Olabestonic001:


let's see it this way: in a divorce, there's always a bad-blood. Go and ask Croatia and Serbia. If Ndigbo succeed in causing a divorce of Nigeria, they'll be worst off in the region. They'll have gotten a country out of hate and hate would never depart their land. After Brexit, UK will never be the same again. Immediately the queen pass away, UK will loose its influence permanently and would become like the once great country Portugal.
In the advent of a breakage of Nigeria, Igbo will loose her free movement in Nigeria. For now, you won't understand that. But, Imagine loosing a market of over 110million people out of bigotry. Don't think Nigeria will have a good relationship with a rebellious broken state. It will be very bitter. Everything will always be done to undermine their state of utopia (by sheer number of the existing structure). I hate the structure we're practicing but hate will ensure it becomes messier than you can ever imagine.
And FYI, China will be glad to take the place of the bitter Biafrans in commerce.

modath:


I clapped slowly in my mind for you... big props..

Olabestonic001:


Igbos did not survived with £20 according to your insinuations. Igbo survived because Nigeria let them. Igbo has access to a market of over 120million people and they take advantage of that. If the govt of those over 120million people decides to control in-flows of people from SE, you'll understand better that Ndigbo need Nigeria even than Nigeria needs her. Today, a sense of utopia might be building due to some perceived successes built majorly on the platform of a large market force Ndigbo explore and exploit but immediately they seek for their "divorce" they'll loose the market, be repatriated home, apply as immigrant and all such stuffs. Soon, you guys will know life after divorce is more than freedom- it has its downside which interestingly is the "Stay Power" of Ndigbo in Nigeria; the big market.

Olabestonic001:


let's see it this way: in a divorce, there's always a bad-blood. Go and ask Croatia and Serbia. If Ndigbo succeed in causing a divorce of Nigeria, they'll be worst off in the region. They'll have gotten a country out of hate and hate would never depart their land. After Brexit, UK will never be the same again. Immediately the queen pass away, UK will loose its influence permanently and would become like the once great country Portugal.
In the advent of a breakage of Nigeria, Igbo will loose her free movement in Nigeria. For now, you won't understand that. But, Imagine loosing a market of over 110million people out of bigotry. Don't think Nigeria will have a good relationship with a rebellious broken state. It will be very bitter. Everything will always be done to undermine their state of utopia (by sheer number of the existing structure). I hate the structure we're practicing but hate will ensure it becomes messier than you can ever imagine.
And FYI, China will be glad to take the place of the bitter Biafrans in commerce.

OMAR12:
what is this one saying like Nigeria is the only country in Africa, have u forgotten that Igbo trade everywhere and there is ECOWAS free movement. the same way out suppose Libyan herdsmen libyanized their way into Nigeria, u think after the break igbos won't be allowed free movement into other part of the suppose then Nigeria. please answer me

OMAR12:
what is this one saying like Nigeria is the only country in Africa, have u forgotten that Igbo trade everywhere and there is ECOWAS free movement. the same way out suppose Libyan herdsmen libyanized their way into Nigeria, u think after the break igbos won't be allowed free movement into other part of the suppose then Nigeria. please answer me

Olabestonic001:


Igbos did not survived with £20 according to your insinuations. Igbo survived because Nigeria let them. Igbo has access to a market of over 120million people and they take advantage of that. If the govt of those over 120million people decides to control in-flows of people from SE, you'll understand better that Ndigbo need Nigeria even than Nigeria needs her. Today, a sense of utopia might be building due to some perceived successes built majorly on the platform of a large market force Ndigbo explore and exploit but immediately they seek for their "divorce" they'll loose the market, be repatriated home, apply as immigrant and all such stuffs. Soon, you guys will know life after divorce is more than freedom- it has its downside which interestingly is the "Stay Power" of Ndigbo in Nigeria; the big market.

kernel501:


We (South East and South South). Nigerian tribes don't love each other.

Olabestonic001:


You don't understand for now but you'll get it in the event of a breakup. You'll never understand implications till you get one. If Biafra comes during PMB's regime, the consequences will be colossal for Igbos.
This is because we'll know that hatred of one Daura man caused the collapse of Nigeria and Igbos will be haunted by such for decades on no end. We might make all the mouths now but just wait and see.
Never underestimate the prowess of a man that is calculative.

danidee10:


We are not part of you guys....stop merging yourself with SS.

malton:

Ese, sister mo. This means twice as much coming from an erudite person like you personally.

