mukina2:

why dnt you just shut up

did i hit a nerve there?
You are in darkness and you know it, come out before it is too late!

From all indications, we can't shut up when women are being treated that way by men who wanted to obey the prophet's *allah*!

Even Muhammad was said to have been repulsed at the very idea of what his *allah* recommended in the Qur'an that he advised his adherents to never beat any woman!

So, if all the incantations are the display of fear, uncertainty or shock at what you did not know previously, rest your heart: it's our privilege to unveil this barbarity of what has been covered for over 14 centuries.

Babyosisi was apt in saying that "knowledge is power!" What you refuse to know when it is presented to you might. . . harm . . YOU!! Know it now and don't be a victim!

Sallam.

mukina2:

La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!

La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!

La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!

La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!

La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!

La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!


La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!
La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!

La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!

La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!

La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!

I have a feeling Mukina2 uses these chantings as an attempt to silence the gentle sweet voice tugging at her spirit.

mukina2:

no one will ever hit me . . . .get that into your brain . .we are not all gullible ok?

thunder fire your keyboard for sayin tat to me

mukina2,sending thunder kwa?
where is the gentle lady we've all come to love?

babyosisi:

mukina2,sending thunder kwa?
where is the gentle lady we've all come to love?

She's still there - and we can continue to love her instead of recommend babs787 *****!

shaitan

@babyosisi she's here

@david . .since youre in the light stay there and leave me alone . .stop taunting me o . .ok . .

mukina2:

@david . .since youre in the light stay there and leave me alone . .stop taunting me o . .ok . .

this is not a taunt, but who am i to argue if indeed the Holy Spirit is pulling the strings of your heart, you have had ample opportunity to read and understand the difference between light and darkness, you have seen the difference between divine love and slavery. You now know there is a difference between a faith that is all about works and one that is purely based on the grace of a saviour who came to die for you and me.
We have joked, we have laughed, fought and made up. All that will pass away with the fadiing of time but the most important question is where your soul will be at the end of time.

Do not be angry at words that purport to "riduclule the prophet", it is because we know he is no prophet but a false teacher sent to sow tares among the wheat while men slept.
One day the wheat will be gathered into the father's barn and the tares bound for burning!
Do not ask to be left alone in the dark for such words aimlessly uttered will stand against you in the day of judgement

It is not too late to come, Father is waiting eagerly too welcome you into the family of believers!

Shalom!

look nothing is tugging at my heart
i am a muslim and thats what i'll remain
being a muslim doesnt mean i am violent or i'll end up being married to someone violent
my whole lineage has never had cases of violent . .

mukina2:

no one will ever hit me . . . .get that into your brain . .we are not all gullible ok?
La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!
its not all muslim men tat beat up their wives . .
its not only muslims that beat up their wives
some men are just violent
thunder fire your keyboard for sayin tat to me

La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!

@mukina2 (_{anybody that cares to read})

Sallam alykum,
Insha Allah no one will ever hit you. But that will only be guaranteed if you marry a muslim (just in case you're not married). Even if you did something wrong, you husband will be guided by the Qur'an as to how to deal with the situation. If in the most unlikely event that it get to the popular beating part, he will not touch your face, abdomen, head or any sensitive part of your body _{(that leaves just your palm/arm and legs)}. Guess what, he will only beat you with a miswak meaning tooth-cleaning stick or at best a toothbrush cos the prophet was once angery and said: 'If it were not for the fear of retaliation on the Day of Resurrection, I would have beaten you with this miswak (tooth-cleaning stick)' [as reported by Ibn Majah and by Ibn Hibban, in his Sahih] _{(but pls don't take advantage of it)}

Another point to know is that generally speaking, Islam has five categories of Do’s and Don’ts:

‘Fard’ i.e. compulsory or obligatory; ‘Mustahab’ i.e. recommended or encouraged; ‘Mubah’ i.e. permissible or allowed; ‘Makruh’ i.e. not recommended or discouraged; ‘Haraam’ i.e. prohibited or forbidden

This verse of the ‘Mubah’ i.e. permissible or allowed type. He is not compled or obliged to go all the way. Boils down to human nature. The pictures shown above are clearly not in correlation with the practises of the prophet nor does the woman in question looks anything like a muslim.

