You are still missing the point. A culture NEED NOT build empires to assimilate another culture.

A culture need to be big to be bigger to assimilate a smaller one.
Because I know you are already seeing a big SE Igbo in your Yoruba mind, when such wasn't in existence as of the time in discuss.

In the era in discuss, there was no Igbo culture. Every Igbo group saw itself as a distinct entity.

Ogba had to contend with Abohs(Ukwuani) throughout their pre colonial live, they fought many wars with Abohs, won some and lost some, it was a stale mate, as Aboh couldn't control Ogba.

The Anambra, Enugu, Ebonyi men were not aware of existence of Ogba before the arrival if the British, except maybe the wondering Aros and the Blacksmith Awkas who wandered all over non Igbo speaking lands of the East and Igbo speaking parts.

Unless you state clearly how Ndiigbo assimilated Bini speaking Ogba, without assimilating Ogoni, Andoni, Engenni, Epie,,Ekoi people, I am afraid you are making up impossible scenarios.

CandyDiamond:

You as a Yoruba man bearing Yoruba names and speaking yoruba,are going to proudly say you are a Bini man. Leave Victor Moses or Goodluck Jonathan own they all have native names,they just choose to go with English names.

Yes I am Yoruba and I bear my Yoruba names proudly. However, the name is not the all and be all of cultural identity. The late OJB Jezreel's real names are Babatunde Okungbowa. Pure Yoruba names but he was a proud son of Agbor in Delta state.

M brother I tire oo...

eezeribe:
The eyeglass na to see spirits

CandyDiamond:

You have started defending your Yoruba side of view of oba,but you people will go about telling people that are Igbo that they are not Igbo,but if people say that Ileja,Owori,Egun that have their own languages are not Yorubas you people be shouting and coercing them to be Yorubas,any Igboid person is Igbo stop feigning ignorance and twisting facts.

Of course I will defend my Yoruba culture and people - who is stopping you from defending Igbos? Defending your culture is not the same as insisting that an entire cultural group most be forced to identify with you against their will. I can guarantee you that if the Ilejas, Oworis and Eguns wake up one morning and say they are not Yorubas, we Yorubas will not miss a single night of sleep. But until then all you have is conjectures and wishful thinking. I have NOTHING against the Igbos. However, I value fairness above most things. So, if some tribe believe they are not Igbos they should be respected and not castigated. That is only fair and most fair-minded people will agree. Do you?

" Everything? Nobody with a basic knowledge of human culture will make such a claim. Think about it and thank me later".

Everything. I have nothing to thank you for.


"How do you know? Have you ever studied the Ogba culture? How can you be sure there is no such evidence if you have not looked for it yourself? It appears you start with a conclusion (that the Ogbas are of Igbo origin) and isolate your thinking around that claim."

I had looked it up,and I had simply stated why Ogba couldn't have been Bini speaking originally in my first reply to you.
You are the Yoruba man totally out of your depths in Igbo and Ogba history, yet felt the need to meddle into a topic you know little about. You are the one with a pre conceived conclusion.

AkinPhysicist:


This is what some Bini people say. We Yorubas disagree. The title of King among the Binis has always been Ogiso. The title Oba was imported (together with Bini's very first Oba) by the Binis from Yorubaland.

Until the the end of colonialism, there was not a single King in Yorubaland that goes by the title "Oba", it was always, Oluwo, Owo, Ooni, Alaffin, Olu.

The only Oba the British met in Yorubaland was the ones installed by Oba of Bini, like Oba of Lagos.

It doesn't take a soothesayer to know that Oba is a Bini word.

Always the etymology of Oduduwa if reconstructed, leads to a Bini name, "Osazuwa".

Rationally speaking, Oduduwa and Oba are of Bini origin and this is the part of history the Binis subscribe to.

It's only out of Ego that Yorubas will exist that Oduduwa descended from the sky, or from the East( Sudan/ Egypt) instead of admitting to the rational conclusion that Oduduwa came from East of Yorubaland, which Bini represents.

