[flash=425,344]http://tv.muxlim.com/embed/p62mOitjcA5[/flash]

JazakAllahu Khair, broter Frizzy.

Barakallahu fihì

what a fraud?

how can the "corrupt" bible confirm mohammed? . . . . . .the islamic desperation is annaoying

You can say that again

Thought provoking. May Allah bless you Frizy.

You never translate a name , it has to retain its status and pronounciation. Anyone wonder why we always have the translated quran with the arabic by its side? It is to prevent fraudulent translations.

Bible was translate from hebrew to greek to English then to several other languages - 4 chains of translation. Jesus also spoke aramaich and not the hebrew as we know it today. Language experts tells us aramaik is the closest language to arabic and like a dialect of arabic and this laguage is still spoken in some parts of palestine. Merl Gibson also use this language in his movie passion of the christ,

Lagosboy:

Thought provoking. May Allah bless you Frizy.

You never translate a name , it has to retain its status and pronounciation. Anyone wonder why we always have the translated quran with the arabic by its side? It is to prevent fraudulent translations.

Bible was translate from hebrew to greek to English then to several other languages - 4 chains of translation. Jesus also spoke aramaich and not the hebrew as we know it today. Language experts tells us aramaik is the closest language to arabic and like a dialect of arabic and this laguage is still spoken in some parts of palestine. Merl Gibson also use this language in his movie passion of the christ,

does this make any sense?

Yap

You noetic, you are a wonderful fella.

wondering is not always wonderful!

When they wonder around it is because they have no clue about the truth!

Look at the humongous sky; the space and all, as far as the eye can see;

Is there a god with the One God Who created it?

The Jewish Rabbi says Muhammadin, and somebody is saying "does that make any sense!"

They should go ask the Rabbi who said it, or at least get smart and do some research about this!

olabowale:

wondering is not always wonderful!

When they wonder around it is because they have no clue about the truth!

Look at the humongous sky; the space and all, as far as the eye can see;

Is there a god with the One God Who created it?

The Jewish Rabbi says Muhammadin, and somebody is saying "does that make any sense!"

They should go ask the Rabbi who said it, or at least get smart and do some research about this!

a. what is the truth?

b. what is mohammed's name doing in a "corrupt" bible?

a corrupt cop, still wears the uniform. if his boss and others ask him to haul in a person arrested already handcuffed, shall we say that the defense team will ask the judge to throw out the case, because the cop who simply brought him in, not th one who busted him, is corrupt and thats the only ground for this motion?

The judge will deny the motion, because the fact of the matter is that the corruption of this cop has nothing to do with the fact that a crime warranting arrest was committed by the criminal!

True that the Bible is corrupt. No one says that everything in the Bible is corrupt, lie. Here about Muhammad (as), is part of the remnants of truth still left in the Bible. Allah says in the Quran, the people of the Books know Muhammad (AS) as a prophet as much as they know their own children as their offsprings! This part of Song of Solomon confirms exactly that verse of the Quran.

While you guys are reeling in lies of "Greek's most ancient" manuscript, the Jews in their stubbornness, rejected Jesus who was from them and it was by the Power of Allah that what remained of Muhammad remains.

Smart people would go ask the Jews whom the salvation still belongs about why Muhammadin is still in their Book and who is Muhammadin or what is Muhammadin?

I know what Muhammadin is and who he is (AS). I say Muhammadin everytime I make tashahuud just before I say anything about Ibrahim (AS)!

I wanna see how you make prayer to Eloi about Abraham, or do any of you remember him, at anything in the day? Yet he is the father of faith? The father you only use his name when its convenient for you and dont remember, except you are going to give us a song and dance like the magicians of the house of Pharaoh. At least they became believers (Muslims) when they say the miracle from the hands of Musa (AS), while they only performed magic!

So, can Machmad signify Muhammad? Wise men allow that when one verse is in doubt it is justified to explain one passage of the Bible by another. The word machmad appears twelve more times in the Old Testament. Since Muslims are so intent on finding the name of Muhammad in the Hebrew word "machmad," it is important that they remain consistent. Therefore, we have printed these twelve prophetic verses below and leave it to you to ascertain whether they fit. Note that we have been consistent in now translating this word as the long-neglected "proper noun" which they claim it to be.
1 Kings 20:6: "Yet I will send my servants to thee tomorrow about this time, and they shall search thy house, and the houses of thy servants; and it shall be, [that] whatever is Muhammad in thy eyes, they shall take [it] in their hand, and carry [it] away."