One more thing, why would anyone beat with a toothbrush? Seems like the picture on peoples' head is that of a brutal husband excersing his authority on the slightest mistake the woman makes. The purpose is to give the woman an emotional punishment rather than physical punishment. That's why the sequence is admonish, abstain then beat. The abstain part should explain my point. The admonish part is not a one/two day thing. Its supposed to be for some time and the abstain part should only be tried if admonishing (which can take several forms) fails.

For more explanation look for the book "The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam" by Al-Qaradawi, Yusuf

Ma Sallam

@dav
I asked for your point. You refused to respond. I don't want to think your are pointless. But to answere your question, the society in which the couple leaves determines what ill-conducts are.

@babyosisi
Pls don't be deceived, its very easy for men to say they'll never touch their wife. But in reality they turn the poor women into punching bags. Check this out:

The courts in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, United Kingdom, and United States have accepted the extensive and growing body of research showing that battered partners can use force to defend themselves and sometimes kill their abusers because of the abusive and sometimes life-threatening situation in which they find themselves, acting in the firm belief that there is no other way than to kill for self-preservation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battered_woman_defence

May I ask, which of those countries mensioned above is an Islamic state? Yet women face life-threatening situation everyday _{even in the US that you've so much glorified.} I'm positive that you're wise enough to know who is pretending.

Peace.

gists:

The courts in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, United Kingdom, and United States have accepted the extensive and growing body of research showing that battered partners can use force to defend themselves and sometimes kill their abusers because of the abusive and sometimes life-threatening situation in which they find themselves, acting in the firm belief that there is no other way than to kill for self-preservation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battered_woman_defence

May I ask, which of those countries mensioned above is an Islamic state? Yet women face life-threatening situation everyday _{even in the US that you've so much glorified.}

And may I ask which of the countries you mentioned are declared as a Christian state in the same way you're asking the question about Islamic state?

Our concern has been what the Qur'an recommends in the treatment of women vs what the Bible recommends. The references in your weblink did not include either of the two books at the end of the article. So, what's the cheap interjection you're trying to insinuate??

and to you gist,how many of those countries say it's Ok for him to beat her even with a chewing gum?

people beat people out of anger,no man,I repeat no man Muslim or not on the verge of anger would pause and run into the bathroom to pick up his chewing stick.
His fists and belt are the initial weapons and leaving no marks and the part the blow lands is never a consideration to a maniac in a feat of rage.

Thanks Mukina for speaking out your mind and all women,Muslims and Christians agree with you.
gists,I sure hope you do not come from an abusive family anfd watched your mom battered helplessly before you and you preach the same abuse in a glorified version.o a

And to all women,if your husband or fiancees ever lay their hands on you,call the police if you live in the west,run for your lives.
It usually starts with a shove,a push then you end up in a cemetery.

Just last week,a woman was stabbed to death in Maryland by her own husband,we have heard many a cases like that and for anyone to condone abuse in anyway makes me really mad.
I do hope gists and others like him end up with a woman much like myself who would castrate him before he lays his dirty paws on me.
You really sicken me.

to gists what do you mean by the picture does not look like a muslim,how do muslims look.
That is an insult to muslim women,how are they expected to look?face down in a ninja outfit?
What gives you the right to speak for women and determine how they should look?
who do you think you are?

Frankly I am sick of chauvinistic pigs like you.
Hiding under the cloak of Islam will not help you.
and having the guts to explain to a lady that some beating is OK for her if she marries a muslim man makes you less than a man.

Women,including Muslim women continually fight male abuse and you will not drag us centuries behind.
Get it into your thick skull,abuse is wrong.

gists:

@mukina2 (_{anybody that cares to read})

Sallam alykum,
Insha Allah no one will ever hit you. But that will only be guaranteed if you marry a muslim (just in case you're not married).

