if only these rogues in government can remember that death awaits all mortals I think the country will be a much better place to live in.

Can't believe I left yesterday for unavoidable engagement and the Afonja started running amok with his Afonjaic ignorance.

Well, I'm back now. Prepare for some serious spanking.

AkinPhysicist:


Okay before I engage you further do the following: spend a few minutes to learn HOW to quote. Your quoting presentation is shambolic, difficult read and very far from tidy. If you can't master the simple act of quoting on Nairaland, how am I gonna take you seriously - biko learn fast.

Now let me continue your Yoruba culture education program.

Of course the Bini version makes more sense to you because nothing makes you Igbos happier than sticking it to the great Yoruba race.

Now, anybody (Yoruba, Bini or Igbo) that tells you that the great O'dua fell (as in physically) from the sky is someone who does not know Yoruba culture. Odu'a essence is of the sky does not mean O'dua fell from the sky.

This is the hallmark of intellectual laziness, ad hominem attacks. Anyway I will ignore them for now. And move unto more serious issues.

Bini version makes more sense because it's rational, you expect Oduduwa to come from a place of Negroid, and not from space, the Bini version of Oduduwa being a Bini Man is rational. Ofcourse I don't expect an Afonja to agree with me. Rationality isn't their forte.

Yoruba history is clear as crystals and it's holds the opinion that Oduduwa fell from the sky. There is no twisting around this.

"This is the most hilarious claim I have read on Nairaland in a long time Please do the following:

1. Provide this Historical 'fact"

It's a known historical fact that no Yoruba king was addressed as Oba pre colonial era. I don't know anyother historical fact you are looking for, it's not Yorubas were literate people with written history in the pre colonial era.

2." What is so special about the name Oba and the arrival of the British".


Irrelevant question.



"So tell me this: what is the relationship the way Igbos address their 'Kings' (in quote because Igbos don't have Kings - they only started copying Yorubas and others recently ) and the way Yorubas choose to address theirs"



The Eze nri is older than all monarchies ever existed in Yorubaland, the above only exposed your ignorance.



"Now, Yoruba names with OBA (just a few from the top of my head):
OBA-FEMI
OBA-RINDE
OBA-LARE
OBA-SOLAPE
OBA-TOTOSIN
OBA-FUNKE
ADE-OBA
OBA-DELE
OBANJOKO
OBAWOLE
OBAYANA
OBATAIYE
OBA-AIKU"


Means nothing, when we had already established that there are already existing Bini names with Oba prefix. Bini colonized parts of Yorubaland, so one would expect Oba names to spring up there, just as we have Oba names in Anioma land due to Bini imperialism too.



"I dare ANY authentic Bini person to even try to match this meagre number - I double-dare you. ;DThe name Oba is as Yoruba as BABALAWO"




Bini need not do anything. That Oba is a Bini word is already established, this is an irrelevant drivel from you

.


"I have doubts that you are guided by even a smidgen of rationality. You seem to me to be the typical Ipob whose only source of pleasure is picking fights with Yorubas on nairaland"



Now you are behaving like a real ignorant, yet haughty Afonja that you are.



"I am amused by your ignorance. If you don't know ask - stop exposing your ignorance like this.
Just because you don't know the answer to a question does not mean their is no answer. In Yoruba Odu'a means the one who endowed us with our way of life (or Culture)"


This is ridiculous. Everyone Knows that the name "Oduduwa" means nothing in Yoruba. If like call it Odua or anyother mombojombo your deluded mind can conjure.


"No offense taken - I am aware of your kind of sub-par level of reasoning common on Nairaland"



Non taken, i understand that mental retardation is a constant feature in Afonjaland, and is normally laced like a level of delusions of grandeur.
I understand you plight bro.

Igboid:

This is the hallmark of intellectual laziness, ad hominem attacks. Anyway I will ignore them for now. And move unto more serious issues.

Intellectual laziness is when you say you have "Historical fact" that proves that no Yoruba name with the word Oba existed before the arrival of the British. If you are not intellectually dishonest and weak THEN SUPPLY this so called evidence and shut me up forever. Attacks? please lighten the fvck up - are you not a proud Ipob? How is that an insult? You cannot (in all honesty) deny that you have an Ipob Igbo-centric agenda.

