KARNA (EX-TANK) it would have been a highly potent upgrade of the T72 but the russians blocked it

for CT ops 5.56mm rifles r not preferred

the unique head gear is known as PATKA which is favored over helmets by the CT troops since it can stop 7.62mm bullets unlike the combat helmets which r rated to stop 9mm bullets only .

helmets r used for conventional and SP ops where tactical attachments r required.

4th pic the soldier is a ghatak (lethal/shock/killer) trooper , Indian equivalent of storm troopers , they r a special operations capable infantry platoon. There is one such platoon in every infantry battalion in the Indian Army.They act as shock troops and spearhead assaults ahead of the battalion. they r not to be confused with special forces , they r part of regular infantry .

They can be tasked by the battalion or brigade commander to carry out tasks such as special reconnaissance, raids on enemy artillery positions, airfields, supply dumps and tactical headquarters. They are also capable of directing artillery and air attacks on targets deep within enemy lines.

A Ghatak Platoon is usually 20-men strong, consisting of a commanding Captain, 2 non-commissioned officers and some special teams like marksman and spotter pairs, light machine gunners, medic and radio operator. The remaining soldiers act as assault troopers.

NSG

republic day rehearsal parade

continue------

nemesis2u:
republic day rehearsal parade

Are the camels utilised in specialist units?

Khamal battalion.

MikeCZA:
Are the camels are utilised in specialist units?

Khamal battalion.

they were used for border patrolling in the Thar desert by BSF (para-military force) and were very useful too , u wont survive the kick of a camel
it is the only camel cavalry unit in the world, however 2-3 years back ATVs were introduced.

and when these in-service camels get retired the unit will be disbanded.




i want to share a story of a pack mule in service with the Indian army when got awarded a medal and a citation

pack mules r used to carry arms and supplies for the army in hilly and mountainous terrain were no vehicles go , there are generally 5-10 mules in a mule train with 3-4 porters to handle them , but they r well trained so dont give much trouble.
in the 70s or 80s a mule train carrying supplies to a forward post came under heavy artillery fire the guides and the army personnel ran for cover , later when things calmed down it was found that in the confusion a mule got lost . so the matter was given up

after 6 months one fine day the same mule was found nonchalantly eating fodder in the staging base camp , and lo behold ! on its back was enemies 2 MG 3 machine guns and 2-4 boxes of machine gun ammo.

it was realized the mule must had escaped from the enemy pack train at the first opportunity, (the enemy must have previously found him and used him along with their own mules for transporting equipment's ) and remembered the way back home. it was a tough journey back home among mine fields and enemy bullets.


the mule was given a medal and a citation and was retired from that day forth to live rest of his life in luxury untill his natural death.

nemesis2u:
KARNA (EX-TANK) it would have been a highly potent upgrade of the T72 but the russians blocked it

you could at least incorporate the technology with your arjun tank

giles14:
you could at least incorporate the technology with your arjun tank

KARNA has a ARJUN turret mated to the T72 carriage, technology in arjun (MK1 & MK2) is 1.5-2 generations ahead of T90 (indian version)

inside a russian ship S300F magazine

IN

IN replenishment ship

K-4 SLBM

BHUBANESWAR: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is readying for a fresh trial of its long range nuke-capable submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) K-4 from an underwater platform in the last week of this month


If things go as per the programme, defence sources said the indigenously built most powerful underwater missile having a strike range of around 3,500 km will be test fired from a submerged pontoon, which is almost identical to a submarine, on January 31.

Though the missile has been designed to be launched from a depth of 50 metres, this time the scientists are planning to fire it from the undersea platform nearly 20-30 metre deep in the Bay of Bengal.

A defence official said while the preparation for the test is going on in full swing, tracking equipment has been moved in ships to be placed at test location and point of impact.

Having a length of 12 metres and diameter of 1.3 metres, K-4 missile weighs around 17 tonne and is capable of carrying a warhead of around two tonne. Basically a ballistic missile, the K-4 combines the aspects of both cruise and ballistic missile, which use multiple-stage rockets to exit the atmosphere and re-enter in a parabolic trajectory.

A defence scientist said, this manoeuvrable missile having an innovative system of interlacing in three dimensions can also cruise at a hypersonic speed. “This exceptional feature of the weapon system makes it difficult to be tracked easily and destroyed by any anti-ballistic missile defence system. The missile has a high accuracy of near-zero circular error probable (CEP),” he said.

The country’s first indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant has already been inducted in the Indian Navy and this submarine will be equipped with the K-series missiles.