AkinPhysicist:


Of course I will defend my Yoruba culture and people - who is stopping you from defending Igbos? Defending your culture is not the same as insisting that an entire cultural group most be forced to identify with you against their will. I can guarantee you that if the Ilejas, Oworis and Eguns wake up one morning and say they are not Yorubas, we Yorubas will not miss a single night of sleep. But until then all you have is conjectures and wishful thinking. I have NOTHING against the Igbos. However, I value fairness above most things. So, if some tribe believe they are not Igbos they should be respected and not castigated. That is only fair and most fair-minded people will agree. Do you?

They have said that they are not Yorubas but you Yorubas are insisting that are Yorubas,Egun,Aworis,Ilejas,okun languages cannot be heard by Yorubas,even Ijebus claim that they are not Yorubas that they migrated from Sudan,that is why Yorubas hate them so much. Igbos are not castigating anybody from been Igbo but denying it,it is you Yorubas that is carrying it on your head day and night on various social media, writing how chibuike Amaechi,okechukwu oliseh is not Igbo despite bearing Igbo names and speaking Igbo,what you people tend to gain from it is what I don't know. You will not see any Igbo person writing how Begun,Aworis,ilejes,okun are not Yorubas

Igboid:
Languages go into extinction by conquest. When a superior group conquers an inferior one and imposes its language and culture on them over centuries.

Yes. Languages CAN go into extinction by conquest. But - but conquest is not the only means.

Igboid:

This was how various tribes in modern Spain, Portugal and France were conquered by the Romans, who imposed their Language on them, leading to extinction of many ancient languages there and the evolution of pigeon Roman languages like French, Spanish, Portuguese, Etc, which is why we call them Romance languages.

You have just listed possible examples of extinction of languages by conquest. You are yet to show that this is the ONLY means through which languages become extinct. Let me ask you a simple question (Yes or No) - Are there languages in Nigeria that have gone extinct over the last hundred or so years?

Igboid:

In absence of a conquest, invasion and subjugation, human tend to hold unto their language, as we can see with the myriads of Languages existing in Cross River North senatorial zone, where it's said that you will almost see new language for each 20km traveled.

Yes. They might tend to hold on to but apparently not always successfully. That is the obvious point that you have so far been unwilling to accept.

Igboid:
Everyword rooted in antiquity in Ogba is Igboid and not Edoid.

I doubt you know this as a fact - I have given you several opportunities to describe your connection to the Ogbas other than claiming they are Igbos.

AkinPhysicist:


Yes I am Yoruba and I bear my Yoruba names proudly. However, the name is not the all and be all of cultural identity. The late OJB Jezreel's real names are Babatunde Okungbowa. Pure Yoruba names but he was a proud son of Agbor in Delta state.

Another Irrational point. OjB people speak an Igboid language, so I fail to see the relevance of his name to our discussion.

Akalaka and his people bear Both Igbo names and speak Igboid language.

This your example would hold, if Akalaka though with Igbo name, but his Ogba people are Edo speaking. Then we can say that name alone is not enough to classify a person.

So once again, Apples and Oranges brother.

The only example that could fit into your argument is that of Apoi Ijaws in Ondo state, but then again, Apoi Ijaws already have Ijaw in their name, indicating their origin, even though they are now Yoruba speaking.

DifferentBoy1:



We no b Igbo... Period!!!
Na so Igbo make Opobo and Bonny forget to speak their language (Ibani), come go speak Igbo, if not for just one community left still speaking Ibani... The legendary Finima community.

The land is Igboland and since you yourself are not Igbo the Atlantic Ocean or creeks is loading for you

Igboid:


Do you really think so?

Oyigbo has Oil, yet are proud Igbos.
Ika has no oil, yet the "We be Bini" story there is stronger than kiliwi wachukwu.

It will take more than just their oil drying up to reconcile these people back to the fold.

Though I believe that the Post 1970 oil politics of the FG played a big role in their current psyche.

It will take a strong leadership in SE, whose single aim is the unification of all Igbo speaking clans under one realm. This leadership must be a progressive forward looking one.
I'm yet to see one.

Id say you made some points in your analysis, the primary one being the fact that even if oil dries up, most Igboid groups will never be Igbo.

