Seun:

All the demons I have met in my life have been women above the age of 16 who have been brought up in the "Nigerian" way. (The Nigerian demons of wickedness have passed from father to daughter through many beatings!)

Na wa for you o. Wetin Nigerian women do you?

technically, all punishment is some form of abuse.

So, people, don't be intimidated when someone tells you that yelling is verbal abuse, flogging is physical abuse. Telling your kid that you are disappointed in him in a nice voice is mental abuse too.

Just like you learn best from pain, burning your hand on a hot stove teaches you not to touch the hot stove, punishment would condition a reflex against doing wrong. The problem is that unlike something which directly causes pain, wrongdoing in most cases causes pleasure. That itself makes wrongdoing a reinforcing behavior and there are many aspects to why a certain thing is wrong, so one punishment may not be enough to combat both.

Ultimately, you must find the punishment that whoever you are punishing responds best to. You just have to be careful that your punishment passes the would I do this in public test.

common seun! get real and be truthful with yourself , as a kid were there not times when you just wanted to be naugthy and until you see that little cane behind the door you wont behave yourself simply because as a kid you realized that was a rod of correction and anytime you do something really wrong it appears, and to keep it at a distant you always try to be well behaved. so why shouldnt your kids be brought up that way when it worked for you.

smiley: as a kid were there not times when you just wanted to be naugthy

My answer is 'no'. Children just want to have fun. If you ignore then and they think that by doing something naughty they will get a little bit of your attention, they will do it. If you keep them occupied with constructive activities which they can use to catch their fun, they won't have time to be "naughty". Children are very easy to understand if you're a listener.

my neighbours 7 year old put the family cat in the tiolet, poured ariel, shut the toilet seat cover and flushed. His explanation - he wanted to give the cat a bath!!! now how angelic is that. yeah, i can hear u, he didnt no any better

First of all, the life of a cat cannot be as valuable as the relationship I have with my child. If I have to sacrifice seven cats to make my son a well-adjusted individual, I will do it without feeling sorry for the cats. Afterall, if the cat doesn't die in a toilet the Calabar people in your area will catch it one day and use it in pepper-soup.

Here is how I'll deal with this situation, assuming I am being rational:
Me: Son, why did you flush the cat in the toiley.
Son: I wanted to give the cat a bath.
Me: That's not the way to give an animal a bath - in fact, cats don't bath because they don't like water. See, the cat is dying . You should have asked me first!
Son: (already crying, because he's an angel) Daddy I'm sorry.
Me: Ok, go and apologize to your mom and let's go and bury the cat.
<after burial>
Me: Son, I hope you've learnt a lesson today: it's good to be careful when you want to do something new. Ask questions from elders or those who have more experience so you don't make big mistakes that will make everyone unhappy. Your mother and I have agreed that for the next week you'll do so-and-so chore in order to pay us back for the dead cat.

Case closed. The life of a cat has been lost, but my son has learnt an important lesson about mistakes, apologies,and restitution. It's a sacrifice I am willing to accept. There's no use getting excited over minor disasters like this. Use the situation to strengthen the bond in your family - that's my belief.

Remember the rule that says, "don't attribute to malice what can easily be explained by stupidity". Do you really think the boy wanted to kill the cat? Lighten up!

yes. . I'm sure that all kids whose parents were around them 24/7 never did anything wrong. Its kind of hard to when you're parents are everywhere you are making sure you do whatever they tell you.

For people who are not God and cannot be with their kids every second of the day, other tactics are necessary.

Here is another situation using similar wording:

Me: Son, why did you stab the cat to death.
Son: I wanted to give the cat more breathing holes.
Me: That's not the way to give an animal breathing holes- in fact, cats don't need more because God made them with what they needed. See, the cat is dying Cry. You should have asked me first!
Son: (already crying, because he's an angel) Daddy I'm sorry.
Me: Ok, go and apologize to your mom and let's go and bury the cat.
<after burial>
Me: Son, I hope you've learnt a lesson today: it's good to be careful when you want to do something new. Ask questions from elders or those who have more experience so you don't make big mistakes that will make everyone unhappy. Your mother and I have agreed that for the next week you'll do so-and-so chore in order to pay us back for the dead cat.