2 Chronicles 36:19: "And they burnt the house of God, and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all its palaces with fire, and destroyed all its Muhammad vessels."

Isaiah 64:11: "Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned with fire: and all our Muhammad things are laid waste."

Lamentations 1:10: "The adversary hath spread out his hand upon all her Muhammad things: for she hath seen [that] the nations entered into her sanctuary, whom thou didst command [that] they should not enter into thy congregation."

Lamentations 1:11: "All her people sigh, they seek bread; they have given their Muhammad things for food to relieve the soul: see, O LORD, and consider; for I am become vile."

Lamentations 2:4: "He hath bent his bow like an enemy: he stood with his right hand as an adversary, and slew all [that were] Muhamma[/b]d to the eye in the tabernacle of the daughter of Zion: he poured out his fury like fire."


Ezekiel 24:16: "Son of man, behold, I take away from thee the [b]Muhammad of thy eyes with a stroke: yet neither shalt thou mourn nor weep, neither shall thy tears run down."

Ezekiel 24:21: "Speak to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will profane my sanctuary, the excellence of your strength, the Muhammad of your eyes, and that which your soul pitieth; and your sons and your daughters whom ye have left shall fall by the sword."

Ezekiel 24:25: "Also, thou son of man, [shall it] not [be] in the day when I take from them their strength, the joy of their glory, the Muhammad of their eyes, and that on which they set their minds, their sons and their daughters." Hosea 9:6: "For, lo, they are gone because of destruction: Egypt shall gather them up, Memphis shall bury them: the Muhammad [places] for their silver, nettles shall possess them: thorns [shall be] in their tabernacles."

Hosea 9:16: "Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay [even] the Muhammad [fruit] of their womb."

Joel 3:5: "Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my Muhammad things."

If this mutilation of Scripture seems to you ridiculous, it is meant to be as it shows the quality of the theory behind such an idea.

When taken to its logical conclusion it makes a mockery of Hebrew grammar. Why should an adjectival clause be translated a proper noun? Machmad already has a proper noun counterpart, but more closely related to the clause -- Chemdan (or Hemdan), the eldest son of Dishon of Anah the Horite. If machmad should have been written as a proper noun the author would have written Chemdan.

This claim is quite similar to the issue of the paraclete in the book of John (which we will refer to later). Many Muslims contend that it is another prophecy of Muhammad. Yet this prophecy in John 14 and 16 has been shown for what it is - a prophecy of the Spirit of God. We find it peculiar that Muslims will, in one text, base their claim on the meaning of one word at the expense of its pronunciation (paracletos versus periclytos) and yet with another text base their claim on the pronunciation of a single word at the expense of its meaning (desire versus praise)!

If these techniques of hermeneutics are just, then wouldn't it be quite in line to expect to find as a substitute for the word paracletos a prophet named "Perry Clinton," whose name really means "the desired one?" Absurd? Yes! That is the point. Using this technique one can conjure up a prophecy for nearly any prophet one happens to fancy, or even make up one on the whim.

Conversely, a Hindu could claim that in Sura 30:1, the word "al-rum" (for Romans), which can be written "Ram," must be referring to the Hindu God "Rama."

A further irony in this whole exercise is that Muhammad is not even the name which the prophet grew up with. According to Muslim tradition, in his youth Muhammad was called Amin, a common Arab name meaning "faithful, or trustworthy." Amin was his given name, a masculine form from the same root as his mother's name "Amina."

We understand the desire by Muslims to find any prophecy which will give credence to Muhammad, for without it Muhammad has no outside evidence to prove his prophethood. That then leaves the authority for the beliefs of over one billion Muslims hanging on the single testimony of just one finite man. We ask, however, that Muslims not twist or attack the scriptures in order to gain their own agenda. We are constantly amazed that Muslims should be at once both critics and stewards of the Holy Scriptures of Christians and Jews. It would be better to be of one mind.

