Brigance:


I haven't thought in this direction before.

However, a time before now, I'd have said the Spirit came on me as soon as I became born again..

Funny enough, he'd probably agree with me..

Then by what spirit were you convicted to become born again?

I think Olaadegbu's point on objective morals is that they are as objective as God's Will. Since Divine Will is an objective though hardly ascertained fact, a reflection of it is as well objective.

PastorAIO:


Then by what spirit were you convicted to become born again?

lol.

I wonder the kind of pastor your moniker claims you to be if you don't know the drill.

well, lemme iterate.

After you must have been convicted of your sins, evidenced by a session of wrenching tears, then you say with your mouth and believe with your heart(of course not head).

Then your version of the Holy Spirit is released onto you.

Thereafter, you understand the deep things of the Bible.

Brigance:


lol.

I wonder the kind of pastor your moniker claims you to be if you don't know the drill.

well, lemme iterate.

After you must have been convicted of your sins, evidenced by a session of wrenching tears, then you say with your mouth and believe with your heart(of course not head).

Then your version of the Holy Spirit is released onto you.

Thereafter, you understand the deep things of the Bible.

Then after you return to your sinner ways. Lying deceiving and etc

Kay17:

Then after you return to your sinner ways. Lying deceiving and etc

Well, there's a little tweak at this stage...
Some Big Daddy Yahweh is ready to take responsibility now....
However, you must always remember to inform him of your sins in time...

Kay17:
I think Olaadegbu's point on objective morals is that they are as objective as God's Will. Since Divine Will is an objective though hardly ascertained fact, a reflection of it is as well objective.

His point is a lot more than that o!

He says that they are objective and he knows them. They happen to tally with his own personal prejudices (how lucky for him).

The will of an omnipotent god cannot be thwarted therefore nothing can happen against his/her will.

Or as Kuyuk Khan put it:

And when you say: "I am a Christian. I pray to God. I arraign and despise others," how do you know who is pleasing to God and to whom He allots His grace? How can you know it, that you speak such words?

Thanks to the power of the Eternal Heaven, all lands have been given to us from sunrise to sunset. How could anyone act other than in accordance with the commands of Heaven?

That is what we have to tell you. If you fail to act in accordance therewith, how can we forsee what will happen to you? Heaven alone knows.

The proof of any knowledge is prognosis. If you say you know the will of god then go to war and predict the outcome. If you are too chicken to go to war at least you can stick your neck out in faith in some way or the other. If you know then your prognosis will be correct.

Brigance:


What else do I do when I make coitus with my wife without contraceptives?

Besides, can you reconcile your above statement with this below:

Matthew 5:48 (NIV)

"Be Perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Are you saying that you are able to create life?

Beautiful writeup.

finofaya:
The problem of finding objective moral values is not solved by calling on a God who decides what the moral values are. Objective moral values have to be independent of every moral agent, and God, like man, is a moral agent.

Besides, we live in a world where there is no consensus as to what the objective moral values are, if any. Everyone, theists and atheists alike, disagrees on what it might be. Most of us are probably wrong about what it is, which is the same thing as not knowing what it is. Any objective moral values which exist are currently of no use to humanity since most or all of us don't know them. Looking for a moral code which allows us to coexist in harmony is a more worthwhile pursuit than squabbling over where we can find objective morality. If such a thing were to be found we most likely still wouldn't follow it anyway since you can hardly convince everyone of it. For example, assume you are right and whatever moral code you follow is indeed objective. Now tell me what effect your discovery of this objective morality has had on our moral landscape. Does telling people that it is objective cause them to adopt it?

I laugh at your ingnorance. so if we are to depend on human moral values. what we will get is transgender,arbortion,Legal Sucide,gayism,same sex miarriage,mass killing,Religeous killing, Nudity .becos human moral is subjective.
Since every human being has his or her own view of what is moral and what is not.

PastorAIO:


Only God can impose a subjective moral code on others. Okay.

Why must you impose your moral code, subjective or objective, on others?

Will it pain you if you can't impose your moral code on others? If so, why so?

He created us in his image so he can impose his morality on us abi?

Biko, why did he then not want us to have knowledge of Good and Evil, according to your source?

Why wasn't the moral code automatic when he made us in his image, instead Man had to eat the knowledge of good and evil first?

He created us with the ability to make a Choice.
Of what use having the knowledge of good and bad is.when you cannot do good by your own capacity? i hope you known that man's knowledge of good and bad is the problem we have in this world today.

EZEIGBO1OFIMO:
The biggest fallacy to this article and mode of thinking would be the questions; Who is God?, If God is a being transcending the human level of consciousness, how then can you seek the answers of morality from him?, Why is left to a few individual to communicate with God?, if God the supreme creator of the Universe , all there was, is and will ever be, lays down moral codes to us, wouldn't it be an inherent violation of the entropy of the Universe which resonates on free will?.

