BornStunner1:


YOU OBVIOUSLY DID NOT START FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE THREAD JUST LIKE A TYPICAL IGBO OZOUR U SHARPLY RAN TO THE ENDING OF THE THREAD TO START FABRICATING TRASH

I WOULD NOT EVEN WASTE TIME ON YOU
..... BCUS IT IS OBVIOUS MOST OF YOU ARE STILL SUFFERING FROM THE LASHING MUTILATING HUMILATION U IGBOS GOT FROM THE CIVIL WAR!!

DO NOT WORRY YOU PPL WULD GET ANODA COMING SOON!!

hammerF:


The bolded statement is very ignorant and myopic.

I know ur just joining this debate and based on my earlier recommendation, i will let u off softly whilst i correct ur presumptive errors.

The bolded is the only opinion u raised and tried to pass off as a factual statement. The question u have to answer based on that presumption is; when was the Bini empire in its prime? Wat were the component of the Bini empire in its prime? Did it constitute a homogeneous entity or non homogeneous entity? The igbos in this context are presumed to be an homogeneous entity of people with the same language.

"Now let me help u with the answer." If ur insinuation is based on bini being a non homogenous entity, occupying an area much larger than the area occupied by present day igbo speaking states, then ur argument is not only flawed but contradicts the claims u are trying to make.

"I hope u can see ur error already." The British colonised more than half of the world. Does that make United Kingdom much larger than Russia? In the context that the Empire is no more today. This is a very good example, so reflect on it and wat u wrote then equate it to the claims that u are trying to lay.

hammerF:


The bolded statement is very ignorant and myopic.

I know ur just joining this debate and based on my earlier recommendation, i will let u off softly whilst i correct ur presumptive errors.

The bolded is the only opinion u raised and tried to pass off as a factual statement. The question u have to answer based on that presumption is; when was the Bini empire in its prime? Wat were the component of the Bini empire in its prime? Did it constitute a homogeneous entity or non homogeneous entity? The igbos in this context are presumed to be an homogeneous entity of people with the same language.

"Now let me help u with the answer." If ur insinuation is based on bini being a non homogenous entity, occupying an area much larger than the area occupied by present day igbo speaking states, then ur argument is not only flawed but contradicts the claims u are trying to make.

"I hope u can see ur error already." The British colonised more than half of the world. Does that make United Kingdom much larger than Russia? In the context that the Empire is no more today. This is a very good example, so reflect on it and wat u wrote then equate it to the claims that u are trying to lay.

Around 1440, Ewuare became the new Oba of Benin. He built up an army and started winning land. He also rebuilt Benin City and the royal palace.
Oba Ewuare was the first of five great warrior kings. His son Oba Ozolua was believed to have won 200 battles. He was followed by Oba Esigie who expanded his kingdom eastwards to form an empire and won land from the Kingdom of Ife. Ozolua and Esigie both encouraged trade with the Portuguese. They used their wealth from trade to build up a vast army.
The fourth warrior king was Oba Orhogbua. During his reign, the empire reached its largest size. It stretched beyond the River Niger in the east and extended west as far as present-day Ghana.
Oba Ehengbuda was the last of the warrior kings. But he spent most of his reign stopping rebellions led by local chiefs. After his death in 1601, Benin’s empire gradually shrank in size.

PabloAfricanus:


Ignorance is what is challenging most Africans, coupled with lack of a reading or research culture.
I will be brief.

These are the areas in square kilometres (km²) covered by each of the SE Igbo states.
Imo 5,530 km²
Abia   6,320 km²
Enugu 7,161 km²
Anambra 4,844 km²
Ebonyi  5,533 km²

TOTAL AREA oF ALL SE IGBO STATES=17,535 km2

Now compare that to the area covered by today's Edo state
Edo 17,802 km²

I used Wikipedia as a quick source, I did not bother to check the official sources, you are free to counter figures above anyway.

Mind you that this is Edo after the British had made the Oba renounce claims to most of his nearby and far flung territories.
Being an Igbo man, I doubt if the concept of conquest and territory would make sense to you, cos its not a concept most Igbo
people identify with or make sense of.
So I wont bother to list the territories Bini controlled before the British deposed Oba Ovamranwen.
Did the Igbos have any territory that the British took away?
I leave it to you to do the math and imagine the size of Bini land proper, territories in today's Ekiti, Ondo, Lagos and all the way down South
to Urhobo and Itshekiri lands.

So who is the myopic and ignorant one here now?