OMAR12:
you are indirectly saying that Biafra won't be a success and the Igbos will begin to blame itself for causing the break up of Nigeria due to their hate for buhari. Mr man the igbos do not hate anyone hating people is bad for business, however the Igbo are a group of people that doesn't like to be governor by annoy asides them self or if they are to let anyone governor them, it will be in a case were by power will quickly return to them. they are too big to be undermine just as someone said the other day that the Igbo are immature to rule, I say u should let them go. if they survive or not it up to them

modath:


You dey always make sense!!

malton post=471S9695:


Hahaha. That just upped my shyness.

We dey try helep oA fFSur brothers so that dem no go leap in the dark.

Mindfulness:

It could also be based on the current developments that have been observable since the announcement that Britain will exit the EU.

The pound’s dramatic decline is the biggest impact of Brexit so far

While financial markets overall remained fairly calm Monday after last week's plunge, the sharp decline of the British pound
deepened, in what is the biggest and most immediate impact of Britain's vote to leave the European Union.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/27/the-pounds-dramatic-decline-is-the-biggest-impact-of-brexit-so-far/

Yo cannot predict the future but from the perspective of almost 50% of the British electorate, it is a debacle and its effects go beyond economic forecasting - which, by the way, tend to be bleak

I do not subscribe to the pessimist view as I know that Britain's economy is strong enough to be nagivated through the stormy waters of the transition toward a model, which will resemble the one that Switzerland has adopted

There are, as well, economist analysts who would disagree and we must also differentiate between short term, medium term and long term effects with the short term outcomes already being observable

If you think that direct democracy is true democracy and representative democracy isn't, then so be it. I will refer to this discussion later

Now let us have a closer look at the majority and majorities here.
The leave was won by 52% to 48% and so the government respects the viewpoint of about 50% of the population but doesn't respect the viewpoint of the other half ot the population?

Let us not mention the Scottish majority who wanted to remain in the EU and the majority of young people who chose to live in a UNITED EUROPE.
This example perfectly reveals why direct democracies are a rare occurance in the developed world and representative democracies preferred

What you fail to consider is that minorities are also a part (sometimes a HUGE part) of the governed and that history has brutally shown what devastating effects the tyranny of the majority can lead to

Modern-day democracies are more often than not representative democracies. Have I already mentioned it?

You could have made your point stronger without the Brexit example which does not support your viewpoint logically and convincingly.

That won't be enough.
Now this is a point that deserves attention and begs the question whether referendums are an effective and legitimate tool to prevent civil wars

It's because you don't see the power in diversity and unity and because you neglect the realities and challenges of a globalized world

Why do you focus exclusively on the differences when the similarities are so glaring?

Would a re-modelling of the political system not be a more effective solution in the short and long run?

The white man was ignorant, this we know. How could he not been without google?

On a more serious note, humans around the world used to organize themselves in smaller units which we call tribes. From there on, they started to build nations and even empires. Today, developed nations (despite the Brexit) tend to organize themselves in COMPLEX units that extend national borders and successfully so.

What we need is progress and not stagnation or even regress into tribalistic (and nationalistic) thinking and preceveing

You lump together too many people and call them pvssies

I expect more than allegations such as fear of the unknown.

It is myopic to ignore the interests of the anti-Biafrans and discount them as fear of the unknown

Not all revolutionary jumps have proven to be profitable

It goes without saying.
To make matters round, let us return to Britain - and this is what I wanted to discuss in the first place - Scotland held a referndum just last year and as a result of the Brexit referendum demands a new one which shows that a referendum is not always a quick way to settle a matter once and for all.

modath:


Did you by any chance plan to write "anticipated"?

Someone with rationale & superior knowledge talk sontin, instead of you to just waka pass with your barely adequate, you had to show yourself!! What a pity..


On Topic.....

More than 50% of the "Leavers" have been honest enough to own up to the fact that they didn't know their votes would count & they also didn't know the real story about the economics & politics..

Scare mongers did a number on them, then their innate bigotry, ignorance & misplaced /misdirected anger just capped it & sealed their fates..

I've been laughing like no man's business following news about #Bregret and the tweets are so funny however #Post RefRacism leaves a lot to be desired....