Which Universe resonates on free will?. if the Universe resonates on free will .then why do we have gravity and other laws of nature? are they not their for our benefit?
Same with God's moral values contained in his ten Commandments. their is no part of that law that we (Human's) have not benefitted from it. no one wants to be killed or lied to. no one wants his spouse to commit adultery. e.t.c the list is endless

KAG:


I guess we have different ideas of morality, then. I consider the execution of children to be immoral, and can never find any reason to justify their wholesale execution. But that's just me. Perhaps it's why I don't appeal to your god for "moral objectivity".

Which Children? all those Children were lost to idol worship. they were possessed by Demons.
Do you know that liberals and atheist are the main advocate for abortion and de-population agenda ? so why contracdict yourself.

blueAgent:



I laugh at your ingnorance. so if we are to depend on human moral values. what we will get is transgender,arbortion,Legal Sucide,gayism,same sex miarriage,mass killing,Religeous killing, Nudity .becos human moral is subjective.
Since every human being has his or her own view of what is moral and what is not.

I laugh at your indoctrination. Explain why all the things you listed, except killing, are wrong.

Then explain why every of your God's moral views should be correct.

finofaya:


I laugh at your indoctrination. Explain why all the things you listed, except killing, are wrong.

Then explain why every of your God's moral views should be correct.

I should ask you which of those things do you want to be done to you or you are invouled in?
I guess you accept been lied to, you accept infiedelity or killing of your loved ones.

blueAgent:



I should ask you which of those things do you want to be done to you or you are invouled in?
I guess you accept been lied to, you accept infiedelity or killing of your loved ones.

Where is the explanation you're supposed to give?

finofaya:


Where is the explanation you're supposed to give?

All human's have different view of what moral values should be. years back same sex marriage was frowned upon. today it is common .changing cultures and value systems have lead to moral decandence.
Eg in US. their is debate of , weather to allow Male transgenders to use the same restroom facility with females.

But God's moral values are constant they do not differ from time to time. or change with culture and they are independent of Human view.

Like i said before show me one God's moral value that you do not agree to or is Globally unacceptable.

blueAgent:



All human's have different view of what moral values should be. years back same sex marriage was frowned upon. today it is common .changing cultures and value systems have lead to moral decandence.
Eg in US. their is debate of , weather to allow Male transgenders to use the same restroom facility with females.

But God's moral values are constant they do not differ from time to time. or change with culture and they are independent of Human view.

Like i said before show me one God's moral value that you do not agree to or is Globally unacceptable.

Wrong answer.

finofaya:

Wrong answer.

So Explain to me. the source of moral values.

blueAgent:



But God's moral values are constant they do not differ from time to time. or change with culture and they are independent of Human view.

Where did you hear that? I put to you that you are wrong!!

PastorAIO:

Where did you hear that? I put to you that you are wrong!!

Disprove it.

blueAgent:


He created us with the ability to make a Choice.
Of what use having the knowledge of good and bad is.when you cannot do good by your own capacity? i hope you known that man's knowledge of good and bad is the problem we have in this world today.

No, I don't even know what you mean when you say that man's knowledge of good and bad is the problem we have in this world today. I presume that you are referring to the story in the bible. In that case I'm sure that I have a different understanding of the story from what you have.

Is it really the knowledge of good and evil that is the problem? Or is the the expulsion from the garden? Or maybe just the act of disobedience?

blueAgent:



Disprove it.

Bring the moral values that you claim are God's.

PastorAIO:

Bring the moral values that you claim are God's.

You know the ten Commandments.

PastorAIO:


No, I don't even know what you mean when you say that man's knowledge of good and bad is the problem we have in this world today. I presume that you are referring to the story in the bible. In that case I'm sure that I have a different understanding of the story from what you have.

Is it really the knowledge of good and evil that is the problem? Or is the the expulsion from the garden? Or maybe just the act of disobedience?

Man's disobedience lead to the Knowledge.which is the problem. without Man's disobedience. man could not have known wat Lust,greed,or Murder is.he could not have found himself in a position to struggle between two choices. good and bad.which in most cases the bad one wins.

blueAgent:



Man's disobedience lead to the Knowledge.which is the problem. without Man's disobedience. man could not have known wat Lust,greed,or Murder is.he could not have found himself in a position to struggle between two choices. good and bad.which in most cases the bad one wins.

So the man is to be absolved for his disobedience because at that time he couldn't have know that disobedience was a sin.

How did he face the choice whether to eat the fruit or not when before he ate the fruit 'he could not have found himself in a position to struggle between two choices.'?

PastorAIO:


So the man is to be absolved for his disobedience because at that time he couldn't have know that disobedience was a sin.