That said, i will love to point out that you arent exactly correct to say that pre 1970, igboid groups who now have an independent recognition identified themselves as Igbos.
In making an analysis, one needs to acknowledge a difference between what was written in the book and the actual truth of the matter. Put both into perspective.

Your claims of Igboids being igbos pre1970 is from colonial publications/drafts/whatever. In those, "seemingly similar" ethnicities were rounded up into the nearest singular ethnicity/tribe. The British weren't interested in exploring the bits and peices, similarities and dissimilarities, neither did they care for the peoples history and the implications thereof, but were only interested in doing a classification roughwork basically for colonial ease of administration.

Historically, how does the Ogbaman, the Ikwerreman, the Ekpeye see himself? Have they at any point in the colonial times made attempt to be recognised as separate entities from Igbos, or have they always considered themselves Igbos from the colonial times only to change after the war. Is is possible to forsake your tribe? Ask yourself these questions, research on these and do not join the bandwagon of "oil is the reason". The british writing that Ogba/Ekpeye/Ikwerre are Igbos is a british fabrication, what did the people say about themselves then and now.

A tribesmen is a tribesman. Their pain is his, their glory is his.

[quote author=AkinPhysicist post=50590372]

Yes. Languages CAN go into extinction by conquest. But - but conquest is not the only means.


Yes, it's not the only process, but you have so far failed to state how the other process could have tipped Ogba into totally abandoning Bini language for Igbo language when smaller groups like Engenni, Epie, Abua,,Degema held unto theirs.. You have at best decided to remain as vague as possible. Making generalized statements without importing them to show how they relate to Ogba-Igbo relationship. You are clearly out of your depth here.

You have just listed possible examples of extinction of languages by conquest. You are yet to show that this is the ONLY means through which languages become extinct. Let me ask you a simple question (Yes or No) - Are there languages in Nigeria that have gone extinct over the last hundred or so years?

Are there languages which have gone into extinction within the same Igbo influence zone( Eastern region) that were assimilated by Ndiigbo totally to serve as a template to what could have happened to Ogba? No

So you resorted to importing events that happened in non Igbo influence area to serve as a template in an Igbo influence area, No?


Yes. They might tend to hold on to but apparently not always successfully. That is the obvious point that you have so far been unwilling to accept.

Still making generalized Statements. Are we not?


I doubt you know this as a fact - I have given you several opportunities to describe your connection to the Ogbas other than claiming they are Igbos.

No, I can not meet you half way at the wrong way, you clearly lack simple knowledge of factors at play in the traditional and cultural influence zone of Ndiigbo, hence why you keep making generalized Statements and importing alien systems to work on an Igbo influence area.

This is epic fail from you. Try again later.

CandyDiamond:

Why are they bearing Igbo names,the same market days as Igbos and they speak Igbo. They need to examine their Bini descendants issue because Bini people don't bear Igbo names and they don't speak igbo they speak Bini,eshan,etc

They want us to believe that Chibuike Amaechi's real name is AbdulAziz Muhammad.
He is really Muslim from the desert north

And lastly when he talks to his wife obiajulu they speak in Hausa bc they are "not Igbo" as these fools always say here.

And further this former governor of rivers named his children Obinna and chimkamkpa to reinforce his "Fulani" background

24SEVEN:


Id say you made some points in your analysis, the primary one being the fact that even if oil dries up, most Igboid groups will never be Igbo.

That said, i will love to point out that you arent exactly correct to say that pre 1970, igboid groups who now have an independent recognition identified themselves as Igbos.
In making an analysis, one needs to acknowledge a difference between what was written in the book and the actual truth of the matter. Put both into perspective.

Your claims of Igboids being igbos pre1970 is from colonial publications/drafts/whatever. In those, "seemingly similar" ethnicities were rounded up into the nearest singular ethnicity/tribe. The British weren't interested in exploring the bits and peices, similarities and dissimilarities, neither did they care for the peoples history and the implications thereof, but were only interested in doing a classification roughwork basically for colonial ease of administration.