This time an advanced variant of the missile will be tested to validate new technologies incorporated in the system. The test would be for a higher range also,” the source added.
A successful trial of the missile would strengthen the country’s position in the exclusive club of six nations including Russia, USA, France, UK and China which have the capability of firing nuclear tipped missiles from air, land and undersea.

India has so far planned three missiles in the K-series. While the 700-km range K-15, renamed as B-05 (tested10 times) and 3,500 km range K-4 have been developed, the K-5 will have a striking capability of over 5,000 km. All the K-series missiles are faster, lighter and stealthier.The DRDO is also developing the air version of K-series missiles which can be fitted with fighter aircraft.

nemesis2u:
for CT ops 5.56mm rifles r not preferred

the unique head gear is known as PATKA which is favored over helmets by the CT troops since it can stop 7.62mm bullets unlike the combat helmets which r rated to stop 9mm bullets only .

helmets r used for conventional and SP ops where tactical attachments r required.

4th pic the soldier is a ghatak (lethal/shock/killer) trooper , Indian equivalent of storm troopers , they r a special operations capable infantry platoon. There is one such platoon in every infantry battalion in the Indian Army.They act as shock troops and spearhead assaults ahead of the battalion. they r not to be confused with special forces , they r part of regular infantry .

They can be tasked by the battalion or brigade commander to carry out tasks such as special reconnaissance, raids on enemy artillery positions, airfields, supply dumps and tactical headquarters. They are also capable of directing artillery and air attacks on targets deep within enemy lines.

A Ghatak Platoon is usually 20-men strong, consisting of a commanding Captain, 2 non-commissioned officers and some special teams like marksman and spotter pairs, light machine gunners, medic and radio operator. The remaining soldiers act as assault troopers.

How many mags are issued to an Indian soldier.

Henry240:


How many mags are issued to an Indian soldier.

for CT operations normally 3 mags but again depends on mission

for conventional warfare it depends on mission, not fixed

ss

nemesis2u:

for CT operations normally 3 mags but again depends on mission
for conventional warfare it depends on mission, not fixed

What's the average for conventional? Aren't 3 mags a little light?

nemesis2u:
ss

Would India be interested in the T-90M or is the force okay with the additional T-90MS (is it)

nemesis2u:


for CT operations normally 3 mags but again depends on mission

for conventional warfare it depends on mission, not fixed

The Indian Air Force is strong, no doubt, but why does it seem like a massive logistically mess, with different types of aircrafts here and there?


What is the AMCA programme, where does it begin to fit in, in the entire Indian Force structure. Why can't the Indian government buy one fighter aircraft and leave it at that?

Why do you need, 8 different types of fighters in the Indian Air Force and Navy combined.

- Rafale, SU-30mki, Tejas, AMCA, MIG-29, MIG-29k, Jaguar, MIG-27 (yes, the Rafale should eventually replace these but they are still in service), BAE Hawk( Trainer, yes, but with potent attack capabilities), Mirage 2000-9.


I'm sure there are fighters i can't remember.

nemesis2u:
ss

We are well aware the Tejas should replace the MIG-21, but doesn't the AMCA signal the death of the Tejas?

With the AMCA you might get an F-16 E/F, Gripen E/F, Advanced Super-Hornet or MIG-35. So, where then does the Tejas fit in the overall force structure?

Henry240:


We are well aware the Tejas should replace the MIG-21, but doesn't the AMCA signal the death of the Tejas?

With the AMCA you might get and F-16 E/F, Gripen E/F, Advanced Super-Hornet or MIG-35. So, where then does the Tejas fit in the overall force structure?

Sovereign capability over actual operational requirements.

MikeCZA:
Sovereign capability over actual operational requirements.

Then, they should instead have gone for a joint development of the Gripen E/F, instead of wasting money on Tejas. Afterall, most of the parts for the Tejas are sourced from abroad anyway.

It isn't sovereign is most of the critical parts are sourced from abroad.

