smallrincowis16:

lolsssssssssssss.
i'm bewildered. when we say something is corrupt does that means the thing in its entirety is useless. please read the verses i quoted above. you get to undertand better. QURAN emphasizes it that during the time of prophet S.A.W the truth of the past books were still much avialable but the jews and christian were either changing its judgement or refusing to follow it

You said Waraqa Bin Nawal translated the new testament into Arabic, where is the copy, which library can I find it?

smallrincowis16:

your wordings are full of fallacies.
there are so many verses in the QURAAN even in history that proof to the messangership of the prophet S.A.W.
for your information there is no single verse in QURAAN that point to indescriminate killings of innocent lives.
islam is the only religion that gives everything its right

Here you go again, altaqiyya merchant.

The Koran advised aggression against non-muslims (Qur'an 2:171-172, Quran 9:29-30, Quran 9:5, Quran 8:39, and hundreds other verses ) while the hadith is the narrations of the execution of the Quranic 'revelation'. See sample below:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror, and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (sahih Bukhari 4:52:220)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)". sahih Bukhari 4:52:196.

The instruction above can only be given by a Mafia leader.

smallrincowis16:

thats what made islam the only sure religion.
During the time of prophet S.A.W there are elements of truth in the books then. even they were correct and not corrupted by some of their monks. that was why the prophet was QUICKLY identified by jews then.
also, to get the point straight there is no single verse in QURAAN that contradicts itself, if you're sure of any bring it
the books sent to the past prophet are of course authentic but the problem was after the demise of isrealite's prophet they change or follow their desires

Solve this puzzle first, numerical discrepancies in the koran:

Does Allah's day equal to 1,000 human years (Sura 22:47, 32:5) or 50,000 human years (Sura 70:4)?

According to Sura 56:7 there will be THREE distinct groups of people at the Last Judgement, but 90:18-19, 99:6-8, etc. mention only TWO groups.

There are conflicting views on who takes the souls at death: THE Angel of Death [32:11], THE angels (plural) [47:27] but also "It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death." [39:42]

Angels have 2, 3, or 4 pairs of wings [35:1]; but Gabriel had 600 wings. [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 455]

Since the Quran is never independent of the hadith, should I include thousands of contradictions and superstition in the hadith?

smallrincowis16:

yes now, who give the purpose word of GOD name? no whose authority and why?
is bible ever known to JESUS P.B.H

You sound funny. Did Jesus read from the Torah, in the synagogue (not mosque because Jesus was both an ethnic and religious Jew and not a Muslim as you are lied to by your imam and sheik) or not? Where did Jesus see the Torah he read in the Jewish synagogue?

smallrincowis16:

did you belief in QURAAN THE PROPHET SINCE WARAQA A JEW BELIEF IN HIM?

I don't believe in Mohammed, even when Barack Obama, a fake Christian, adore and respected Mohammed because he was instrumental to signing of gay law in the US. I view Waraqa the way I view Barack Obama because both are ignorant Jew (waraqa) and lying and ignorant Christian (Obama is actually a Muslim in Christian clothing).

You will agree with me that Mohammed never knew he was a prophet until waraqa, after hearing (from Khadijah, his niece) how Mohammed met an entity who called him Gabriel, in a cave at hira. This same entity, the so-called Jibril, also terrified and choked Mohammed before allegedly giving him the so-called revelation (read the biography of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq and the al-tabari and see the truth).

smallrincowis16:

ITS ONLY IN BIBLE THAT EVERY PROPHET IS TAINTED IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER . BUT IN ISLAM WE HOLD EVERY PROPHET IN HIGH ESTEEM. THE ACCOUNT I QUOTED IN BIBLE IS JUST TO POINT DISSILLUTION IN IT.
prophet S.A.W never transgressed. those he married was as a result of death of their husband and being the leader he must tako care of them. not even even one of them did he slept with &also he didn't have any concubine, all he did were legislated

The Bible is not an altaqiyya material that hides the truth. If any prophet did wrong, the bible will point it out so that we can learn from their mistake and avoid making the same mistake. Prophets are also human prone to errors.

Some of the widows Mohammed married are either the widows of men Mohammed killed in battle, eg safiyya in khaiber, or the widow of his sahabas who dies in battle. Most of the widow Mohammed married died in battles led and executed by Mohammed himself.

And again, in Quran 33:37-50, allahh already sanctioned Mohammed to marry any believing woman he wants without restrictions. While allahh asked Muslims to marry a maximum of 4 wives, Mohammed can marry 20 women if he likes. allahh seems to give Mohammed special treatment above all other Muslims.

