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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? (4879 Views)
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Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Richirich713: 4:53pm On Jun 27, 2016 |
ValentineMary: Is it this link? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazareth If so where in this article does it say the bold. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Richirich713: 5:08pm On Jun 27, 2016 |
Rossikk: When did Jesus die? Rossikk: That's why I read theologians and scholars trained in the new testament field. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by damosky12(m): 6:17pm On Jun 27, 2016 |
Rossikk: What is your premise that the gospel of John wasn't written by that disciple. A solid basis please. I got this. Try fault it. John 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by damosky12(m): 6:31pm On Jun 27, 2016 |
Rossikk: Going by your stance on contemporaneity, then it is rather sad that man must have believed several lies. It is held that Ptahoteph is the first philosopher, how do we know; historical writings about him by later existing ancient scholars. It us held that the earliest astronomers, mathematicians and scientists like Thales, Anaximanes, Phythagoras, etc existed based on several historical records dated after their death. In fact, the golden age scholars of the likes of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle and the works credited to the later two could easily have been forged, basically because there is no eyewitness account of their existence. Then if we are to go by your criterion of contemporaneity, then it is sad that all that human civilization is based on is falsehood. There is such a term as "oral traditions". It is a primitive tool of carrying history from a generation to another. Now, without doubt, this was a very conventional medium of keeping history in the late BCs and early ADs. Now, if those who lived around the first century AD can not be reliable by their assertions on the certainty if the person of Jesus, what else can we then believe from antiquity? If we must believe in history, we will be erring not to believe Jesus came to the world, walked the earth and died. APPARENTLY, HISTORY HAS IT. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by urahara(m): 8:10pm On Jun 27, 2016 |
otemanuduno: Loolz. Nice one Otem. Otem I prostrate unto thee . U are truly the chosen one who is to show people the errors in their ways by the use of an anti religion. 1 Like |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by ValentineMary(m): 10:01pm On Jun 27, 2016 |
Richirich713:The first non-Christian reference to Nazareth is an inscription on a marble fragment from asynagoguefound inCaesarea Maritimain 1962.[28]This fragment gives the town's name in Hebrewas נצרת (n-ṣ-r-t). The inscription dates to c. AD 300 and chronicles the assignment of priests that took place at some time after theBar Kokhba revolt, AD 132-35.[29](See"Middle Roman to Byzantine Periods" below.) An 8th-century AD Hebrew inscription, which was the earliest known Hebrew reference to Nazareth prior to the discovery of the inscription above, uses thesame form. Now tell me honestly. Did u read all the content on that wikipedia page? |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Anas09: 10:39pm On Jun 27, 2016 |
Rossikk: |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Anas09: 10:42pm On Jun 27, 2016 |
Rossikk:I honored you with my time, now that time is up, you belong in the past. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Blackfire(m): 10:46pm On Jun 27, 2016 |
Anas09: @rosssiki u ve no right to insult her... Don't do it again. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Anas09: 10:55pm On Jun 27, 2016 |
otemanuduno:Your meditations shouldn't replace your meds. Take them regularly, the looniness is becoming obvious. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by otemanuduno: 10:59pm On Jun 27, 2016 |
Anas09: But you haven't answered me, do you skip your meds? |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Rossikk(m): 12:54am On Jun 28, 2016 |
damosky12: There is widespread evidence that Aristotle, Plato etc existed. Contemporaneity is established by the fact that Plato was a teacher of Aristotle! Aristotle was his pupil! Aristotle wrote about Plato in the first person. Numerous works published by the two abound everywhere. Aristotle's father, Nicomachus, was the personal physician to King Amyntas of Macedon, Greece. These facts are all in official documents. With 'Jesus' - nothing outside the new testament confirms his existence. And the new testament was written anonymously. This means the invention of 'Jesus' is shrouded in secrecy. One suspects only a few top guys, like the Pope, and some other silent big guys in the Vatican, know the real truth about this 'Jesus' issue. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Richirich713: 4:22am On Jun 28, 2016 |
ValentineMary: That doesn't say Nazareth was founded in 300 AD, all it says is "The first non-Christian reference to Nazareth is......" Also that inscription is indirectly saying Nazareth existed prior to 300 AD. Wikipedia - "A Hebrew inscription found in Caesarea dating to the late 3rd or early 4th century mentions Nazareth as the home of the priestly Hapizzez family after the Bar Kokhba revolt (132–135 AD)." BTW do u consider all the gospel papyrus dated prior to 300 AD to be inaccurately dated. If u interested here's Wikipedia on the dates : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categories_of_New_Testament_manuscripts ValentineMary: Honestly no, ignore irrelevant stuff eg - sports, hospitals, economy etc. But this is what I found : Wikipedia - "Princeton University archaeologist Jack Finnegan describes additional archaeological evidence related to settlement in the Nazareth basin during the Bronze and Iron Ages, and states that "Nazareth was a strongly Jewish settlement in the Roman period." "James F. Strange, an American archaeologist, notes: "Nazareth is not mentioned in ancient Jewish sources earlier than the third century CE. This likely reflects its lack of prominence both in Galilee and in Judaea." "Strange originally calculated the population of Nazareth at the time of Christ as "roughly 1,600 to 2,000 people" but, in a subsequent publication, revised this figure down to "a maximum of about 480." "In 2009, Israeli archaeologist Yardenna Alexandre excavated archaeological remains in Nazareth that might date to the time of Jesus in the early Roman period. Alexandre told reporters, "The discovery is of the utmost importance since it reveals for the very first time a house from the Jewish village of Nazareth." "Other sources state that during Jesus' time, Nazareth had a population of 400 and one public bath, which was important for civic and religious purposes" |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by damosky12(m): 10:29am On Jun 28, 2016 |