Henry240:


What's the average for conventional? Aren't 3 mags a little light?

this is were most of us commit the biggest blunder ,
we generalize too much ,
what is feasible in the defense forces of western countries might not be feasible in the east block countries ,
what is feasible in the defense forces of Nigeria will not be feasible in the defense forces of china, what is feasible in the defense forces of India will not be feasible in the defense forces of Russia etc etc.

in Indian army great importance is placed in the accuracy of fire power , the regular infantry troops r taught from their initial training to make every shot count , to use the iron sights for maximum efficiency , one shot one kill. ammo costs money and resources and places burden on logistics.

this is the very reason why the INSAS rifle came with only single shot and burst fire modes, not auto mode. however for CT operations , u need automatic rifles of higher caliber 7.62 x 39 or 7.62 x 51 , since 5.56 is not capable of killing terrorists with one shot since they wear American Armour and r issued with NVGs and automatic rifles with grenade launchers.

one important reason is to conserve ammo and to make sure that he soldiers don't run out of it in the middle of the battle , most of India's conflict zones r in desolate , close to enemies firezones and inaccessible regions where resupply is very difficult, risky and time consuming.

it might surprise u to know that the Indian army machine gunners r generally trained to provide sniper fire not suppresive fire as done in other countries military. for this very same reason u will see that Indian machine guns come with only 20/30 rounds mags not the higher capacity mags.

for conventional war 5.56 bullets r ok,
since the aim is to increase the logistic burden on the enemy. a 5.56 will injure the enemy troops more often , and this will require 4 other enemy troops per injured enemy soldier to carry him out of the battle . this also increases the the cost of war on the enemies side and reduces their combat effectiveness plus the psychological effect of seeing scores of injured troops will demoralize the enemy in a big way.

coming to point....
3 mags per soldier for CT (counter terrorism) operations is more than enough , to neutralize 2 terrorists in an urban area approx 200 soldiers r required (which is a huge fire power in itself even with 3 mags )
to set up cordon....
block all exit points.....
to conduct house to house search......
escort civilians out.....
pin down the isolated terrorists.....
lay down fire to eliminate the terrorists.....

ultimately in the end only 5 to 8 soldiers actually end up using their fire arms.
also since last few years soldiers involved in CT (counter terrorism) operations r issued DMR rifles , sniper rifles , grenade launchers, recoilless launchers and thermobaric rocket launchers , tactical UAVs which is a lot of firepower and easily curtails the issue of lower no of mags.

one well aimed thermobaric rocket fired at holed up terrorists inside urban areas will fry them up and worst case scenario disorient them , u dont even need to fire a single bullet in the best case scenario . there r lots of lots of online pics where terrorists from across border have been eliminated with only thermobaric rounds . nowadays even incendiary grenade rounds r been issued for CT operations because of their effectiveness.

again as i said it depends on the mission , if the soldiers r required to ingress deep inside enemy territories to eliminate terrorist training camps they will be issued with higher no of mags as required.

for conventional warfare the amount of mags issued is debatable, lot of people come up with lot of numbers , i have general idea but unfortunately i will not reveal it , because this info is kind of sensitive . and their is no fixed amount , it depends on the profile of the mission and whether resupply options r available / sustainable or not in a given frame of time

USAF MQ-9 Reaper

x

@mydn44

plz unblock nemesis2u and the relevant post which got hit by the antispam bot
it took me half an hour to write it

Henry240:


Then, they should instead have gone for a joint development of the Gripen E/F, instead of wasting money on Tejas. Afterall, most of the parts for the Tejas are sourced from abroad anyway.

It isn't sovereign is most of the critical parts are sourced from abroad.

really u guys never get to see the big picture do u ?

firsts lets talk about GRIPEN E ,
do u know the percentage of foreign components (non-swedish) in gripen ?
it is way higher than LCA TEJAS !!!!
what about F50 ?
what about JF17 ?
what about F-2 ?
so why single out LCA ?

LCA has a indigenous engine KAVERI under development , it meet with some troubles , but now has been kick started again with the help of the french. in the near future LCA will come with the indigenous KAVERI engine .

do the swedes has such a indigenous engine program to replace their american engine in GRIPEN ?

LCAs FBW system is way better than GRIPEN E (dont know about the GRIPEN F) , hell it is way better than F16 as testified by lockheed martins test enginners who tested and validated it initially. GRIPEN E FBW is dogged with problems as stated by the test pilots themselves, these have been rectified though successive software upgrades but still some restrictions remain.

how do i know this ?
becz i have seen the relevant technical documents submitted during MMRCA competition and the subsequent flight testing technical evaluation data .

wasting money on LCA ?
come on ur reading into to much bullshit biased Indian and foreign media reports.

lets state the advantages of LCA program which u guys dont want to see

1. LCA helped to develop the Indian aerospace eco-system from design to manufacturing

2. LCA helped to develop all the necessary R & D and relevant testing centers necessary for designing , prototyping, testing and productionizing a combat aircraft which less than 7-8 countries can boast of.

