shadeyinka:


The point is that you should attempt explaining what happened when the fifth seal was opened.

JW I know have interpretation for what happened when each seal was opened. I just want to know how you interpret the fifth seal opening.

shadeyinka:


You have a point with Mt 18:9. A vision.

Even though, I am tempted to say the vision meant "what they saw" but I wouldn't

However, if it was a vision, was it real? ..or a figment of their imagination?


If it was real, then what happened was that they had a glimpse of God the spirit rhelm and it doesn't invalidate my argument!

shadeyinka:



You still don't get it! If I destroy my Neigbours car, does it mean I mangled it or annihilate it?

The definitions and deductions stands even though you didn't respond to them.

shadeyinka:


@bolded was not referring to you. I was referring to the Catholics who have the doctrine of purgatory


I guess humans being what we are, we interpret the scriptures to suite our bias.

It is impossible to explain away Hell or the lake of Fire from the scriptures. There will still be that scripture that will not go away..

If the righteous receive eternal peace and joy for the 100 years they spent on earth.

The ungodly will also receive eternal torment for the years they spend on earth.

Therefore Jesus WARNED
Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This warning makes sense only if
What man can do (kill the body) is different from what God can do to a man (destroy both body and soul in hell)

If killing the body results into an unconscious state
AND
God destroying the body and soul also results to annihilation (unconscious state)

Then, there Exist no Reason to FEAR God!

We want the God who is LOVE but deny the GOD who is JUST

Peacefullove:
@ solite3

You know I won't swallow all your Gabbage without scrutinizing it ,

you said when a man dies , judgement follows immediately .


pls tell me why was the daughter of Jairus not judged immediately she died ? why was Lazarus of Bethany not judged immediately he died for good four days ? why was the son of the widow of Main not judged immediately he died ?


answer me , this are real cases of people who actually died and experience death in your bible .

solite3:
Jesus has the power to bring the dead back to life. Didn't you read Isaiah where one of the mission of the messiah is to set the prisoners free? Only God has the power to condemn or to acquaint.

Wilgrea7:



lemme understand something... person die manage go heaven... u con resurrect am say wetin happen??

Wilgrea7:


you misunderstand me.. God's final destruction (second death) doesn't take u into an unconscious state.. it destroys in the sense that u cease to exist.. no atom of u is left.. that's what the scripture means when it said it leaves neither root or branch.
God is just.. very just.. punishing someone for eternity for sins he committed in about 30 years isn't just.. it isn't just to punish someone who told one lie and hitler with the same punishment for ever and ever and ever and ever.. when Jesus comes he will reward us according to our works..
please understand that scripture.. u will either be punished or rewarded based on things you've done. Hitler and other murderers and even petty liars will all be punished according to what they've done..
that punishment is just. and the end of the wicked remains destruction.
God is just
God is always just

solite3:
these are your theory man not what the bible says.

Wilgrea7:



i posted links... do well to go through them before u conclude that its my doctrine.. eternal Burning was never a bible doctrine

RabbaRabbi:



can you prove how eternal burning is not part of the bible's teaching?

Wilgrea7:


oga follow the links first na... all these questions ure asking were addressed in the links... haba.. wetin sef??

RabbaRabbi:

lollllzzz... didn't see the link nahh

Wilgrea7:


you misunderstand me.. God's final destruction (second death) doesn't take u into an unconscious state.. it destroys in the sense that u cease to exist.. no atom of u is left.. that's what the scripture means when it said it leaves neither root or branch.
God is just.. very just.. punishing someone for eternity for sins he committed in about 30 years isn't just.. it isn't just to punish someone who told one lie and hitler with the same punishment for ever and ever and ever and ever.. when Jesus comes he will reward us according to our works..
please understand that scripture.. u will either be punished or rewarded based on things you've done. Hitler and other murderers and even petty liars will all be punished according to what they've done..
that punishment is just. and the end of the wicked remains destruction.
God is just
God is always just

Mat 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell

shadeyinka:



The case of Moses and the Burning Bush is just an example proof that Fire could burn and not annihilate a "combustible material"

What is the difference:
Annihilation and Physical Death state?

In both cases according to JW doctrine there is NO difference!

If there is no difference, then:

.

Becomes meaningless!

Peacefullove:



HOW DOES this answers my earlier Question , tell me ?

I asked you

" am still examining your claim . when a man dies , lying helpless in the casket , how can you still claim such a person is still alive ? "

Peacefullove:

you went ahead to quote the fifth seal which is not a literal but symbolic verse . therefore since that passage is not meant to be taken at face value ( it also means you guys don't go to mansions in heaven but are crowded under an ALTAR ) , its a FUTILE attempt at answering me .

so the question still stands !

am not explaining anything . its meant to be interpreted ! and their are various interpretation among xtians . so do your research , what is VIVIDLY clear is its not to be taken at face value same is true of other seals.

solite3:
Jesus has the power to bring the dead back to life. Didn't you read Isaiah where one of the mission of the messiah is to set the prisoners free? Only God has the power to condemn or to acquaint.

RabbaRabbi:



can you prove how eternal burning is not part of the bible's teaching?

shadeyinka:


A person can kill the Body but cannot kill/destroy the soul: implication, a mans soul lives on after death.