PabloAfricanus:


Now you are looking for trouble grin
How do you mean and where did you get that information from?
Any research done to come up with that conclusion...care to share?
Please be careful in your statements, Bini in its prime was larger than the area occupied by the present day Igbo speaking states.
Moreover, the stark contrast in social life, culture and political systems between the Edos and the Igbos makes your statement sound very very very ignorant.
Please desist from making ignorant statements like this that will only engender distrust and hatred.
If you do not have the facts to back up your "facts"...then keep it to yourself.
Thanks.

PabloAfricanus:


Here is another historical chip for you, from here http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z3n7mp3



Besides the fact that present day Edo state is bigger than all the SE Igbo states combined with extra space left,
the Bini Empire in its heyday extended west as far as present-day Ghana.
I wont bother to contrast the state of development of present Igbo land then as compared to Bini during the time of Oba Orhogbua.
Or the knowledge of geography, settlements along the West African coast, far flung conquests carried out etc...when the Igbos were still living in closely knit village units and had no concept of kings or armies.

Now before you go rambling offpoint again, who is the myopic and ignorant one now?
Get your facts right before you go arguing on topics you know nothing about.

hammerF:


Please follow the tangent and stop going off point, i dont have the time or patience for retarded arguement here.

I clearly addressed area u raised and raised questions that u obviously cannot answer judging by this response. Wat u do is to run to wikipedia and trump up figures that u admit might be wrong and talk completely off point.

This might be my last reply to u. I leave u to engage the bini boyz in an incoherent barracking and interjections.

By the way, see wat u said below, now u have deviated to the 5 geopolitical zones. Here is a link to Delta State and River State and the languages spoken in both state. In case u dont known igbo is spoken in Delta and Rivers officially recognised. Unofficial all the bordering states to the south east have either igbo speaking town or villages.

hammerF:



Facts! Anioma are the first migrants to the the Delta and Edo axis.

Facts! Benin colonised them in the 15th Century and imposed its political structure.

Facts! Igala arrived from the north to anioma much later but earlier than the Olukomi.

Fact! Benin and Igbos migrated back and forth from Delta to Edo and even Onitsha.

Fact! Benin share a lot of similar words and culture with Igbos and yoruba.

Fact! Urhobo and Esan are Edoid culture and migrated from Bini much later. Evidence is their language is Bini.

Fact Igbos are the original people to settle in Bini and mix with yorubas and as a result the Bini Language was created.

Fact today, intertribal couples end up speaking English at home, back then they had to invent a new language for themselves as we see in Isoko where ijaw is mixed with urhobo.

hammerF:

Fact Igbos are the original people to settle in Bini and mix with yorubas and as a result the Bini Language was created.

PabloAfricanus:


Sigh

This what you posted as FACTS



And I challenged you on this



I did not even bother to address your other "facts" cos apparently you have little knowledge of the subject matter.
I asked you FIRST to provide PROOF or evidence that the Igbos were the first to settle in Bini...which ofcourse you only
came up with more arguments and skipped.
I then showed you that there is no way the what you posted as FACT could be true because:

1) The contrasting social,cultural and political backgrounds of Binis and Igbos does not support your argument.
If it did, the two cultures would have rubbed off each other.
Or oral evidence would have survived to buttress that fact.
Cue the Romans and Gauls, the Fulanis and the Habes, Fulanis and surrounding tribes in Adamawa etc.
The implication of your posted "FACTS" would mean that they were sister cultures, when infact nothing like that existed.
The Binis had highly organized political systems, organized armies, carried out military campaigns,urban centres, diplomatic relations with foreign kings, were empire builders.
The Igbos on the other hand, had nothing in terms of politics, military and empire to what the Bini empire was.
I hope that concept is not too abstract for you to wrap your head around.

2) The landmass occupied by Bini speaking people way before the colonials came shows that the Igbos were not even in the picture.
And the Binis have no oral history of coming from anywhere else or driving out aborigines from Bini land proper.
And even after Nigeria had been formed and the old kingdoms carved up, present Edo state still occupies a larger land mass than all the SE Igbo states combined.
All the conquered territories by the Bini empire did not include any of the Igbo lands today as we know it.
The closest Bini got to Igbo speaking lands was the Aniocha/Ika lands and my argument in this thread is that those people were and have always been Igbos, albeit influenced and mixed with Bini.
If you have any oral or documented history of the Bini empire conquering Igbo aborigines and driving them out from their lands...please share.
Until then, the lands the Bini empire conquered and occupied had NOTHING to do with Igbo lands as we know it.

Are you also uncomfortable with facts?

hammerF:



Guy go sleep, u will fare better wen u wake up.

Read ur first post to me and see how u have completely gone off point.

From Bini, it is now Edo.