3. LCA helped to kick start the private Indian industries aerospace participation. now using that same technological experience Indian companies are able to become part of the global supply chain of Boeing, Airbus etc etc

4. LCA has many unique in-house developed technologies and patents , some of which have been sold to other foreign aerospace companies like AIRBUS etc and also commercialized via their civilian spin offs (space , medical , forging , electronics etc ).
eg. AIRBUS bought the autolay integrated automated software for designing 3-d laminated composite elements developed for LCA program for use in its A380 passenger jet.

so next time anybody flies in a AIRBUS A380 JUMBOJET , it will be good to realize that A380s composite structure has LCA tech in it.


5. LCA has given the Indian government the necessary leverage to get the maximum out of any combat aircraft deal, look at the rafale deal of 36 aircrafts , the french were forced to negotiate on Indian terms, among others which included cooperation in several strategic systems which no western country will share with u other wise. indian rafales r same as french rafales optimized for nuclear delivery role with some Indian equipment's. try buying a nuclear delivery optimized aircraft from other countries and then lets talk !.

now for the LWF program , we can squeeze the americans and swedes to the maximum because , if they don't agree to our terms then they can take a hike , since we always have the LCA MK1 (40 ordered) , LCA MK1A (187 ordered) , LCAMK2 ( tender for toolings released ) program.

@MikeCZA this gives us OPERATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY at the negotiation table with no threads attached.

there was never any issue of OPERATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY of aircraft's with India because America was never interested in selling their aircraft's to India nor was India interested in buying one, the soviets aircraft's and the french / British aircraft's which came in was always without any strings attached.

6. LCA has helped to make the IAF and the relevant human resource personnel better aware of the intricacies involved in judging/evaluating a combat fighter , like the operational flight envelope , the EM susceptibility of a combat aircraft , the pilot - aircraft interfacing , networking capabilities , maintainability , electronic and comms capabilities etc

this also helps Indians to successfully undertake local upgrade programs much like the Israelis. look at the SU 30MKI program and its spin offs which the Russians emulated in the other models of their SU 30 family. do u know hundreds of scientists from LCA program were in russia working on the SU 30MKI program. this helped the Indians both way .

this again helps to negotiate with foreign aircraft manufacturers looking to co develop combat aircraft's both from technological and capability wise, like the FGFA (PAKFA) , if u dont have knowledge and R & D experience in data fusion, stealth , engines etc will u be in position to judge the capabilities of the same and negotiate for the same . otherwise more than often u will end up with the MONKEY VERSION of the combat aircraft.

the point i want to make is "a experienced doctor is a best judge of a disease isnt it"

so a country which has experience with their own indigenous aircraft's will be always in a better position to trial and evaluate another foreign aircraft without falling prey to the bullshit propaganda and the inherent obfuscation of the weakness of the aircraft by the foreign aircraft manufacturer looking to sell their products.

again LCA has many enemies
a. foreign competitors who dont want it to succeed
b. political disdain/unwillingness to take risks which is necessary in a project of this scale
c. Indian politicians and Indian / foreign media funded by foreign competitor / enemy
d. stupid and lazy Indian bureaucracy
e. corruption / black money via imported arms deals suits political parties to fund themselves.
f . geo political stratagems to limit India's sphere of influence by defense deals
etc

i am getting tired here......

so lets end by the short comings of LCA

LCA program was not funded properly and it took time to develop the various technologies in house , so it came in late not 30 years late which is a lie but 15 years late which is not a problem considering everything was built from scratch and at the first attempt.

the scientists overestimated their capabilities on certain technologies and then when they failed to develop, it was too late with valuable time lost.

the IAF changed the air-staff requirements midway between the LCA program which again led to changes in LCA design which again cost time.

all this lead to LCA being short in some of the desired parameters but these r being addressed in the newer versions like LCAMK1A and LCAMK2 same like gripen a/bc/d/e/f blocks and the f16 blocks. these aircrafts also had short comings which were improved in the newer version , so why single out LCA

LCA MK1 NAVY was always a technology demonstrator to help in the design process and smoother induction of LCAMK2 NAVY considering the complex nature of carrier borne fighter aircraft's . how many countries have that capability ?

anyways lets see how the lca mk1 (operational) , lca mk1a ( in the works) and lcamk2 ( in the works) fares .

any way u look way india gained by the LCA program and that experience will be used on AMCA , FGFA , LSA (speculative) programs in the future.

Hello Mynd44

Please can you unban Nemesis2u. He has been hit by the Anti-Spambot. Also un block his post in this thread.

Thank you.

Hello Mynd44
Please can you unban Nemesis2u. He has been hit by the Anti-Spambot. Also un block his post in this thread.

Thanks.