smallrincowis16:

very very sure of it. as in surest

I want you to read this carefully.
Let me start from the beginning.
Sahih al- Bukharin 6.61.510: Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied and ordered that all the other Koranic materials, whatever written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt!
So here we can see that Uthman had already ordered some part of the Koran to be burnt. I didn't write this or make it up. You can confirm. Now let's move on.
Sahih al- Muslim 2286 : Abu Harb b. Abu al-Aswad reported on the authority of his father that Abu Musa al-Ash'ari sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number. They recited the Qur'an and he said: You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you. We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara'at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: "If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust." And we used so recite a surah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it, but remember (this much) out of it: "Oh people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practise" (lxi 2.) and "that is recorded in your necks as a witness (against you) and you would be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection" (xvii. 13).
So from this place you can see that some chapters of the Koran were missing because they were forgotten! Are you following me?
Sahih al-bukari 6.61.527: Ubay was the best of us in the recitation of the Koran. Yet we leave some of what he recites. Ubay says, I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's messenger and will not leave it for anything whatsoever.
Notice that Ubay was one of the four teachers of the Koran who Mohammed recommended that the Koran be learnt from. And yet some things in his recitation are left out of the present Koran. Follow me, let's keep going.
Now who put together the Koran we have today? Zayd ibn Thabit. Was he one of the top four teachers recommended by Mohammed? Nope. Who were they? Abdulla Ibn Mas’ud, Salim (a freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa), Mu’adh bin Jabal and Ubay bin Ka’b. (Sahih Bukhari 6.61.521).
So definitely, one of these four must have compiled the Koran we have today? Nope. Instead Zayd Ibn Thabit compiled it. Now notice that the first name Mohammed mentioned in the teaching of the Koran was Mas'ud? What did he have to say about today's Koran?
Jami At- Tirmidhi 3104: Az-Zuhri said: "'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah bin 'Utbah informed me that 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud disliked Zaid bin Thabit copying the Musahif, and he said: 'O you Muslims people! Avoid copying the Mushaf and the recitation of this man. By Allah! When I accepted Islam he was but in the loins of a disbelieving man' - meaning Zaid bin Thabit - and it was regarding this that 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud said: 'O people of Al-'Iraq! Keep the Musahif that are with you, and conceal them.
Now not only did ubay (best reciter) disagree with today's Koran, Mas'ud (number one teacher) did too. Let's not even go into Aisha's sheep eating verses on stoning and breastfeeding (more on this if you still want to discuss). Now let's sum this up.
Sahih al- Bukhari 6.61.509 : Narrated Zaid bin Thabit:
Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me when the people! of Yamama had been killed (i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against Musailama). (I went to him) and found 'Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said (to me), "Umar has come to me and said: "Casualties were heavy among the Qurra' of the! Qur'an (i.e. those who knew the Quran by heart) on the day of the Battle of Yalmama, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra' on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest, you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected." I said to 'Umar, "How can you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?" 'Umar said, "By Allah, that is a good project. "Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest for it and I began to realize the good in the idea which 'Umar had realized." Then Abu Bakr said (to me). 'You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. So you should search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Qur'an and collect it in one book)."
So what do we have here? Many reciters of the Koran died in a battle and many of the Korans where lost. So Abu Bakr asked Thabit to compile what was left. I'm not done. Now read the entire passage of Jami At- tirmidhi you will find out that different people had their own different manuscripts. Disputes started to happen on what should be in the Koran and what should be left out. Ibn Mas'ud had 111 chapters according to Ibn Abi Daud, kitab al-masahif. Ubay had 116 while while Zayd had 114 chapters. Check the source, I didn't make this up. So you see? Koran has had its own dispute too.

smallrincowis16:

did you belief in QURAAN THE PROPHET SINCE WARAQA A JEW BELIEF IN HIM?

Hahahhahahahahaha, So waraqa is now a Jew? If waraqa was a Jew that means Muhammad's first Sugar Mummy/wife was a Jew, because he was her Uncle.

You know nothing about Waraqa.

I don't have time to give you a lecture on the origin of the prophethood of pedophile muhammed.

smallrincowis16:
why asking ?

You type like a Pakistani. Try being coherent.

smallrincowis16:

lolsssssssssssss.
i'm bewildered. when we say something is corrupt does that means the thing in its entirety is useless. please read the verses i quoted above. you get to undertand better. QURAN emphasizes it that during the time of prophet S.A.W the truth of the past books were still much avialable but the jews and christian were either changing its judgement or refusing to follow it

And the one the Jews and Christians corrupt is still the one Muslims are killing people who refuses to see Muhammed in it.


Why do you want Muhammed in these corrupt Bibles biko? You no well?

smallrincowis16:
ALLAH kills and bring one to life

Lol. small boy, get out.

analice107:
Lol. small boy, get out.

what is this one saying

analice107:

And the one the Jews and Christians corrupt is still the one Muslims are killing people who refuses to see Muhammed in it.


Why do you want Muhammed in these corrupt Bibles biko? You no well?

who want it in it ? i don't even get you? try to say something understandable

analice107:

Hahahhahahahahaha, So waraqa is now a Jew? If waraqa was a Jew that means Muhammad's first Sugar Mummy/wife was a Jew, because he was her Uncle.

You know nothing about Waraqa.

I don't have time to give you a lecture on the origin of the prophethood of pedophile muhammed.

you given me lectures !!??
I can't stop laughing, did you even know why jews and christian were found in arab pennisular during the time of prophet S.A.W. pls bring your evidences

true2god:
You sound funny. Did Jesus read from the Torah, in the synagogue (not mosque because Jesus was both an ethnic and religious Jew and not a Muslim as you are lied to by your imam and sheik) or not? Where did Jesus see the Torah he read in the Jewish synagogue?

that is the different between islam and Christianit, you have to get evidences in islam before doing anything.
where did you even get the account that Jesus read Torah? pls expatiate your words

true2god:
Here you go again, altaqiyya merchant.

