Aminu212:
Guy y d insult na......

###I respect your presence here @Albaqir

# The guy's trademark is Insult and calling name. He simply follow his master, Jabata who is known to be the best in Insulting and name calling and takfiri (declaration of others as unbeliever).

# Unfortunately, the guy (AhluSunnah) is not competent, not even close to competency in having religious dialogue/discussion yet he wants to "teach Islam with Kitab wa Sunnah".

# Thanks sir, I respect your presence the more.

AlBaqir:

very funny you are Iran and Shia obsessed. Instead of you to defend Saudi America, you want to make analogy of wrong + wrong = good. Even if Iran or shia did bad, how's that justify Saudi's violation of what they claimed to believe in? Please put aside sentiment and bigotry, and think once.

Don't try to be a judge in a matter in which you are interested
There is no obsession compared to how you guys have focussed on Saudi Arabia (we have manners of the family of the Prophet and we don't indulge in name calling)
In AyatoLlah Khomeini's last sermon he declared Saudi Arabia your enemy. So we know that Saudi Arabia cannot do anything right in your eyes
since he cannot come back to reverse the fatwa
If you point out that it is wrong for Saudi Arabia to do something, then you should be sure that the leader of your religion is not guilty of same

AlBaqir:

# First, there is a big difference of ideology between Shia Iran and Wahabi Saudi. There are lots of things the Shia Iran allowed that Wahabi Saudi ruled Haram based on her ideology.

Why SHia Iran, why not Rawafid Iran? Be consistent now.

AlBaqir:

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 51:

O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Ibn Kathir writes:

Allah forbids His believing servants from having Jews and Christians as friends, because they are the enemies of Islam and its people, may Allah curse them. Allah then states that they are friends of each other and He gives a warning threat to those who do this.

You can read the rest of the Salafi's tafsir on the verse here:
www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=767&Itemid=60

American government who by all standard represent Israeli government's interest and protect her in her atrocities against Islam and Muslim, and Trump especially have proven to be enemy of Islam, and a threat to Islam and Muslim. Any Muslim, be it individual or nation that make them friend, seek help from them has violate the above ayah.

According to Wahabi or Salafi ideology of any standard which Saudi government claimed to practice, making friend or seeking help from Kuffar and giving honor to them, is haram. Saudi continuously doing all these. Prove me otherwise if you disagree.

Actually the Saudi Madha is Hanbali, although we know that all sunnis are Kuffar in your ideology

You just use the salafi appelation to give the impression that you only dislike the Salafis

Anyway, have you ever fought the Jews? Have you?
And while calling American the big Satan, the Arrogant Power,
Have you not fought with them shoulder to shoulder against Muslims
Whenever the time comes, to fight. your true nature come to light. Laa Ilaha ila Allah means nothing to you, you allign with Kuffar to fight Sunnis

AlBaqir:

# Second, Russian government which Iran continuously work with has not come out to be enemy of Islam and Muslim, at least apparently.

Russia is not the enemy of Muslims while Putin is mocking Allah!!!
How much can you rationalise because of your religion!!!!

Russia is Kuffar country, that was enough for you to query Saudi Arabia. Now you are hairsplitting

From time immemorial, you Shias have worked against the interest of Muslims
Over 2million Muslims were massacred due to your two-timing predecessors who pretended to be trustworthy!
Hussain (RA) and his family were lured to their death by t he false pledge of allegiance
You have never been loyal to Islam

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/14/russia-may-sell-iran-10-billion-worth-of-tanks-and-jets-in-new-a/

And can you please swear by Allah that Iran has never bought weapons from America since the revolution

We have this
Saudi Arabia buys weapons from America, Shia says Saudi America, they are buying from Kuffar etc
Iran buys weapon from America, Shia says We have different ideology etc

^^^

Mr BetaThings, I'm not interested in your untenable excuses and I am not in the mood to drag issues with you. Is Saudi America (I mean the Royal family who rule the country) guilty or not of:

# Violating the law of Rasul shaking hands with non-mahram women?

# Honouring Kuffar with their most decorated medals?

# Making friends, and seeking helps of/from Kuffar?

AlBaqir:


# The guy's trademark is Insult and calling name. He simply follow his master, Jabata who is known to be the best in Insulting and name calling and takfiri (declaration of others as unbeliever).

# Unfortunately, the guy (AhluSunnah) is not competent, not even close to competency in having religious dialogue/discussion yet he wants to "teach Islam with Kitab wa Sunnah".

# Thanks sir, I respect your presence the more.

As nothing remain for the guy head, e start to the insult.
lol(laughing in japan)

we don't need insults here @AhluSunnah
we need examples of bidias.

Jazzaka Allahu khair@Albaqir

AlBaqir:
^^^

Mr BetaThings, I'm not interested in your untenable excuses and I am not in the mood to drag issues with you.

