LordAdam7:


I put it to you that if the whole of Yoruba land was like the Sahel or Sahara, virtually 80% of Yorubas today would have been Muslims and the Oyo and Ife thrones would have been completely Islamized to become Emirates.

Just look at any 19th century map and consider the Golden century of Fulani dominance in what is now present Nigeria, Niger, and Chad. And how these extended to modern day Mali, Senegal, Gambia et cetera.

The topography was the same and the indigenous tribes fell to the Islamic Fulanis, Berbers, and Arabs.

Even Jerusalem fell to the Islamists. And the Pope launched at least two unsuccessful Crusades against the Muslims.

So don't give the Yorubas too much credit. I know the Yorubas are brave and formidable opponents, but if they couldn't win back Illorin then you should know that if all of Yorubaland had the topography of Illorin, a descendant of Dan Fodio would have dipped a Koran in the Atlantic ocean.

Afonja's betrayal to Yorubaland and his fellow countrymen was an indirect act of his rebellion to his King.

I'm not sure why you guys rever him that much (apart from his well-honed Machiavellian skills). He was a traitor to the sworn King of the Yoruba people, and single-handedly created the vermins that threatened Yoruba independence the most and almost revamped Yoruba land as we know it.

Even the woman that helped Ife win against their invaders deserves more commendation that Afonja.

Anyway, it is all a matter of perspective. And a people are free to treat their important figures how they deem fit.

But perhaps this tendency of the Yorubas to extol people who every neighbor deem to be repulsive is why Yorubas are seen as scheming, back-biting, and treacherous people.

I'm forced to say it's in your genes. It's how you guys see life. And it is why you guys would never be trusted.

And it is why regardless of how you paint AFONJA to be a hero (practically revising history), we'd always tag Yorubas as AFONJAs to mean a people who have no problem being treacherous.

It may seem harsh. But the truth is BITTER.

Awolowo could have reigned on Gowon to uphold the Aburi Accord that would have prevented the war and actually made Nigeria more prosperous. But he didn't and in fact made it possible for Gowon to win the war. This is despite a more astute Yoruba at the time Soyinka spending time in prison for the exact opposite thing. Today, no Yoruba would want to tag that singular action of Awolowo as a mistake or treachery of Southern interests.

Tinubu repeated same in 2015, essentially rebelling against the Afenifere (like Afonja against the Alaafin) and led Yorubaland to the pillaging of Northern interests and in treachery of Southern interests. Even today, while the same Afenifere he so despised are closing ranks to see that no Yoruba son suffers the Abiola treatment again, powerful Yoruba men (like in times of old) such as Fashola and Fayemi are actually helping the Fulanis do the opposite.

Is it just me, or don't u guys see history repeating itself.

You guys can make NL a pan-Yoruba forum and seek to police opinion and effectively remain in an echo chamber of "All Yorubas are Heroes," or "Yorubas aren't more treacherous than other ethnicities." But your actions prove otherwise.

Now as 2019 approaches, you guys have started courting your cousins and neighboring Southern groups because like again the Fulani monster than an AFONJA re-incarnate created has become too destructive, and you guys want to rein in for the good of Yorubaland and to protect Southern interests.

Exactly the same as a few centuries ago.

So maybe, we have to rest this issue of AFONJA and talk about something less divisive as the importance of Eko (Lagos) to the development of Nigeria (in fact, North, South Protectorate, and Colony of Lagos were joined in 1914 because the North Protectorate was bleeding money and the British wanted the South Protectorate and Colony of Lagos especially to provide the money to maintain their hold of the North). Apparently the feeding bottle system in Nigeria is exactly 112 years old.

And more importantly, how much it benefits the Yorubas (especially with their media behemoth) to rally around with other Southern interests to make fiscal restructuring happen before 2025.

Because as far as this AFONJA issue is concerned, there's no amount of lipstick that would make non-Yorubas see him as nothing more than what Johnson portrayed him as--a reckless, mindless power-crazed traitor who reared the beast that killed him and sacked his ancestral home.