There is no way I would respond that way to my son killing a cat in that manner. There are things done in fun w/o knowing the consequences, and there are things which are not done that way. Kids are not ignorant automatons

it depends on the way u wanna trainn up ur child................... my dad is so predictive, u wont know wen u`ll get into troublw wiv him and u neither wont know wen u are free. if u see my dad and his children, we are so close as in close but wen it comes to discipline........... jst dont talk bout that. i ave been given 25 lashes at an early age like 6 by my dad b4 for some stupid offences. i think it all depends on the parent sha, for me if my dad never use caness, slaps insulting words, i dont think i wuld ave ever learnt from my mistakes. in fact now wen i think bout it i realize i really deserved those slaps and beatings. but the funniest thing was that any time my dad flogged us, after a min its over. the next thing u see us doing is talking and joking.
so i think it all depends on the child, if u feel ur child can learn mistakes by beating him, then u better go ahead. children are very delicate and the sooner the better. i totally disagree wiv sweet talking wiv ur child, let him know its bad. if after 3 occurences he still does the same thing, then smacking shuld be the next thing to do.
enuf said

WELL seun, if i didnt know better i'd say u were naive. believe me,at 7 yrs old you know what youre doing when flushing a cat!!! and if you think that the life of the FAMILY pet is a good sacrifice for your childs mental and psychological balance, then goodluck. but sorry to say, ure gonna end up with a very "SICK" KID! the day he decides to shoot his sibling to check if his skin is bullet proof, pls make sure you hug him very well, tell him to apologise to mummy and you all go and get a nice snack to eat.when u say children are very easy to understand, i can only shake my head in amazement. please do not get me wrong. i am not saying turn your kids into punching bags, but you can spank them and they still know you love them.
when my 4 yr old does something wrong and i have to spank him, he crys,but he's not mad at mummy, he still comes to me while crying and wants to sit on my legs cos he knows i did it in love. Kids arent stupid. Most times they know what theyre doing. Infact, when my baby got her first tooth at 6 months,while breastfeeding she used to bite my nipple. there was this day it was so painful that i hit her.YES! i did, and guess what? she never did that again!

alheri:

WELL seun, if i didnt know better i'd say u were naive. believe me,at 7 years old you know what youre doing when flushing a cat!!! and if you think that the life of the FAMILY pet is a good sacrifice for your childs mental and psychological balance, then goodluck. but sorry to say, ure going to end up with a very "SICK" KID! the day he decides to shoot his sibling to check if his skin is bullet proof, please make sure you hug him very well, tell him to apologise to mummy and you all go and get a nice snack to eat.when u say children are very easy to understand, i can only shake my head in amazement. please do not get me wrong. i am not saying turn your kids into punching bags, but you can spank them and they still know you love them.
when my 4 yr old does something wrong and i have to spank him, he crys,but he's not mad at mummy, he still comes to me while crying and wants to sit on my legs because he knows i did it in love. Kids arent stupid. Most times they know what theyre doing. Infact, when my baby got her first tooth at 6 months,while breastfeeding she used to bite my nipple. there was this day it was so painful that i hit her.YES! i did, and guess what? she never did that again!

exactly, me i go discipline my child 4 real o

I've done it before with other people's kids staying with us, and it worked, so I'm not naive. Just because your parents used to terrorize you doesn't mean you have to terrorize your children.

What pains me most about the "Nigerian" way of treating a child is that by the time the child is 10 or 11 she will already be beating ("disciplining?" her junior ones too. It is one thing to terrorize a child out of ignorance, it is another thing to turn a child into a little demon and I hate that!

Allonym, in all my years of interacting with children, I have never seen a child stab a cat to death. But I have seen children being beaten mercilessly for mistakes like dropping a glass cup.

Ask yourself this question: why is our society so corrupt, despite the heavy-handed "discipline" we claim to be giving our children? I'll answer it for you: because it doesn't work.

As for the person that said his father used to give him lashes, let me ask you a question. When your father makes a mistake, is there anyone to give him lashes? Assuming your father cheated on your mother or dropped a glass cup mistakenly (yes, it happens to adults too) will his wife take a cane and start beating him? No! And this shows that caning is not a means of preparing young people for adult life - it is a means of justifying the beatings you received when you were a child.