Igboid:

Bini version makes more sense because it's rational,

No. You wish it to make more sense because its fits your agenda.

Igboid:

you expect Oduduwa to come from a place of Negroid, and not from space,

And yet again, you confuse Odu'a the man with his essence - an inability to learn is the hallmark of the damned.

Igboid:

Ofcourse I don't expect an Afonja to agree with me. Rationality isn't their forte.

A true son of Odu'a does not agree with pseudo-rationality - we are too enlightened to fall for sentimental rubbish.

Igboid:

Yoruba history is clear as crystals and it's holds the opinion that Oduduwa fell from the sky.

No. You hold that opinion. Because you chose not to learn the difference between a physical being and his essence.

Igboid:
There is no twisting around this.

Don't worry. I am always willing to correct you when you get Yoruba history and culture wrong.

PS:
Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that the Ogba's Bini origin claim is false?. You said you have it and now back up you words with documents.

Don't forget to provide this 'Historical fact' that shows that no Yoruba name with the word Oba existed before the coming of the British. Your failure to do this means you will forever be my intellectual 'wife' in this forum. Your a$$ is grass son.

AkinPhysicist:
Don't forget to provide this 'Historical fact' that shows that no Yoruba name with the word Oba existed before the coming of the British. Your failure to do this means you will forever be my intellectual 'wife' in this forum. Your a$$ is grass son.

Cantankerous Soka forest goat...always twisting statements as if that hides your featherweight IQ. Igboid referred that Oba as a title of you-robber monarchs was 'nt original but copied from another culture. Wish you can be helped with better faculty but quite a shame yours can't be helped

"Don't be silly - nobody knows with certainty how the Ogbas were assimilated (if they were as they determinedly claim) by the Igbo culture. The absence of written records leave us with nothing more than hypothesis either for or against. The best thing we can go by is the oral tradition of the people themselves - in the case of the Ogbas their tradition is that of a Bini origin not Igbo. Now, since, you agree conquest is not the only possible cultural vehicle towards assimilation, then you have (by your own words) debunked your earlier claim that it is impossible that the Ogbas were assimilated by a non-conquest tribe like the Igbos. Also, just because one tribe survived a particular type of assimilation does not mean that some other tribe would also survive - cultural forces are complicated and can be very difficult to predict".



You failed so far to show how Ogba was assimilated by "Igbo", bearing in mind that there was no group known as Igbo was in existence as of the time in discuss.
Ogba couldn't have been assimilated by a non existing entity, ie "Igbo". This in itself nullifies your argument.
You are completely out of touch with the issues you are dabbling into, as you know next to nothing about the cultures of the people in discuss or the complexity of their interactions.

Ogba could only have been assimilated by Aboh, their neighbors, but historically we know this never happened as Aboh' ( Ukwuani) and Ogba were in constant warfare.

Ogba men like Francis Ellah believed Ogba had always been speaking their current Igboid dialects since antiquity, even though they migrated from Bini.
Modern historians are beginning to understand that Bini empire could have had Igbo speaking people inhabiting it, from where men like Akalaka, Ezechime, etc migrated from.
Conquest wasn't how Ogba acquired its current language. And it couldn't have been via mere interaction with the Abohs, as they were enemies.
Rational conclusion is that Ogba has always been Igbo speaking.



"This is rich coming from someone who was using examples in Spain, Portugal etc. I am still talking about other examples in Nigeria but you on the other hand have cross the Atlantic to the heart of Europe. Remove the log in your eyes son. Moreover, cultural forces are universal - there is NOTHING special about the Igbos that makes them immuned to the consequences of socio-cultural interactions".

Irrelevant drivel. Not worth reply.


"In addition, I noticed you conveniently side stepped that vital question. Now the answer is: Yes there are languages in Africa and Nigeria that have gone extinct within the last ten decades.And these are languages that disappeared because the natives stopped speaking them - as a result of the encroachment of a more dominant language. It happens hence it will be an act of gross intellectual dishonesty to dismiss the claims of the Ogba people who said that was what happened to them".

Only that there was never encroachment of any tribe in SE into Ogba. The only group that attempted to encroach into Ogba were the Abohs, who themselves failed and don't even regard themselves as Igbos today.

So out the window and into the trash can goes your encroachment theory.


