Well done sauron, it's a surprise you can actually make sense of an argument
on a serious note the list should have looked somewhat like this

1st Capello
2nd Fergusson
3rd Hiddink
4th Hitszfield
5th Wenger
6th Mourinho
7th Lippi

DK quit chatting bollocks, everyone else is against your line of argument, shouldn't that tell you something huh
Luiz ronaldo delima never won the champions league does that make Eto'o or Sheva a better striker ehh

jalether:

Well done sauron, it's a surprise you can actually make sense of an argument
on a serious note the list should have looked somewhat like this

1st Capello
2nd Fergusson
3rd Hiddink
4th Hitszfield
5th Wenger
6th Mourinho
7th Lippi

Ferguson is a better manager than Capello by all standards.
Capello has not won 2 UCL titles wherever he has been and his number of league titles is below 10.

~Sauron~:

Ferguson is a better manager than Capello by all standards.
Capello has not won 2 UCL titles wherever he has been and his number of league titles is below 10.

He remains one if not the only manager to have won major titles in every single club he has coached, within the first or second year

at each club, who can beat that, fergusson hasn't proved his abilities anywhere else apart from United ofcourse, not to take anything away from

fergusson but Capello gets the best out of every player, look what he is doing with the English national team at the moment

jalether:

He remains one if not the only manager to have won major titles in every single club he has coached, within the first or second year

at each club, who can beat that, fergusson hasn't proved his abilities anywhere else apart from United ofcourse, not to take anything away from

fergusson but Capello gets the best out of every player, look what he is doing with the English national team at the moment

are you ignorant or you just wanna post
Aberdeen

tkb417:


are you ignorant or you just wanna post
Aberdeen

Jalether is an idiot.

If Ferguson can lead Aberdeen to beat Bayern Munich and Real Madrid to win an European cup, i dunno what else is there to be said.
The thang is some posters here just talk via their asses.
Pound for pound, Fergie is the greatest living manager in the world.

Different times my friend.
It is harder to win in Europe now than the days of Bayern Munich doing 3 in a row and Madrid doing 5 in a row.

Arsenal won just a year before Wenger joined tell me things suddenly became tough the moment Wenger joined in that same 'tough' time, Houllier, Benitez and Fergie won in Europe

This achievement is neither here or there.
It all depends on the amount of money Roma spent when they employed Capello's services.

What money did Capello spend in Roma only Batistuta
I remember Wenger also bought Reyes, henry and walcot for huge sums what has it won him that previous arsenal managers didnt?
Grooming is what counts not discovering. Count the number of 'future WPOTY' that are now playing in division 2 due to bad grooming.

Gotten which boot?
11 EPL titles in 17 seasons woulda gotten the boot?
It's too early to start talking via your ass, hombre. Fergie woulda kept his job anywhere in Europe and that includes Barca, Madrid and Milan.

Dont even mention Madrid who sacked Del Bosque after winning 2 CL and playing 2 semi finals in 4 seasons. Dont forget 2 league titles in 4 seasons too.
Capello was sacked after winning the league in his first season

_{*Grabs mic from Fergie and mounts goal.com stage*}

Sir Alex i'm really happy for you and imma let you finish but Marcello Lippi should have been voted as the World Best among other coaches and the reason ain't too far-fetched.He has won a title most of the other managers would most likely not win in their careers and thats the World Cup and let no one say well he won it with Italy they are a super-power, what is the guarantee that any of the other managers would have matched his achievement given the same team

good articulation of points, but Wenger truly deserves a place on that line up

dayokanu:

Dont even mention Madrid who sacked Del Bosque after winning 2 CL and playing 2 semi finals in 4 seasons. Dont forget 2 league titles in 4 seasons too.
Capello was sacked after winning the league in his first season

Capello was sacked because his style was too pragmatic.
Fergie wouldn't have been that bland with Real Madrid.

Del Bosque? He was sacked because the decision makers at Real Madrid felt he had no flair.
No presence on the technical area like Fergie or Mourinho.

Dayokanu aka Mr Champions League

Nottingham Forest are a bigger club than chelsea & arsenal cos they've won the european cup. . . - classic DK!!!

so of course i'm not surprised when he says Guardiola is a better manager than Wenger cos he won the champions league.

as a manager, YOU ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PLAYERS AT YOUR DISPOSAL!, for the most part.

any half brained dimwit can win the UCL with the squads barca won with this decade - in come Rijkaard & Guardiola. who's next? Shuaibu Amodu?