Historically, how does the Ogbaman, the Ikwerreman, the Ekpeye see himself? Have they at any point in the colonial times made attempt to be recognised as separate entities from Igbos, or have they always considered themselves Igbos from the colonial times only to change after the war. Is is possible to forsake your tribe? Ask yourself these questions, research on these and do not join the bandwagon of "oil is the reason". The british writing that Ogba/Ekpeye/Ikwerre are Igbos is a british fabrication, what did the people say about themselves then and now.

A tribesmen is a tribesman. Their pain is his, their glory is his.

No group was known as Igbo before the whites came. We all existed as distinct groups, like Ngwa, Asa, Ndoki, Etche, Ikwerre,Ogba,Ekpeye, Orrata, Izzi, Ezza,Abohs etc. No one was Igbo.

It was the British that saw that all these people spoke a mutually intelligible dialect continuum of a language they termed "Igbo". Ibo became a generic term for all these groups. So if you see slave records and the ethnic groups the Slaves identified with in the Eastern region, you will see things like Ndoki-Ibo, Omuma- Ibo, Ungwa( Ngwa)-Ibo, Isucuato(Isukwuato)- Ibo, Etche-Ibo, Ikwerre-Ibo, etc.

No one was really Igbo. We all had distinct clans we saw as our ethnic groups before the Igbo union.
So, it was not a case of the British adding the Ekpeye, Ogba, Ikwerre, to a people who already called themselves Igbo.

We were all identified as Igbo same time. And so, we all commenced the process of unification same time. The Igbo Union was full of cracks, and so when the British left, the job of filling these cracks fell on the likes of Zik, Ibiam, Okpara, Osadebeyetc. This process was still on when the Civil war ensued and the FG capitalized on the already existing fractures to destroy every effort at unification we had achieved so far then, it was important that the Igbo unification be undone for the sake of oil politics and to ensure that future agitation for secession by Igbos be frustrated.

Igboid:


Until the the end of colonialism, there was not a single King in Yorubaland that goes by the title "Oba", it was always, Oluwo, Owo, Ooni, Alaffin, Olu. The only Oba the British met in Yorubaland was the ones installed by Oba of Bini, like Oba of Lagos.

Yet another example of someone who lacks basic understanding of Yoruba culture. Let me educate you son. In Yoruba the word Oba means King. In our culture, there is only one (Spiritually and physically) Oba in each town. So its culturally tautological for an Oba to refer to him self as Oba. Rather they used titles that usually indicate the region over which they rule over - hence names like Oluwo of Owo etc. Some of the other names are deeply rooted in spiritual nature of their throne like Ooni etc. The term Oba is usually used by the people of a town to refer to their King but specific terms like Ooni, Alaffin etc. are utilized by other Obas or spiritual leaders like babalawo to identify the King. This specific titles are seen to carry more power than the generic Oba title hence their usage. In addition, names with Oba prefixes/suffixes are some of the oldest names you will ever find in Yoruba land.

Igboid:
It doesn't take a soothesayer to know that Oba is a Bini word.

How do you know its a Bini word if you don't even have basic knowledge of Yoruba culture? Read the above for your education

Igboid:
Always the etymology of Oduduwa if reconstructed, leads to a Bini name, "Osazuwa".

And why do you need to reconstruct it if its really a Bini name? Shouldn't it be able to stand on its own without reconstruction? . And by the way is Odu'a - that Oduduwa is for common folks who don't know the culture like you.

Igboid:
Rationally speaking, Oduduwa and Oba are of Bini origin and this is the part of history the Binis subscribe to.

Supporting some alternate version of Yoruba history to spite the Yoruba race is not necessarily rational

Igboid:

It's only out of Ego that Yorubas will exist that Oduduwa descended from the sky, or from the East( Sudan/ Egypt) instead of admitting to the rational conclusion that Oduduwa came from East of Yorubaland, which Bini represents.