. "I will love to be more specific but unlike you I was not there several hundred years ago when the ancient Ogbas and Igbos were interacting with each othe"



Not that, you have absolutely no knowledge on the culture and traditions of the people involved, you are absolutely ignorant of the issues at hand, so you try to mask your ignorance by making generalized Statements, but it still sticks out like a sore thumb.


"Yes. I forgot Igbos are so 'special' that the universal forces of cultural interactions does not apply to them. Now, lets not stop there, lets remind the world that the laws of Gravity does not apply to people of Igbo descent either"


This is you pathetically trying to mask your generalized statements but failing woefully.
Remind me again, what did you say made the Ogbas to be speaking Igbo dialects today?
Just like I thought, nothing, just generalized statements to cover ignorance.


" This was never a contest for me. But even if that is what you wanna call it, ANYONE with a functioning brain can clearly see that I absolutely decimated you. And I didn't have to copy and paste anything. Just pure logic and reasoning poured the proverbial cold water on your carelessly formulated assertions."

No it was never a contest. It couldn't be a contest when you are this ignorant and even worst, delusional.
You only ended up displaying your ignorance for the world to see. Ndo

bismarck:

Cantankerous Soka forest goat...always twisting statements as if that hides your featherweight IQ. Igboid referred that Oba as a title of you-robber monarchs was 'nt original but copied from another culture. Wish you can be helped with better faculty but quite a shame yours can't be helped

This one can't even construct a simple sentence and he wants to debate - go and play outside

Igboid:

You still don't know how to quote. Learn it - it should not take more than a few minutes.

PS:

Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that the Ogba's Bini origin claim is false?. You said you have it and now back up you words with documents.

"Calm down son. I was quoting your Ipob sister who could not believe that someone would bear an Igbo name and still claim to be of Bini origin. This is what happens when you jump on quotes without taking time to grasp the context. The Ogba people might have been Edo speaking but due to culturally assimilation their Edo dialect became extinct. This is a possibility that even you as Igbo-centric as you are cannot dismiss without stepping into the dung of intellectual dishonesty".

No, that is not a possibility, as there was nothing whatsoever to make Ogba lose their language. Ogba was dealing with groups it was equal to, she was dealing with Aboh, Ekpeye, Egbema, Ndoni She was larger than some of these groups and there was no reason whatsoever for it to lose its Bini language, as factors that could lead to that is non existent in Ogba location. This is why all small non Igbo speaking groups in Igbo area of influence are non Igbo speaking or at worst bilingual.
If you say otherwise, then provide the factors that led to Ogba speaking Igbo today.

And no, your example was irrational and I sure you see that now.
No Igbo person is surprised with Igbo speaking person could claim Edo origin, when we have them right in Onitsha.


"So (based on the above) one can argue that since the Ogba people do not have either Bini or Igbo in their name OGBA common sense would tell you that they should be allowed to choose their origin story without been demeaned and patronized. They have chosen Bini as their origin - I dare say let them be. "

Ogba is not a Bini word, it's a word many "Kwa" people have in their word list. We have many towns with the prefix "Ogba" in SE.

Ogba has never been stopped from peddling their irrational Bini stories. No Igbo person will force Ogba to be Igbo, we are too big for that.

But Ndiigbo will never accept Ogba insinuation that Igbo bible teachers and their interaction with Ndigno in Eastern region, was what gave them the current Igboid language they speak. We will always refute that claim as falsehood.
We will not accept the Ogba people painting us as internal colonialists who colonized them, and changed their Bini culture and language, as such never happened.
The Igboid language they speak will ever judge them and render their Bini story useless to any rational neutral observer, as Ndiigbo were never empire builders.

Igboid:

You still don't know how to quote. Learn it - it should not take more than a few minutes.

PS:

Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that the Ogba's Bini origin claim is false?. You said you have it and now back up you words with documents.

Igboid:


"Calm down son. I was quoting your Ipob sister who could not believe that someone would bear an Igbo name and still claim to be of Bini origin. This is what happens when you jump on quotes without taking time to grasp the context. The Ogba people might have been Edo speaking but due to culturally assimilation their Edo dialect became extinct. This is a possibility that even you as Igbo-centric as you are cannot dismiss without stepping into the dung of intellectual dishonesty".