Where you thinking when you typed this piece of white lies? That no one will hit her IF she marries a muslim when the quran already prescribes how to hit a woman?

gists:

Even if you did something wrong, you husband will be guided by the Qur'an as to how to deal with the situation. If in the most unlikely event that it get to the popular beating part, he will not touch your face, abdomen, head or any sensitive part of your body _{(that leaves just your palm/arm and legs)}. Guess what, he will only beat you with a miswak meaning tooth-cleaning stick or at best a toothbrush because the prophet was once angery and said: 'If it were not for the fear of retaliation on the Day of Resurrection, I would have beaten you with this miswak (tooth-cleaning stick)' [as reported by Ibn Majah and by Ibn Hibban, in his Sahih] _{(but please don't take advantage of it)}

You make me laugh my dear! So this is meant to encourage a woman eh!! That even when she's "beaten" in her marriage like a dog it will be with nothing more than a toothpick? Do you know what beatings do to a woman's pride and emotional stability? Oh she should be happy because she can only be beaten on her palm, arm and legs?
I can just imagine you telling to stretch her hands for her strokes of the cane anytime she delays your dinner by more than 10mins, what a happy wife you have there!!!
Beating someone with a tooth brush? this your prophet sef must have had some mental issues!


Just one more point before i throw up over your entry, what of the men in afghanistan and other muslim nations? do you sincerely think that in a fit of anger you will remember to go and pick your toothbrush to beat the poor woman? Stop decieving yourself dear!

An interesting link where women and children are the culprits of Islamic teachings.
Do you know that in Syria and Jordan and other Muslim countries,a woman can be beaten or killed killed by male relatives when suspected of adultery or fornication and the sharia law says they are free from prosecution,that is gross injunstice.

If truly this is Islam then the women should flee as fast as they can when given the chance and being in the west gives them that protection.
http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/womenchildabuse/index.htm

and the respected ayatollah khomeini had this to say.

http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?ContentID=2137352748&TOCID=2083225413

a great expose in a poetic style of what it really is to be a muslim woman

http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?ContentID=2137352725&TOCID=2083225414

more from the "glorious Koran" by parvin Darabi,a respected Muslim woman.

Koran 2:222. "And they ask you about menstruation. Say: It is a discomfort; therefore keep aloof from the women during the menstrual discharge and do not go near them until they have become clean; then when they have cleansed themselves, go in to them as Allah has commanded you; surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves."



This entire Ayeh does not make sense and states that women are dirty for a natural occurrence. Menstruation is part of the female anatomy. This is an important function for women to bear children. How can such a natural event be dirty? Muslims like other religions believe that God created men and women. Therefore, why should God tell his prophet Mohammed that men should avoid women during their menstruation period? Why would anyone consider their own creation bad and dirty? Even humans do not do that. God told Mohammed that his own creation, women are filthy and most be avoided seven to ten days a month during a good portion of their life. Frankly, I don’t understand what does women’s menstruation have to do with the last sentence “surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves.” Does this mean that God loves women who clean themselves or men that go into women after they are cleaned? It is not clear.


Koran 2:223. "Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves; and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers."



What is the “good news” Allah has to give the believers? Could it be the clause that “your wives are a tilth for you.” so men can abuse women as they want?



Koran 2:226. "Those who swear that they will not go in to their wives should wait four months; so if they go back, then Allah is surely Forgiving, Merciful."



Does this mean that if a man got mad at his wife he should not sleep with her for four months and if he does sleep with her in those months then Allah will forgive him? For what? Why is it the business of Allah if a man and a woman sleep with each other or not?


Koran 2:227. And if they have resolved on a divorce, then Allah is surely Hearing, Knowing.



This one says if husbands and wives divorce each other Allah will know. So what, everyone else will know about it too.


Koran 4:34. Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.