Yet another evidence of your lack of basic understanding of Yoruba culture. You are confusing Odu'a the man (physical) and Odu'a the spirit being (or essence). In our culture, every person has an essence. For (another) example Yemoja (is a Yoruba ancestor) who essence is believed to be connected the ocean/river. And even if you still cannot understand this - aren't you Igbos mostly Christians? Don't you believe that Jesus (your Jewish god) floated into the sky from some grave in Israel? So why are you so surprise that other cultures (that even predate Jesus) have similar symbolic motifs? As per the so call Eastern (or Mecca) origin of O'dua - this is a falsehood started by the original Muslim Yorubas (the predate the first Hausa or Fulani Muslims by decades if not a century) who were trying to hijack our culture for their own selfish religious purpose.

A great diversity of peoples brought to the Americas from the Niger Delta and
Cross River Basin were labeled by merchants as Carabalí, as Cuban historian Deschamps
discovered: “The carabalí. The tribes brought to Cuba under this denomination
are innumerable . . . part of those [“carabalí’] who founded cabildos responded
to the following denominations: Abalo, Acocuá, Agro, Apapá, Bibí, Bogre, Bogre
Isuama, Abate Singlava, Brícamo, Ecunaso, Ibo Induri, Isicuato, Isiegue, Isuama,
Isuama Aballa Ocuite, Isuama Ibi, Isuama Isiegue, Isueche, Oquella, Ososo, Ososo
Eche, Ososo Omuma, Oxó, Ugri, Unigini, Aballa Otopa, Isuama Umofina, Isuama
Osulerisna, Orú, Elugo, Orate, Bané, Yudusi.”




And the quote is from afrocubaweb.com/ivormiller/IvorArticle.pdf


24, the above is a list of tribes that were shipped to Cuba from Niger Delta and Cross River basins, majority of which were people you would call Igbos today. But only one of them
Identified as Ibos there, ie "Ibo Induri"

Majority of the slaves Identified as their respective clans as their tribe, probably because they never saw themselves as belonging to anyother larger group other than their respective clans.

Names like Isucuato there, is Isuikwuto town in Abia state today,
See Oru= Orlu today. Yet then they all saw their clans as independent tribes.

Yet another example of someone who lacks basic understanding of Yoruba culture. Let me educate you son. In Yoruba the word Oba means King. In our culture, there is only one (Spiritually and physically) Oba in each town. So its culturally tautological for an Oba to refer to him self as Oba. Rather they used titles that usually indicate the region over which they rule over - hence names like Oluwo of Owo etc. Some of the other names are deeply rooted in spiritual nature of their throne like Ooni etc. The term Oba is usually used by the people of a town to refer to their King but specific terms like Ooni, Alaffin etc. are utilized by other Obas or spiritual leaders like babalawo to identify the King. This specific titles are seen to carry more power than the generic Oba title hence their usage. In addition, names with Oba prefixes/suffixes are some of the oldest names you will ever find in Yoruba land.

Trash! Historical fact is that no single Yoruba was had the name Oba attached to his name as at when the British arrived our shores. Even in Igboland, Eze is called Kings, yet Eze is usually attached to the name of Kings. None whatsoever in Yorubaland. The only one with Oba attached to his name, Oba of Lagos was installed by the Oba of Bini. This historical fact is sacrosanct and no amount of verbose narrative will obliterate it.
Binis also have names with Oba, eg Obaze, Obaseki, so you have no point.



How do you know its a Bini word if you don't even have basic knowledge of Yoruba culture? Read the above for your education

Because I had read Bini argument and Yorubas own,being a man guided by rationality, it didn't take long to know who is saying the truth and who is lying.


And why do you need to reconstruct it if its really a Bini name? Shouldn't it be able to stand on its own without reconstruction? . And by the way is Odu'a - that Oduduwa is for common folks who don't know the culture like you.

Because, it's a name Yorubas call him, it's not a name Binis call him, and it has no meaning in Yoruba language.

Supporting some alternate version of Yoruba history to spite the Yoruba race is not necessarily rational

No. Just responding to a post I deemed to be presenting falsehood as facts, no offense.


