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Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only - European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) (95) - Nairaland

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Poll: Do You Want Ade To Leave Arsenal FC?

Yes - Sell him immediately: 28% (17 votes)
Yes - Use the money to strengthen the team: 41% (25 votes)
No - Ade has been maltreated by the press: 10% (6 votes)
Not unless he is replaced, I will be sad to see him go: 18% (11 votes)
Unsure: 1% (1 vote)
This poll has ended

Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only (R.I.P Bawomolo). / Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only / Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only (Old) (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by Nobody: 10:39am On Jul 30, 2009
invisible!:

Is there any price for being a confused coach? Wenger will win it by miles!

Arsenal will not finish 4th this season, they will finish 9th but the world will not end, take hearts boys, such is life.

The guys on this thread are now talking slowly, where is that brashness in Arsenal fans, where is the optimism, the cockedness, the irritating pig-headedness of the '49 match unbeaten run days' ?

Blind optimism is stupidity. . .the pig-headed ones have all absconded and have left the talking to the gooners.

HNIC:

I don't even know what to say about the Paddy rumour.
all i know is that he would be better than Silvestre
and would slap the taste out of the mouth of any misfiring player! grin



grin grin grin grin
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by FBS: 10:47am On Jul 30, 2009
debosky:

This is clearly the case. What exactly it is? No one knows. There are a number of possibilities.

1. Arsenal is in very bad financial straits and cannot afford to keep a large wage bill nor turn down offers like those for Ade & Kolo. We need the cash to stay afloat and even if that means risking CL qualification, we must try with the minimum amount of resources

2. Wenger is silently bidding for 1/2 players who he is confident will more than compensate for the losses and fire us upwards. He also realises that the players he is sold are greatly flawed and the cash is far more valuable to us. . . instead of selling too late like TH14 and Vieira arguably were.

3. Wenger is so far lost in his statistics and stubborn insistence on his 'vision' that he thinks he can win/challenge even with what he has and believes he doesn't need any more players.

Of those three options, option 3 is the worst because we will be in for a painful season if we have an unrealistic or delusional man at the helm
Then pray it is not the 3rd option 'cos you don't want to be fighting relegation not to talk of CL spot.
Still I'm not convinced that he is selling players "only" for the money. The man must have some "brilliant" plans.
Well, except if item 1 is the case.
Would you agree that if you guys don't win anything this season then it's bye-bye AW?
2 cents that he will be on his way to RM? cheesy
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by debosky(m): 10:49am On Jul 30, 2009
Wenger is saying the same old stories and I am not impressed in the least.

This view by a blogger I disagree with on so many things surprisingly captures my feelings aptly:

The sale is understandable, as was the sale of Adebayor, but Wenger has to communicate with supporters now and allay their fears that this money will be spent. The supporters need to know whether the £42 million Arsenal have now earned[b] is being thrown at the banks or the team. [/b]The supporters want new signings, particularly after[b] having been told by Wenger after 4 trophy-less years that he expected the squad to stay together and promised several new additions.[/b]

It would be completely unacceptable for Wenger, and the Arsenal board, to dismiss the supporters for a second successive season by announcing one thing then doing another whilst keeping everyone outside the club completely in the dark. At risk of sounding repetitive, the club is really asking for trouble should Arsenal suffer a similar season to last.


Simply put, we cannot continue hearing the same old thing over and over again. We have been working hard in training and having confidence for years so that is nothing new. We have been improving as individuals but the team has been depreciating as a whole. Wenger CANNOT continue to say the same old things and expect people to simply accept - gooners have been patient, and if anything, we DESERVE the truth.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by PDF: 10:55am On Jul 30, 2009
We play Athletico Madrid, Valencia n the the big one begins, away to Everton on Sat d 1st, 8th and 15th Aug respectively. Judging by yesterday's game, we aint ready at all (judging just yet will be unwise, anyway). We gat about 18days or so. At the end of last night's game it seems that Emmanuel Eboue went over to the Arsenal fans, threw in his boots/shirt etc and waved goodbye. Is he going too?

I think AW wants to flush out the Africans to a minimal extent knowing how important our fixtures are btw Jan n Feb(Aston, Bolton, Everton, Man, Chelski, Liverpool, amongst others), but he needs to do that with adequate replacements. For all fans, I think this guy isn't a numskull and I think also that he'll buy. He seems to want to adopt the last minute method he used last summer and January (arshavin). He felt short in the former cos he was £2m short for Alonso n Liverpool refused to sell at that. i think also that he's rily covering up for the fiscal problems at arsenal which SAF seem to know abt.