This Ayeh means that God made men in charge of women because men spend their money on women. Does this mean that if a woman spends her money on her man then she is in charge of him? Why would anyone tell a man or a woman to beat the other person? I have heard all kinds of explanations for the Arabic word “zaraba” or to beat. In my Persian translation of Koran, the translator felt so bad about the Arabic word “zaraba” that he added the clause “not too hard” in parenthesis. Many Muslims have tried to expand on this issue and add such things as beat her with a stick not larger than ones thumb or feathers or beat in a way that it does not injure. However, these are all appendages added to the saying in Koran. Again at the end of this Ayeh it says Allah is “High and Great”. How many times should God tell us that he is high and almighty?


We have a saying in Persian “You said it once I believed you. You said it again I doubted you, you mentioned it for the third time I knew that you were telling a lie.”



Ayeh 19:65 says, “The Lord of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, so serve Him and be patient in his service. Do you know anyone equal to Him?" Yes. I know some one, the Devil.



In Sura Light, 24:2 it says “(As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.”



Is this Allah a Merciful one? Not in my book. Why should people be flogged for having a little sex? The advise gets better as we go forward in this Sura. In 24:6 it states that “And (as for) those who accuse their wives and have no witnesses except themselves, the evidence of one of these (should be taken) for times, bearing Allah to witness that he is most surely of the truthful ones.”


So if a man does not have four witnesses to prove his wife has committed adultery he can just accuse her four times and that is fine and accepted. Such a just law?


Ayeh 24:31 “And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head covering over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their women, or whom their right hand possess (slaves), or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! So that you may be successful."



Parvin Darabi

gists:

@mukina2 Sallam alykum,

Insha Allah no one will ever hit you. But that will only be guaranteed if you marry a muslim (just in case you're not married). Even if you did something wrong, you husband will be guided by the Qur'an as to how to deal with the situation. If in the most unlikely event that it get to the popular beating part, he will not touch your face, abdomen, head or any sensitive part of your body (that leaves just your palm/arm and legs). Guess what, he will only beat you with a miswak meaning tooth-cleaning stick or at best a toothbrush because the prophet was once angery and said: 'If it were not for the fear of retaliation on the Day of Resurrection, I would have beaten you with this miswak (tooth-cleaning stick)' [as reported by Ibn Majah and by Ibn Hibban, in his Sahih]

@All,
Every decent person alive should lose any shred of respect for GIST from thisday onwards. I have discussed with you previously and I had a good impression of you from your discussion, but this!!!! Oh my God. Indeed, not only babyosisi do you make sick, you make every decent and right-thinking person, male or female, sick to the deepest part of the gut.

@ gist
I shake my head for you.
Thou art a disgrace to manhood! You mean you reason like this?

Now i keep understanding it the more, that Islam is meant for lowlife based idiots, who cannot afford the opportunity to articulately reason and verify points, but rather will prefer some wimps like their prophet to keep decieving them the more.

@ Babyosisi and all,
I went through the link provided by mamaosisi and found this hilariously stupid Islamic teachings by Ayatolah Khomeini on marriage, divorce and relationships; check this out:

"If a man is called upon, for medical reasons, to look upon a woman other than his wife and to touch her body, he is permitted to do so, but if he can give such care by only looking at the body he must not touch it, and if he can give it by only touching, he must not look at it."

Babyosisi, isn't this interesting from a medical practitioner's point of view!!!E.g. in a situation where a woman needs surgey and the only available surgeon(s) is a man, such a male surgeon will have to be blinfolded to operate on the woman, abi, just jiving, but isn't this ludicrous

"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not comitted a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."

Obviously, this is from the act of prophet muhammed, the peadophile-in-chief-of-islam. This is sicker-than-your-average!

"A woman may legally belong to a man in one of two ways; by continuing marriage or temporary marriage. In the former, the duration of the marriage need not be specified; in the latter, it must be stipulated, for example, that it is for a period of an hour, a day, a month, a year, or more."

So therefore, "short-time" is permitted islamically, afterall it is just a "short-time" or temporary marriage for a purpose!

"A father or a paternal grandfather has the right to marry off a child who is insane or has not reached puberty by acting as its representative. The child may not annul such a marriage after reaching puberty or regaining his sanity, unless the marriage is to his manifest disadvantage."

