ValentineMary:

Earlier u said ur knowledge of physics is limited then how did u come to the bolded conclusion was it because of ur ignorance? if God is put where we still don't know, then God would be an ever receding pocket of scientific discoveries.

butterfly88:
1st scientifically speaking or from the physics point of view there was no time before the big bang..time started from the big bang...and because of the plank's wall physicist don't know what is or what was before the big bang,and as you know physics goes hand in hand with prove,the physicist cannot adopt the notion of I don't know there for it is God....2nd is you are correct the first law was violated by the big bang there could be a force that sets the ball rolling but physicist havent discovered that force and for the note a lot of laws in classical physics have been displaced and disproved when we dabble into quantum physics...for instance it is now known that gravity isn't just a force of attraction and many more...well I too don't know much about physic

And mind you I'm no athiest just try to be objective

butterfly88:
the pascal's sucker bet,also attributed to rene descartes and the Muslim Ali is a brilliant question to ask but it isn't scientific is it?

shadeyinka:


I appreciate your objectivity.
Time is always measured from a point of view of a reference. The choice of reference however is for our convenience as change in time is more useful to physicists than absolute time.

So, there may not really exist an absolute time zero! By implication, time t=0 can not be at the point of the B-Bang but can be extended well before that. I just want to imagine the physics laws before the Bang.

On the second issue, you are correct. Physicists have NOT been able to account for the violations. As a Theist, I assert that the Atheist claim of being sure that other non classical or quantum do not exist may not be correct.

Theists will call the unaccounted force as Spiritual.
Atheists are still looking for answers relating to classical or quantum physics.

I appreciate your objective look

raphieMontella:

oboi! Go and learn quantum physics...classical physics is a baby!
Quantum physics violates classical physics like abc

shadeyinka:


You just spoke some Greek. Can you pls rephrase?

SirWere:


You are also hedging a bet.

The probability of your religion being right is also about 0.0002%.

Hence; if you are wrong about Allah; odin; Brahman; Vishnu; you're also going to hell.

raphieMontella:

are u so addicted on something?
He said he doesnt know...must he adhere to scripture or science?
Baba think ni

butterfly88:
Also @op I want to use your 1st law of motion against you...if nothing can come into existence by is self,how did God come into existence?..just curious??

shadeyinka:


Hello!!
It is a question that will baffle both Theists and Atheists for eternity! How did consciousness appeared from nowhere.

All we know is that the laws of the spirit are different from that which operates here in the physical rhelm.

LOL .
When we die, we might have a chance to ask God...who is your mummyLOL
[i][/i]

shadeyinka:


Sorry, your estimation of probability is way off. By my estimation (looking at things strictly from mathematical scientific point of view) only two God/gods prescribe a place of punishment like hell for ones deeds here on earth Jehovah and Allah. So, by estimation, it is like 50%...LOL

What about you? In this Russian Roulette, your chance is 0.0%

Scary!

shadeyinka:


This is wrong Physics bro!
There is energy-mass duality...no vacuum energy

EyeHateGod:

I m asking U Na ain't U the one that said vacuum is noting? Forgeting that only applies to Matter so bro what is Energy?

butterfly88:
lol ...you see why science just can't do the trick when it comes to the topic of God?

shadeyinka:


At the point of the B-Bang, classical laws of physics was in operation.

Not every thing is quantum defined.

Even then, there is no quantum physics that explains event prior to the big bang.

Finally, Both Classical and Quantum Physics are valid within their frame of reference irrespective of time.

shadeyinka:


Is this not supposed to be an intelligent intellectual discussion? In such, we all need authorities to refer to.

Science and Logics are fair authorities relating both Theistsand Atheists together.

shadeyinka:




...And that is why Atheists cannot use science as a prove and evidence that there is no God.

butterfly88:
thanks bro..well which ever time you want to chose...but the laws of physics before the big bang?...is there any thing like that? Not yet I guess...for as far as I know the laws of physics breaks down at the singularity

Mind throwing more light??

shadeyinka:


That's exactly my point. The laws of Physics seems not to have existed from eternity past. The laws of Physics seems to begin at a point we can for want of better words time t=0.