Like i will always say, i prefer a restructured Nigeria to tiny inconsiquential blobs on the map, however if go no go, Singapore, Luxemborg , Leitchensten etc may be small but they aren't doing too badly. Shebi Iceland with 300k population dumped the English ballers with their basket mouth press out of Euro 2016...

Small country in peace & prosperity beats a contraption with too much strife & wahala ... less "in house" saboteurs & destructive elements...

99xtr69r:


There's no need dwelling on inanities and trying in vain to mask Yoruba bile-filled hatred, bitterness and utter disgust for Igbos desiring to have a separate existence.

For a long while now you lots have threatened war against Igbos. You promised yourselves to complete the annihilation of Igbos. You vowed to confiscate Igbo properties. You keep drumming, Igboland is landlocked, sea-locked, air-locked, sunlight-locked, gravity-locked and all what not just to attempt quench the raging IPOB tsunamic movement. Yorubas have systematically burnt Igbo shops and business premises. Yorubas have used every foul means to defraud Igbos of their hard earned monies. And you still have the guts to leave the myriads of problems bedevilling Yoruba tribe to grandstand in the public with unfounded theories against the Igbo Nation.

You and your Yoruba folks have used all tricks at your disposal to attempt to quench the call for self-determination and it's not working. Yet Igbos remain undaunted and are still pressing forward against all the odds to your consternation.

FYI, IGBOS DON'T NEED YORUBAS AND THEIR COTRAVELLERS TO SURVIVE.

Many Igbos don't want to share a country with you anymore and yet you keep creating unnecessary attentions for yourselves on the internet with baseless theories of absurdity to blackmail the Igbo Nation to pitch tent with you. Your chicanery is sickening already.

It will be honourable for Yorubas to channel their energies towards consolidating OduaArewanistan republic now before it's too late.

"For Lagos State, more than 70% of the manufacturing concerns and major industries in the State are owned by the Igbos. If the Igbos were to stop paying tax in Lagos State, the IGR of Lagos State will reduce by over 60%. In contrast, Sir, go to the South East and look at the manufacturing concerns in Onitsha, Aba and Nnewi. Please don't forget those were areas ravaged by civil war a mere forty something years ago. The Igbos have certainly made tremendous progress but the Yoruba nation has regressed. I wish to state that this letter is not meant to whip up primordial considerations or ethnic sentiments but just to put things in proper perspective."
- Maj. Gen Adebayo Adeyinka (rtd.)
https://www.nairaland.com/3173893/open-letter-asiwaju-bola-ahmed-tinubu

darkenedrebel:


The pound's decline was well-anticipated. Brits had already started changing their pounds to Euros days before the referendum, so it's not really a bolt out of the blue.

There is no gain without pain - just like in child-bearing: the woman has to go into labour first and suffer but all of that is drowned and submerged when the cries of the new-born is heard.

This is just a short-term detour I believe, and anything can still happen between now and August in the stock market. It's not set-in-stone math where one plus one would always equal two one million years from now. We all knew there would be minor drawbacks so stop making a song and dance about the pound's decline like a roving explorer that stumbled upon an Aladdin's cave in the middle of the Sahara. It was anticipated!

And from the perspective of the other half of the electorates it was a decision shored up by a syllogistic motive.

They thought the swingeing deluge of immigrants into the country was bogging down the economy and that it was fast becoming a Egypt-Israel situation where the foreigners had more influence than the natives. They thought to leave the EU would curtail that, to ensure the foreigners(from other European nations especially) do not put the natives out of their jobs, to control population etc.

The afore and many other reasons that I don't have time to trot out is why they thought it necessary to split from the EU. And I'm sure we would begin to see a turn of fortunes much later. Be patient.

Since you do not subscribe to the pessimist view and you know Britain's economy is strong enough to make it through hell and high water then why would you still consider it a debacle? I'm sure they also knew the country was tough enough to plow through formidable odds or they wouldn't have opted to vote out in the first place.

Let's shunt aside the perspective of the 50% electorates that think it's a shot in the foot and draw the bead on 'you'? Why does Mindfulness think it's a debacle especially when her sole raison d'être for making such claims is predicated so far on the pound decline alone(a short-term side effect)

Then why don't we bide our time for the long-term side-effects to make it to the surface first before frog-jumping into conclusions?