Kip ur fingers crossed gunners!
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by invisible2(m): 11:18am On Jul 30, 2009
PDF:

We play Athletico Madrid, Valencia n the the big one begins, away to Everton on Sat d 1st, 8th and 15th Aug respectively. Judging by yesterday's game, we aint ready at all (judging just yet will be unwise, anyway). We gat about 18days or so. At the end of last night's game it seems that Emmanuel Eboue went over to the Arsenal fans, threw in his boots/shirt etc and waved goodbye. Is he going too?

I think AW wants to flush out the Africans to a minimal extent knowing how important our fixtures are
btw Jan n Feb(Aston, Bolton, Everton, Man, Chelski, Liverpool, amongst others), but he needs to do that with adequate replacements. For all fans, I think this guy isn't a numskull and I think also that he'll buy. He seems to want to adopt the last minute method he used last summer and January (arshavin). He felt short in the former cos he was £2m short for Alonso n Liverpool refused to sell at that. i think also that he's rily covering up for the fiscal problems at arsenal which SAF seem to know abt.

Kip ur fingers crossed gunners!

If you sell all your African players just because of the ANC, you will sell all your European players during the Euro, sell your Russian players during the winter! grin
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by HNIC(m): 11:24am On Jul 30, 2009
PDF:

 i think also that he's rily covering up for the fiscal problems at arsenal which SAF seem to know abt.
Kip ur fingers crossed gunners!
Those two silly old men are geting too close for my liking!
How else can SAF know about Arsenal's fiscal problems,if not through AW!!! grin
@PDF
just kidding grin
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by presido1: 11:24am On Jul 30, 2009
invisible!:

If you sell all your African players just because of the ANC, you will sell all your European players during the Euro, sell your Russian players during the winter! grin
Lol During Euro no european club footie and what is about Russia and winter. I hate to defend AW but you have forced me to do so.

I don't think what PDF said is the motive, if he can't buy Afro players cuz of ANC where do he think he can get buy one get one free kinda deal. Unless he want to splash money like others or this kinda Paddy deal which will like see the return of Freedy, Parlour, Ian, David and the rest. Its not getting funny anymore.
HNIC:

Those two silly old men(Man) are geting too close for my liking!
How else can SAF know about Arsenal's fiscal problems,if not through AW!!! grin
@PDF
just kidding grin
AW has been taking some tutorial lately from the genius and the deal is that AW will reveal whatz up from Arsenal inner caucus.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by HNIC(m): 11:29am On Jul 30, 2009
invisible!:

If you sell all your African players just because of the ANC, you will sell all your European players during the Euro, sell your Russian players during the winter! grin
There is absolutely no sense in the highlighted.
I have even tried to see the humour in it, but only an idiot would find drivel funny!
Do you watch footie at all?
Or you think we are discussing Rugby
Stupid analogy!
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by tkb417(m): 11:30am On Jul 30, 2009
If you sell all your African players just because of the ANC, you will sell all your European players during the Euro, sell your Russian players during the winter
den no dey play league for europe during the euro cup oga sir grin
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by presido1: 11:32am On Jul 30, 2009
HNIC:

There is absolutely no sense in the highlighted.
I have even tried to see the sense of humour in it, but only an idiot would find drivel funny!
Do you watch footie at all?
Or you think we are discussing Rugby
Stupid analogy!
Dude don't come too hard on him, hez your london neighbour and sometimes all of you think alike.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by HNIC(m): 11:36am On Jul 30, 2009
presido1:

Dude don't come too hard on him, hez your london neighbour and[b] sometimes all of you think alike.[/b]
Think alike
The Chavs think like the Spuds grin
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by proudly9ja(m): 11:43am On Jul 30, 2009
Im not sure we have 42 million to spend.

We spent 15 on arshavin and 10 on Verm in advance of receiving Ade's 25 in my opinion. So we are only left with Toure's 16M.

I think everything is down to the financial position at Arsenal. How Fergie knows about this and we the fans don't beats my imagination. I mentioned this some posts back and some of you said I was just throwing fits. Well Im glad your eyes are now open.