Rossikk: A wide spread evidence you say. There is no eye witness account of the lives of these 3. What we have of Socrates are stories and Greek legends. What we have of Plato are works just credited to one Plato, a "student" of Socrates ( who probably didnt exist), Aristotle's existence could easily have been forged. Works credited to him was found and publicized by one Adronichus of Rhodes. The dialogues by these folks have been alleged to have their veracity uncertain. What we have of them came into light long after their death. No eye witness or clear cut blue print of their life. If you have some, let's see. What we have and believe of their existence are evidences of history, of which numerous validates the life and activities of Jesus. In fact, it is in relation to Jesus, we know that the ancient Romans executed by crucifying, Pilate approved of capital executions, his death is connected with one 'calvary' (the place of the skull), which is a contemporary archeological monument, such a place as garden tomb, with archeological evudences perfectly suiting the descriptions of the new testament of His burial, etc. Even world acclaimed atheist will not deny HIS existence. All that assert the existence of Nicomachus is the Suda. Even the Apostles if Jesus have several sources from both religious and secular ancient writers. Do your history well. With 'Jesus' - nothing outside the new testament confirms his existence. And the new testament was written anonymously. This means the invention of 'Jesus' is shrouded in secrecy. One suspects only a few top guys, like the Pope, and some other silent big guys in the Vatican, know the real truth about this 'Jesus' issue. Really? Nothing outside the new testament? That's blattent falsehood. Are the numerous writings of Tacitus, Josephus, Africanus and the likes (which give perspicacious innuendoes of the existence of one Jesus, Yeshua, Yeshu or Chrustus) new testament? Are the writings on the history of the Jews which refers to the existence of Christ new testament? Are several other "gospels" outside the new restament that innuendoes the life of Jesus new testament? You mean the gospels written anonymously? What a point. Do your research well; the gospel of Luke was written by one man named Luke, a converted gentile, who is also a physician. He became one of Paul's aides later on. His book was addresses to one Theophilus as the results of his research into the life of Jesus. The apostle John wrote John. Research for yourself. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Anas09: 11:41am On Jun 28, 2016 |
otemanuduno:Am not the Loony one, you are. Talking crazy. Oh shit am talking to a loony |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by otemanuduno: 12:07pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
Anas09: Just answer me, do you skip your meds? |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by ValentineMary(m): 2:03pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
Richirich713:Nazareth is not mentioned even once in the entire Old Testament . The Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area – records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list. • The Talmud, although it names 63 Galilean towns, knows nothing of Nazareth, nor does early rabbinic literature. • St Paul knows nothing of 'Nazareth'. Rabbi Solly's epistles (real and fake) mention Jesus 221 times, Nazareth not at all. • No ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth. It is first noted at the beginning of the 4th century. None of this would matter of course if, rather like at the nearby 'pagan' city of Sepphoris, we could stroll through the ruins of 1st century bath houses, villas, theatres etc. Yet no such ruins exist. the whole 'rejection in his homeland' story requires at a minimum a synagogue in which the godman can 'blaspheme.' Where was the synagogue in this tiny bucolic hamlet? Why was it not obvious to the first pilgrims like Helena – it would, after all, have been far more pertinent to her hero than a well? In reality, such a small, rustic community could never have afforded its own holy scrolls, let alone a dedicated building to house them. As peasant farmers almost certainly they would have been illiterate to a man. If JC had grown up and spent thirty years of his life in a village with as few as 25 families – an inbred clan of less than 300 people – the 'multitude' that were supposedly shocked by his blasphemy and would have thrown him from a cliff, would not have been hostile strangers but, to a man, would have been relatives and friends that he had grown up with, including his own brothers. Presumably, they had heard his pious utterances for years. Moreover, if the chosen virgin really had had an annunciation of messiah-birthing from an angel the whole clan would have known about it inside ten minutes. Just to remind them, surely they should also have known of the 'Jerusalem incident' (Luke 2.42-49) when supposedly the 12-year-old proclaimed his messiahship? But why is the bible the only book that talks on Nazareth ? because I know the romans were good in keeping record |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by ValentineMary(m): 2:17pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
Richirich713:[i] This is a link to a document written around 93 AD about Jesus. There was nomention of Nazareth https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Richirich713: 2:52pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