No, that is not a possibility, as there was nothing whatsoever to make Ogba lose their language. Ogba was dealing with groups it was equal to, she was dealing with Aboh, Ekpeye, Egbema, Ndoni She was larger than some of these groups and there was no reason whatsoever for it to lose its Bini language, as factors that could lead to that is non existent in Ogba location. This is why all small non Igbo speaking groups in Igbo area of influence are non Igbo speaking or at worst bilingual.
If you say otherwise, then provide the factors that led to Ogba speaking Igbo today.

And no, your example was irrational and I sure you see that now.
No Igbo person is surprised with Igbo speaking person could claim Edo origin, when we have them right in Onitsha.


"So (based on the above) one can argue that since the Ogba people do not have either Bini or Igbo in their name OGBA common sense would tell you that they should be allowed to choose their origin story without been demeaned and patronized. They have chosen Bini as their origin - I dare say let them be. "

Ogba is not a Bini word, it's a word many "Kwa" people have in their word list. We have many towns with the prefix "Ogba" in SE.

Ogba has never been stopped from peddling their irrational Bini stories. No Igbo person will force Ogba to be Igbo, we are too big for that.

But Ndiigbo will never accept Ogba insinuation that Igbo bible teachers and their interaction with Ndigno in Eastern region, was what gave them the current Igboid language they speak. We will always refute that claim as falsehood.
We will not accept the Ogba people painting us as internal colonialists who colonized them, and changed their Bini culture and language, as such never happened.
The Igboid language they speak will ever judge them and render their Bini story useless to any rational neutral observer, as Ndiigbo were never empire builders.

Igboid you have schooled him. Ignore the semi literate. He doesn't deserve your time

AkinPhysicist:

I wish I could ask Akalaka the same question. But I understand he died several centuries ago - which leaves us with no other options than to send someone to the other side to question the great Ogba ancestor. Are you willing to volunteer?



Again, for the umpteenth time. Cultural assimilation does not require an 'empire.' All that is required is a dominant culture and language that could (under the right social-cultural/economic forces) lead to the extinction of not so dominant tribe. You in one of your post have even bragged about the INFLUENCE of the Igbo tribe in that general region.



We are both presenting hypothesis since none of us was there when the Ogba community was founded several centuries ago. The difference between us is that I have the intellectual humility (and honesty) to accept this. You on the other hand insist that you claims (that run counter to those of the Ogbas) are absolutely true because of course you were there hundred of years ago when the Ogba community was founded.


Yet the same Ogba people makes it clear that they are Binis originally and not Igbo so stop splitting hairs here.



Obviously still deeper than that dirty Aba gutter you have been trying to fish from the whole day.

1. Another irrelevant drivel. Akalaka name leaves no one in doubt the language he spoke, the name of his son Akpa Ohia solidifies it more.
No one need to resurrect Akalaka to answer a question that already answered.

2. Cultural assimilation doesnt require just empire, it requires other factors that Igbo speaking groups lack, which is why there are not one single assimilated non Igbo speaking group in SE. They all turn bilingual. Igbo republic and democratic nature accommodates diversity and it's clannish umunna unit, makes assimilation impossible.

3. Difference between us is that you have zero knowledge of cultural factors at work in the region in discuss. You are as ignorant as they come, which explains why you are always making bracket statements. You are far from an honest party. You are a scavenger.

Igboid:

You still don't know how to quote. Learn it - it should not take more than a few minutes.

PS:

Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that the Ogba's Bini origin claim is false?. You said you have it and now back up you words with documents.

AkinPhysicist:


This one can't even construct a simple sentence and he wants to debate - go and play outside

Oh yea, liar, fraudster, pedophile, you-robber Aki Ola-ni-hi. I' m having really good time this weekend, while you hide in a very dark room in brown roof republic typing crap from a stolen phone. Bast.rd pig with no ability to argue intelligently

bismarck:


Oh yea, liar, fraudster, pedophile, you-robber Aki Ola-ni-hi. I' m having really good time this weekend, while you hide in a very dark room in brown roof republic typing crap from a stolen phone. Bast.rd pig with no ability to argue intelligently

Go and play outside - you embarrassing yourself here - Tribalism has eaten your brain to bits.