I hope u know that with Edo we have the Igboid areas that speak Ika i.e Igbanke and then some yoruba parts up North, Igala part up North and other various parts such as Ebira.

Edo consist of too many different groups distinct from Bini.

I no go reply u again. Bye

PabloAfricanus:


It's either you have a comprehension problem or you are simply confused.
I'm aware Igbo is spoken in Rivers and Delta states...that's the whole point of this thread anyway. Is that the point you were trying to make?
You want to add Ikwerre and other Igbo speaking lands as evidence of what?
Clearly state it...
Edo consisting of 1 million groups has no bearing on the "facts" you came up with.
Bini's driving out Igbos and joining with Yorubas to create the Bini language
Where did you pick that from?
And your replies just keep getting off point...
Provide proof for your facts"...that's the challenge I posed to you.
Or you can just run away and claim superior knowledge only available to you.

hammerF:


GUY IF U WANT INSULT, U SIMPLE SAY, U WILL LOSE THAT MATCH TOO.

COME WITH FACTS AND STOP SPEAKING IGNORANTLY.

I AM STARTING TO DOUBT IF U ARE EDUCATED AT ALL.


U CANNOT DIFFERENTIATE BINI AND EDO, BUT YET U WANT TO DEBATE?


WAT EXACTLY, WILL U ARGUE, WEN U DONT KNOW THE BASICS?

PabloAfricanus:


You are funny.
Should have guessed from your contributions so far.
No need to engage you further.

ariesbull:
Maybe your father should be answering that

PabloAfricanus:


[s]You are funny.
Should have guessed from your contributions so far.
No need to engage you further[/s].

The Binis had highly organized political systems, organized armies, carried out military campaigns,urban centres, diplomatic relations with foreign kings, were empire builders.
The Igbos on the other hand, had nothing in terms of politics, military and empire to what the Bini empire was.
I hope that concept is not too abstract for you to wrap your head around.

BornStunner1:
PabloAfricanus you have made some nice contribution up there based on Authentic Facts not Bais I like that Thumbs Up!!

And i me too without Bais agree that the Aniomas were Originally igbo but have been influenced extremely by Edos over the centuries that now thier Ancestry is 50% Edo 50% Igbo.

I have no problem with igbos....... Even Igbos of Onitsha extraction view Edos as kith and Kin....... Its things like this that bring about Unity and Progress not Arguments that can never be won like some of ur igbo ppl have been trying to do on this thread but failed woefully

blues20:


This has been my position all along.... Aborigine Igbos and Bini, Igala, even Yorubas formed Anioma of today. But since Igbos constitute the largest and more dominant, the Igbo language and culture prevailed over others. I don't see the reason why some mofos will be doubting the facts that Igbos were the aborigines of these places.

BornStunner1:


REMOVE YORUBA FROM THERE.......

blues20:


This has been my position all along.... Aborigine Igbos and Bini, Igala, even Yorubas formed Anioma of today. But since Igbos constitute the largest and more dominant, the Igbo language and culture prevailed over others. I don't see the reason why some mofos will be doubting the facts that Igbos were the aborigines of these places.

BornStunner1:
PabloAfricanus you have made some nice contribution up there based on Authentic Facts not Bais I like that Thumbs Up!!

And i me too without Bais agree that the Aniomas were Originally igbo but have been influenced extremely by Edos over the centuries that now thier Ancestry is 50% Edo 50% Igbo.


I have no problem with igbos....... Even Igbos of Onitsha extraction view Edos as kith and Kin....... Its things like this that bring about Unity and Progress not Arguments that can never be won like some of ur igbo ppl have been trying to do on this thread but failed woefully

BornStunner1:


REMOVE YORUBA FROM THERE.......

hammerF:


EVEN BORNSTUNNER THINK WAT U SAID IS CRAP. TELL US WHERE BINI CAME FROM?

BornStunner1:
PabloAfricanus you have made some nice contribution up there based on Authentic Facts not Bais I like that Thumbs Up!!

And i me too without Bais agree that the Aniomas were Originally igbo but have been influenced extremely by Edos over the centuries that now thier Ancestry is 50% Edo 50% Igbo.

I have no problem with igbos....... Even Igbos of Onitsha extraction view Edos as kith and Kin....... Its things like this that bring about Unity and Progress not Arguments that can never be won like some of ur igbo ppl have been trying to do on this thread but failed woefully

ehikwe22:
People like you are not to be taken seriously. This just proves that you are biased and you argue out of sentiment and never out of personal conviction which makes you to be the same with people you've been condemning.

Abagworo:
Benin empire is not Bini ethnic group.

gregyboy:
Aniocha girls are beautiful i meant one today