Nne, What a good way to abuse the mentally-challenged, just dispose 'it' off by marriage; but who go marry am? Babyosisi, you no go kill person for this nairaland! where did you get this link.

"A marriage is annulled if a man finds that his wife is afflicted with one of the seven following disabilities: madness, leprosy, eczema, blindness, paralysis with aftereffects, malformation of the urinary and genital tracts or of the genital-tract and rectum through conjoining thereof, or vaginal malformation making Coitus impossible." "If a wife has her marriage annulled because her husband is unable to have sexual relations with her either vaginally or anally , he must pay her as damages one-half of her mehryeh (her price) specified in the marriage contract. If the husband or wife annuls the marriage for any of the above-mentioned reasons, the man owes nothing to the woman if they have had sexual relations together; if they have not, he must pay her the full amount of the dowry."

In other words, a fifty something yr old man can marry a 10/11 yr old girl, have sex with her and impregnates and if she develops VVF as a result of obstructed labour due to her age, simply annul the marriage, and look for the next 9 yr old. No wonder the war against VVF is the north is failing.

"A woman temporarily married, say, for a month or a year, has her marriage automatically annulled at the end of that time, or at any other time when the husband releases her from the balance of her engagement. It is not necessary for this that there be any witnesses, or that the woman have had her period."

Amazing, indeed amazing!

"A woman who wishes to pursue her studies toward the end of being able to earn her living through respectable work, and who has a male teacher, may do so if she keeps her face covered and has no contact with men; but if-that is inevitable, and religious and moral tenets are thus undermined, she must give up her studies. Girls and boys who attend coeducational classes in grammar schools, high schools, universities, or other teaching establishments, and who, in order to legalize such a situation, wish to contract a temporary marriage may do so without the permission of their fathers."

No, let me get this straight; a boy and girl in a mixed school should get "temporarily married" for them to be able to attend class in a mixed school, and that a girl should give-up her studies if she has a male teacher and the logistics of the course wil not allow a nikab. Is this insanity or what?

what a "glorious" religion!

Reading more of this "stupidity" that you guys dicover the more from Islam makes me sick the more!

Imagine a "beautiful religion" that treats women in disgusting manner.

Cant imagine my sister in such a scenario

@Gist
Salaam

do you know how many times my aunts or even my mum of blessed memory did offend my dad but never did he raise his hands on her . .i have never seen my uncles raise there hands on any of my aunts

all of them are well learned men . .but they dnt hit . .even me as a girl my dad has never beaten me up . neither my brother . .

some men are just plain violent . .Muslim or Christians . .

mukina2:

@Gist
Salaam

do you know how many times my aunts or even my mum of blessed memory did offend my dad but never did he raise his hands on her . .i have never seen my uncles raise there hands on any of my aunts

all of them are well learned men . .but they dnt hit . .even me as a girl my dad has never beaten me up . neither my brother . .

some men are just plain violent . .Muslim or Christians . .

Your dad and uncles are great examples of total manliness.
A real man controls his temper.
I'm happy you had very good examples set for you.
gists may yet learn something here.

havila,that is quite an eyeopener.
did you also notice that the woman in the first link that had been flogged had her bruises in the lower regions and arms as stipulated by gists and his fellow "light" abusers.

I have lost any atom of respect for gists and had none for babs787 to begin with.
shame on both of you for seeing women as objects.

and yes mukina2 there are Christian men that that abuse their wives but there are no teachings by Christ or anywhere in the new testament that condones it.
The levitical laws may have some teachings on that(I don't know) but the teachings of Christ came as a fulfillment of the old testament laws so do not apply to Christians.
The Bible says men should love their wives and deal kindly with them,we wives should honor,respect and submit to them not as slaves but for orderliness in the home.
A Christian man is what any woman should pray for,a man that submits to the Lordship of Jesus is better than all of the gold in Arabia.

I'm happy that we agree 100% on this issue,hopefully many other areas of agreement will follow.
My best friend today was born a Muslim just like you and today is a Christian married to a good Christian man in Wisconsin and raising a Christian family.
Her whole family today have embraced Christ even though her dad wanted to kill her in the beginning.
I will continue to pray for you and I know that one day,Christ will reveal Himself to you.

babyosisi:

shame on both of you for seeing women as objects and property.

o so they have upgraded the status of the woman? i thought women were mere sexual organs?