If Muslims firmly believe the scriptures are inadequate then they should behave as such and abstain from picking and choosing what they like from what they deem a hopelessly inadequate book. We will not insult them for bravely allying with other enemies of the Bible. But it is hypocrisy to use data from a book they claim is crude and inferior to support an already illogical argument.

If we truly believe the scriptures and desire to find prophecies within them, then we need to read them all and learn with an open mind. We need to truly submit ourselves to the authoritative and COMPLETE teachings of Scripture as has been diligently preserved throughout the ages.

JESUS IS LORD

@Sleek29,

You forget to provide us with the link of the site where you copied your above reply. Do that at least for further reading, will you?

sleek29:






JESUS IS LORD

, and the blasphemy/confusion  continues

I wonder why muslims are desparately trying to justify they religion from the Bible . . . . .

I thought they were saying the Bible is corrupt . . . .

What a funny bunch?

Bible is partly interpolated, Nezan. No Muslim, fully sane and educated, can claim that Bible is wholly corrupt. Get that?

Then why dont you muslims believe in the Bible, because going by Biblical injunctions, mohammed was a fake prophet!

Nezan:

Then why dont you muslims believe in the Bible, because going by Biblical injunctions, mohammed was a fake prophet!

That claim alone ascertains my prior input: Bible is partly corrupt.

http://www.hlinc-zionsake.org/Mud2-final.html

simple, the word mohammad is an adjective in hebrew, it occurred in a lot of places in the bible, you should stop trying to put this fake prophet in the bible, just because his name is mohammed doesn't make a man who had a huge sexual appetite, had a 9yr old as a wife, killed and ordered others to do the same,  A PROPHET.

OK.

Continue. . .

what are muslims afraid of?, the fact that they know that their prophet is indeed not from God?, this has been a way christians has been lured into islam, i was a muslims, i know all of these lies, parakletos or periklytos, put my word in your mouth, ask yourselves this question, did mohammed ever mention this prophecies when he was alive, maybe in the hadith or the quran, did he say sprcifically that he was the periklytos?, this is the person Jesus told us about has all of these qualities:

Jesus said the parakletos is not a human being:
John 14:16: "he will be with you for ever" (a human doesn't live forever)
14:17: "he will be the spirit of truth" (a human is distinct from spirit)
14:17: "the world neither sees him, " (a human is visible)
14:17: ", nor knows him" (a human would be known by others)
14:17: "and he will be in you" (a human cannot be within others)
Jesus said that the parakletos has a specific mission; to point to Jesus:
14:26: "whom the Father will send in my (Jesus') name"
14:26: "will remind you everything I (Jesus) have said to you"
16:8: "he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin, "
16:14: "He will bring glory to me (Jesus), "
Finally, Jesus said that the parakletos is a spirit:
14:17: "the Spirit of Truth"
14:26: "the Counsellor (parakletos), the Holy Spirit"

Muslims are very desparate when faced with the truth.
Mohammed plagiarised the Bible and twisted parts of it, then turn around to say the Bible is corrupt, but never provided the original.
He claimed to believe in Jesus but denied his works, that is why a muslim will lie to you that he believe in Jesus.

What funny characters

You can say that again and again, wallyi i pity you when death will strike, just pray that jesus will descend while you are alive thats the only way you will know if yo misguided

Jesus is the way . . . no man cometh to the Father except through Him!, save your pity for yourself.

sleek29:

what are muslims afraid of?, the fact that they know that their prophet is indeed not from God?

I'll open a fresh thread in response to that soon, inshaAllah.

oya we are waiting!

Sleek29« #20 on: October 02, 2009, 01:33 PM »

http://www.hlinc-zionsake.org/Mud2-final.html

simple, the word mohammad is an adjective in hebrew, it occurred in a lot of places in the bible, you should stop trying to put this fake prophet in the bible, just because his name is mohammed doesn't make a man who had a huge sexual appetite, had a 9yr old as a wife, killed and ordered others to do the same, A PROPHET.

Muhammadin is what the Jewish rabbi said. But what is the meaning of Muhammad in Semitic language you think the Bible was revealed in? That is the issue, and your putting name in English sentences is the biggest gimmick you and yur Jewish cohorts have perpetrated! Put Muhammadin in the language of Bani Israil and lets see what it truly means!