Yet another evidence of your lack of basic understanding of Yoruba culture. You are confusing Odu'a the man (physical) and Odu'a the spirit being (or essence). In our culture, every person has an essence. For (another) example Yemoja (is a Yoruba ancestor) who essence is believed to be connected the ocean/river. And even if you still cannot understand this - aren't you Igbos mostly Christians? Don't you believe that Jesus (your Jewish god) floated into the sky from some grave in Israel? So why are you so surprise that other cultures (that even predate Jesus) have similar symbolic motifs? As per the so call Eastern (or Mecca) origin of O'dua - this is a falsehood started by the original Muslim Yorubas (the predate the first Hausa or Fulani Muslims by decades if not a century) who were trying to hijack our culture for their own selfish religious purpose.

Trash! Yoruba culture was clear that Oduduwa fell from the sky. Binis said he came from Biniland, Bini perspective makes more sense.

.

Igboid:


Trash! Yoruba culture was clear that Oduduwa fell from the sky. Binis said he came from Biniland, Bini perspective makes more sense.

Okay before I engage you further do the following: spend a few minutes to learn HOW to quote. Your quoting presentation is shambolic, difficult read and very far from tidy. If you can't master the simple act of quoting on Nairaland, how am I gonna take you seriously - biko learn fast.

Now let me continue your Yoruba culture education program.

Of course the Bini version makes more sense to you because nothing makes you Igbos happier than sticking it to the great Yoruba race.

Now, anybody (Yoruba, Bini or Igbo) that tells you that the great O'dua fell (as in physically) from the sky is someone who does not know Yoruba culture. Odu'a essence is of the sky does not mean O'dua fell from the sky.

Igboid:

Trash! Historical fact is that no single Yoruba was had the name Oba attached to his name as at when the British arrived our shores.

This is the most hilarious claim I have read on Nairaland in a long time Please do the following:

1. Provide this Historical 'fact'

2. What is so special about the name Oba and the arrival of the British.

Igboid:
Even in Igboland, Eze is called Kings, yet Eze is usually attached to the name of Kings. None whatsoever in Yorubaland. The only one with Oba attached to his name, Oba of Lagos was installed by the Oba of Bini. This historical fact is sacrosanct and no amount of verbose narrative will obliterate it.
Binis also have names with Oba, eg Obaze, Obaseki, so you have no point.

So tell me this: what is the relationship between the way Igbos address their 'Kings' (in quote because Igbos don't have Kings - they only started copying Yorubas and others recently ) and the way Yorubas choose to address theirs?

Now, Yoruba names with OBA (just a few from the top of my head):
OBA-FEMI
OBA-RINDE
OBA-LARE
OBA-SOLAPE
OBA-TOTOSIN
OBA-FUNKE
ADE-OBA
OBA-DELE
OBANJOKO
OBAWOLE
OBAYANA
OBATAIYE
OBA-AIKU

I dare ANY authentic Bini person to even try to match this meagre number - I double-dare you. ;DThe name Oba is as Yoruba as BABALAWO

Igboid:

Because I had read Bini argument and Yorubas own,being a man guided by rationality, it didn't take long to know who is saying the truth and who is lying.

I have doubts that you are guided by even a smidgen of rationality. You seem to me to be the typical Ipob whose only source of pleasure is picking fights with Yorubas on nairaland

Igboid:
Because, it's a name Yorubas call him, it's not a name Binis call him, and it has no meaning in Yoruba language.

I am amused by your ignorance. If you don't know ask - stop exposing your ignorance like this.
Just because you don't know the answer to a question does not mean their is no answer. In Yoruba Odu'a means the one who endowed us with our way of life (or Culture).

Igboid:

No. Just responding to a post I deemed to be presenting falsehood as facts, no offense.

No offense taken - I am aware of your kind of sub-par level of reasoning common on Nairaland.

DifferentBoy1:



We no b Igbo... Period!!!
Na so Igbo make Opobo and Bonny forget to speak their language (Ibani), come go speak Igbo, if not for just one community left still speaking Ibani... The legendary Finima community.

No dey accuse us of wetin you no fit prove.