-Lord

vicadex07:


lol... stubborn guy. You too like trouble

Olu317:
You know nothing about History. If Afonja wasn't a great physical and spiritual warrior,how come his name is forever in the mindsets of ILORIN YORUBAs and the rest of Yoruba Race even the Abdusallam whose mother was Yoruba which is not even important . Little do you know.Do you know how Emir Momoh died? Ilorin was recreated by the British Empire in 1895/1896 after the British defeated the Ilorin Army commanders who were the Baloguns who made the Emir their puppet. Irrespective of Afonja rebellion,he remained unshaven even unto death. That was A GREAT WARRIOR.

LordAdam7:


I put it to you that if the whole of Yoruba land was like the Sahel or Sahara, virtually 80% of Yorubas today would have been Muslims and the Oyo and Ife thrones would have been completely Islamized to become Emirates.

Just look at any 19th century map and consider the Golden century of Fulani dominance in what is now present Nigeria, Niger, and Chad. And how these extended to modern day Mali, Senegal, Gambia et cetera.

The topography was the same and the indigenous tribes fell to the Islamic Fulanis, Berbers, and Arabs.

Even Jerusalem fell to the Islamists. And the Pope launched at least two unsuccessful Crusades against the Muslims.

So don't give the Yorubas too much credit. I know the Yorubas are brave and formidable opponents, but if they couldn't win back Illorin then you should know that if all of Yorubaland had the topography of Illorin, a descendant of Dan Fodio would have dipped a Koran in the Atlantic ocean.

Afonja's betrayal to Yorubaland and his fellow countrymen was an indirect act of his rebellion to his King.

I'm not sure why you guys rever him that much (apart from his well-honed Machiavellian skills). He was a traitor to the sworn King of the Yoruba people, and single-handedly created the vermins that threatened Yoruba independence the most and almost revamped Yoruba land as we know it.

Even the woman that helped Ife win against their invaders deserves more commendation that Afonja.

Anyway, it is all a matter of perspective. And a people are free to treat their important figures how they deem fit.

But perhaps this tendency of the Yorubas to extol people who every neighbor deem to be repulsive is why Yorubas are seen as scheming, back-biting, and treacherous people.

I'm forced to say it's in your genes. It's how you guys see life. And it is why you guys would never be trusted.

And it is why regardless of how you paint AFONJA to be a hero (practically revising history), we'd always tag Yorubas as AFONJAs to mean a people who have no problem being treacherous.

It may seem harsh. But the truth is BITTER.

Awolowo could have reigned on Gowon to uphold the Aburi Accord that would have prevented the war and actually made Nigeria more prosperous. But he didn't and in fact made it possible for Gowon to win the war. This is despite a more astute Yoruba at the time Soyinka spending time in prison for the exact opposite thing. Today, no Yoruba would want to tag that singular action of Awolowo as a mistake or treachery of Southern interests.

Tinubu repeated same in 2015, essentially rebelling against the Afenifere (like Afonja against the Alaafin) and led Yorubaland to the pillaging of Northern interests and in treachery of Southern interests. Even today, while the same Afenifere he so despised are closing ranks to see that no Yoruba son suffers the Abiola treatment again, powerful Yoruba men (like in times of old) such as Fashola and Fayemi are actually helping the Fulanis do the opposite.

Is it just me, or don't u guys see history repeating itself.

You guys can make NL a pan-Yoruba forum and seek to police opinion and effectively remain in an echo chamber of "All Yorubas are Heroes," or "Yorubas aren't more treacherous than other ethnicities." But your actions prove otherwise.

Now as 2019 approaches, you guys have started courting your cousins and neighboring Southern groups because like again the Fulani monster than an AFONJA re-incarnate created has become too destructive, and you guys want to rein in for the good of Yorubaland and to protect Southern interests.

Exactly the same as a few centuries ago.

So maybe, we have to rest this issue of AFONJA and talk about something less divisive as the importance of Eko (Lagos) to the development of Nigeria (in fact, North, South Protectorate, and Colony of Lagos were joined in 1914 because the North Protectorate was bleeding money and the British wanted the South Protectorate and Colony of Lagos especially to provide the money to maintain their hold of the North). Apparently the feeding bottle system in Nigeria is exactly 112 years old.

And more importantly, how much it benefits the Yorubas (especially with their media behemoth) to rally around with other Southern interests to make fiscal restructuring happen before 2025.

Because as far as this AFONJA issue is concerned, there's no amount of lipstick that would make non-Yorubas see him as nothing more than what Johnson portrayed him as--a reckless, mindless power-crazed traitor who reared the beast that killed him and sacked his ancestral home.