NO MANAGER IN THE WORLD WOULD DO A BETTER JOB AT ARSENAL THAN WENGER, NONE

so of course i'm not surprised when he says Guardiola is a better manager than Wenger cos he won the champions league.

as a manager, YOU ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PLAYERS AT YOUR DISPOSAL!, for the most part.

any half brained dimwit can win the UCL with the squads barca won with this decade - in come Rijkaard & Guardiola. who's next? Shuaibu Amodu?

NO MANAGER IN THE WORLD WOULD DO A BETTER JOB AT ARSENAL THAN WENGER, NONE

Explain how FC Porto won CL. Or how Benitez won the CL with Steve Finan, Djimi traore, Hyypia, Kewell, BarosBiscan, Hamman.

WHat materials were at the disposal of Van Gaal when he won CL with Ajax.

With all the materials at the disposal of Inter Milan in the last 13 years how come they never won CL.
With all the spending of Lazio and Chelsea how come they never won

@ Sauron,

Arsenal won just a year before Wenger joined tell me things suddenly became tough the moment Wenger joined in that same 'tough' time, Houllier, Benitez and Fergie won in Europe

What money did Capello spend in Roma only Batistuta
I remember Wenger also bought Reyes, henry and walcot for huge sums what has it won him that previous arsenal managers didnt?
Grooming is what counts not discovering. Count the number of 'future WPOTY' that are now playing in division 2 due to bad grooming.

Capello was sacked because his style was too pragmatic.
Fergie wouldn't have been that bland with Real Madrid.

And you think Fergie with the route 1 football of Beckham to Yorke/Nistelrooy would have been spared

Del Bosque? He was sacked because the decision makers at Real Madrid felt he had no flair.
No presence on the technical area like Fergie or Mourinho.

What presence. Fergie only throws tantrums in EPL. He dare not say a thing when he sees Van Gaal or Hitzfeld on the other side of the dug out.

Mourinho would have been sacked in 2 seasons at Madrid. No coach can survive Madrid echelon

ritchboy:

so of course i'm not surprised when he says Guardiola is a better manager than Wenger cos he won the champions league.

as a manager, YOU ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PLAYERS AT YOUR DISPOSAL!, for the most part.

a[b]ny half brained dimwit can win the UCL with the squads barca won with this decade[/b] - in come Rijkaard & Guardiola. who's next? Shuaibu Amodu?  

NO MANAGER IN THE WORLD WOULD DO A BETTER JOB AT ARSENAL THAN WENGER, NONE

The highlighted parts of your post make no sense. None at all. Besides longevity, Wenger ain't got shit on Rijkaard or Guardiola.

Isn't it under the guidance of Rijkaard, and in Rijkaards system alone that Ronaldinho became the best player in the world? what had Ronaldinho ever done before that, or even after that? an unknown Iniesta, Messi were put on the big stage, nurtured and became the stars we all know today.  Rijkaard inherited a star studded Barcelona team that couldn't even make the champions league. He got rid of players like Saviola and Kluivert for people like Ludovic guily and unknown Barca players like thiago motta, 16 yr old messi, Iniesta. You think these players just dropped out of thin air? Did you see the quality of football his team was playing? That was what made all those players super stars. Rijkaards system.  Rijkaards new team is on top of the table in Turkey, and has scored 7 more goals in the same amount of games than the 2nd placed team, Fenerbache. But i'm sure "any half brained dimwit' can do that too. Abi? Galatasray finished last season in 5th place.

Guardiola coached the Barca 2nd team and earned them promotion in his first season. coached barca's 1st team and won a treble in his 1st season playing absolutely fantastic football(u say ANY MANAGER would have done that . . are u fukn serious?) Has turned Sergio Busquests into a player that shut down Manchester United in the CL finals, won the Copa del rey with almost our 2nd team- with Bojan, busquets starting every game . Won the treble breaking every club record for goals scored. has won five trophies in one year and is still looking strong.

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT HAS WENGER DONE IN HIS LIFE THAT MAKES HIM SO SPECIAL!??! besides one unbeaten season. Wenger is living on past glory.