@mydn44 and henry240
thanks

Henry240:


The Indian Air Force is strong, no doubt, but why does it seem like a massive logistically mess, with different types of aircrafts here and there?


What is the AMCA programme, where does it begin to fit in, in the entire Indian Force structure. Why can't the Indian government buy one fighter aircraft and leave it at that?

Why do you need, 8 different types of fighters in the Indian Air Force and Navy combined.

- Rafale, SU-30mki, Tejas, AMCA, MIG-29, MIG-29k, Jaguar, MIG-27 (yes, the Rafale should eventually replace these but they are still in service), BAE Hawk( Trainer, yes, but with potent attack capabilities), Mirage 2000-9.


I'm sure there are fighters i can't remember.

regarding AMCA plz read this post i made in reply to kikuyu1 , it will answer ur query
*****************************************************
no problem, it is always a pleasure


amca is a twin engined 5th gen medium category combat aircraft , it will replace the MIG 27 , JAGUARS etc.It is designed to be a 25-tonne class aircraft. It will have a range of 2,800 km.

amca will be a multi-mission, Swing role Medium class fighter aircraft which will have Internal two door Weapons bay in a side by side configuration. amca will have trapezoidal wings, all-moving horizontal tails and twin canted vertical tails.

Among other advanced technologies that confer stealth capabilities in the aircraft will be Serpentine air intakes, Radar Absorbing Structure (RAS), Radar Absorbing materials (RAM), Frequency selective surface (FCS) radome and conformal air data probes .

amca also will be getting next generation avionics suite which includes IMA (Integrated Modular Architecture) supporting net-centric capabilities, AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar and IRST (InfraRed Search and Track) systems , all round Missile Approach Warning System ( MAWS ), Touch based display systems and smart Heads up display ( HUD) , Advanced pilot vehicle interference (PVI), Pilot associate and integrated vehicle health management (IVHM) with Integrated flight and propulsion control systems.

In Stealth Configuration, amca will feature SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense) roles, along with Precision strikes and maritime missions. In Non-Stealth Configuration, amca will be able to carry payloads on External hardpoints which will include two drop tanks to carry out other missions where Stealth will not be a priority.

Brochure confirms that amca will have thrust vectoring functions in engines which will provide high Angle of attack (AOA) for close combat operations including dogfights.

its basic design has been frozen , now R & D etc is going on the various technologies that is been envisaged to be included in the amca.

eg. FLY BY OPTICS , this is a new flight control system where light is sent through optical fibers and used to control the actuators that move the flight / control surfaces.

the advantages r many , first it is immune to EMP unlike the previous FLY BY WIRE and even older ELECTRICAL/HYDRAULIC control systems. response and redundancy is much high . latency is also very low.

problem is , it is very technology intensive and only japan has managed to operationalize it . Indian teams r in japan to study it.

but technological challenges are many like stealth management , signal emission management , data fusion etc etc.

however the plus point is that during the LCA development more than 100 + labs and testing centers were set up with the required trained manpower (one main reason why LCA program was late) , so with the amca the development will be smooth and well within the required timeframe.

amca will take around 10 years to come online, provided the funding is on time together with government support.

aeroindia 2017 is going to happen very soon , then we will have more details
***************************************************************

2nd part of ur answer

if u have to face 2 nuclear armed adversaries , one 2-3 times more powerful then , why do u do?

IAF has 3 categories for combat aircrafts

HWF (heavy weight category twin engined) - SU-30MKIs / SUPER SU-30MKIs (on the works) , FGFA (PAKFA) (on the works)

MWF (middle weight category twin engined) - Mirage-2000(UPGRADED), MIG-29 SMT(UPGRADED) , JAGUARs(UPGRADED), RAFALEs , AMCA (on the works) , MIG 23/27 (to be retired)

LWF (light weight category single engined) - LCA MK1(40) LCA MK1A( 83), LCA MK2(on the works), LSA (speculative) , MIG21 (to be retired) and a speculative foreign fighter.

COMBAT HAWK version is in the works
HJT-36 intermediate jet trainer (under dev/trials) can also be armed as a light attack aircraft if desired
HTT-40 primary trainer (under dev/trials) can also be armed like the TUCANOs if desired


previously the mess with different types of aircraft was because of over the top Indian reliance on the soviets for aircraft's and the interference of the government over ruling IAF selection due to geo-political considerations plus kick backs.

but it payed off a little bit, if the soviets had not send their nuclear subs , american and british CBGs would have attacked india in 1971 in support of pa*****.

but as u correctly said it is/was a fuuking logistic nightmare which now the IAF is trying to come out of. lets see