If the laws of physics have an origin, it suggests that some non physical forces initiated them. As a Theist,bI attribute it to God

raphieMontella:

i agree wholeheartedly

sure

hypothetically this universe may not be all there is...

yes..the time of our universe may not be origin of Time itself...

raphieMontella:

yes..but i mean..he may decide to refer to no one...it doesnt make him more or less of an agnostic..

na!!..when it comes to religion...theists abandon their scientifically inclined brains and start thinking with their hearts...

butterfly88:
Okey bruh..you can be correct it is better to say the our universe with all it grandeur is the handiwork of knowledge and consciousness...one can't expect a child to draw the monalisa by randomly moving his pen on the paper

shadeyinka:
Newton's first law of motion - sometimes referred to as the law of inertia states that:


This brings the question: At time t=0 (before the big bang), was space constituent static? Expanding universe actually show that at a time, the universe must essentially be a "point object".

If that is true, how come an "expansion of the universe" was initiated without an "external " cause?

Sorry, my understanding of Basic Physics is limited.

It takes a greater Faith being an Atheist!

Weah96:


Is it possible for natural events to contradict the dear leader Newton? Before rushing to conclusions, you must first evaluate even the most ridiculous possibilities.

SirWere:

So does the Greek myths

The eyptians

The Norse.

Shintoists.


Even buddhism has a version of hell.


Besides; You're STILL hedging a bet.







And a quick question: So even if one lives a good life; he would STILL go to hell?

shadeyinka:


I didn't intend to crucify him in any way. No offence intended.

But your second point:
Can you help that as a Theist? The rules of the spirit and that of science are different. Even though the rules are different, it doesn't invalidate their validity in their frame of reference.

Its like an aguement between Classical and Quantum physics. The solution is to acknowledge that the two positions are valid within their frame of reference.

I have been fairly scientific haven't I?

shadeyinka:


Sorry Bro if it looks like that. I am listening to you, I guess we look at the same things through different portals.

I just want to show that if the Science we believe in so much has GAPS and uncertainties, should we gamble with our eternity based on it?
If I die today and discover that there is no God and no Eternity, what would i have lost?
On the other hand, if You die in your good old ripe Age and discover that God exists, hell exists and life still exists, what would you gain?

Jesus Saves

shadeyinka:
Newton's first law of motion - sometimes referred to as the law of inertia states that:


This brings the question: At time t=0 (before the big bang), was space constituent static? Expanding universe actually show that at a time, the universe must essentially be a "point object".

If that is true, how come an "expansion of the universe" was initiated without an "external " cause?

Sorry, my understanding of Basic Physics is limited.

It takes a greater Faith being an Atheist!

raphieMontella:

you have been scientific...to a good extent..

styca:


Well it then means that you're taking the safe route and believing in your God out of fear and not because you are sure.

And in your thinking, what if your God is actually not the right God, What happens when you die?

You see, you would have still lost.

styca:


Your premise and conclusions are very way out of line.
Here let me point out the fallacies in your argument first:

1.At t= 0, X= 0. This is so because BEFORE the big bang space and time does not exist.
2. If X= 0. Then, there's no "space constituents" to talk about in the first instance.

'Expanding universe actually show that at a time, the universe must essentially be a "point object".'- I agree with this postulation. Using Regressive processes can speculate on "point object".

However, you goofed again when you made this statement: '...how come an "expansion of the universe" was initiated without an "external " cause?'

The universe (Space and time) came to be AFTER the big bang. The expanding universe we observe today, is due to the exploding
(outward propulsion) of the "point object".

I hope you see what I'm seeing. If you want to explain your God's existence, explain him without trying to use a quasi-physics theory and what not.

A more plausible question should have been, what triggered the big bang?