Rt. Hon Rotimi Amaechi n His lovely wife remain one of d most faithful human being in Rivers State n Nigeria at large, move on,ur loyalty n uprightness ll lead u far politically n beyond

AkinPhysicist:


You looked it up? where?! In the Ipob book of revisionist history? Otherwise provide your source or stop been silly. You are just making conjectures based on your understanding of culture which is largely driven by your Igbo-centric Ipob ideology. I have no problem with conjectures however you seem to be driven by a blind 'religious' certainty. The only way, you can be this certain is if you were there, several hundred years ago when these events took place. Since, I can easily prove that you were not alive at the time, then all you are blowing is smoke without fire.



Its funny how the Ogba people account of their history agrees with this Yoruba man's hypothesis. I wonder who is really out of their depths here?

1, The history of the Igbo speaking people had long been documented by the colonials before things were politicized.
You are just a bitter Yoruba man whose opinion on this issue means nothing, and I do hope you know that,

Even today, in the heart of Bini kingdom, we have an, Igboid speaking Igbanke and other smaller towns. Igboid speaking people had always been part of Bini empire, but it will be ignorant for them to start claiming Bini or to insinuate that far away SE tribes forced their Igboid language on them.
The language they speak is their identity, it's the true reflection of who they are and have always been.

2. Ogba people account agree not with your trash posts here. For one, you had propounded that Akalaka name could have been originally Bini, something not even the Ogbas themselves will come up with.

The Ogbas contend that their language was turned Igbo by Igbo imposition of Igbo language on them and by interaction with Igbo people. These two I had debunked, only for you to start making arguments the Ogbas themselves don't make on this issue.

Igboid:

You still don't know how to quote. Learn it - it should not take more than a few minutes.

PS:

Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that the Ogba's Bini origin claim is false?. You said you have it and now back up you words with documents.

AkinPhysicist:


You still don't know how to quote. Learn it - it should not take more than a few minutes.

PS:

Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that the Ogba's Bini origin claim is false?. You said you have it and now back up you words with documents.

brother. I understand your arguments and some of them have very intelligent questions.

but trust me bro you are out of your depths here. just leave the matter. it is more political than academical. I'm not from ogba, but I'm from around there. and everyone knows the truth. you can be Igbo when its good. but when things are being shared and Igbo has gotten a slot...... claiming another tribe to get an extra slot for your "tribe" is nice.

amaechi proclaimed himself an Igbo man ......in fact he said...."to the core" when campaigning.

Edwin Clark also said that south south slot for president won't go to igbo.....when peter odili tried to run for presidency.

so bro....its something anyone not from that area will find hard.....

but as for the truth...... it lies inbetween the stories.

the Benin migration might be true...but it wasn't a cultural change....in fact the aforementioned kingdom had a huge impact on migration around rivers, bayelsa, asaba, anioma, onicha areas..... I mean onicha ugbo and all other onichas...in delta state..including the ones in ebonyi and all over SE....plus the most popular....the one in anambra....all due to migration by people running from Benin expansion, benin tax, and igbo citizens under benin rule wanting to form a new sovereign town to free themselves.

not that this doesn't only apply to Igbo...there are also pure Ijaw...and benin influenced ijaw people of probable Benin citizenship.... forming new towns....

isoko , urhobo and other edoid languages also did same.

so. yes there might have been a migration .....but that is not the reason for a cultural shift.........


its hard for me to explain some stuff here.....


and you started the questions from an academic and knowledge seeking point of view......why descend low to insults.

24SEVEN:
[sub][/sub]

Two points stand out from the bolded.

1) Prior to the coming of the British, no one was Igbo and
2) We all became Igbo because the white man assume that becos we all say "bia" as come, then we must all be under a single identity.

I dare say the british didn't do a holistic job, they were only interested in the ease of colonial administration and simply rounded up ethnicities into a whole number like it is done in secondary school mathematics. A typical situation is the case of the ekoi, ejagham, efik, ibibio, and the many ethnicities of cross river and akwaibom being grouped into one huge family basket by the british when most are mutually unintelligible.

I wish to state for the sake of clarity that Ikwerre and Ogba isnt mutually intelligible, ikwerre and ndoki, ekpeye, ngwa, izzi and all the languages listed are not mutually intelligible. Same with Ogba and the various languages. What they have in common are borrowed words and the primary source of those words are through slavery and trade. Those borrowed words that stuck arent sufficient enough for the british to tell who is who and what.