« #22 on: October 02, 2009, 02:22 PM »
what are muslims afraid of?, the fact that they know that their prophet is indeed not from God?, this has been a way christians has been lured into islam, i was a muslims, i know all of these lies, parakletos or periklytos, put my word in your mouth, ask yourselves this question, did mohammed ever mention this prophecies when he was alive, maybe in the hadith or the quran, did he say sprcifically that he was the periklytos?, this is the person Jesus told us about has all of these qualities:

I shall ask you why are the Christians not capable to see the truth and know that self desire is different from reality of God? What are the Christians afraid of? Now I have answered your questions by the bolded pieces beside your opinions! We are not afraid of anything, afterall, we say Jesus is our prophet, Isa bin Mariam (AS).

Jesus said the parakletos is not a human being: Jesus did not use any Greek word. Jesus did not say the Comforter is not a human being, otherwise how is this another comforter going to be different from the former comforter, the speaking human, etc Jesus? Now know that the characteristics of what is expected to be another comforter is talk, hears and repeats, teacher quality, a correcter of mistakes, and speaker as reminder, etc. Only humans fit these. How would you know that he was told what he was saying, except he says I was told, including the good, the bad and the ugly, he must say evertything without hiding anything.

Read the Quran and see the Surah Abasa speaks against a mere turning of head of Muhammad. While soe of you sees Quran as his convenient revelations to do whatever, why would he reveal this particular chapter about himself?

John 14:16: "he will be with you for ever" (a human doesn't live forever) Teir work does! No? Jesus does not live forever then. This is a fact. Muhammad does not live forever, but the Quran given to him is purely intact. We cant say of the same of the Bible; between Catholic and protestants, it is obvious that some corruptions entered into the Bible!

14:17: "he will be the spirit of truth" (a human is distinct from spirit)And the litmus of prophet, true prophet or false prophet is the quality of his spirit. Did you read that part at all in your Bible; test all spirit if is good, then it is a prophet from God, and if not its a false prophet. No?

14:17: "the world neither sees him, " (a human is visible) Jesus was seen so you proof him as human alone! Lol. But he claimed to be the other comforter talking about another comforter to come. No? You shot yourself in the foot, yet you were supposed to be the safety officer!

14:17: ", nor knows him" (a human would be known by others) He was talking to his people of the future, and at that time they did not know Muhamad, an arab, not a Child of Israel. That itself is the world (Israelite nation) never know this Arab! How will they not know him, later when he is supposed to teach, speak, reminds, etc? You people frustrate me with your baby sitter thinking No initiative at all, This also apply to Jesus, proving him to be human.

14:17: "and he will be in you" (a human cannot be within others) Is Jesus in you? How and was he not because he was a human being that you know about him? Think man. Nigera does not raise too many fools; we ship the men to england.

Jesus said that the parakletos has a specific mission; to point to Jesus: And Mhammad fulfilled what Jesus was all about; his full description, including his long wet hair and the fact that he has a beard. Madness has caused many to bring pictures of nordic europeans to represent a semit. The Children of Israel must be laughing themselves sily in their bars and homes, at the foolishness of the Christians! No? I have heard some Jews call Christians idol worshippers!

14:26: "whom the Father will send in my (Jesus') name" I have already established that there is no father anywhere except your earthly father. Calling God your father while He is your Creator and you are His creation, is you warped personal desire ! Jesus is not in position as a aprophet to dictate what God His Lord will do! He is only told what he needed to know and to affirm his prophetic office and the prediction that there is someone to come after him, is not to say that the person will be sent because Jesus wanted him to be sent! God Alone determines that!

Muhammad is from Allah and the uran cnfirms it by all the unique elements it contains, and no other Book of religion has them! While your Bible dances between somebody sees God and no one sees Him, Muhammad stands on no one has and God is completely different from what the heart can conjur up! While you are fighting each other as to if God is human, or whatever, Muhammad stands on the Sueriority of The Creator, not Jesus, not Melchezdekeh, etc not Angel,. etc.

14:26: "will remind you everything I (Jesus) have said to you"Muhammad did exactly this, and there is no room for confusion, while you fight yourselves between, he is God, while other ays he is God and His own son, while others say he is only prophet! Three distinct positions in the same group; you people must love three; three gods, three wise men, three positions, etc! Woooh! Wow.