The Koran advised aggression against non-muslims (Qur'an 2:171-172, Quran 9:29-30, Quran 9:5, Quran 8:39, and hundreds other verses ) while the hadith is the narrations of the execution of the Quranic 'revelation'. See sample below:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror, and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (sahih Bukhari 4:52:220)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)". sahih Bukhari 4:52:196.

The instruction above can only be given by a Mafia leader.

who is talking about that here, if you want to learn you create a new thread for it please.
and for clarity, simple answer to your puzzle is that for any evidence in islam, we only use it where the prophet and his students use it.
the question is did the prophet kill anybody unjustly. from all the wars that happened during the time of the propget. pls which one was initiated by him or his student?
if you want to know better about those verses you can contact me privately or create thread

true2god:
You said Waraqa Bin Nawal translated the new testament into Arabic, where is the copy, which library can I find it?

who said that?

[quote author=ilynem post=54895794]
I want you to read this carefully.
Let me start from the beginning.
Sahih al- Bukharin 6.61.510: Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied and ordered that all the other Koranic materials, whatever written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt!
So here we can see that Uthman had already ordered some part of the Koran to be burnt. I didn't write this or make it up. You can confirm. Now let's move on.
Sahih al- Muslim 2286 : Abu Harb b. Abu al-Aswad reported on the authority of his father that Abu Musa al-Ash'ari sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number. They recited the Qur'an and he said: You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you. We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara'at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: "If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust." And we used so recite a surah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it, but remember (this much) out of it: "Oh people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practise" (lxi 2.) and "that is recorded in your necks as a witness (against you) and you would be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection" (xvii. 13).
So from this place you can see that some chapters of the Koran were missing because they were forgotten! Are you following me?
Sahih al-bukari 6.61.527: Ubay was the best of us in the recitation of the Koran. Yet we leave some of what he recites. Ubay says, I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's messenger and will not leave it for anything whatsoever.
Notice that Ubay was one of the four teachers of the Koran who Mohammed recommended that the Koran be learnt from. And yet some things in his recitation are left out of the present Koran. Follow me, let's keep going.
Now who put together the Koran we have today? Zayd ibn Thabit. Was he one of the top four teachers recommended by Mohammed? Nope. Who were they? Abdulla Ibn Mas’ud, Salim (a freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa), Mu’adh bin Jabal and Ubay bin Ka’b. (Sahih Bukhari 6.61.521).
So definitely, one of these four must have compiled the Koran we have today? Nope. Instead Zayd Ibn Thabit compiled it. Now notice that the first name Mohammed mentioned in the teaching of the Koran was Mas'ud? What did he have to say about today's Koran?
Jami At- Tirmidhi 3104: Az-Zuhri said: "'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah bin 'Utbah informed me that 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud disliked Zaid bin Thabit copying the Musahif, and he said: 'O you Muslims people! Avoid copying the Mushaf and the recitation of this man. By Allah! When I accepted Islam he was but in the loins of a disbelieving man' - meaning Zaid bin Thabit - and it was regarding this that 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud said: 'O people of Al-'Iraq! Keep the Musahif that are with you, and conceal them.
Now not only did ubay (best reciter) disagree with today's Koran, Mas'ud (number one teacher) did too. Let's not even go into Aisha's sheep eating verses on stoning and breastfeeding (more on this if you still want to discuss). Now let's sum this up.
Sahih al- Bukhari 6.61.509 : Narrated Zaid bin Thabit:
Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me when the people! of Yamama had been killed (i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against Musailama). (I went to him) and found 'Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said (to me), "Umar has come to me and said: "Casualties were heavy among the Qurra' of the! Qur'an (i.e. those who knew the Quran by heart) on the day of the Battle of Yalmama, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra' on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest, you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected." I said to 'Umar, "How can you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?" 'Umar said, "By Allah, that is a good project. "Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest for it and I began to realize the good in the idea which 'Umar had realized." Then Abu Bakr said (to me). 'You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. So you should search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Qur'an and collect it in one book)."
So what do we have here? Many reciters of the Koran died in a battle and many of the Korans where lost. So Abu Bakr asked Thabit to compile what was left. I'm not done. Now read the entire passage of Jami At- tirmidhi you will find out that different people had their own different manuscripts. Disputes started to happen on what should be in the Koran and what should be left out. Ibn Mas'ud had 111 chapters according to Ibn Abi Daud, kitab al-masahif. Ubay had 116 while while Zayd had 114 chapters. Check the source, I didn't make this up. So you see? Koran has had its own dispute too.[/quote
all this still shows you lack understanding of the least basics in islam, you said those most people that memorise qur'an were killEd in a battle, pls does that mean all?,
also from the hadith you quoted I would have given you explanations on them, but the first thing is that the hadith were from tirmidh which contain fabricated hadith, even if the one you have quotes were to be correct there are lots of explain for each hadith.
this doesn't deviate from the fact that THABIT was a companion, memoriser of qur'an and one of the most knowledgeable from the Sahabah.
also to round up, the prophet had said the what ever my companions are upon are right in islam.
so please what do you proof next?

true2god:
Solve this puzzle first, numerical discrepancies in the koran:

Does Allah's day equal to 1,000 human years (Sura 22:47, 32:5) or 50,000 human years (Sura 70:4)?