If u have an argument for why Wenger is a better coach, make it. . .but stop pretending he is miles above the others. He isn't. He isn't producing like before, and when he was he hardly ever, if ever, did the extraordinary.

Wenger has NEVER won a European trophy in over 20 years of management.

Ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!

dayokanu:

@ Sauron,
Arsenal won just a year before Wenger joined tell me things suddenly became tough the moment Wenger joined in that same 'tough' time, Houllier, Benitez and Fergie won in Europe

Explain why Bayern Munich haven't played in the CL final since the Twin Towers dropped!!!!

What money did Capello spend in Roma only Batistuta
I remember Wenger also bought Reyes, henry and walcot for huge sums what has it won him that previous arsenal managers didnt?
Grooming is what counts not discovering. Count the number of 'future WPOTY' that are now playing in division 2 due to bad grooming.

It depends on the overall strength of Roma's rivals in the Serie A that season.
Many factors lead to a team dominating the league. Jose Mourinho owned the EPL in 2004/5 because he simply had the best team in Europe.
As soon as there was parity between Chelsea n United in 2006/7, Mourinho became clueless and Fergie slammed him.

And you think Fergie with the route 1 football of Beckham to Yorke/Nistelrooy would have been spared

United played the best footie ever between 1999 and 2001.

What presence. Fergie only throws tantrums in EPL. He dare not say a thing when he sees Van Gaal or Hitzfeld on the other side of the dug out.

Who is Van Gaal and Hitzfeld compared to Sir Alex. Those cyborgs?
Abeg, don't make me laugh. Van Gaal??  Fergie has been leading teams to play in Europe in the days Hitzfeld was still mining tin in Duisburg.

Mourinho would have been sacked in 2 seasons at Madrid. No coach can survive Madrid echelon

I doubt it.
Jose Mourinho woulda shaken things up in Madrid.
He will divide the so called Mafioso schitzo in Madrid.

ritchboy:

as a manager, YOU ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PLAYERS AT YOUR DISPOSAL!, for the most part.

I agree 100%
40,000 Guardiolas and 50,000 Mourinhos couldn't have won the UCL with the Arsenal team of last season.
Capello should go and manage Hull FC and win the UCL.

dayokanu

i'm not going to argue with you until you tell me how much uefa pay you to glorify the UCL  

P.S. do you still maintain Nottingham Forest are a bogger club than Arsenal & Chelsea?

Krayola

you've somehow managed to say so much without actually saying anything!

Isn't it under the guidance of Rijkaard, and in Rijkaards system alone that Ronaldinho became the best player in the world?

theres this huge misconception that managers somehow single-handedly "make" players, if you ask me, its some classic BULLSHIT.
that ronaldinho became great while he had rijkaard as his manager adds little or nothing to his credibility.
a players development is primarily down to the player himself, not his manager, team-mate, mother, or high school bully.
i'd give COACHES more credit than managers. besides, ronaldinho was well on his way to greatness before rijkaard.

an unknown Iniesta, Messi were put on the big stage, nurtured and became the stars we all know today

nurtured by whom exactly? BARCELONA or rijkaard? more BS.

Rijkaard inherited a star studded Barcelona team that couldn't even make the champions league. He got rid of players like Saviola and Kluivert for people like Ludovic guily and unknown Barca players like thiago motta, 16 yr old messi, Iniesta.

ok, now this is one area where u can give managers credit, BUILDING a team by signing/picking the right players.

Rijkaards new team is on top of the table in Turkey, and has scored 7 more goals in the same amount of games than the 2nd placed team, Fenerbache. But i'm sure "any half brained dimwit' can do that too. Abi? Galatasray finished last season in 5th place.

good for him. and to answer your question, YES!

Guardiola coached the Barca 2nd team and earned them promotion in his first season. coached barca's 1st team and won a treble in his 1st season playing absolutely fantastic football(u say ANY MANAGER would have done that . . are u fukn serious?)

YES!, any manager half brained dimwit can put messi, xavi, iniesta, etoo, etc on a field and they will play good football.  

Has turned Sergio Busquests into a player that shut down Manchester United

explain to me how exactly he "turned" a VERY PROMISING player like busquests into a man utd shutter   more unadulterated BS.