Havila:

"If a man is called upon, for medical reasons, to look upon a woman other than his wife and to touch her body, he is permitted to do so, but if he can give such care by only looking at the body he must not touch it, and if he can give it by only touching, he must not look at it."

The Ayatollah may be the last true Muslim who understood the message of Muhammad even better than the Caliphs! Or how else can this issue be resolved? Let's see:

1. Possible they leave the poor woman dying, since the 'Ayas' says not to look. Don't forget that the woman was supposed to be wearing her burqa as a true Muslim!

2. They begin to send all muslim men on emergency medical training to augment the lapses, since the 'Ayas' would rather not see women driving cars, getting educated. . . much less becoming surgeons.

Havila:

"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed.

He was just telling "the truth" - as revealed by Muhammad!

Havila:

A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not comitted a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged.

I said it - this 'Ayas' knew Muhammad very well, nevermind the divide of over 14 centuries.

Havila:

If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."

The reason is simple: by the time he goes through his rounds of 4 abused infants, he would have reached his 72 rounds of earthly virgins, then blow himself up to receive them anew for in janat. (Do the maths: 4 x 18 = 72! He needs 18 rounds of every 4 infants!)

Havila:

"A woman may legally belong to a man in one of two ways; by continuing marriage or temporary marriage. In the former, the duration of the marriage need not be specified; in the latter, it must be stipulated, for example, that it is for a period of an hour, a day, a month, a year, or more."

Adultery by revelation - from Muhammad!! This is not new - the Quraysh prophet encouraged it in his days among his marauding band.

Havila:

"A father or a paternal grandfather has the right to marry off a child who is insane or has not reached puberty by acting as its representative. The child may not annul such a marriage after reaching puberty or regaining his sanity, unless the marriage is to his manifest disadvantage."

From the cradle to the cage! Slavery obviously has many colours.

Havila:

"A marriage is annulled if a man finds that his wife is afflicted with one of the seven following disabilities: madness, leprosy, eczema, blindness, paralysis with aftereffects, malformation of the urinary and genital tracts or of the genital-tract and rectum through conjoining thereof, or vaginal malformation making Coitus impossible."

All these maladies are the direct effects that must be expected after the long bearded guys have messed up the lives of the infants they abused.

Havila:

"If a wife has her marriage annulled because her husband is unable to have sexual relations with her either vaginally or anally, he must pay her as damages one-half of her mehryeh (her price) specified in the marriage contract. If the husband or wife annuls the marriage for any of the above-mentioned reasons, the man owes nothing to the woman if they have had sexual relations together; if they have not, he must pay her the full amount of the dowry."

Havila:

"A woman temporarily married, say, for a month or a year, has her marriage automatically annulled at the end of that time, or at any other time when the husband releases her from the balance of her engagement. It is not necessary for this that there be any witnesses, or that the woman have had her period."

Where is babs787 - did I not hint that muslim men don't need evidence for their atrocities?? Hear it direct from the only exegete of Muhammad's illusions.

Havila:

"A woman who wishes to pursue her studies toward the end of being able to earn her living through respectable work, and who has a male teacher, may do so if she keeps her face covered and has no contact with men; but if-that is inevitable, and religious and moral tenets are thus undermined, she must give up her studies. Girls and boys who attend coeducational classes in grammar schools, high schools, universities, or other teaching establishments, and who, in order to legalize such a situation, wish to contract a temporary marriage may do so without the permission of their fathers."

If it doesn't please Muhammad or his idol, nothing works in Islam. Your face has to be covered [interpretation: *allah* doesn't know you, and does not wish to see your face; otherwise he is easily distracted]; you have to give up your education if moral obligations makes it obvious the girl will become smart and refused to be lashed with a pole!