According to Sura 56:7 there will be THREE distinct groups of people at the Last Judgement, but 90:18-19, 99:6-8, etc. mention only TWO groups.

There are conflicting views on who takes the souls at death: THE Angel of Death [32:11], THE angels (plural) [47:27] but also "It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death." [39:42]

Angels have 2, 3, or 4 pairs of wings [35:1]; but Gabriel had 600 wings. [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 455]

Since the Quran is never independent of the hadith, should I include thousands of contradictions and superstition in the hadith?

response to your first puzzle, note you can'tcan't understand some verses in the Qur'an without tafseer (exegesis ) see qur'an 3vs74-7




Response:

Answering-islam refers here to Surah 22:47 “Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But God will not fail in His Promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.” and Surah 70:4 “ The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years.” Surah 70:4 refers to the day of judgement, which is confirmed in the next hadith:

Muslim in his Saheeh nr. 987

Abu Hurayrah said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no owner of treasure who does not pay his zakaah, but it will be heated in the Fire of Hell and made into plates with which his sides and forehead will be branded until Allaah passes judgement between His slaves on a Day the length of which will be “like fifty thousand years”, then he see shown his path and whether it leads to Paradise or to Hell. And there is no owner of camels who does not pay zakaah on them, but a soft sandy plain will be prepared for him and they will be made to step on him. Every time the last of them has gone the first of them will return, until Allaah passes judgement between His slaves on a Day the length of which will be “like fifty thousand years”, then he will see his path and whether it leads to Paradise or to Hell.


Now let us take a look at the next hadith:
k
Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 25, Number 3658

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) then said: Rejoice, you group of poor emigrants, in the announcement that you will have perfect light on the Day of Resurrection You will enter Paradise “half a day” before the rich, and that is “five hundred years. “ k

Some scholars interpretated this last hadith to mean “that the day of Resurrection will be 1000 years, since half a day is five hundred years”. If we accept this interpretation there would seem to be a contradiction bewteen the lenght of the day of Resurrection, is it 1000 years or 50.000 years ? However i shall demonstrate that this interpretation of the last hadith is not correct.

One day with our Lord (means: in the afterlife, after the resurrection) is as 1000 years of our Reckoning (see Surah 22:47). In soerah 70:4 we are told that the Day of Resurrection has a measure of 50.000 years in totality (nowhere does Surah 70:4 us tell that one day with our lord is as 50.000 years of our reckoning). This clearly means that that whole period of the day of Resurrection consists of 50 days/periods, since one day with our Lord is as 1000 years. Therefor the Day of Resurrection has: 50.000 / 1000 = 50 days/periods/stages in it , from which each day/period/stage measures a 1000 years ( see Surah 22:47).

Al-Qurtubi Tafsir 70:4

Imam Al-Qurtubi in his tafsir after citing different views on this topic writes:“Yaman related that 50,000 years refers to judgment day, for in it are 50 stations each of which will last for a 1,000 years…”


Now with the correct knowledge regarding this issue we can interpretate the hadith of Sunan Abu Dawud correctly, which tells us that the poor will enter paradise half a day before the rich, which refers to half a day of one (seperate) day/period/stage (which is 500 years) in the “Day of Resurrection”. And “not” the half of the whole Day of Resurrection ! Nowhere does the hadith in Sunan Abu dawud or any other version mention this ! Notice also carefully how the Prophet in the hadith of Sunan Abu Dawud makes a difference/seperation between the Day of Resurrection and “half a day” . When one reads carefully this hadith, one sees that “half a day” not at all refers to half the Day of Resurrection (as some scholars wrongly stated). If the prophet wanted to refer to half the Day of Resurrection he would have said: “You will enter Paradise half “that” day before the rich” . However the Prophet clearly didn’t referred to the whole Day of Resurrection, since he specificly in the hadith uses the expression “half a day” , which clearly refers to another day then the whole Day of Resurrection. In other words theres no contradiction between the quranic verses and hadith regarding this issue if we use the correct interpretation (which is supported by the Quran and authentic hadith). And Allah Almighty knows best.

What about Surah 32:5 ?

Let’s take a look at Surah 32:5 which says:“He regulates the affair from the heaven to the earth; then shall it ascend to Him in a day/period the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.” Ansar Al-'Adl writes: “This verse mentions that the affairs/commands of God descend to earth and return to Him, this period being one thousand years of our reckoning. Alternatively, it may refer to the laws of science, which govern the universe and the period it takes for them to return.” Moreover Ibn Kathir was of the view that this ayah pertains to distance [see: The English translation of “Tafsir Ibn Kathir” , published by Darussalam, Riyadh, Volume 7, Pg., 608].

true2god:
The Bible is not an altaqiyya material that hides the truth. If any prophet did wrong, the bible will point it out so that we can learn from their mistake and avoid making the same mistake. Prophets are also human prone to errors.