Britain has crossed the Rubicon and whether or not 50% of the population think it was an inane move or not, the decision has been made already. What we are doing here is closing the barn door after the horse has escaped.

They are both democracies - just in different forms. And when did I say anything about direct or indirect democracy? You're prevaricating.

I prefaced my first post on this thread with a statement that made it clear that I'm not here to descant Brexit, just what I could glean from it. The analogy might have been vague but I think the point I was trying to make was clear.

Bla Bla Bla. I'm bored.

It's called 'compact majority". And I get your point.

Yes you did, and it wasn't germane to the point I was trying to make.



It was a 'vague' analogy.

And branding Nnamdi Kalu a domestic terrorist is the legitimate tool?

Or keeping mom over the violence visited on the Igbos in the North is the legitimate tool?(let's not even talk about those doled out in the past during the civil war)

And yes, referendums are legitimate and would be effective to an extent because then we would know the thoughts of the people on major issues and also the next step to take.

Power in diversity in a nation that has remained on the same spot 50 years after independence? When would this 'power in diversity" be seen?

Perhaps when the bags of rice and monetary donations to the IDPs have been tampered with and completely siphoned by some heartless persons?

Or maybe we would see this power in diversity after poverty and hunger has wiped out half of the nation's population?

Or maybe after when Boko-Haram has. . . .oh forget it!

We've been screaming power in diversity longer than Mozart handled the Harpsichord in his lifetime and it's more or less a cry in the wilderness. Isn't it obvious that we are living in a fool's paradise?

Because I'm seeing things through the lens of a realist. You on the other hand is a lotus-eater with airy-fairy and quixotic beliefs that '50 years of post-independence" have proven to be impracticable and impossible.

And what similarities are glaring? Because the only similarity I can see is the dark color of our skin.

A re-modelling would be ineffective if it is the same crop of politicians that are still at the helms of power.

Progress cannot be attained when the parts making up the whole are too incongruous and dissimilar. Look at what happens when a cart loses a wheel - the cart loses balance. That's what's happening in this country: the cart, which is Nigeria, is made of various wheels that are at daggers drawn, and only two things would happen - either the cart remains stagnant or it collapses - the two are happening in tandem currently.

Unshaved pûssies I meant to say.

I stated other reasons.


It is also myopic to not know that the interests of anti-Biafrans do not carry weight especially since they have not been able to convince the separatists beyond reasonable doubt that cohesiveness is still necessary.

Shouldn't the anti-Biafrans be focused on doing that rather than trying to silence the voices of those who are thoroughly fed up with the nation, worse is they try to silence their voices via unconstitutional mediums.

It is even against the rules of nairaland to propagate Biafra. Whatever happened to freedom of speech.
What a travesty of democracy!

Not all non-revolutionary jumps have proven to be profitable as well.

Nigerians have been known to smile in Pavlovian response to suffering: something Fela Kuti termed as 'suffering and smiling'. We are the only set of humans that would be aware that only a revolution can turn the tide in this country but would be too coward to bell the cat and would rather prefer to stoically remain in the mare's nest where suffering and anguish abound.
Nonsense!

Referendum is not always a quick way but it's the first step and necessary especially when the leaders meant to be stirring the affairs of the nation appear to be at their wits end.

Give the people a chance to air their opinions!

Mindfulness:

You missed the point. You said that nobody can foresee the effects that Brexit would have and yet you have admitted that the pound's decline was anticipated.

You have missed the point again. You argue that a government has to follow the will of the governed and I have told you that the 52% of pro leave are as much the governed as the 48% of the pro remain side.

To say that I am surprised that someone like you would write what you have written above is an understatement. It is exactly this kind of thinking that gives rise to extreme right-wing parties all over Europe and such views are based on the failure to understand economic and political complexities.

First of all, I am perfectly aware of the fact that Britain has accepted millions of immigrants in the decade that the Labour Party was in rule and as a European citizen I perfectly understand how many people feel about such changes but what you have not considered (possibly because you don't know) is that Britain has already opted out of the Schengen Agreement in 2004 and thus has taken control of their borders again.

Secondly, such sentiments - surprisingly - are ALL OVER Europe shared by people from areas where migration has not even been felt, areas with the smallest numbers of immigrants. People from places like London voted to remain in the EU.

