet to show me how that verse refers to jesus, some translation uses firstborn, please who was the firstborn on earth and pls address heb1:9. where that son was told "therefore God, your God has placed you above your companions ...." |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Emusan(m): 12:59pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
lexiconkabir: And if you now add verse 10 that applied creation to the Son. Was it Adam that created everything? I know you're a Muslim trying to bring Islam understanding into Christian. |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Nobody: 1:17pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
Emusan:read from 8 and you will see that it was that son talking to God. and God is truely the creator of all things. |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Jozzy4: 1:57pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
Nope ! That will contradict 1 cor 8:6 for us there is one God , THE FATHER . ONLY THE FATHER .
But we are also one in the same sense ! John 17:22 , Does it mean we are Almighty God and a part of trinity too? Check the numbers ! Just admit you serve TWO Gods . Thats why God prayed to the other God the Father . And when God 1 died , the other God didnt die .
We are also one In The same sense (john 17:22)
Since It was God that was manifested in the FLESH , do you now admit Mary is the mother of God ?
Spurious Text . |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Emusan(m): 2:51pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
lexiconkabir: Stop bringing Islamic theology into what doesn't concern you. Verse 8 reads: "But to the Son He (The Father) says..." Bible isn't like Qur'an where the speaker switched from First Pronoun to second pronoun or from third to another. |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Nobody: 2:57pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
Emusan:bro before i say anything, complete that verse 8 |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by Nobody: 3:51pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
@Emusan, since you refused to complete the verse in order not to nail yourself, i will complete it myself to prove my point. heb1:8(NIV) "But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom." now do you still think God was talking to jesus? is God calling jesus "O God"? pls tell me if i'm just bringing islamic teachings here! |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by dolphinheart(m): 7:08pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
Emusan: Ok ill try and see if I'm able to get the quote method. Attacking strawman, @bold how can view/understanding of verse be found in the scripture? When you yourself did the same below.So those words where ur own and where never used in the bible. Pls show me where I used words that I can't defend using the scriptures . I quoted a scripture that says " the word became flesh ". This you sidestepped in ur reply. The noble did not say "the word took on flesh " but "became flesh" . What do you understand by " word became flesh"? The two @bold show you never grasp the point; but let me help you. So what did jesus come to earth with? In what way does ur statement support the "took on flesh" statement you made earlier? Can you provide prove that jesus went back to heaven with his flesh ? I read 1 peter 3:18 and that place said " made alive in spirit" in reference to jesus ressurection. Jesus died in the flesh, he was made alive in the spirit . This form of ressurection is what humans who hoped to enter into Gods kingdom believe in for paul said "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God " . Remember jesus is the first fruit of those who are to be ressurrected , if jesus where ressurected with his fleshly body , he would not have been the first for there were previous fleshly ressurections before jesus ressurection . Jesus is the first fruit ressurected in the spirit and annointed christians hope to follow this form of ressurection "Just as there are fleshly bodies, there are also spiritual bodies". Read 1 cor 15 : 44. So He was not sent by His Father, right? I deliberately did that, I changed the father to the only true God . Does the bible support my view ? Yes, for jesus called the father the " only true God" In john 17:1-3. 1 cor 8:5,6 also helps us to know which God we should worship, I encourage you to read it. You read me well. Now let My reasoning faculty analyze what you just said The father(only true God) has superior position and authority over jesus. The father is equal to jesus just as I'm equal to the president cus we are both nigerian citezens. From the above, we can agree that jesus is a "God" , but he is not the "almighty God" cus the father is superior to him. Apart from position and authority , is there any other way the father is superior to jesus? Knowledge- the father is superior to jesus cus jesus said he learnt from the father and there are still greater things for him to learn(to be shown ). Jesus also told his disciples that there are certain things he did not know , but only the father( the only true God knows). Power- jesus received the power he used to perform his wonderful works from God. Read acts 10: 38. Now that He's CALLED Everlasting Father, how many EVERLASTING FATHER DO YOU HAVE? Jesus said there is only one father who is in heaven . I believe you read and understood my post. Read john 5 : 19 to 23 again . You will know why the son does what the father does. Everything the son does, he learnt from the father. The @bold is the key here, which means Jesus can also carry out HIS OWN WILL without conflicting Father's will. Which brought the whole previous verses into ONE. As even though Jesus can INITIATE His OWN WILL He still Allow the Father to lead. Yes you are right, but his loyalty and love for the father made jesus not to do his own will, I never said jesus does not have his own will. Jesus has subjected his will to the will of the father. Now john 17:2 helps us to understand that this particular ability of jesus was giving or granted to him by the father. We will see how perverted you are with this your understanding. Yes , if jehovah(the almighty) came to earth himself , ill worship him as the almighty God. I will also honor him as ill do the almighty god . But if he sends a messenger , a representative, ill honor that one as a representative of the almighty God. The previous verse 22 let's us udderstand why he said all will honor him as they honor the father. Illustration upon illustration without knowing how it refutes your own claim.The honor you give a person is determined by the value or weight that person holds in you . The father loved us , he sent his son, I honor him for that . The son did not do his own thing, he did what the father sent him to do , I honor him for that . I also honor The son cause he has been giving authority to perform acts that might lead me to evalasting life and can't gain such life if I dnt follow him . your question is YES, is that ok? The father was superior to Jesus while he was on earth , the father is also superior to jesus when he went back to heaven . 2 Likes |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by johnw74: 12:40am On Sep 04, 2015 |
lexiconkabir: There is no point discussing with someone who thinks Hebrews 1:6 is talking about Adam. I'm not interisted in discussing the Bible in comparison with the koran either. |
Re: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Worship Jesus Christ? by johnw74: 12:44am On Sep 04, 2015 |
Jozzy4: You don't understand anything at all, you reject all the scriptures I post, and what you say yourself is confused. 2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Blinded and lost by their own choice of rejecting the truth. 1 Like |
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