ValentineMary: U know u can just be honest and say u were mistaken instead all of this. This is what u originally said : ValentineMary: Then u said this : ValentineMary: So again where did wikipedia say that? That Nazareth was founded around 300 AD. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Richirich713: 3:02pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
ValentineMary: The first words on that link u just gave me : "The extant manuscripts of the writings of the 1st-century Romano-Jewish historian Flavius Josephus include references to Jesus and the origins of Christianity.[1][2] Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, written around 93–94 AD (nearly 25 years after the [size=16pt]first known Gospel, Mark, dated around 70 AD)[/size] So when dating methods is applied to Josephus documents it's accurate but when the same dating methods is applied to gospel manuscripts, it's not accurate. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by ValentineMary(m): 3:05pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
Richirich713:AsI said earlier, did u actually ready the link? It states that the only non biblical ref to Nazareth was around 300AD. And I doubt the stories of early.xtians a lot because of pious fraud. I ask again why did no other material make mention of Nazareth? if u say it was a small town, there is also a smaller town in Judea at that time that was mentioned. Moreover I shared u a link to Josepath statement of Jesis written 92-93 AD. And there was no mention of Nazareth. And only 1 book talks on Nazareth before 300AD and u are willing to silence the world and listen to one book? |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Richirich713: 3:21pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
ValentineMary: U said it was founded in 300 AD, not the earliest none christian reference to it came around that time. Also I showed u that that article on wikipedia supports it existence during Jesus time, I even gave u a link show the new testament papyrus that are dated b4 300 AD. U move away from that article cuz u notice it doesn't support ur claims. Also I've even show u that the "none christian reference " supports Nazareth existence B4 300AD, long before : Wikipedia - "A Hebrew inscription found in Caesarea dating to the late 3rd or early 4th century mentions Nazareth as the home of the priestly Hapizzez family after the Bar Kokhba revolt (132–135 AD)." ValentineMary: That same link tells me Mark gospel was written 70 AD, u just picking an choosing here. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by ValentineMary(m): 3:32pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
Richirich713:The gospel is very controversial because when actually analyed, we would see that the writters were just attributed those books. That's why u see "According to Mark" and not "written by mark" maybe this link would give more insight on the church fraud https://thechurchoftruth.org/synoptic-gospels-not-writen-by-matt-mark-luke-or-john/ |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Richirich713: 3:49pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
Will reply wen I get home, I won't be shock if that link u gave me disagrees with u on the dates |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by realmindz: 4:04pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
Anas09:he made super sense... Once upon a time, a man came up and said the earth was round. Wow! he was thought to ve lost his senses completely when the whole world believed for sure that the earth was flat.... The people cud no longer take his madness and anti - religious beliefs until he was executed |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Richirich713: 4:52pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
ValentineMary: Although u again moving the goal post, I'll read ur link. And here's what I found : "Even though the Gospels go under the names of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they were, in fact, written anonymously. These names first appeared in the second century and were assigned to the anonymous writings to give the writings apostolic authority. The Gospel of Mark was written before any of the other canonical gospels and was written after the fall of the second temple which occurred in 70 CE." Again the link says the gospels were written b4 300 AD |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Anas09: 5:26pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
realmindz:So, you and your friend should go on worshipping your Aliens abeg, make I hear something. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Richirich713: 6:05pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
"The gospels were forged hundreds of years after the events they narrate." - The Christ Conspiracy New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman (bible critic) replys: "In fact the gospels were written at the end of the first century, about thirty-five to sixty-five years after Jesus death, and we have physical proof: one fragment of a Gospel manuscript dates to the early second century. How could it have been forged centuries after that?" |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by realmindz: 6:37pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
Anas09:do u know who u worship? Everything u believe about ur religion is a result of your environment and beliefs indoctrinated, then those thoughts, ideas and beliefs begin to manifest as images in your head and dreams. wen u pray u visualise white bearded Jew in white garments looking compassionately at u...That's a way to keep u deluded and enslaved till death by the white man. if I tell u to visualise a black man as your messiah, wud u? u see my little chick, u are finished technically.. I knw I make no sense to u, bt I dnt expect u to comprehend dis, coming out of the delusion of religion is the most difficult task ever. 2 Likes |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Anas09: 10:45pm On Jun 28, 2016 |
realmindz:Sorry I didn't read what you typed. |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by Blackfire(m): 3:04am On Jun 29, 2016 |
Anas09: @realmindz what do u mean by little chick? *looking for Cane* |
Re: Have You Ever Researched 'Jesus' To Know If He Truly Existed? by realmindz: 7:37pm On Jun 29, 2016 |
Anas09:Oh little chick, I sed u have beautiful legs and a sexy shape |
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