If u have an argument for why Wenger is a better coach, make it. . .but stop pretending he is miles above the others.

i never said wenger is better than anyone, on the contrary, i said a manager is only as good as the team he manages.(i understand its late and you're drunk again, i do, but dont put words in my mouth)
which is why the best manager i the world(whoever he is) wont win the league with burnley. scratch burnley, he wont win the league with tottenham, villa, man city and i would go as far as arsenal today, and another day i might go as far as liverpool!

Explain why Bayern Munich haven't played in the CL final since the Twin Towers dropped!!!!

Bayern team dropped in quality that was the reason

It depends on the overall strength of Roma's rivals in the Serie A that season.
Many factors lead to a team dominating the league. Jose Mourinho owned the EPL in 2004/5 because he simply had the best team in Europe.
As soon as there was parity between Chelsea n United in 2006/7, Mourinho became clueless and Fergie slammed him.

You said Capello won because he spent money which is very wrong, Most of his rivals spent far more than him.
Inter had Vieiri for a world record. Juve had Nedved and Trezeguet. Milan had Sheva

You claimed Cappelo spent money which is insignificant compare to what his rivals spent
Lazio broke the world record for Crespo in that season. Juve bought Nedved

Who is Van Gaal and Hitzfeld compared to Sir Alex. Those cyborgs?
Abeg, don't make me laugh. Van Gaal?? Fergie has been leading teams to play in Europe in the days Hitzfeld was still mining tin in Duisburg.

Hitzfeld led 2 different teams to CL glory within 5 years Fergie did it in 9 years with the same team

I agree 100%
40,000 Guardiolas and 50,000 Mourinhos couldn't have won the UCL with the Arsenal team of last season.
Capello should go and manage Hull FC and win the UCL.

Mourinho won CL with FC Porto, Van Gaal won CL with youngsters at Ajax. Hitzfeld won with Dortmund, Benitez won CL with Liverpool I bet last seasons Arsenal was waayyy better than Liverpool of Dudek, Traore, Finan, Boscan, Hamman, Smicer, Kewell and co.

Why cant Wenger do the same with Arsenal

As for the other bunch i can't downplay the achievement of the likes of Ottmar Hitzfeld who won 2 UCL titles within 4years and lost a close fought final in 1999 i would rate him 2nd cos BVB Borrussia Dortmund where nobodies before he took over he also represented any form of hold Germany had in the UCL with his glory years of the late 90's and Early 2000's with Dortmund and Bayern.

Fergie has had the benefit of coaching Utd for ages heck i wasn't even born when he took the reins at the club and while his trophy haul is not to be bleeped with he has been very opportuned to stay on long enough to build that legacy.He comes in as 3rd behind Hitzfeld cos of that reason and the fact that Hitzfeld has 4 victories to Fergie's one in head to head clashes(counting both legs of ucl knockout rounds)

Cappello and Van Gaal are also greats

Mourinho also deserves a mention he has won everywhere he's been to,you can't fault that

Pep and Rijkaard are still on the come up its too early to involve em in the discussion but i'm sure they would make the list soon

As for my manager Arsene sadly i can't mention him in this discourse as if there where to be an association of coaches who have won European trophies Arsene would not be invited neither would he be able to apply for membership and we can go on all day about his ability to spot and groom talent and manage resources but his inability to conquer Europe strongly indicts any claim to the upper echelon of managers heck if Otto Rehhagel could win the Euros with Greece then Arsene has no excuse

that ronaldinho became great while he had rijkaard as his manager adds little or nothing to his credibility.
a players development is primarily down to the player himself, not his manager, team-mate, mother, or high school bully.
i'd give COACHES more credit than managers. besides, ronaldinho was well on his way to greatness before rijkaard.

This is a lie
Ronaldinho was another clueless player in French league before Rijkaard and Barcelona came calling.

YES!, any manager half brained dimwit can put messi, xavi, iniesta, etoo, etc on a field and they will play good football.

Another lie. How come Zamorano, Ronaldo Lima, Vieiri, Pagluica, Djokaeff, Diego Simeone could not win Serie A with Inter let alone CL.

Or Lazio with Crespo, Vieiri, Salas, Veron , Nedved, Nesta, could not win CL

dayokanu:

Bayern team dropped in quality that was the reason

What is the meaning of this statement?
The obsession with football managers is misguided.
Hardly any of them make any difference to results. The institution of manager is something of a con-trick.