Some of the widows Mohammed married are either the widows of men Mohammed killed in battle, eg safiyya in khaiber, or the widow of his sahabas who dies in battle. Most of the widow Mohammed married died in battles led and executed by Mohammed himself.

And again, in Quran 33:37-50, allahh already sanctioned Mohammed to marry any believing woman he wants without restrictions. While allahh asked Muslims to marry a maximum of 4 wives, Mohammed can marry 20 women if he likes. allahh seems to give Mohammed special treatment above all other Muslims.

stop being hypocritical. every prophet was special to Allah that other people. so by the fact that he married more wives he is padepholine? did he married them legally according to islamic rules or not ? did the wives ever object to the marriage? we're they forced to marriage? and were they all comsumatEd? pls think before you talk pls. don't bring your bigotry here. try to think rightly not with anus

true2god:
Solve this puzzle first, numerical discrepancies in the koran:

Does Allah's day equal to 1,000 human years (Sura 22:47, 32:5) or 50,000 human years (Sura 70:4)?

According to Sura 56:7 there will be THREE distinct groups of people at the Last Judgement, but 90:18-19, 99:6-8, etc. mention only TWO groups.

There are conflicting views on who takes the souls at death: THE Angel of Death [32:11], THE angels (plural) [47:27] but also "It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death." [39:42]

Angels have 2, 3, or 4 pairs of wings [35:1]; but Gabriel had 600 wings. [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 455]

Since the Quran is never independent of the hadith, should I include thousands of contradictions and superstition in the hadith?

response to the second puzzle
there are a few points that can be raised to refute this alleged contradiction.
1. The only verse which specifies the number of groups is 56:7. Verses 90:18-19 do not mention the number of groups but only describe two of them. How then can this be considered a contradiction? It is as though I told someone that I have three bedrooms in my house and later on I told them that the bedroom on the right is large and the bedroom on the left is small. Does my not mentioning the third bedroom constitute a contradiction?

2. The elite are a subgroup of the companions of the right. They are mentioned seperately in Chapter 56 to distinguish between those foremost in performing good deeds. This usually occurs when the subset of a group is so distinct from other elements in the group that it can effectively be categorized on its own.
An example is when we commonly differentiate between humans, plants and animals. We often mentions humans seperately from animals, because of the great differences between humans and other animal species. But as we know, humans are merely one species of the Kingdom Animalia, which contains many other species of animals. But because humans are so distinct from the other species, we often categorize them seperately.

3. Lastly, it is the style of the Qur'an to mention some groups seperately for emphasis.
2:98 Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and apostles, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith.
This verse mentions Angle Gabriel and Angel Michael seperately from the other angels, but we know that they are angels themselves. This is simply the Qur'anic style of emphasis.

true2god:
Solve this puzzle first, numerical discrepancies in the koran:

Does Allah's day equal to 1,000 human years (Sura 22:47, 32:5) or 50,000 human years (Sura 70:4)?

According to Sura 56:7 there will be THREE distinct groups of people at the Last Judgement, but 90:18-19, 99:6-8, etc. mention only TWO groups.

There are conflicting views on who takes the souls at death: THE Angel of Death [32:11], THE angels (plural) [47:27] but also "It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death." [39:42]

Angels have 2, 3, or 4 pairs of wings [35:1]; but Gabriel had 600 wings. [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 455]

Since the Quran is never independent of the hadith, should I include thousands of contradictions and superstition in the hadith?

third puzzle


he remaining part of the verse 35:1 says that Allah swt increases in creation what He wills. It is fascinating that the Qur'an answers the allegation someone might raise against this verse, in the verse itself. So while God creates Angels with two, three or four pairs of wings, He has the power to increase this further and is not restricted at all. This is the strongest interpretation and it is supported by Ibn Kathir (d. 1372CE) who says the following in his renowned Tafsir Al-Qur'an Al-Azim:
Among them (angels) are some who have two wings, some have three and some who have four. Some have more than that, as stated in the Hadith mentioning that the Messenger of Allah saw Jibril, peace be upon him, on the Night of the Isra with six hundred wings. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, 2000, vol. 8, p. 120)
So this is the meaning that has been understood by the earlier muslims from the beginning. As Mufti Muhammad Shafi, the late Grand Mufti of Pakistan, writes the following in his tafsir:
And the words: (in twos and threes and fours) are, evidently enough, numerical adjectives referring to (wings) in the sense that the number of the feathers angels have varies from angels to angel. Some have only two wings. Others have three. Still others have four. Even the numbers mentioned here are not comprehensive, rather they are mentioned here just as an example, because it is proven by a Hadith in Sahih of Muslim that Sayyidina Jibra'il (as), has six hundred feathers. (Qurtubi, Ibn Kathir).

Moreover, it is also possible that these three words are numerical adjectives referring to the word (rusulan: bearers of the message) in the sense that these angels who deliver messages from Allah Ta'ala to this world sometimes come in twos or threes or fours. Once again, in this situation too, the number of four is not intended for restriction. It is there just for example because the coming of angels in a much larger number stands proved from the Qur'an itself. (Abu Hayyan in Al-Bahr ul-Muhit).