16:8: "he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin, "Is this not exactly what Muhammad did, as he separated all evils away from all goods and protocol of worshipping One True God? Is Jesus God or Human Messenger? Lol!

16:14: "He will bring glory to me (Jesus), " How did the Spirit accomplish this, and I will like to see the chapters and verses, while Surah Imran, Isra, Mariam, etc including Ambiyya confirm the Muhammad restoration of the honorable position of Jesus, and not the lies that you Christian people haul against him, while the Jews strip him of every and all!

Finally, Jesus said that the parakletos is a spirit: spirit like prophet otherwise how do you test the spirit to either be a true spirit or a false spirit, except that it is either a false prophet or true prophet by his prophetic qualities? The Christians bury themselves with their own Bible, all the time, considering that God is not the Author of confusion, Paul and the gang are!

14:17: "the Spirit of Truth" [b]The prophet of truth is more like it, since you and I know that there is no way to test a spirit! Lol, I wish this guy knows that he just killed the day of pentecosts' spirit as comforter gimmick? Now how do you test that spirit of the day of pentecosts, except that he met all the prescribed functions that Jesus told his desciples; you will hear him speak, what he hears he will repeat of his own volition, he will say it 100% without hiding anything, while nothing he said will be of his own desire, then glorifying as in defense of the truth of Jesus, and by extension his mother, and teaching you new things as to all the things I did not teach you, and reminding you of what I teached, and he will abide with you for ever in Purity!?

Now how did the spirit, if not a human prophet did any of these? Muhammad did all of them because he was a prophet, a human being like Jesus and others before them, and abides by the believers for ever in the Quran and authentic ahadith, visiting his grave to physically see when he is located, and continue to talk in real terms about him, following his actions, which are completely relevant!? Now deny any of these, while the Quran is with us, where is the remnant of what the unseen and unheard taught anyone?[/b]

14:26: "the Counsellor (parakletos), the Holy Spirit" It would have been better if you wrote it in Syriac a semitic language which is what Jesus spoke instead of the greek gimmick you Christians are fond of when you are intending to lie. Its very unbecoming of you people!


@Nezan (m): « #23 on: Yesterday at 11:39:43 AM »

Muslims are very desparate when faced with the truth.
Mohammed plagiarised the Bible and twisted parts of it, then turn around to say the Bible is corrupt, but never provided the original.
He claimed to believe in Jesus but denied his works, that is why a muslim will lie to you that he believe in Jesus.

What funny characters

Which of the authentic work of Jesus Muhammad deniy? Is it the fact that he spoke as a child to announce his prophetic office so that what came next, the defense of his mother from open accusation of adultery the only reason they did not stone her is denied or is it the Bible that denies this obvious fact? How can anyone logically explain how Mary escaped the Mosaic law on adultery, especially when hier son said"Dont think I came to abrogate/abolish the Laws and prophets, except that I come to fulfill even the least of it, including the "jot"?"

The Musis dont have to show you any original, it is you who must bring out an original which is not corrupt! The muslims by Allah to His Messenger (AS) says your Bible is corrupt and you have many versions, so show us a single original and we will take anything different from this a s corrupt, considering the context and time of writing the Catholic version must be more original, less corrupt than what the Protestants can ever produce! And when a person says something is corrupt, it simply means not 100% pure anymore! Is that not funny that you continue to misunderstand this simple fact?

« #25 on: Yesterday at 11:45:02 AM »
Jesus is the way . . . no man cometh to the Father except through Him!, save your pity for yourself.

If the world had ended with Jesus, maybe his generation saying this could have made sense. Alhamdulillah, the world did not end, and Muhammad (AS) was raised up by Allah for mankind, not for arabs, alone, as Jesus and the children of Israel were raised for the Children of Israel's nations!

Nezan do you know the first prophet for the children of Israel, since already know who the last of themis? Your statement about could easily be appropriately said by the people in the boat of Noah, and they would have been more correct than your Jesus is the only way situation, considering that the Jews who holds the key to your salvation refused to accept him, and yet they do not forfeit the holdership of that key! How important is Jsus then to africans, if the Jews refused to accept him and their Paradise is not dented yet, according to the Christians saying" salvation is of the Jews?"