Igboid:

Yes, it's not the only process, but you have so far failed to state how the other process could have tipped Ogba into totally abandoning Bini language for Igbo language when smaller groups like Engenni, Epie, Abua,,Degema held unto theirs.. You have at best decided to remain as vague as possible. Making generalized statements without importing them to show how they relate to Ogba-Igbo relationship. You are clearly out of your depth here.

Don't be silly - nobody knows with certainty how the Ogbas were assimilated (if they were as they determinedly claim) by the Igbo culture. The absence of written records leave us with nothing more than hypothesis either for or against. The best thing we can go by is the oral tradition of the people themselves - in the case of the Ogbas their tradition is that of a Bini origin not Igbo. Now, since, you agree conquest is not the only possible cultural vehicle towards assimilation, then you have (by your own words) debunked your earlier claim that it is impossible that the Ogbas were assimilated by a non-conquest tribe like the Igbos. Also, just because one tribe survived a particular type of assimilation does not mean that some other tribe would also survive - cultural forces are complicated and can be very difficult to predict.

Igboid:

So you resorted to importing events that happened in non Igbo influence area to serve as a template in an Igbo influence area, No?

This is rich coming from someone who was using examples in Spain, Portugal etc. I am still talking about other examples in Nigeria but you on the other hand have cross the Atlantic to the heart of Europe. Remove the log in your eyes son. Moreover, cultural forces are universal - there is NOTHING special about the Igbos that makes them immuned to the consequences of socio-cultural interactions.

In addition, I noticed you conveniently side stepped that vital question. Now the answer is: Yes there are languages in Africa and Nigeria that have gone extinct within the last ten decades.And these are languages that disappeared because the natives stopped speaking them - as a result of the encroachment of a more dominant language. It happens hence it will be an act of gross intellectual dishonesty to dismiss the claims of the Ogba people who said that was what happened to them.

Igboid:
Still making generalized Statements. Are we not?

. I will love to be more specific but unlike you I was not there several hundred years ago when the ancient Ogbas and Igbos were interacting with each other.

Igboid:
No, I can not meet you half way at the wrong way, you clearly lack simple knowledge of factors at play in the traditional and cultural influence zone of Ndiigbo, hence why you keep making generalized Statements and importing alien systems to work on an Igbo influence area.

Yes. I forgot Igbos are so 'special' that the universal forces of cultural interactions does not apply to them. Now, lets not stop there, lets remind the world that the laws of Gravity does not apply to people of Igbo descent either.

Igboid:
This is epic fail from you. Try again later.

This was never a contest for me. But even if that is what you wanna call it, ANYONE with a functioning brain can clearly see that I absolutely decimated you. And I didn't have to copy and paste anything. Just pure logic and reasoning poured the proverbial cold water on your carelessly formulated assertions.

AkinPhysicist:

This is the most hilarious claim I have read on Nairaland in a long time Please do the following:

1. Provide this Historical 'fact'

2. What is so special about the name Oba and the arrival of the British.




So tell me this: what is the relationship between the way Igbos address their 'Kings' (in quote because Igbos don't have Kings - they only started copying Yorubas and others recently ) and the way Yorubas choose to address theirs?

Now, Yoruba names with OBA (just a few from the top of my head):
OBA-FEMI
OBA-RINDE
OBA-LARE
OBA-SOLAPE
OBA-TOTOSIN
OBA-FUNKE
ADE-OBA
OBA-DELE
OBANJOKO
OBAWOLE
OBAYANA
OBATAIYE
OBA-AIKU

I dare ANY authentic Bini person to even try to match this meagre number - I double-dare you. ;DThe name Oba is as Yoruba as BABALAWO



I have doubts that you are guided by even a smidgen of rationality. You seem to me to be the typical Ipob whose only source of pleasure is picking fights with Yorubas on nairaland


I am amused by your ignorance. If you don't know ask - stop exposing your ignorance like this.
Just because you don't know the answer to a question does not mean their is no answer. In Yoruba Odu'a means the one who endowed us with our way of life (or Culture).



No offense taken - I am aware of your kind of sub-par level of reasoning common on Nairaland.

As usual your type descends into insults when outsmarted intellectually

Igboid:


Another Irrational point. OjB people speak an Igboid language, so I fail to see the relevance of his name to our discussion.