-Lord

naijalander:
Yes there is a letter. However it does not explicitly say 'come and be king over us at Ilorin' It was a call for help against the pagans bullying them. The flag symbolizes Sokoto overlordship over the muslims of Ilorin, not the pagans.

naijalander:
To be honest with you, the only I have seen Yoruba fail this country and especially the South is in leadership. We have not been able to practice what we preach, for me I think any tribe can be accommodating so the whole accommodating rubbish has to stop.

Meanwhile let's look at positive areas where Yoruba people have contributed better.

Arguably one can say that Yoruba people did sorta set precedent for compulsory education. Perhaps the first community to normalize child education, again am not saying Yoruba people are the first to go to school am just saying they made it fashionable for other people.

Religious tolerance and freedom. The Fulani brought their jihad to us and we fought them hard, they thought we were push overs but we were organized but for the petty disagreements between nobles, Ilorin may never have needed to write that letter and brought their main army. You should be thanking us because if they had won, then you would also be a Muslim with Rochas Okorocha as Emir of Imo. But really who else could have beat them back? Benin? gimme a break.

In the end we are all saying the same thing.

naijalander:
hi, here:

https://ia800302.us.archive.org/34/items/historyofyorubas00john/historyofyorubas00john.pdf

naijalander:
Wait till you see the drama between Efunsetan and Latosa. Pure Nollywood!

naijalander:
I suppose one can thank Afonja for being the first person to successfully rebel against the Alaafinate; key word successful but really don't get your hopes up with these old Yoruba dudes. From my study so far, all I see is egos clashing over petty issues. To be honest except for Awolowo (whom I still doubt by the way), I don't think we have such great Yoruba leaders, no offense but these guys were able to centralize an entire area with access to the coast, the coast! they never even tried to build ships. Aromire and co just sat there.

I think most Yoruba people don't get the fact that their ancestors spent the last century dealing in human souls. The economy until early protectorate was slavery, they killed the farms, they put the blacksmiths out of work, the artisans into slavery.

For me, our history is simply a shameful reminder that perhaps it's true; to be a black man is to a waiter at the Earth's banquet.

Olu317:
.I can only affirm one thing here and that's the beauty of self expression. Do you even know it was the evil deed of the Oyomesi that created problems for Alaafinnate when they did lied and perfected the method of forcing AROLE OBA to commit suicide after all his father's demise. I can categorically imagine how many would had ran away due to this reason. That was where the problems really started because they overturned the status quo just to be able to curtail the excess power of Alaafin. Having noticed this, it was practically impossible for some of the things mentioned to be could not be made to become reality because THEY WERE STACKED ILLITERATES. That's why the only thing they could remember was they migrated from Middle East but another things proof these. Such as rendition, mourning of the death, worship of seven skull of the dead king of Israel under the name of Obatala , inheriting once brother's wife after one's brother's death, Elders as family heads etc. These were some of the things the remember because they were customs and traditions. Yoruba naturally aren't the traveling type, even when they do, they always refer to their ancestral home,so these also gave rise to the problem you empahise. But in my greatest shocking finding was that, THE BRITISH EMPIRE NEARLY KILLED BECAUSE THEY CREATED NIGERIA AT THE DETRIMENT OF YOURUBAS. IMAGINE, IF IT WAS A YORUBA NATION, AND IN 1950S, AWOLOWO BROUGHT TELEVISION TO WESTERN NIGERIA, WHICH WAS THE FIRST IN AFRICA, WHEN IN FACT MANY COUNTRIES IN EUROPE WERE NOT HAVING THE MONEY TO DO SUCH, THEN YOU SHOULD KNOW BY NOW THAT 50 YEARS AFTER, WE WOULD HAVE BE ON EQUAL ECONOMIC PROWESS WITH SOUTH KOREAN ON A LOW KEY BUT ON A HIGH NOTE, WITH THE SAME LEVEL JAPAN. WHY DID I MENTION JAPAN? JAPAN DOES NOT HAVE ONE SINGLE NATURAL RESOURCE.

OROSUNBOLB:
Op,this very rich thread will not be complete without giving the account of the battle of Osogbo. That's where the fulanis met their waterloo. I would like to know why the Ibadan war Generals did not march on Ilorin and retake it from the Alimi's descendants and allies having defeated the fulani soldiers in that battle.