« #27 on: Yesterday at 12:39:04 PM »
oya we are waiting!

Am sureif hyou have been told its mo money, fewer friends you would have abandoned the certain to be beached or drowned Christian ship that its destination is heaven where hell i the room that it will rest in! No one needs to open anymore threads to satisfy your insatiable apetite for lies! You wanna remain opposition to God, continue and see where it leads you, you human god worshipper!

@ olabowale, what's the meaning of all you have just written, incomprehensibe to say the least, the video didn't tell us what the word meant in hebrew rather it said it was mohammadin, what does it mean?, the praised one?, or what as other places its found in the bible its used as an adjective meaning something precious, lovely and not a noun.

and i was just disclaming the islamic idea that he said parakletos in full alos parakletos( another of the same kind that will be with you and counsel you, defend you e.t.c.)

I hope sleek29 does think? He should have gone to the Jews to ask them what is the meaning of that song in totality? What is it that is totally lovey in that song? Do you sleek29 know? If you do not know I already suggest that you go and ask knowledgeable Jews what it means!

For example Barack in Islam is Mubarackallah or barackallah. The jews have that name as a semitic name, but will a muslim family leaves the Muslim name and call their son jewish barack or it must be Mubarackallah or barackallah?

Now the Quran says that the people of the Books know Muhammad (AS) as they know their own children, so it will not be surprising that Muhammad's name and derivitives of it is on the pages of their books, as well as calling him another comforter!

Now, sleek29, who is the former comforter? Spirit, too, why dont you try Jesus "son" of Mary; a human being?

olabowale, why can't you just think for once, i said the word mahmad is used to describe something precious or lovely that's why i gave you twelve other places its found in the bible,

sleek29:


1 Kings 20:6: "Yet I will send my servants to thee tomorrow about this time, and they shall search thy house, and the houses of thy servants; and it shall be, [that] whatever is Muhammad in thy eyes, they shall take [it] in their hand, and carry [it] away."

2 Chronicles 36:19: "And they burnt the house of God, and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all its palaces with fire, and destroyed all its Muhammad vessels."

Isaiah 64:11: "Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned with fire: and all our Muhammad things are laid waste."

Lamentations 1:10: "The adversary hath spread out his hand upon all her Muhammad things: for she hath seen [that] the nations entered into her sanctuary, whom thou didst command [that] they should not enter into thy congregation."

Lamentations 1:11: "All her people sigh, they seek bread; they have given their Muhammad things for food to relieve the soul: see, O LORD, and consider; for I am become vile."

Lamentations 2:4: "He hath bent his bow like an enemy: he stood with his right hand as an adversary, and slew all [that were] Muhamma[/b]d to the eye in the tabernacle of the daughter of Zion: he poured out his fury like fire."


Ezekiel 24:16: "Son of man, behold, I take away from thee the [b]Muhammad of thy eyes with a stroke: yet neither shalt thou mourn nor weep, neither shall thy tears run down."

Ezekiel 24:21: "Speak to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will profane my sanctuary, the excellence of your strength, the Muhammad of your eyes, and that which your soul pitieth; and your sons and your daughters whom ye have left shall fall by the sword."

Ezekiel 24:25: "Also, thou son of man, [shall it] not [be] in the day when I take from them their strength, the joy of their glory, the Muhammad of their eyes, and that on which they set their minds, their sons and their daughters." Hosea 9:6: "For, lo, they are gone because of destruction: Egypt shall gather them up, Memphis shall bury them: the Muhammad [places] for their silver, nettles shall possess them: thorns [shall be] in their tabernacles."

Hosea 9:16: "Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay [even] the Muhammad [fruit] of their womb."

Joel 3:5: "Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my Muhammad things."

If this mutilation of Scripture seems to you ridiculous, it is meant to be as it shows the quality of the theory behind such an idea.

When taken to its logical conclusion it makes a mockery of Hebrew grammar. Why should an adjectival clause be translated a proper noun? Machmad already has a proper noun counterpart, but more closely related to the clause -- Chemdan (or Hemdan), the eldest son of Dishon of Anah the Horite. If machmad should have been written as a proper noun the author would have written Chemdan.

Think man and stop blabbing, Jesus means yehushua in hebrew but its Yisa in arabic how close is that?