I'm gonna sweet-talk my child and she'll be great. She'll be a successful woman without being a B**ch.

for me i think canning worked well for me ooooooooo. if not for those lashes i swear, i`ll be another story entirely. thats why i said it depends on the child. i

Seun:

I've done it before with other people's kids staying with us, and it worked, so I'm not naive. Just because your parents used to terrorize you doesn't mean you have to terrorize your children.

What pains me most about the "Nigerian" way of treating a child is that by the time the child is 10 or 11 she will already be beating ("disciplining?" her junior ones too. It is one thing to terrorize a child out of ignorance, it is another thing to turn a child into a little demon and I hate that!
[SNIP]

Everything depends on the context in which a punishment is given. This is the one thing that my wife and me quarrel about. She used to have the habit of punishing the kids by giving them a slap.
Now, even though I think using any physical violence should only be the last resort, it's not the slap that is harmfull, but the context in which the slap was given.

My wife punishes only when she can not longer handle the situation, when the kids are out of control. She doesn't step in early enough to be effective. If the child cannot connect the punishment with the wrongdoing, she will be utterly confused, won't understand why she was being punished and start to think that this behaviour is normal.

As a parent, you always need to act immediately after the offense. You need to be consistent [/b]in your approach.
I usually tell them one to stop when they're doing something wrong. After that one more warning follows. I always say what kind of punishment they'll receive if they don't comply. If they still continue, they'll be punished immediately and I will never ever bulge to their cries.
After the punishment I take them with me to explain what they did wrong and why I punished them. This is a very effective way of handling my kids. They give us way less headaches when I'm around then when they're only around my wife. She knows perfectly well that this is very effective, but she cannot bring herself to act [b]immediately [/b]after the wrongdoing

Now concerning the older children punishing the younger ones, I think this [b]absolutely, totally unacceptable. I will never, ever accept this in my household. If my son ever tries this on his sister, he will be punished far more severely than for any other offense.
Anyway, children should never have any authority over other children.

@nferyn. i agree with you there. it is unacceptable for siblings to spank/punish each other. And seun, noone is talking about "terrorism" here. my parents spanked but never terrorised me and i dont terrorize my kids. like nferyn said you have to act immediately after the offense after consistent warnings. kids that beat or punish there siblings do that probably cos thier parents show favor to one kid as against the other. if that happens around you, maybe the parents show favor in handling there kids. When i was growing up,if my parents spanked me and i was crying, my siblings cryd along with me and vice versa. they never spanked me just cos they were also spanked when they were younger. I just believe that,all you have to do is apply wisdom and caution by showing love even when you have to punish. If you want to sweet talk your kid,FINE. But that dosent make spanking "TERRORISM" or bad.

Nferyn, I agree with you. Consistency is essential and quick punishments work better, especially for younger children. I believe in being consistently gentle and fair.

If you read the scenario I presented earlier, you'll notice that it doesn't contradict these principles. The "punishments" - apologize to your mom, cat burial, chores to pay back - are delivered almost immediately.

In Nigeria, older siblings beat their younger siblings. And in hostels, students in higher classes "punish" those in lower classes for offences like "disrespect". I don't think it's possible for someone at the recieving end of parental aggression not to release it by punishing someone else.

I have noticed that when you hit a child, first she tries to hit you back. Then when she notices it doesn't make you cry, she tries it on her mates. If it works on her mates, she becomes a bully. The lesson you have thought her: "when you are big and strong you can make others do what you want by hurting them or threatening to do so". I don't think there's any Nigerian who doesn't recognize the phrase "I will beat you o!"

I want to prepare my child for the real world. In the real (civilized) world, people don't go about hitting each other. There are laws against that sort of thing even in Nigeria. Who knows whether parental violence contributes to the constant state of warfare in the African continent? We have a continent full of people who believe, "if you can't get what you want, use force!" How long will we continue this nonsense? What about dialogue?

The best way to punish a kid is to hang him on the ceiling fan. He'll definitely learn that way.

Seun:

[SNIP] I don't think there's any Nigerian who doesn't recognize the phrase "I will beat you o!"
[SNIP]

This is all too familiar.
I regularly say jokingly to my wife that if she would actually do it once for every 10 times she makes the threat, she would still have sore hands.

Seun:

If you read the scenario I presented earlier, you'll notice that it doesn't contradict these principles. The "punishments" - apologize to your mom, cat burial, chores to pay back - are delivered almost immediately.