The so-called Emir of Ilorin will still go back to where Alimi,his progenitor came from ONE DAY. It is just a matter of time. Ilorin belongs to Oodua. I am proud of Afonja though he was treacherous and overtly ambitious, he was a great and brave warrior who fought to the last breath of his life.

Alimi,like every other fulani,was a very cunning, vindictive and treacherous person. He used religion to brainwash Solagberu of Oke-suna who should have provided the much needed assistance to Afonja during the palace coup.

The seat of Emir of Ilorin represents deceit,treachery,betrayal etc. We (Yorubas) should not allow it to stand on our soil. I have no doubt in our capabilities to correct the mistake of Afonja and just that we shall do ONE DAY. There is a score to settle !


deceit,treachery,betrayal etc

OROSUNBOLB:
Op,this very rich thread will not be complete without giving the account of the battle of Osogbo. That's where the fulanis met their waterloo. I would like to know why the Ibadan war Generals did not march on Ilorin and retake it from the Alimi's descendants and allies having defeated the fulani soldiers in that battle.

The so-called Emir of Ilorin will still go back to where Alimi,his progenitor came from ONE DAY. It is just a matter of time. Ilorin belongs to Oodua. I am proud of Afonja though he was treacherous and overtly ambitious, he was a great and brave warrior who fought to the last breath of his life.

Alimi,like every other fulani,was a very cunning, vindictive and treacherous person. He used religion to brainwash Solagberu of Oke-suna who should have provided the much needed assistance to Afonja during the palace coup.

The seat of Emir of Ilorin represents deceit,treachery,betrayal etc. We (Yorubas) should not allow it to stand on our soil. I have no doubt in our capabilities to correct the mistake of Afonja and just that we shall do ONE DAY. There is a score to settle !


deceit,treachery,betrayal etc

LordAdam7:


The colony of Lagos should have never been joined with the Southern and Northern Protectorates. It was solely about British interests. And it clashed with Yoruba interests squarely.

It's a shame really.

And when Lagos and palm oil from the core ND gave way for the discovery of oil, the Fulani knew the British interests could actually serve their interests. It is why to this day, even tho' the Northern and Western (to mean Western Europe and North America) way of life are at complete odds, their interests are well aligned as far as Nigeria is concerned.

It is thus disappointing that exactly 101 years after that shameful capitulation was done, eminent Yorubas who should have known better stopped the only chance at decisively proffering a workable solution in the 2015 elections. And in so doing, orchestrated the biggest mistake since 1960, by handing over power to the same Fulanis for at least the next 24 years (quarter of a century--8 years for each of the northern sub regions). By then, any hopes of restructuring would have been successfully and completely quashed.

And who loses?

-Lord

Olu317:
are you sure they are pagan? I thought Yoruba had and still have a Deity called Eledumare /olodumare /Olorun. Do you call that paganism? A people that stood and fight Against Islamization of Yoruba land. Do you think it wasnt GOD that helped the Yoruba warriors who fought against Jihadist? Yoruba Race are not ordinary Race. If you understand spiritualism, you know what I mean. It wasn't ordinary they fought against themselves at first and again fought and won against the Jihadist 1839/1840.

dEastActivist:


I know my history very well...
I am a descendant of ERi son of Gad...
And other socio-Religio-political historical occurrence that occurred can be shared on request or via link sharing.

What do you think will happen when I ask you, the olugbo of ugbo, the ooni of ife, and the oba of Benin on the history of Yoruba in a setting??

LordAdam7:


If that were so, there wouldn't be no USA, Mexico, Britain, Canada, Germany, France, Russia, India, Pakistan...

Each of these powers I mentioned came to a cross-road at some point where they had a major foe that threatened their very existence, and they came together to disband that foe (even with their intra-rivalries).

So no, this is not just about the fall of the Oyo empire, this is about an educated people hampered by the treachery of a significant proportion of them.

If it wasn't for the topography, the Fulani would have overran the Yorubas (supported of course by greedy, self-centered Yoruba chiefs). That's the line I'm drawing. It is one thing to have rivalry between each other (every tribe has intra rivalry), it is a whole other thing for powerful people with a large followership (not just a few Judases) to allow a common enemy to kill their own blood.

Only I can slap my brother. If someone else outside the family slaps him, na police cell straight.