Meanwhile back to Viera. If he comes then at least we can have that old rivalry back and some more excitement and not all the lovey dovey between those two managers (they shld both get a room pls!).

Unlike a lot of you, I am not scared about our finishing top 4. I know we will finish in the top four. I just want to know from Wenger and the board if we the fans should be expecting to challenge for the title. That way, I can know what to say when my friends who support the other top4 clubs and the overnight ManCity lovers are talking.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by PDF: 12:10pm On Jul 30, 2009
proudly9ja:

Im not sure we have 42 million to spend.
We spent 15 on arshavin and 10 on Verm in advance of receiving Ade's 25 in my opinion. So we are only left with Toure's 16M.
I think everything is down to the financial position at Arsenal.

Now that is the point!

Until someone comes out to rily speak abt the fiscal situation at arsenal, we'll all continue to call AW names. AW does more of covering up for the board who are MORE interested in making profits and balancing the books (except prolly, the new Gazidis); and to their advantage, they av a manager in AW who' ll do just that. The players and fans want to win things, the priority of the board get champions league money and AW has to do just dat to keep his job. That's y wenger will neva b sacked for finishing fourth 3 times in 4 seasons. Bottom line, the board don't want what the fans and players want.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by invisible2(m): 12:43pm On Jul 30, 2009
HNIC:

There is absolutely no sense in the highlighted.
I have even tried to see the humour in it, but only an idiot would find drivel funny!
Do you watch footie at all?
Or you think we are discussing Rugby
Stupid analogy!

Bros easy na!

Na me say make Wenger dey sell players like oranges? It was not supposed to make you laugh so you can cry,
Rugby, Arsenal will even play hockey this season, which players do they have left to play soccer grin grin
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by proudly9ja(m): 12:53pm On Jul 30, 2009
Just for laffs!

Our new DM?

Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by proudly9ja(m): 12:56pm On Jul 30, 2009
guess who?

Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by invisible2(m): 12:59pm On Jul 30, 2009
tkb417:

den no dey play league for europe during the euro cup oga sir grin

I sabi, but Wenger will still like to sell, for any reasons at all, he may say he is selling them to avoid them getting injuries during the EURO.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by nateevs(m): 1:16pm On Jul 30, 2009
Is Arsenal not a listed company on the exchange?
Arsenal's financial problems don't have to come from AW. .
Isn't it in public domain.?
What Arsenal is going to do with the money they have is what may not be in public domain.

Bottom line is Arsenal's mortgage's in negative equity grin. . . They are currently paying more than their stadium is worth.
And Highbury is now worth far less than they thot it'll be.
Improper fiscal and risk analysis. . . across the board. . . field and boardroom!
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by debosky(m): 1:18pm On Jul 30, 2009
It’s not about having 42m to spend – AA23 cost £15m didn’t he? We just need signings that show real intent and purpose on the side of the club. Right now we appear to be a deluded club who have unrealistic hopes.
Saying everything is down to the financial position of Arsenal is not good enough. Even if we believe the stories that we have only £16m (highly improbable), we can get a good enough DM for that price and show some intent.
Even if the board doesn’t want what the fans want, there is only so far you can push an undesirable/dishonest product before people suss you out. The best policy is to come out and say – we will do our best but will have a limited transfer budget for x years till we sort things out. Fans will stick with a club that doesn’t treat them like idiots and says one thing but does another.

No one begged Wenger to say we would strengthen and keep the team together! No one begged Gazidis to tell us 4th isn’t good enough! We need them to come out and set things straight if they have misled us, or carry out actions to back up their previous comments. Anything else will be greeted by more booing from the stands and people walking away from tickets that whatever financial problems we are currently having will be multiplied beyond belief.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by Ibime(m): 1:26pm On Jul 30, 2009
nateevs:

Is Arsenal not a listed company on the exchange?
Arsenal's financial problems don't have to come from AW. .
Isn't it in public domain.?
What Arsenal is going to do with the money they have is what may not be in public domain.

£600m for new stadium no be yam. . . . I had heard Debo say that Arsenals debt repayments are @ £5m for 25 years, but thats just £125m. What happened to the other £475m, not to talk of interest payments. I think the cost of the new stadium looms larger than most people imagine.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by debosky(m): 1:28pm On Jul 30, 2009
nateevs:

Is Arsenal not a listed company on the exchange?
Arsenal's financial problems don't have to come from AW. .
Isn't it in public domain.?
What Arsenal is going to do with the money they have is what may not be in public domain.
Exactly - information in the public domain is 'high level' i.e it won't be broken down to show how much went on transfers and so on, it will show 'profit' and 'total expenditure'. There isn't even a separation between spending on players and spending on staff.