How did he face the choice whether to eat the fruit or not when before he ate the fruit 'he could not have found himself in a position to struggle between two choices.'?

God gave him instruction not to eat the forbidden fruit. that is freewill. Man had over a thousand other trees to eat from. except one.

The event in the gardern of Eden was not just about man's loyalty to God. but about God's right to rule the Universe as the creator. which was been questioned and contested by the devil. millions of years even before God made man . the event at the gardern of Eden was watched by all the created beings .(Angels and demons) also by God and the devil. it was a major defining moment in the history of the Universe.

Let me ask you .if you are told by an electrician not to touch only one live electric wire out of thousands other wires, for your own sake. would you not Obliege?

blueAgent:


You know the ten Commandments.

A. I don't accept your claim that the ten commandments are God's moral laws.

But, B. I'll proceed as though I accept just for the sake of the argument.

The ten commandments

1)

2) Numbers 21:8-9

3)

4) Acts 20:7

5)Luke 14:26

6)1Sam 15:3

7)Hosea 3:1

Proverbs 6:30

9)

10) This one na joke in light of the entire story of the entry into canaan.

blueAgent:



God gave him instruction not to eat the forbidden fruit. that is freewill. Man had over a thousand other trees to eat from. except one.

The event in the gardern of Eden was not just about man's loyalty to God. but about God's right to rule the Universe as the creator. which was been questioned and contested by the devil. millions of years even before God made man . the event at the gardern of Eden was watched by all the created beings .(Angels and demons) also by God and the devil. it was a major defining moment in the history of the Universe.

Let me ask you .if you are told by an electrician not to touch only one live electric wire out of thousands other wires, for your own sake. would you not Obliege?

Instruction is instruction. Freewill is Freewill. Please don't confuse me, you know I don't have the superior holy spirit intellect that you guys have. My question was very simple:

When the man was disobeying, did he know it was wrong or not? Yes or no. Was he making a choice or not? Yes or no.

Everything else na irrelevant sermon.

PastorAIO:


Instruction is instruction. Freewill is Freewill. Please don't confuse me, you know I don't have the superior holy spirit intellect that you guys have. My question was very simple:

When the man was disobeying, did he know it was wrong or not? Yes or no. Was he making a choice or not? Yes or no.

Everything else na irrelevant sermon.

He knew he was making a wrong Choice. definetaly he was making a Choice. U are trying to confuse yourself.
Freewill does not prevent the act of been instructed or been advised.

blueAgent:




He knew he was making a wrong Choice. definetaly he was making a Choice. U are trying to confuse yourself.
Freewill does not prevent the act of been instructed or been advised.

He knew his choice was wrong, so therefore he was aware of Good and evil already. Plus he was making a choice so you were wrong when you said:

blueAgent:

Man's disobedience lead to the Knowledge.which is the problem. without Man's disobedience. man could not have known wat Lust,greed,or Murder is. he could not have found himself in a position to struggle between two choices. good and bad. which in most cases the bad one wins.

PastorAIO:


A. I don't accept your claim that the ten commandments are God's moral laws.

But, B. I'll proceed as though I accept just for the sake of the argument.

The ten commandments

1)

2) Numbers 21:8-9

3)

4) Acts 20:7

5)Luke 14:26

6)1Sam 15:3

7)Hosea 3:1

Proverbs 6:30

9)

10) This one na joke in light of the entire story of the entry into canaan.

How does this disprove God's moral laws.
One of the biggest lie in christanity is the lie that the death of Jesus did away with the ten commandments.
You can go through my profile to see my posts on the same arguement. i don't have much time to do that now.

www.the-ten-commandments.org/were-the-ten-commandments-abolished.html

www. the-ten-commandments.org/galatians_ceremoniallaw.html


www. http://lifehopeandtruth.com/bible/law-and-grace/jesus-vs-paul/

PastorAIO:


He knew his choice was wrong, so therefore he was aware of Good and evil already. Plus he was making a choice so you were wrong when you said:

Not wrong in the sense of knowing what sin is. like having the knowledge, of lust , murder, greed,decit,envy.
If Eve and Adam knew the conquences of their Choice . they would not have made that choice. that's why the Bible said they were Decieved.

Adam and eve knew they did wrong by disobeying God. and that's while they hid themselves after the ate the forbidden fruit.
To show you that they did not know knoweldge of good and bad.before they ate the fruit they were naked but were not ashamed of each other. but after they ate the fruit. their eyes were open(lustful eyes) they became ashmed of each other.

Eg 8yrs old baby has no knowledge of lust ,greed,murder,envy. but does it stop them from making Small choices. at that age. if they been exposed or someone influencing them to make that choice for them could lead to life of struggle in Future.