I hope u get my point.

-Lord

koladebrainiac:


You got it wrong

There were formal country like USSR who were disbanded. Even Rome controlled the known world. They were very formidable. But where are they now? Where is Rome? Go n read about Mongolians their empire how islamization destroyed a beautiful culture. Go n read about Persian n medes n babylonians!

Please read history n learn. Treachery n politics n war has been in place b4 yoruba civilization.

LordAdam7:


I think the window of opportunity to reclaim Ilorin is far gone.

I may be wrong tho'.

-Lord

LordAdam7:


Read my posts again, then you'll know not to compare Yoruba country(Oyo Empire) and Rome or USSR or the Persian, Assyrian, and Babylonian empires.

This is not science, it's art.

Treachery and politics and war between rulers and over-ambitious people is understandable. What isn't is treachery against your own people for very silly, selfish reasons. The Yorubas would have taken back Illorin if not for the treachery of some powerful Yoruba warriors and chiefs against Yoruba interests.

It's one thing to hate your king, it is another to hate your people.

One can hate Buhari or GEJ, but is a whole other ball game to hate Nigerians.

-Lord

koladebrainiac:

There has been rise n fall of every empire. Rome was reduced to very smaller state.

Mongolia is now extinct
Same for medes n persian.

Empire is meant to fall.

Its understandable for every subject to get tired of Oyo empire with their over bearing n form alliance with Alimi with his promises of military support.


Oyo was an empire. Forcefully ruling over smaller cities n big cities n potential big cities. . its sure thing for the rise of back stabbers n treachery.

If oyo had united n conquered Ilorin

The likes of Ibadan as the largesr city n Lagos may not have possible.

With all the might n military power of Uthman dan fodio, has it uplifted Kano n Bornu n Kastina n kaduna n zamafara from Economy hardship?


The only thing Northern state can boast of thats helping them is there Population- now its not am excuse for east n west nigeria not to be able to defeat them politically.


The only major Advantage oyo empire would have given to us present generation is population. I am not supporting most of their deeds but whatever each kings did those days was mostly done in the best interest of their immediate subject. Now dont get me wrong,most of this people' actions were crude n not necessary advanced but they did it anyways .

See now,if Hausa failed to manage their growing power over other region very well, they will soon fall like oyo empire.

Many tribes n region in the north are now aware of Fulani domineering. Very soon great revolution will come in the north that will usurp Fulani domination n n scattere every tribe n tingue in the north.

One precedence that has taken place now is the scattered opinions in the north. They are waging war on their religion* shites vs sunnis very soon it will affect them politically n it will favour us in the south both east n west .



Finally, mistakes are being made repeatedly by Yorubas. But i am sure they are now opening their eyez.

Telling our story is helping us to know the root of our problem. We will solve it. Thats what Ooni of Ife is attempting to do. We know our problem, we will solve it one way or the other.

My concern is that Igbos are just condemning us,blaming yoruba,Hausa even Niger delta for their own misfortunes. They havent pick their own problem always pointing accusing fingers on other people.


So we Yorubas has seen our truble-our mistakes n i am sure we will address it.

OROSUNBOLB:


That is what you think but trust me you're very wrong. We are not seeking any opportunity to reclaim Ilorin as it has always been Yoruba land and it will continue to be so. Not a single shot will be fired when the tittle 'Emir of Ilorin' will cease to exist.

I have been to that palace more than thirty times in the past and as recently as two weeks ago. On each occasion of my visit,I have always observed that Yoruba culture is promoted and highly visible in the palace. Yoruba language is the official language spoken at the palace. This is not borne out of love for Yoruba people but it is out of fear for the future of the fulani people of Ilorin and particularly that of the tittle-Emirof Ilorin.

Trust me,in a not too distant future,the tittle 'Emir of Ilorin' will cease to exist. Fulanis are no match for us in every shpere of life.

tunene66:


Ilorin being in the Northern region might be a proof that there was a special tie with Sokoto. Abdulsalami son of Alimi was given a flag from Gwandu (the western empire of the Sokoto Caliphate). According to research done by Abdullahi Smith, a one time Professor of History ABU n Director Arewa House Kaduna, there is a letter in Gwandu written in 1829 from the Emir of the West(Gwandu) to the Emir of the Yoruba(Ilorin) Abdulsalami