The fact is that players’ salaries alone ALMOST entirely determine football results

You said Capello won because he spent money which is very wrong, Most of his rivals spent far more than him.
Inter had Vieiri for a world record. Juve had Nedved and Trezeguet. Milan had Sheva

Stop quoting isolated transfer fees.
United bought Berbatov for £30 million last season but Tottenham spent more dough overall.

You claimed Cappelo spent money which is insignificant compare to what his rivals spent
Lazio broke the world record for Crespo in that season. Juve bought Nedved

Yet another isolated issue.
Benitez is yet to spend £30 million on a single player in one season but the overall transfer of Liverpool outweighs Man Utd and Chelsea since he arrived. 10 players bought at £10 million each cost more than 3 players bought at £30 milla each.

Hitzfeld led 2 different teams to CL glory within 5 years Fergie did it in 9 years with the same team

If he was such a genius, why didn't he win the UCL when he came back to Bayern?

Mourinho won CL with FC Porto, Van Gaal won CL with youngsters at Ajax. Hitzfeld won with Dortmund, Benitez won CL with Liverpool I bet last seasons Arsenal was waayyy better than Liverpool of Dudek, Traore, Finan, Boscan, Hamman, Smicer, Kewell and co.

Why cant Wenger do the same with Arsenal

All the teams you listed there were stronger than any Arsenal team that has ever competed in the UCL.
Avram Grant(a badgeless coach) was JT's slip away from winning the UCL. Had Terry held his nerves, Grant woulda been a UCL winner.
That alone shows money always seems to win.

In English football now, managers could probably be replaced by stuffed teddy bears without their club’s league position changing.
The manager serves chiefly as a marketing device to fans, media, sponsors and players. He is the club’s spokesman.
Totemic faith is invested in his powers. As there isn’t much he can actually do, the key thing is that he looks the part.

As for the other bunch i can't downplay the achievement of the likes of Ottmar Hitzfeld who won 2 UCL titles within 4years and lost a close fought final in 1999 i would rate him 2nd cos BVB Borrussia Dortmund where nobodies before he took over he also represented any form of hold Germany had in the UCL with his glory years of the late 90's and Early 2000's with Dortmund and Bayern.

You are too smart to be an Arsenal fan I swear for this reason i dash you Moonstone

Fergie has had the benefit of coaching Utd for ages heck i wasn't even born when he took the reins at the club and while his trophy haul is not to be bleeped with he has been very opportuned to stay on long enough to build that legacy.He comes in as 3rd behind Hitzfeld cos of that reason and the fact that Hitzfeld has 4 victories to Fergie's one in head to head clashes(counting both legs of ucl knockout rounds)

Abel, Ori e pe. You are too smart for your Gayynnerism

Cappello and Van Gaal are also greats

Mourinho also deserves a mention he has won everywhere he's been to,you can't fault that

Pep and Rijkaard are still on the come up its too early to involve em in the discussion but i'm sure they would make the list soon

These 2 small boys have won a trophy that Arsenal and wenger havent won in over 20 years

As for my manager Arsene sadly i can't mention him in this discourse as if there where to be an association of coaches who have won European trophies Arsene would not be invited neither would he be able to apply for membership and we can go on all day about his ability to spot and groom talent and manage resources but his inability to conquer Europe strongly indicts any claim to the upper echelon of managers heck if Otto Rehhagel could win the Euros with Greece then Arsene has no excuse

Voice of wisdom . I cant believe a Gayyner wrote this.

True that not all Gayyners are fools but, unfortunately, all ,  are Gayyners

~Sauron~:

Gotten which boot?
11 EPL titles in 17 seasons woulda gotten the boot?
It's too early to start talking via your ass, hombre. Fergie woulda kept his job anywhere in Europe and that includes Barca, Madrid and Milan.

I was about to give you a reply until I saw Dikee's brillant post (below).

dayokanu:

Dont even mention Madrid who sacked Del Bosque after winning 2 CL and playing 2 semi finals in 4 seasons. Dont forget 2 league titles in 4 seasons too.
Capello was sacked after winning the league in his first season

In addition to the statement made above,european teams do not judge their mangers based solely on domestic trophies. Winning European cups also features highly on their agenda.