The next sentence: (He adds to the creation what He wills) means that Allah Ta'ala has the power to increase whatever He wills and as much as He wills in the creation of everything He has originated. This obviously is related to: (ajnihah: wings) in that the feathers and wings of the angels are not something simply restricted to two or four in numbers, for they could be many more than these if Allah Ta'ala so wills. Most commentators say exactly this. (Ma'ariful Qur'an, Maktaba-e-Darul-Uloom, Karachi, 2003, vol. 7, pp. 322-323)

2. We know that human beings cannot see angels in their true form as they are created from light. Therefore, Angel Gabriel assumed an alternative form when the Prophet Muhammad pbuh saw him. This alternate form was described with 600 wings, but it may well be that Angel Gabriel normally assumes a form with less wings. This may have been a temporary state that Angel gabriel was in.

3. It must also be noted that Angel Gabriel is unique in many ways. The Qur'an often mentions him seperately from the other angels for emphasis, and he is referred to in the Qur'an as Ruh Al-Qudus, or the Holy Spirit (not to be confused with the entity bearing the same name from the Trinity). In this verse, Allah describes the Angels who fit into a group called "messengers". it may be that Gabriel is of a group of angels of a higher class.

I doubt that Muhammad if he resurrected today whether he would be able to recite all the verses in the Quran.
Reason is that he was making up things depending on the situation. Like when he received a revelation that he can stay a month away from his wives after they grumbled because he was caught red handed sleeping with one of his harem's maids.
If he did not die in 632AD I'm pretty sure there would have been more verses revealed by Jibril.

smallrincowis16:

that is the different between islam and Christianit, you have to get evidences in islam before doing anything.
where did you even get the account that Jesus read Torah? pls expatiate your words

Seems you have little or no understanding of Christianity; I will assist you. Read the Bible verses below:

Luke 4:16-21
16 - And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 - And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 - The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 - To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 - And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 - And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Take note of three key words:

Custom: The

smallrincowis16:

that is the different between islam and Christianit, you have to get evidences in islam before doing anything.
where did you even get the account that Jesus read Torah? pls expatiate your words

Seems you have little or no understanding of Christianity; I will assist you. Read the Bible verses below:

Luke 4:16-21
16 - And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 - And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 - The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 - To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 - And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 - And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Take note of three key words:

1) Custom: That is the Jewish custom (not Arabian or Islamic custom) which Jesus observed since Jesus was both a religious and ethnic Jew.

2) Synagogue: Jesus prayed and read the Torah (from the book of Isaiah) in the Jewish synagogue (not a mosque because mosques are the inventions of Mohammed and never existed at the time of Jesus).

3) Sabbath: This is the resting day for the Jews and they go to their synagogues (not mosques ) to observe the Sabbath.

I hope you are cleared now that Jesus has nothing to do with the Arab pagan religion of Islam.

smallrincowis16:

who is talking about that here, if you want to learn you create a new thread for it please.
and for clarity, simple answer to your puzzle is that for any evidence in islam, we only use it where the prophet and his students use it.
the question is did the prophet kill anybody unjustly. from all the wars that happened during the time of the propget. pls which one was initiated by him or his student?
if you want to know better about those verses you can contact me privately or create thread

I am sorry bro, you can't lecture me on Islam. I have over 200 videos made by Muslims and non-muslims on your religion. I have videos of Dr. Zakir Naik, Shabir Ali, Joseph Smith, David Wood, Sam Shamoun, Raymond Ibrahim, Anjem Choudary, Bridget Gabriel, Wafa Sultan, etc. I watched their videos, compare their arguments before I reached my conclusion that Islam is a politico-religious movement used by the Arabs to conquer the world. You don't have to believe what I say.

You asked if Mohammed killed anybody unjustly, my answer is 'yes'. Read the biography of Mohammed by ibn Ishaq pages 514 to 518, I have the PDF doc on my laptop, and see things for yourself. This summarized the genocide Mohammed carried out against the people of khaiber, took their property as a war booty (read Allah's instruction in Quran chapter 8 on this), killed Khinana, the husband of safiyya, before sleeping with her. This incident was also recorded in the hadith. Note that one of the sahabas, called Dhiya, already took safiyya as his sex slave before Mohammed took it from him in exchange of seven slaves (sunnah Ibn majjah hadith number 2272).

Mohammed also instigated Muslims to attack anyone who is not a Muslim in Quran 9:29 and also threatened to attack all people and their property except they believe in allahh and him, as the prophet of allahh (sahih Bukhari 4:52:196).