If man can also destroy the soul in by execution, then the scripture below makes no sense.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

solite3:
Jesus has the power to bring the dead back to life. Didn't you read Isaiah where one of the mission of the messiah is to set the prisoners free? Only God has the power to condemn or to acquaint
.

MizJanet:


John 3:16 said eternal life is for those who belive in Jesus , Romans 6:23 says it a gift from the bible God . man, there is eternal life for those in hell too since their life will be eternal ?

Peacefullove:


o boy , Lazarus of Bethany na prisoner too ? I thought him be righteous man

I didn't ask you the rubbish u post above , if according to your postulation judgement is immediately after death , why was Lazarus of Bethany, Daughter of Jairus . real cases of someone who died not judged immediately they died ?

RabbaRabbi:


john 11:41-42; and Jesus said, father I thank you for you have always answer me.. I am saying this for the benefit of the people that they might believe that you sent me...

In the case of Lazarus dead, God was using that medium to show people that Jesus is the messiah

in verse 4 of John 11, Jesus said, this will not end in dead, No, but that the son of God be glorified...

In lazarus case, Jesus going to show the world that he is the messiah that many have been expecting...






Your moniker is cool.... But it seems you're a troublesome person

RabbaRabbi:


you got me wrong... I never said people in hell will burn to ashes...

I was only rephrasing a statement someone made... That God will burn sinners to ashes...

I asked him, how is that true, when the bible says sinners will be in hell forever?

I hope you understand now...?

Peacefullove:


oga , that girl make a very salient point . if sinners will be in hell forever ( for someone to be forever , his life must not be temporary but eternal ) , does that not automatically mean they have everlasting life !! ?

Peacefullove:
Its obvious many of you just carry bible up and down on Sundays , not knowing even the content of your so cherished holy book . with this Matthew 10:28 you quote , just get ready for a fresh encounter !!!



and a book from God should not contradict itself , For your information MEN KILL/DESTROY soul.
in the bible.

" And he { Joshua} took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; " Joshua 10 vs 39 .

didn't men kill souls here ?

so called immortal souls been destroyed by sword . na wa !




O boy , according to this verse which you yourself quote! the BODY of a man also go to hell as shown by the statement ' BODY in hell ' , but nowadays body end up in the mortuary not some imaginary hell now tell me , was Jesus lying here ? How many bodies have left mortuary for hell ? don't you think this verse against the ideology of body doesn't go to hell ?

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water

RabbaRabbi:
It's really hard to keep the thoughts of hell. Neither does that make it less or non-existing.

Even some so called churches are gradually wiping off the thoughts of hell from the mind of the members in the name of not getting them scared. Hell is also a piece of work which the bible highlighted on mostly.

Why does hell exist? And where?

I know you want some answers to questions that have been bothering you. Then am here for that.

Ask me your questions(based on hell: why, where and for what)

shadeyinka:


Lake of Fire is another way of Saying "Gods Refuse Dump". If anyone's name is notbfound in the book of life, he is thrown into Gods refuse Dump!

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Infinite punishment:
Is it right or just if God were to force a Human being (who chooses not to obey God for say 100years of his life) to an eternity under His rule?

A human being is a spirit! Spirits cannot be annihilated... Spirits exist forever. In the spirit rhelm/eternity, time doesn't exist. It is just meaningless.

This means, there is not difference between 5 minutes and 5 decades for time simply doesn't exist.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

shadeyinka:


1Pt3:19-20
.

Who are these spirits in prison?
Aren't these spirits supposed to be dead and unconscious?
How come Christ preached to those who "cannot hear"?


I give up.

people like you are programmed to think in one way direction . running around in circles .


you earlier quote Matthew 10 vs 28 which raise two salient points

1: men cannot kill soul, but Joshua in the same bible destroy Souls Joshua 10 vs 39 , imagine Joshua destroying the so called immoral souls with swords I can't laugh abeg


2. the same verse insist that the Body will be in hell ! therefore how many bodies have disappeared from mortuary to hell according to this passage ? or Jesus is lying ?


kindly address this .

We shall all die one day and the truth will be made plain

shadeyinka:


When a person dies, he goes to Sheol (Hebrew for the place of the dead)

From the new testament, we see that there is a division of Sheol into two:
Abraham's Blossom: the place where Abraham is
Hell/Outer Darkness: a place of torment.
There is a gulf between these two compartments of Sheol.

There is the lake of fire. No human is there right now till after resurrection!


I guess you believe that only one kind of death exist. How do you explain this scripture since God cannot lie:

Gen2:17
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

When Adam & Eve ate from the tree, did they die?
Was Gods word broken?

How do you symbolically explain away the reaching of Jesus and the Rich man? Was Jesus preaching a heresy?

dolphinheart:


1.what goes to hell? body , soul, spirit, the whole three mentioned or 2 of them
2. where do the rest go if only 1 or 2 of the 3 go to hell.
3. what is hell.

shadeyinka:


Would you please explain this scripture if your definition of death is not myopic:
with power.

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Moses and Elijah:
Were they resurrected?

Death is a disconnection of union in a Living Being.!