~Sauron~:

Yet another goof.
Fergie did not lead Man Utd to Europe until 1991(There was a 5 year ban on English clubs in Europe when Fergie joined Man Utd).
He actually won in Europe in his first attempt by beating Barcelona in 1991.
In those 18 years, he won the European cup THRICE. 1991, 1999 and 2008. 3 European titles in 18 years for Man Utd is not so bad.

Where in my post did I mention european trophies? . I clearly said European cups not trophies.

BTW  2 european cups might be seen as a high achievement for a team like Man united but for other european team it is simply not acceptable.

~Sauron~:

I doubt it.
Jose Mourinho woulda shaken things up in Madrid.
He will divide the so called Mafioso schitzo in Madrid.

This is a ridiculous statement to make. He hasn't got a cat in hell's chance. If Capello who is better rated on the continent could not do it ,what chance has mourinho got?

~Sauron~:

United played the best footie ever between 1999 and 2001.

Yea rite. Barca,Real,Milan,Bayern and Arsenal have all played better brand of footie.(1998-2009 era)

Yet another isolated issue.
Benitez is yet to spend £30 million in one season but the overall transfer of Liverpool outweighs Man Utd and Chelsea since he arrived.
10 players bought at £10 million each cost more than 3 players bought at £30 milla each.

Dont mix up issues, tell us the players Benitez bought in his first year to win CL.

If he was such a genius, why didn't he win the UCL when he came back to Bayern?

Ok you expect him to win when he spent just a season when Fergie struggled to win 2 in 20 years

All the teams you listed there were stronger than any Arsenal team that has ever competed in the UCL.

You mean a team of Dudek, Finan, Traore, Carragher, Hyypia, Biscan, Smicer, Gerrard, Kewwell, Cisse
are better than
Dudek vs Almunia (Seaman)
Finan vs Sagna (Lauren)
Clichy vs Djimi Traore (Ashley Cole)
Gallas vs Hyypia ( Campbell)
Toure vs Carragher  (Adams)
Song vs Smicer, (Parlour)
Fabregas vs Gerrard (Vieira)
Diaby vs Biscan (Pires)
Adebayor vs Cisse (Henry)
Van persie vs Baros (Bergkamp)

I know you are hardly objective but dont be ridiculous

chic2pimp:

I was about to give you a reply until I saw Dikee's brillant post (below).

DK hasn't made any brilliant comment since this debate started.
He is just ranting. Only a complete dork will compare Wenger to Pep who has played less than 15 UCL games in his career.

In addition to the statement made above,european teams do not judge their mangers based solely on domestic trophies. Winning European cups also features highly on their agenda.
Where in my post did I mention european trophies? . I clearly said European cups not trophies.

In total, Fergie has won 4 European cups in his entire managerial career.
Show me a manager that has more and i will show you a dinosaur in Oxford Circus.
How the heck is Capello better than SAF as a manager? I just don't see it. Y'all talk as if staying long in a club necessarily guarantees success.
Look at Wenger!!!!

BTW  2 european cups might be seen as a high achievement for a team like Man united but for other european team it is simply not acceptable.

Which other teams? How many times have Real Madrid won the UCL this decade?
How many times have Bayern? Barcelona? U lots are talking crap.

This is a ridiculous statement to make. He hasn't got a cat in hell's chance. If Capello who is better rated on the continent could not do it ,what chance has mourinho got?

Jose Mourinho is a more attractive product than Capello. Real Madrid will employ any manager to satisfy their lusts.
Did they not fellate on Carlos Queiroz(SAF's number 2)?? What about last season when they wanted Wenger at all cost?
Juande Ramos? SPURS reject managed em for a spell. Real Madrid are cunts.

Yea rite. Barca,Real,Milan,Bayern and Arsenal have all played better brand of footie.(1998-2009 era)

None of them have won United's number of league titles in the last 17 years.

~Sauron~:

[b]All the teams you listed there were stronger than any Arsenal team that has ever competed in the UCL.[/b]Avram Grant(a badgeless coach) was JT's slip away from winning the UCL. Had Terry held his nerves, Grant woulda been a UCL winner.
That alone shows money always seems to win.

Oh really?

In 2004,who had the better team,Arsenal or Fc porto?