Havila:

No, let me get this straight; a boy and girl in a mixed school should get "temporarily married" for them to be able to attend class in a mixed school, and that a girl should give-up her studies if she has a male teacher and the logistics of the course wil not allow a nikab. Is this insanity or what?

I told you before: it's called "the culture of the electric cable" (for the bulala), or "from cradle to the cage!"



[quote][/quote]

Sallam alykum
I have never hit my woman too. The worst I've done is to shout. And that's just being honest. I remembered the 1st time I did that (i.e shout), how she showed remourse and appologised for what she did wrong. I was happy and I thank God not because I won the case but because she showed remourse almost instantly and life continued happily ever since. Last night I too did something wrong and I also appologised, I have not even seen your response then. Pls, don't get me wrong, I was not trying to justify battery. I qouted the hadith to prove that if we muslims have to follow our leader, then we wouldn't hit our women as he (Mohammed) did not hit her even when he  was very angry. That should be obvious from the hadith.

mukina2:

some men are just plain violent . .Muslim or Christians . .

That is exactly my point when I said the verse is of the ‘Mubah’ i.e. permissible or allowed type and that it Boils down to the individual. However, you'll agree with me that the verse stands even if we don't seem to like it. Its survived the last 1400yrs and Insha Allah, it will survive the next, and the next,

@dav
Just one more point before i throw up over your entry, what of the men in afghanistan and other muslim nations? do you sincerely think that in a fit of anger you will remember to go and pick your toothbrush to beat the poor woman? Stop decieving yourself dear! [/color]

And you too think like a man. Why should it be that the first thing that comes to your mind is to beat her up when she offends you? The men in Afghanistan and others countries who do this are in clear violation of what the Qur'an says. Why did you mis out the part where[b] I said Seems like the picture on peoples' head is that of a brutal husband excersing his authority on the slightest mistake the woman makes,   The admonish part is not a one/two day thing. Its supposed to be for some time and the abstain part should only be tried if admonishing (which can take several forms) fails.[/b]

@babyosisi
[color=#990000]This entire Ayeh does not make sense and states that women are dirty for a natural occurrence. Menstruation is part of the female anatomy. This is an important function for women to bear children. How can such a natural event be dirty?  Muslims like other religions believe that God created men and women. Therefore, why should God tell his prophet Muhammad that men should avoid women during their menstruation period? Why would anyone consider their own creation bad and dirty? Even humans do not do that. God told Muhammad that his own creation, women are filthy and most be avoided seven to ten days a month during a good portion of their life. Frankly, I don’t understand what does women’s menstruation have to do with the last sentence “surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves.” Does this mean that God loves women who clean themselves or men that go into women after they are cleaned? It is not clear.


I refuse to call you names, but seems like you want your husbands to have sex with you while you're menstruating. You're comming dangerously close to the definiton of a PIG.

to gists what do you mean by the picture does not look like a muslim,how do muslims look. That is an insult to muslim women,how are they expected to look?face down in a ninja outfit? What gives you the right to speak for women and determine how they should look? who do you think you are?

My woman (just like many other well dressed muslim women) doesn't look facedown and not like a ninja, yet everybody calls her Alhaja even though she has never been to hajj. We know our women when we see them.

@Havila
I don't demand/need any form respect from anybody. If saying what the Qur'an say is my crime SO BE IT!!

gists:

Please, don't get me wrong, I was not trying to justify battery. I qouted the hadith to prove that if we muslims have to follow our leader, then we wouldn't hit our women as he (Muhammad) did not hit her even when he was very angry. That should be obvious from the hadith.