Again bro, you can't lecture me Islam. You will only lie to me.

smallrincowis16:

response to your first puzzle, note you can'tcan't understand some verses in the Qur'an without tafseer (exegesis ) see qur'an 3vs74-7




Response:

Answering-islam refers here to Surah 22:47 “Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But God will not fail in His Promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.” and Surah 70:4 “ The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years.” Surah 70:4 refers to the day of judgement, which is confirmed in the next hadith:

Muslim in his Saheeh nr. 987

Abu Hurayrah said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no owner of treasure who does not pay his zakaah, but it will be heated in the Fire of Hell and made into plates with which his sides and forehead will be branded until Allaah passes judgement between His slaves on a Day the length of which will be “like fifty thousand years”, then he see shown his path and whether it leads to Paradise or to Hell. And there is no owner of camels who does not pay zakaah on them, but a soft sandy plain will be prepared for him and they will be made to step on him. Every time the last of them has gone the first of them will return, until Allaah passes judgement between His slaves on a Day the length of which will be “like fifty thousand years”, then he will see his path and whether it leads to Paradise or to Hell.


Now let us take a look at the next hadith:
k
Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 25, Number 3658

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) then said: Rejoice, you group of poor emigrants, in the announcement that you will have perfect light on the Day of Resurrection You will enter Paradise “half a day” before the rich, and that is “five hundred years. “ k

Some scholars interpretated this last hadith to mean “that the day of Resurrection will be 1000 years, since half a day is five hundred years”. If we accept this interpretation there would seem to be a contradiction bewteen the lenght of the day of Resurrection, is it 1000 years or 50.000 years ? However i shall demonstrate that this interpretation of the last hadith is not correct.

One day with our Lord (means: in the afterlife, after the resurrection) is as 1000 years of our Reckoning (see Surah 22:47). In soerah 70:4 we are told that the Day of Resurrection has a measure of 50.000 years in totality (nowhere does Surah 70:4 us tell that one day with our lord is as 50.000 years of our reckoning). This clearly means that that whole period of the day of Resurrection consists of 50 days/periods, since one day with our Lord is as 1000 years. Therefor the Day of Resurrection has: 50.000 / 1000 = 50 days/periods/stages in it , from which each day/period/stage measures a 1000 years ( see Surah 22:47).

Al-Qurtubi Tafsir 70:4

Imam Al-Qurtubi in his tafsir after citing different views on this topic writes:“Yaman related that 50,000 years refers to judgment day, for in it are 50 stations each of which will last for a 1,000 years…”


Now with the correct knowledge regarding this issue we can interpretate the hadith of Sunan Abu Dawud correctly, which tells us that the poor will enter paradise half a day before the rich, which refers to half a day of one (seperate) day/period/stage (which is 500 years) in the “Day of Resurrection”. And “not” the half of the whole Day of Resurrection ! Nowhere does the hadith in Sunan Abu dawud or any other version mention this ! Notice also carefully how the Prophet in the hadith of Sunan Abu Dawud makes a difference/seperation between the Day of Resurrection and “half a day” . When one reads carefully this hadith, one sees that “half a day” not at all refers to half the Day of Resurrection (as some scholars wrongly stated). If the prophet wanted to refer to half the Day of Resurrection he would have said: “You will enter Paradise half “that” day before the rich” . However the Prophet clearly didn’t referred to the whole Day of Resurrection, since he specificly in the hadith uses the expression “half a day” , which clearly refers to another day then the whole Day of Resurrection. In other words theres no contradiction between the quranic verses and hadith regarding this issue if we use the correct interpretation (which is supported by the Quran and authentic hadith). And Allah Almighty knows best.

What about Surah 32:5 ?

Let’s take a look at Surah 32:5 which says:“He regulates the affair from the heaven to the earth; then shall it ascend to Him in a day/period the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.” Ansar Al-'Adl writes: “This verse mentions that the affairs/commands of God descend to earth and return to Him, this period being one thousand years of our reckoning. Alternatively, it may refer to the laws of science, which govern the universe and the period it takes for them to return.” Moreover Ibn Kathir was of the view that this ayah pertains to distance [see: The English translation of “Tafsir Ibn Kathir” , published by Darussalam, Riyadh, Volume 7, Pg., 608].

If you say that I cannot understand the Qur'an without the tasfir that means the Quran is not self-explanatory and incomplete. It won't be fair for you to use the tasfir to explain away the obvious contradictions in your Quran. The Quran should have cleared up the contradictions by itself without resorting to human assistance (the tasfirs) to do that.

Can we now conclude that the Quran is confusing and not self-explanatory without the tasfir written by men? Can we now say that we cannot fully understand the Qur'an without the tasfir? Why can't allahh make his words clears, why must he make contradictory statements that can only be corrected using the tasfir of Islamic scholars?

What do we follow, the Quran or the tasfir?

smallrincowis16:

stop being hypocritical. every prophet was special to Allah that other people. so by the fact that he married more wives he is padepholine? did he married them legally according to islamic rules or not ? did the wives ever object to the marriage? we're they forced to marriage? and were they all comsumatEd? pls think before you talk pls. don't bring your bigotry here. try to think rightly not with anus

Sorry bro, I won't accept your argument here. Do you mean there are separate laws guiding the prophets of God and another laws guiding ordinary citizens? This is strange!

My question remain, why did allahh ask Mohammed to take unlimited numbers of wives but restricted Muslims to only 4 wives? Why can't Mohammed live by the rules he made?