Stop quoting isolated transfer fees.
United bought Berbatov for £30 million last season but Tottenham spent more dough overall.

In 2001
Lazio had Nedved, Crespo, Salas, Veron , Nesta, Perruzi, Mihajlovic

Juve had Zidane, Del piero, Inzaghi, trezeguet, Edgar Davids, Tacchinardi,

Parma had Buffon Thuram, Canavaro, Sergio Conceicao,

Milan had Shevy, Maldini, Albertini, Weah?? Leonardo,

who were the Roma players. Delvecchio, Montela, Pannuci, Totti, batistuta compare this team to the rivals

ritchboy:


Krayola

that ronaldinho became great while he had rijkaard as his manager adds little or nothing to his credibility.
a players development is primarily down to the player himself, not his manager, team-mate, mother, or high school bully.
i'd give COACHES more credit than managers. besides, ronaldinho was well on his way to greatness before rijkaard.

Do u think SAF had nothing to do with the players David Beckham, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes turned out to be? Do you think if any of these players left Man U prematurely we would be hearing their names today? SAF had EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT. Players become great at great teams, under great management. Of course the player has to work hard and be dedicated. That is a given.

Ronaldinho only won a world cup with  great brazil team. PSG didn't do shit with him. All Ronaldinho did at Paris was party. He is yet to do anything at Milan and is pretty much a substitute now. Rijkaard had everything to do with the Ronaldinho we all remember.

ritchboy:

nurtured by whom exactly? BARCELONA or rijkaard? more BS.

Rijkaard brought Messi and Iniesta unto the big stage. Iniesta was a 3rd choice player when Rijkaard took control of the team. Players like Reizeger were ahead of him.

A lot of very good players never do great things. Giovanni Dos Santos was in good hands, making waves in Rijkaards team. He left and his career has gone to shit. I don't understand how u can say managers don't play a very big role in making players great. SAF didn't have anything to do with CRonaldo?

ritchboy:

explain to me how exactly he "turned" a VERY PROMISING player like busquests into a man utd shutter   more unadulterated BS.

Who was Sergio Busquets? what did u know of him before Pep brought him in. he played as a lone DM in a 3 man midfield against Manchester United, covering a defense with yaya toure playing CB and Puyol at RB. but Pep had nothing to do with it?   Pep coached him and Pedro etc in the 2nd team. We only signed 2 players in this transfer window and Pep promoted 2 players he coached on the youth team. Watch them go on to become world beaters.

ritchboy:

i never said wenger is better than anyone, on the contrary, i said a manager is only as good as the team he manages.(i understand its late and you're drunk again, i do, but dont put words in my mouth)
which is why the best manager i the world(whoever he is) wont win the league with burnley. scratch burnley, he wont win the league with tottenham, villa, man city and i would go as far as arsenal today, and another day i might go as far as liverpool!  

As I said before SAF did it with a bunch of unknown kids, Rijkaard built a team of players that mostly had the " has potential" tag, and Pep is slowly building another team of unknowns. You will soon come and say Pep has nothing to do with the name Pique is making for himself, or Busquets, or Maxwell (was a bench warmer at Inter, and is now tearing up Barca's left side). Great managers can turn good players into great players by designing a system, and creating an environment- talented teammates and good coaching staff- that brings the best out of the players. Wenger has tried to perform a similar feat at Arsenal and has failed woefully. He only let players from a championship team leave because he felt he could win without them Unless you want to come and make an argument that Wenger wanted to be fighting for 4th place when he let players like Ljunberg, Pires, Vieira, Henry go. Wenger was a great manager, but he is now living on past glory.

@ Dayokanu,

Stop making me laugh abeg.
U keep stressing Rafa's debut season. . . . . . .Are we talking about the same season Rafa finished a staggering 38 points below the league leaders?
A club must conquer his league to be a worthy Champion in Europe.
Clubs that sacrifice their domestic league's glory to be fresh in Europe don't have ma respect and that was what Rafa did in 2004/5.
Wenger and Fergie will not put up with that.