The british, if made to recolonise Nigeria today, with what they now know, will do a more encompassing breakdown.

I must point out that many of those ethnicities lumped together/identified as Igbos have come to accept the new identity and have forged on as one. Also a handful who do not feel a connection, sought ways to opt out of the forced Igbo union and were able to seize the opportunity that presented itself in 1970.

It is very unnecessary for those ethnicities that now constitute Igbo to resort to blackmailing those that declined by saying because of the Biafran defeat, because of the discovery of oil etc. Look at Oyigbo in Rivers, they feel a connection and they clearly identified themselves as Igbos. Same with Egbema in Rivers. Anyone who isnt interested should be left alone for good as they were never actually igbos in the first place.

1. You are wrong. While the British wanted ease of administration, they also needed proper documentation of groups for easy governance.

Small groups like Andoni, Ogbia, Epie, Ogoni, etc were all well documented and classified as independent groups when they could have lumped them with Ijaw or Igbo.

The British never assumed we had same identity, they knew we all saw each other as distinct people, but as neutral observers, they couldn't help to notice that we spoke dialects of same language and had shared cultures. They also knew our differences, they knew we had different origin stories, infact the British thought we were an enigma and were disillusioned by our origin stories, that at a point, it made no sense anymore to them.

2. Ikwerre, Ndoki, Ukwuani, Ogba, Onitsha, Owerri are mutually intelligible. Infact, a comparative study had been done on Ekpeye, Ukwuani, Ikwerre and Owerri languages, the only outstanding one there was Ekpeye which had the least intelligibility because it retained many proto Igbo words that the rest had lost.

Even at that, Ekpeye scored a cognation score of 76.3% with Onitsha language, which means they belong to same dialect cluster.
Ukwuani which is close to Ogba language scored a cognation score of 91.9% with Onitsha Igbo. Now understand that the closest SE dialect to Ogba is Ohaji,?and I'm sure Ogba will score a cognation of up to 97% with Ohaji or Oguta.
A cognation score of 91.9% isn't borrowed words, it's almost the entire language.

And they had nothing to do with slave trade.

Words rooted in Antiquity, tradition, customs in Ogba are all Igbo words. These transcend slave trade, which by the way you are yet to explain how it came into play here. Places like Bonny and Opobo were Igbo slaves changed the language demography still retained non Igbo language of non Igbo speaking people there. They still have Ibani language there. Ogba was never a slave town, so I fail to see the relevance of slave trade in this our discussion.

Words like ali for land, elu for sky, Eze ali for chief priest, Nkwo Eke, Orie/ Oye, Afor market days. Okoro for man, Ishi/ isi for head, Oma for good, the reverence got Yam( Ji) and Kolanut ( Oji), the belief in "Chi", Mini/Mili/Miri/Mmunyi for water, Ndu for life, Onwu for death, Madu/mmadu for human, these are the core of the Igbo speaking people, and they couldn't have been borrowed by Ogba people. No body throws away his heritage to borrow those of other people like that.

These things had been studied by linguistics over years.


2. Maybe, the stigma of the civil war loss and the economic and financial gain of New crude oil wealth made the Igbo tag unattractive for some who chose to fly solo.
But this must be clearly stated and all attempts to revise history as we know it, as you tried to sell the funny slave trade story making Ogba Igbo speaking should be stopped. I don't think you have ever seen Ohanaeze forcing any solo Igboid group into Igbo tag, it's always a topic discussed on online forums. Many of my friends in Afor Igwe are not even aware of a place called Ogba.

Oyigbo people decided that crude oil was not enough to deny their not so blessed with crude oil kins in Ukwa East and West of Abia state.
Three Egbema villages in Rivers couldn't deny the rest Of Egbema in Imo state.
Ogba had no problem denying their Awarra kins in Ohaji Imo state.
Everyone is usually left alone, until we start hearing that "Igbo forced Igbo language on us" story, then we had to come out and debunk them.

rigarmortis:


brother. I understand your arguments and some of them have very intelligent questions.

but trust me bro you are out of your depths here. just leave the matter. it is more political than academical. I'm not from ogba, but I'm from around there. and everyone knows the truth. you can be Igbo when its good. but when things are being shared and Igbo has gotten a slot...... claiming another tribe to get an extra slot for your "tribe" is nice.

amaechi proclaimed himself an Igbo man ......in fact he said...."to the core" when campaigning.