What really do we believe in Islam? Is the hadith a much stronger evidence ONLY when the verse in the quran does not make sense? When the quran does not add up, you say to follow the hadith! When the hadith makes no sense, someone pops up to call it a weak hadith!
If mohammed did not hit his wives, why then do we have him recieving such "revelation" from allah?

gists:

@dav
Just one more point before i throw up over your entry, what of the men in afghanistan and other muslim nations? do you sincerely think that in a fit of anger you will remember to go and pick your toothbrush to beat the poor woman? Stop decieving yourself dear! [color=#990000][/color]

And you too think like a man. Why should it be that the first thing that comes to your mind is to beat her up when she offends you? The men in Afghanistan and others countries who do this are in clear violation of what the Qur'an says. Why did you mis out the part where[b] I said Seems like the picture on peoples' head is that of a brutal husband excersing his authority on the slightest mistake the woman makes, The admonish part is not a one/two day thing. Its supposed to be for some time and the abstain part should only be tried if admonishing (which can take several forms) fails.[/b]

1. you have as usual chosen to completely misrepresent my statement! I do not hit MEN! Why should i then hit a woman or worst of all the woman i love enough to spend the rest of my life with?

2. How can the men in Afghanistan be in "clear violation" of the quran that admonishes then to beat their wives "lightly", dress her up as a prisoner and use and dump her as a mere sexual tool? Do you have a special copy of the quran that we dont know about?

@dav

davidylan:

What really do we believe in Islam? Is the hadith a much stronger evidence ONLY when the verse in the quran does not make sense? When the quran does not add up, you say to follow the hadith! When the hadith makes no sense, someone pops up to call it a weak hadith!
If mohammed did not hit his wives, why then do we have him recieving such "revelation" from allah?

In Islam, the Qur'an by default is the book to give priority. Everything you do must be in line with the Qur'an. The Hadith comes in when we try to see how the Prophet executed what's in the Qur'an. Like I said earlier, there are 5 categories of Dos and Don't in Islam. Compulsary ones like establishing 5 regular prayers. But its the hadith that tells us how many rakats (i.e bowing and raising up) each of those prayer times. Another compulsory type is Zakat, HAjj etc which we're obliged to perform and details can be found in the hadith. In this case, the verse is not the compulsry type so, like I said it comes down to the individual. That's why the hadith comes in to show us how the prophet practised it when he was here.

davidylan:

2. How can the men in Afghanistan be in "clear violation" of the quran that admonishes then to beat their wives "lightly", dress her up as a prisoner and use and dump her as a mere sexual tool? Do you have a special copy of the quran that we don't know about?

If you were made a jugde and the law says there are three actions to be taken in a situation, but action 2 cannot be taken unless all measures to ensure the success of action 1 fails and similaly, action 3 cannot be taken unless all measures to ensure the success of action 2 fails. Then someone just jumped straight to action 3 and completely disregards action 1 and 2. Would you say this person has not violated the law? Expecially when the boundry of that action 3 was clearly excessed. Read the verse again and tell me they were justified by the Qur'an based on your own sincere jugdment and understanding.

And which part of the Qur'an say you should use and dump your wife like a sex tool?

gists:

If you were made a jugde and the law says there are three actions to be taken in a situation, but action 2 cannot be taken unless all measures to ensure the success of action 1 fails and similaly, action 3 cannot be taken unless all measures to ensure the success of action 2 fails. Then someone just jumped straight to action 3 and completely disregards action 1 and 2. Would you say this person has not violated the law? Expecially when the boundry of that action 3 was clearly excessed. Read the verse again and tell me they were justified by the Qur'an based on your own sincere jugdment and understanding.

And which part of the Qur'an say you should use and dump your wife like a sex tool?

1. All that is pure window dressing of a fraud! In reality, how many muslim men in Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia even Nigeria are bothering to stop and think through admonishing a wife or leaving the marital bed before beating her "lightly" for ill-conduct?

2. Do you really want me to start giving you verses where women are explicitly described as no better than dogs or donkeys? Or is this another escape strategy of idol worshippers? Pretending not to see the obvious?

davidylan:

1. All that is pure window dressing of a fraud! In reality, how many muslim men in Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia even Nigeria are bothering to stop and think through admonishing a wife or leaving the marital bed before beating her "lightly" for ill-conduct?

2. Do you really want me to start giving you verses where women are explicitly described as no better than dogs or donkeys? Or is this another escape strategy of idol worshippers? Pretending not to see the obvious?

Please could you helpme out with the verse pertaining to the bold statement above.There is a muslim here who is getting to realise the truth more than before. Hope his heart will be touched by God.