Akalaka and his people bear Both Igbo names and speak Igboid language. This your example would hold, if Akalaka though with Igbo name, but his Ogba people are Edo speaking. Then we can say that name alone is not enough to classify a person.

So once again, Apples and Oranges brother.

Calm down son. I was quoting your Ipob sister who could not believe that someone would bear an Igbo name and still claim to be of Bini origin. This is what happens when you jump on quotes without taking time to grasp the context. The Ogba people might have been Edo speaking but due to culturally assimilation their Edo dialect became extinct. This is a possibility that even you as Igbo-centric as you are cannot dismiss without stepping into the dung of intellectual dishonesty.

Igboid:

The only example that could fit into your argument is that of Apoi Ijaws in Ondo state, but then again, Apoi Ijaws already have Ijaw in their name, indicating their origin, even though they are now Yoruba speaking.

So (based on the above) one can argue that since the Ogba people do not have either Bini or Igbo in their name OGBA common sense would tell you that they should be allowed to choose their origin story without been demeaned and patronized. They have chosen Bini as their origin - I dare say let them be.

ThumbzTNA:





As usual your type descends into insults when outsmarted intellectually

Nairaland referee you are duly noted. Now go ahead and identify the areas were I was 'intellectually outsmarted.'

Rotimi got to a place he never dreamt he will reach in his life. Halleluyah

Akinphysicist seriously speaking you have no point trust me I am far from being an ipob

Igboid:
Why would Akalaka change his Edoid name to Igbo ones? What self preservation are you speaking of?

I wish I could ask Akalaka the same question. But I understand he died several centuries ago - which leaves us with no other options than to send someone to the other side to question the great Ogba ancestor. Are you willing to volunteer?

Igboid:

There was no Igbo empire in SE out to assimilate Ogba, even Ogba Edoid neighbors, the Engennis and Epies all still retained their Edoid languages.

Again, for the umpteenth time. Cultural assimilation does not require an 'empire.' All that is required is a dominant culture and language that could (under the right social-cultural/economic forces) lead to the extinction of not so dominant tribe. You in one of your post have even bragged about the INFLUENCE of the Igbo tribe in that general region.

Igboid:

You are simply creating a scenario that never existed out of thin air, to support your stand.

We are both presenting hypothesis since none of us was there when the Ogba community was founded several centuries ago. The difference between us is that I have the intellectual humility (and honesty) to accept this. You on the other hand insist that you claims (that run counter to those of the Ogbas) are absolutely true because of course you were there hundred of years ago when the Ogba community was founded.

Igboid:
Not even Ogba people speak of a lost Bini name.

Yet the same Ogba people makes it clear that they are Binis originally and not Igbo so stop splitting hairs here.

Igboid:
You are clearly fishing in shallow waters here.

Obviously still deeper than that dirty Aba gutter you have been trying to fish from the whole day.

RIZLER:
Akinphysicist seriously speaking you have no point trust me I am far from being an ipob

Go ahead 'enlighten' me with your 'superior' points sir.

Igboid:

I had looked it up,and I had simply stated why Ogba couldn't have been Bini speaking originally in my first reply to you.

You looked it up? where?! In the Ipob book of revisionist history? Otherwise provide your source or stop been silly. You are just making conjectures based on your understanding of culture which is largely driven by your Igbo-centric Ipob ideology. I have no problem with conjectures however you seem to be driven by a blind 'religious' certainty. The only way, you can be this certain is if you were there, several hundred years ago when these events took place. Since, I can easily prove that you were not alive at the time, then all you are blowing is smoke without fire.

Igboid:

You are the Yoruba man totally out of your depths in Igbo and Ogba history, yet felt the need to meddle into a topic you know little about. You are the one with a pre conceived conclusion.

Its funny how the Ogba people account of their history agrees with this Yoruba man's hypothesis. I wonder who is really out of their depths here?

Igboid:

There are many academic research on Ogba language and people by third parties. Non points towards Edo.

Please post this independent (Not Ipob-published) academic research. Thank you.