Bottom line is Arsenal's mortgage's in negative equity  grin. . . They are currently paying more than their stadium is worth.
That is irrelevant - our stadium payments are LONG TERM at ~£5m per year so that clearly isn't the source of the problem. It's inflow of cash that is the issue.


And Highbury is now worth far less than they thot it'll be.  

That is unclear but may be true - in any case, the debts from the property business are 'ring fenced' so even if that goes bust, it affects that aspect of the business alone with the banks reposes sing the buildings. Even at that, I don't expect it to happen.


Improper fiscal and risk analysis. . . across the board. . . field and boardroom!

We made some tough deals early on with Emirates & Nike to secure construction of the Emirates. Compared to what other clubs are making now, we settled too low for those deals and got the cash upfront. As a result, we are not getting as much capital inflow as we might, and with the recession hitting hard, stadium revenues will be impacted to some extent – this is the main danger. TV revenue will come in, so will CL money if we do well, but if we can’t fill the stadium, the £3m gate takings per game get affected and can cause us serious harm.

The properties business was supposed to yield profit which could be used for two things – paying down the debt/reducing annual payments and yielding a sizeable pot to use on transfers. The delay in that happening means that the ‘frugal’ years transfer-wise need to go on for a few more years for that profit to come in.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by tkb417(m): 1:31pm On Jul 30, 2009
nateevs:

Is Arsenal not a listed company on the exchange?
Arsenal's financial problems don't have to come from AW. .
Isn't it in public domain.?
What Arsenal is going to do with the money they have is what may not be in public domain.

Bottom line is Arsenal's mortgage's in negative equity grin. . . They are currently paying more than their stadium is worth.
And Highbury is now worth far less than they thot it'll be.
Improper fiscal and risk analysis. . . across the board. . . field and boardroom!

hmm  embarassed
Improper fiscal and risk analysis?

How possible is it for AFC to be shielded from the global financial probs?
All debts are going bad.  .   .   . Facilities arranged pre credit crunch surely didnt factor in the seemingly loss in values on assets
The smartest risk analyst on wall street must be licking his fingers right now!

It is not about the decision makers, it is not about Arsenal .   .   .   .

Ask Roman about his views grin grin
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by tkb417(m): 1:35pm On Jul 30, 2009
We made some tough deals early on with Emirates & Nike to secure construction of the Emirates. Compared to what other clubs are making now, we settled too low for those deals and got the cash upfront. As a result, we are not getting as much capital inflow as we might, and with the recession hitting hard, stadium revenues will be impacted to some extent – this is the main danger. TV revenue will come in, so will CL money if we do well, but if we can’t fill the stadium, the £3m gate takings per game get affected and can cause us serious harm.

thats the thing!
Any profit making entity will surely be singing some 'dirge ' right now
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by justkunmi(m): 1:45pm On Jul 30, 2009
Arsenal.has.more.problems.than.the.ones.we.see. There's.alot.happening,underneath.nobody.knows. Financial.issues.laced.with.a.confused.manager.with.unsatisfied.players.and.impatient.fans. These.problems.run.deep.!.

In.the.last.couple.of.seasons. .Arsenal.has.sold.more.players.than.they.have.bought. They've.sold.players.without.replacing.them. And.when.they.buy. .they.buy.cheaper. . Eg. If.they.sell.3.players.and.make.50.million. .they'll.replace.them.with.2.players. .and.part.with.20.million.
Like.they.are.saving.money.or.something.

Arsenal.would.remain.an.under-acheiving.club.until.they.solve.these.issues. .

Brace.urselves. .Arsenal.fans. .!
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by invisible2(m): 1:52pm On Jul 30, 2009
Selling players to avoid the melt down sounds right, till you start to witness empty stadiums like in Italy.

Football is an entertainment business and fans come out to pay and watch top performers playing, not coming out to watch third rate players struggling every week to hold their own against some stars.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by debosky(m): 1:58pm On Jul 30, 2009
Ibime:

£600m for new stadium no be yam. . . . I had heard Debo say that Arsenals debt repayments are @ £5m for 25 years, but thats just £125m. What happened to the other £475m, not to talk of interest payments. I think the cost of the new stadium looms larger than most people imagine.