How many titles has Shitzfeld won in Europe?
He's been managing European clubs since 1985. Don't u think he shoulda copped more than 2 European titles to his name.
The same Shitzfeld couldn't qualify Bayern for UCL in 2007 and you are here spewing hokum.
Shitzfeld is what he is. . . . . .SHIT.

jalether:

Well done sauron, it's a surprise you can actually make sense of an argument
on a serious note the list should have looked somewhat like this

1st Capello
2nd Fergusson
3rd Hiddink
4th Hitszfield
5th Wenger
6th Mourinho
7th Lippi

DK quit chatting bollocks, everyone else is against your line of argument, shouldn't that tell you something huh
Luiz ronaldo delima never won the champions league does that make Eto'o or Sheva a better striker ehh

I think Mourinho should be on top of Wenger on this list.

~Sauron~:

DK hasn't made any brilliant comment since this debate started.
He is just ranting. Only a complete dork will compare Wenger to Pep who has played less than 15 UCL games in his career.

While I agree with u in that comparing Wenger to Pep is wrong, Dk has however argued some of his points brilliantly.

~Sauron~:

In total, Fergie has won 4 European cups in his entire managerial career.
Show me a manager that has more and i will show you a dinosaur in Oxford Circus.
How the heck is Capello better than SAF as a manager? I just don't see it. Y'all talk as if staying long in a club necessarily guarantees success.
Look at Wenger!!!!

Although I believe the difference between the two managers is minimal,I can see where they are coming from.

On whether longevity guarantees sucess,I believe longevity on it's own does not guarantee sucess. However other factors combined with longevity does guarantee sucess. This are:-
1) Quality of Manager
2)Quality of Squad
3)How much money the board members are willing to spend

~Sauron~:


Which other teams? How many times have Real Madrid won the UCL this decade?
How many times have Bayern? Barcelona? U lots are talking crap.

Nahh we ain't. Del bosque won two champions league title in 3 years and still got the sack. Rijkaard won the league title in spain back to back(also won the champions lge)and he also got the boot.

Meanwhile fergie goes 4 years without winning a major trophy and he survives getting the boot. Wenger has not won a major trophy since 2005(if you count the F.A cup) and gaynners fans and board think he is king.

~Sauron~:

Jose Mourinho is a more attractive product than Capello. Real Madrid will employ any manager to satisfy their lusts.
Did they not fellate on Carlos Queiroz(SAF's number 2)?? What about last season when they wanted Wenger at all cost?

Mourinho might be the more attractive product but he is certainly not the better manager of the two.

Wenger decision to stay on @ arsenal is because he knows the Arsenal's board are willing to listen to crazy excuses(Job Security) unlike the Real madrid board. As mourinho later remarked,wenger knows he can pratically piss on Arsenal's board member and still get away with it.

~Sauron~:

None of them have won United's number of league titles in the last 17 years.

Of couse they haven't and I think we all know the reason why. The premier league since its inception has pratically been a one team legue.

Clubs that sacrifice their domestic league's glory to be fresh in Europe don't have ma respect and that was what Rafa did in 2004/5.
Wenger and Fergie will not put up with that.

The same Wenger that has been contented with 4th position for the past how many seasons?

How many titles has Shitzfeld won in Europe?
He's been managing European clubs since 1985. Don't u think he shoulda copped more than 2 European titles to his name.

Many of Hitzfeld years were spent with upcoming teams. He took Dortmund from nowhere to win the CL. No other manager has done that since 1997 12 years ago

The same Shitzfeld couldn't qualify Bayern for UCL in 2007 and you are here spewing hokum.
Shitzfeld is what he is. . . . . .SHIT

.

How many months did Hitzfeld spend in 2007. Hitzfeld took over a mteam in crisis. His only full season he won the League.

Hitzfeld has faced Faggotson 4 times. and the head to head stands at 4-1.
Faggotson is what he is , A gay

SAF would not have succeeded at Madrid as the working conditions are much different from what he has at ManU
- He would have little say in transfers
- He would be expected to provide results from his first season. There will be no grace period for team building.
- He would be required to deliver silverware every season and would be fired at his first failing.
- He would be required to make adequate progress in the CL. Failing to qualify from the group stages like ManU did in 2005/06 (finished bottom of the group) is unacceptable
- He would be required to play entertaining football
- He has to stay in the shadow of the president.
- depending on his fluency in Spanish and Portuguese, he could have difficulty with communicating.

Fergie would likely have been fired in his first season.

The achievements of a coach or manager should always be taken in context.