Edwin Clark also said that south south slot for president won't go to igbo.....when peter odili tried to run for presidency.

so bro....its something anyone not from that area will find hard.....

but as for the truth...... it lies inbetween the stories.

the Benin migration might be true...but it wasn't a cultural change....in fact the aforementioned kingdom had a huge impact on migration around rivers, bayelsa, asaba, anioma, onicha areas..... I mean onicha ugbo and all other onichas...in delta state..including the ones in ebonyi and all over SE....plus the most popular....the one in anambra....all due to migration by people running from Benin expansion, benin tax, and igbo citizens under benin rule wanting to form a new sovereign town to free themselves.

not that this doesn't only apply to Igbo...there are also pure Ijaw...and benin influenced ijaw people of probable Benin citizenship.... forming new towns....

isoko , urhobo and other edoid languages also did same.

so. yes there might have been a migration .....but that is not the reason for a cultural shift.........


its hard for me to explain some stuff here.....


and you started the questions from an academic and knowledge seeking point of view......why descend low to insults.

You would be extremely naive, if you think the Afonja interest in this topic is any thing remotely close to academics or quest for knowledge.

AkinPhysicist:


You still don't know how to quote. Learn it - it should not take more than a few minutes.

PS:

Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that the Ogba's Bini origin claim is false?. You said you have it and now back up you words with documents.

Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that Ogba people were not always Igbo speaking, but were Bini speaking and thereafter had Igboid language forced on them?

Where is it?

Igboid:


You would be extremely naive, if you think the Afonja interest in this topic is any thing remotely close to academics or quest for knowledge.

Hahahaha!

Igboid:


Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that Ogba people where not always Igbo speaking, but were Bini speaking and thereafter had Igboid language forced on them?

Where is it?

You still don't know how to quote. Learn it - it should not take more than a few minutes.

PS:

Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that the Ogba's Bini origin claim is false?.You said you have it and now back up you words with documents.

AkinPhysicist:


You still don't know how to quote. Learn it - it should not take more than a few minutes.

PS:

Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that the Ogba's Bini origin claim is false?.You said you have it and now back up you words with documents.

Afonja, why not show me.

Some people are in denial mode here.
Imagine someone from another tribe fighting for another ethnic group as if his life depends on it.
Naija Robinhood.

AkinPhysicist:

Don't be silly. Nowhere in my posts did I claim I had definite knowledge of the origin of the Ogbas. The reality is nobody does and hence we must respect the oral tradition of the Ogbas themselves. My contention with your colleague is that he insists that he has independent "third party" irrefutable research as evidence that the Ogbas did not originate from Bini and have always be Igbos. When I demanded he provide this research he became even more evasive exposing himself as an empty suit.

On the contrary. I not only exposed your colleague as intellectually dishonest. I was able to show that he claims independent research that he is unable to provide. If someone declares himself an IPOB, what is wrong in addressing him as such?


Again, on the contrary I started well and ended even better. The posts are up there for every objective nairalander to peruse. I don't expect an Igbo-centric mind like yours to be objective.


Assuming you are not making up stories then lets reason together: definition of mainly - for the most part; predominantly; So even right from the gate, you are already suggesting that there are non-Igbo elements in Ogba culture. So, since this non-Igbo elements are not of Bini (according to you) can you kindly describe them so we can be able to ascertain their origin or origins? Thank you.

Very simple. Two words: cultural assimilation.


This is a conspiracy theory. And even if I accept your theory, it does not negate the Ogbas insistence that they originate from Bini.


I would GLADLY do it all over again - few things give me more pleasure than exposing empty intellectual suits.

When you start a conversation/ argument with " Don't be Silly" , I immediately know your type but I have forgiven you because we are not mates. I don't know who you call my colleague neither do I know you, but I will be honest with you, the subject matter you are delving into is beyond you. Not sure you have travelled beyond Niger bridge but it will be nice if you learn and be wise.

Next, you will call me IPOB or Nnamdi KANU or Biafra, ...such an infectious disease that beclouds reasoning, you know the name of the disease. Let it not drown you.