Our debt as at 2008 was £389m made up of stadium debt of £250m and highbury financing of £139m. The stadium debt is a long term bond, of which we are paying £5m at present, repayment rates are likely to increase further along the life of the debt. Interest payments are the killer, with £20m per year being required to service the stadium debt.

The Construction debt is ring fenced and payments are only to go into that from sales of houses.

In essence, we need ~£25m per year to pay off debts, before talking about investments in players.

Our profit after tax was around £35m so we have about £15m to spend each year after paying our debt obligations.

That's a rough summary of our debt situation. When we do sell players, we make some profit on that, and you can add that to our transfer kitty.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by justkunmi(m): 2:03pm On Jul 30, 2009
@debosky
So.invariably. .u.saying.Arsenal.would.remain.under.achieving.until.u.pay.off.ur.debts Or.until.a.rich.dude.buys.the.club?
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by nateevs(m): 2:14pm On Jul 30, 2009
@Tkb

I wasn't trying to act like someone out there was a better risk analyst. No!. . . It hit everyone real hard and unexpectedly. No matter how try to hide under the shadows of the recession though, the fact is we all have bitten more than we can chew is why we are hit hard.
My citing of Arsenal's risk analysis is that they built their stadium at the wrong time. . Though they probably signed and sealed the building years even before the early signs of the recession became clear.
I don't know how they are repaying - if the facility was on variable interests, they could have benefited from the decline in interest rates.
The problem is when it is fixed.

My point is the expected income levels from the sale, lease/rent of property in Highbury and the Emirates have plunged. .but selling players to meet up with forecast annual earnings to refinance their loans, I think, is not the way out either. I am not a pro. . . but like someone said, football is entertainment. The fans make the club. This is not a typical business where you could offload some assets to stay afloat, the business in this case is massively hinged on appeal - entertainment!

If Arsenal don't appeal to their fans like they used to, you'll see decline in attendance, decline in merchandising, and thereby affecting earnings even more. When that happens, they can't attract big players any more, which will hamper their chances of qualifying and reaching the last stages of cup competitions where the mega bucks is.

This to me smells like a gradual but sure meltdown. . Hence my improper risk analysis rants.
I may be wrong on all this, like I said I am not a pro. Just my opinion.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by Nobody: 2:23pm On Jul 30, 2009
justkunmi:

@debosky
So.invariably. .u.saying.Arsenal.would.remain.under.achieving.until.u.pay.off.ur.debts Or.until.a.rich.dude.buys.the.club?

Not necessarily. . .the business model is essentially self sustaining if you look at the fact that gate reciepts just about equate the loan repayments. What the board are looking at is not overtly rocking the boat by being prudent financially and only making purchases that would clearly improve the team i.e AA23 and Vermaelen.
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by MrCrackles(m): 2:26pm On Jul 30, 2009
ahonohai:

Not necessarily. . .the business model is essentially self sustaining if you look at the fact that gate reciepts just about equate the loan repayments. What the board are looking at is not overtly rocking the boat by being prudent financially and only making purchases that would clearly improve the team i.e AA23 and Vermaelen.

Sweet! wink
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by HNIC(m): 2:39pm On Jul 30, 2009
ahonohai:

Not necessarily. . .the business model is essentially self sustaining if you look at the fact that gate reciepts just about equate the loan repayments. What the board are looking at is not overtly rocking the boat by being prudent financially and only making purchases that would clearly improve the team i.e AA23 and Vermaelen.
I still think all these are knee jerk reactions.
AW has not said he won't spend anymore in this window.
He has said, he feels the team is strong enought to compete and will add more to it only if necessary.
Ehen, let's wait na.
He has about 32 days more.

I didn't expect him to come out and say:
'Now that I have gotten rid of those 2 silly Africans and I have over 40m,i am set to splash the cash'
Not his style at all.
Letz wait and see
Re: Arsenal Fan Thread: For Gunners Only by klo: 2:45pm On Jul 30, 2009
think we ve enof financial gurus on this thread to suggest a fool proof formula to bail the club out of this financial mess. but me thinks it does not take loads of csh to come up with strong tem tht cn contest for honors in the new season. so come up with some good options guys and stop the debt profile analysis

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