Yes, but you still maintain that you cannot use physical punishment under any circumstances. You can strive for that, but you cannot possibly maintain it in the long run
1. Children differ greatly in how they react to different types of punishment, some will only react to physical punishment (but if you act consistently, you won't need to resport to that very often)
2. Very young children need a stimulus-response approach and that includes physical punishment
3. Any threat of violence (e.g. I will slap you 5 times on your bottom if you don't do as I say) should be carried out if the child fails to react appropriately, even if in hindsight it wasn't the best solution. Consistency is very important

I personally think it's not right to hit your child, if you do that here in the U.K, you can go to the jail.

@Z4M4eva. Well in Nigeria you don't go to jail for spanking/hitting your child. I guess thats because the law doesnt recognise that as an offence/crime.

I know you don't go to jail for that in nigeria, all i'm trying to say, or my point is that it's wrong to hit your child, I don't know about other people, and their opinions, but personally, I would never hit my children.

Even if they do something terrible? You will just rub their head and tell them "with love" that they shouldn't do it again?

i'm with goodguy on this, there must be repercussions for bad actions. Maybe verbal is enough for the everyday, but for something really bad, you gotta step it up.

i cant stand to see little chidren cry so my own best way of punishing kids is bringing them to the realization that what they have done is wrong and correct them.

Yes, I agree with you Nana

@Goodguy, I don't know what I will do, But what I do know is that, I will not hit my kid, I don't know, I just feel it's not right.

How would you feel if you hit your kids and they cry?,I would just feel so guilty, and harsh, and very horrible.

I dont feel guilty or harsh or horrible when I spank my kid cause I believe its for his good. Parents dont hit their kids cause they want them to cry. Noone LOVES to see their kid cry. And what you think that its only spanking punishments that make kids cry?

Oh ok, then Alheri, na just my opinion o!

All I know is that my child will be peace-loving, gentle, smart, ambitious yet non-violent.

I totally disagree Spanking children, it doesnt help.
Spanking does not teach children how to change what they do, as good discipline should.

Ive noticed that older children who are hit often are learning to solve problems by hitting others. Many parents notice that after a spanking children may settle down for a while, but soon they start misbehaving again. This is very common.
Although spanking make chidren afraid to misbehave, but probably only when you are there. they need to learn to control their own behavior even when you are not around to watch them.
No child needs a spanking, it can be dangerous, you can never tell when they (children)will be hurt badly by a spanking if you lose control. Children do not need to be hit in order to learn how to behave.
Not only spanking can change children, you can do alots of things that will help your children learn self-control, you can help them feel good,, you can guide them, you can set limits,and you can teach them how to think for themselves,  you can correct misbehavior by talking to them.

I really don't see anything wrong is spanking a child. I believe one spanks a child because he loves him. If you keep talking and talking, the child will continue committing the same offence since he knows you'll only talk. Infact, it will get to a point where he will start quoting u (in his mind) before you start talking to him.

When you spank, you'll let the child know/believe you're doing it out of love and not because u hate him. That way, even if the child knows you'll only beat him next time he commits the same offence, he'll think of the fact that "My dad/mum ain't gonna like this".

Most of us here went to secondary school in nigeria. We all know that we cant escape it in school even when your parents dont beat you. This is the truth.

If the child thinks you are beating out of love, he'll be ok. But if the child is intelligent enough to realise that you are beating him out of ignorance, then you will have problems.

There are parents who have been able to raise disciplined children without beating. So it is either you learn how to discipline a child non-violently, or you go ahead and beat the child and hope the child sees it as an expression of love.

If you are willing to go thrugh the pain of childbirth and the struggles of childbearing, why is it so hard to learn how to discipline a child nonviolently? If I were president I will force all married couples to go to parenting school to learn it before they are allowed to raise kids.

Spanking!!!(but lovingly,though)

@Seun:
My parents (especially my mum) used to spank me real hard. I still love her so much, no matter what she did to me in the past. Does that tell you sum'n?

I think different parents should discpline their children the best way they feel they can. If spanking is what they know how to do best, they shouldn't be criticized for it. And if it's talking they know how to do best, let them go ahead. It's a freeworld afterall.. Though when I grow up, I will try as much as possible to avoid spanking my own children. But when they do something which I feel spanking is the best way to deal with it, I WILL NOT HESITATE.