On the issue of pedophile, Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6 and started sleeping with her when she became 9, while Mohammed was 54. Do you think it's rational for a man of 51 to have a girl of 6 as a wife or finance? Should we accept any form of immoral and irrational behavior because 'our' prophet did it? Come on, its morally wrong for a man of 54 sleeping with a girl of 9, young enough to be his granddaughter.

smallrincowis16:



third puzzle


he remaining part of the verse 35:1 says that Allah swt increases in creation what He wills. It is fascinating that the Qur'an answers the allegation someone might raise against this verse, in the verse itself. So while God creates Angels with two, three or four pairs of wings, He has the power to increase this further and is not restricted at all. This is the strongest interpretation and it is supported by Ibn Kathir (d. 1372CE) who says the following in his renowned Tafsir Al-Qur'an Al-Azim:
Among them (angels) are some who have two wings, some have three and some who have four. Some have more than that, as stated in the Hadith mentioning that the Messenger of Allah saw Jibril, peace be upon him, on the Night of the Isra with six hundred wings. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, 2000, vol. 8, p. 120)
So this is the meaning that has been understood by the earlier muslims from the beginning. As Mufti Muhammad Shafi, the late Grand Mufti of Pakistan, writes the following in his tafsir:
And the words: (in twos and threes and fours) are, evidently enough, numerical adjectives referring to (wings) in the sense that the number of the feathers angels have varies from angels to angel. Some have only two wings. Others have three. Still others have four. Even the numbers mentioned here are not comprehensive, rather they are mentioned here just as an example, because it is proven by a Hadith in Sahih of Muslim that Sayyidina Jibra'il (as), has six hundred feathers. (Qurtubi, Ibn Kathir).

Moreover, it is also possible that these three words are numerical adjectives referring to the word (rusulan: bearers of the message) in the sense that these angels who deliver messages from Allah Ta'ala to this world sometimes come in twos or threes or fours. Once again, in this situation too, the number of four is not intended for restriction. It is there just for example because the coming of angels in a much larger number stands proved from the Qur'an itself. (Abu Hayyan in Al-Bahr ul-Muhit).

The next sentence: (He adds to the creation what He wills) means that Allah Ta'ala has the power to increase whatever He wills and as much as He wills in the creation of everything He has originated. This obviously is related to: (ajnihah: wings) in that the feathers and wings of the angels are not something simply restricted to two or four in numbers, for they could be many more than these if Allah Ta'ala so wills. Most commentators say exactly this. (Ma'ariful Qur'an, Maktaba-e-Darul-Uloom, Karachi, 2003, vol. 7, pp. 322-323)

2. We know that human beings cannot see angels in their true form as they are created from light. Therefore, Angel Gabriel assumed an alternative form when the Prophet Muhammad pbuh saw him. This alternate form was described with 600 wings, but it may well be that Angel Gabriel normally assumes a form with less wings. This may have been a temporary state that Angel gabriel was in.

3. It must also be noted that Angel Gabriel is unique in many ways. The Qur'an often mentions him seperately from the other angels for emphasis, and he is referred to in the Qur'an as Ruh Al-Qudus, or the Holy Spirit (not to be confused with the entity bearing the same name from the Trinity). In this verse, Allah describes the Angels who fit into a group called "messengers". it may be that Gabriel is of a group of angels of a higher class.

You are confusing yourself the more, just because you wanted to clear up a contradiction in your Koran. Your explanation is incoherent bro and I got no time analysis the confusions you put up there. Your Qur'an cannot keep contradicting itself only for you to start using the hadith and the tasfir to clear things up. That means the Qur'an is not dependable and incomplete.

Clash of The Titans

true2god:
If you say that I cannot understand the Qur'an without the tasfir that means the Quran is not self-explanatory and incomplete. It won't be fair for you to use the tasfir to explain away the obvious contradictions in your Quran. The Quran should have cleared up the contradictions by itself without resorting to human assistance (the tasfirs) to do that.

Can we now conclude that the Quran is confusing and not self-explanatory without the tasfir written by men? Can we now say that we cannot fully understand the Qur'an without the tasfir? Why can't allahh make his words clears, why must he make contradictory statements that can only be corrected using the tasfir of Islamic scholars?

What do we follow, the Quran or the tasfir?

I have already quoted a verse for you, you people have a lot of problem, there are some verses you can never know the meaning you either bring the hadith of the prophet s.a.w to explain it or another verse, this is because Allah made qur'an to be revealed some time to explain some current issues during the time of the prophet. even there are so many of the Prophet's word that even his companions have to ask for its meaning to understand it, what now for the Qur'an.
even in our daily communications our language is subjective until the sender clarify some things on the his chooses word. you might get the information wrong




qur'an confirm it that some of the verses in qur'an can't be understood
see Q3vs07

true2god:
You are confusing yourself the more, just because you wanted to clear up a contradiction in your Koran. Your explanation is incoherent bro and I got no time analysis the confusions you put up there. Your Qur'an cannot keep contradicting itself only for you to start using the hadith and the tasfir to clear things up. That means the Qur'an is not dependable and incomplete.

qur'an depends on itself and hadith simple. if that's what you want to hear. how will I know the meaning if the one that it was revealed to never explain it. that's part of the problem faced by christians.