Thirdly, the British economy - the second largest in Europe - has profited from migration immensely. Migration has created more employment, not less. Britain joined the EU in the 70s. The unemployment rate was at its peak in the early 80s with over 14%. From then on the unemployment rate has been falling constantly and going up again since 2007 as a result - not of migration - but the financial crisis and it has been Britain with London as one of the world's biggest financial centres that has been blocking stricter regulations on the financial market. Oh, the irony.

Well, famous UK pro leave campaigners have vehemently denied the accusation that they wanted to leave the EU for this reason. I have been following the debate with strong interest. I am aware of the fact that xenophobia and ignorance have been the underlying motives and the fuel behind extremist parties such as UKIP but many pro leave representatives have denied that this was the driving force behind their motivation to leave the EU.

And if you don't have the time to trot out the reasons in detail, don't start. If people like you don't have the time to begin and end such discussions based on profound knowledge rather than beer parlour sentiments, then who has?

Let me tell you why:

I love the European Union and I am very comitted to its cause:

1. It has ensured peace for decades.
2. It has made Europe prosperous. Europe has never been more prosperous.
3. It has granted people the freedom to move freely, entrepreneurs, workers, students and tourists.
4. I don't want to experience a nationalistic Europe that has led this continent into two bloody world wars.
5. I feel that Britain is important for the EU and the EU for Britain. Unity makes each nation stronger and not weaker and it helps each nation to tackle the challenges of a gloablized world.
6. Young people - to whom the future belongs - want to remain in the EU.
7. European countries are - by comparison - poorly populated. There is no way they can compete against rising nations alone in the future.
8. A qualified majority of the British parliament (more than 70%) would vote pro remain. Unfortunately, populist and polemic parties have convinced half of the population that all of Britain's problems stem from the decsions made in Brussels and Strasbourg and that is not true and they have played on people's fears of migration.

As above.

As above.

And I respect it but I am sad about it too. However, Britain will de facto remain part of the EU and I won't be surprised if they return in the years to come.


No, you haven't but your line of argument was based on this distinction and the fact that you have not consciously made this distinction reveals a deficit.


It was faulty, very faulty and I have pointed out why.


I am not here to entertain you. You act with such authority when in fact you have not even taken your time to understand it.

Thank you.
It is an inappropriate analogy and if I wanted to argue anti-Biafra, it would be very easy for me based on your contributions here.

A person can be a terrorist for one group of people and a freedom fighter for another. The sooner the political elites understand it, the faster we will be able to reduce global terrorism. I feel that we have some common ground here.

As above.

Governments are supposed to represent EVERYBODY, even minorities and this is why representative democracies are the way.
The

The problems the nation faces are not the result of its geographic borders but the mentality of her people, the political elites in the first place and her citizens as well.

Do you really believe that a partition would lead to more prosperity?

Is diversity the reason why politicians have mismanaged the country's resources and failed to use them for the common good?

Is this an argument?
You are this and I am this.

All tribes share similar cultural values and a history.
Would the same politicians make a better job if the country was divided?

Frankly speaking, I do not feel qualified enough to argue for or against Biafra but I am convinced that the way forward for the world as a whole is toward unity and not partition.



It is not their job to convince them to adhere to their own interests but it is legitimate to be directed by them.

I am the last person who wants to silence anyone. I am pro dialogue and I want to see people like you to take your time to do a thorough analysis and I want to see people like you have factual and objective discussions. Whenever I watch Nigerian politicians debating on TV, I feel ashamed. And I strongly believe that people like you can make a change by enlightening people. It takes time, energy and patience but it is worth it.

True!

True. They are counter-productive.

I will be the first to speak up for Biafra if you convince me that partition will improve the lives of everyone but for now I don't see how it will.

I have explained why I am in support of representative democracies and not a fan of direct democracy and the Brexit is another example that has proven to me why it is a better choice.

The referendum in Britain has shown how quickly almost 50% of the entire population have been disregarded.

There are plenty of ways to air one's opinions aside from referendums. This is the beauty of representative democracies, which are the prevailing model of a democracy. Your school books have taught you that the function of a democracy is to give power to the people but it is also a means to control anger that is not a good adviser.

darkenedrebel:


You know one of those days when you just feel too lazy and would rather go shag some random hõrny lady than typing some 500+ words on Nairaland. This is one of those days.

You win!. . . .unless you're willing to give me a 3-hour massage to expel the tiredness that parlayed from the weekend's craze. I wouldn't mind at all.