I have said you cannot judge this matter, You can only present facts
I provided points, you call them excuses
Why should I not call your posts excuses and therefore alos untenable

AlBaqir:

Is Saudi America (I mean the Royal family who rule the country) guilty or not of:

# Violating the law of Rasul shaking hands with non-mahram women?

# Honouring Kuffar with their most decorated medals?

# Making friends, and seeking helps of/from Kuffar?

Let me also ask you

Is Iran, the foremost Shia country committed to exporting SHia revolution to every part of the world in line with the instruction of late Ayatollah Khomeini, not guilty of

# Making friends, and seeking helps of/from Kuffar?
# Fighting on the side of Kuffar against people who recite La Illaha Illah Allah?
# Having its representative shaking hand with non-mahram woman?

The OP posted about Bid'ah and you went after Saudi Arabia, instead of focussing on his post. When we speak about Iran you suddenly saw obsession (with Iran)
Who injected issues of specific countries into this thread if not you?

Anyway as soon as you answer, I assure you that I will provide you the answers to your questions

Aminu212:
As nothing remain for the guy head, e start to the insult.
lol(laughing in japan)

we don't need insults here @AhluSunnah
we need examples of bidias.

Jazzaka Allahu khair@Albaqir

While trying to make peace, you should realise something
Don't take sides with people who are not straightforward in their dealings

Somebody insulted another country by changing their name and you don't fault that
The same party turns the argument against another country entirely
The same person is calling somebody or another country/people by the derogatory name Wahabi
The derogatory name for Shias is Rafidi/Rawafid, We don't use it because we have the manners of the Prophet (SAW) and His Family (RAA)


Now the one calling other names is pretending to detest insults
I assure that it is part of the doctrine of Shias to insult and lie against sunnis
I am not sure you want to encourage that

Aminu212:
As nothing remain for the guy head, e start to the insult.
lol(laughing in japan)

we don't need insults here @AhluSunnah
we need examples of bidias.

Jazzaka Allahu khair@Albaqir

VISIT voiceofthesalaf.com and download any lecture you see bida as its title. am tired of talking to a wall. u just wana frustrate me.. well, i will open a new thread on bida.. just for the sake of people who are intrested in it. naming,freedom,nikah(where alfa preaches and do all those trash) every single religion sect created by people(shia, sufi and others),salatu fathi and others,doing zikr rasul didnt approve, using quran verses as contract of aadua,moulid nabiy,walimat quran,saying aniyah loud before salat, puting water in ur mouth after ablution, raising ur finger up and saying adkar after ablution, and many other things..

AlBaqir:


# The guy's trademark is Insult and calling name. He simply follow his master, Jabata who is known to be the best in Insulting and name calling and takfiri (declaration of others as unbeliever).

# Unfortunately, the guy (AhluSunnah) is not competent, not even close to competency in having religious dialogue/discussion yet he wants to "teach Islam with Kitab wa Sunnah".

# Thanks sir, I respect your presence the more.

Lauhhing. . . why would i insult u? abeg what did i say to insult u.. ur imams, komeni and ayatulah that say aesha the wife of rasul that she did adultery, they do rain curses on abu bakr and others.. u said rasul is not a prophet but ali. . U invented ur own quran and hadith.. u people insulted everything islam stands 4. .and u have the gut to say i insult u.. g

Aminu212:
Guy y d insult na......

###I respect your presence here @Albaqir

I never insult him.. he is olodo for real na.. he left rasul and follow komeni.. olodo ni na.. olodo ni awon sufi na.. dem leava rasul and follow baba tijani.. olodo ni won na

BetaThings:




The OP posted about Bid'ah and you went after Saudi Arabia, instead of focussing on his post. When we speak about Iran you suddenly saw obsession (with Iran)
Who injected issues of specific countries into this thread if not you?

# Kindly roll back and read the context in which Saudi Arabia enter the scene.

# The OP is one of those that are firm in their belief of Saudi Arabia being a land of Kitab wa Sunnah. So, pointing out violation of Kitab wa Sunnah by his beloved Saudi, is a way of testing the topic of his thread.


# Before Saudi America are introduced to the fold, several challenges have been put forth to the OP with no sensible reply. Mr BetaThings, why do you chose to comment on Saudi part and try to defend them in their wrongdoing and not the topic and subsequent challenges upon it?

# BetaThings, I cannot help you about Iran or Shia. I am not Iranian representative or every single shia. But I can help you with Shi'ism. Besides, that is not what we are here to dialogue about. However, If you think Iran is wrong, must you use them to justify Saudi's violation of the laws of God?

Your tactics is well known since you have history. You love derailing threads especially when you are ignorant of the challenges (topic) before you. For the sake of clarifications, I will reply you once on this:

BetaThings:

Somebody insulted another country by changing their name and you don't fault that

# Muhammad Ibn Saud and Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab with the help of the British war against the people of Hijaz, massacred them and hijacked the peninsula, and named it after a single person/family, Muhammad Ibn Saud, hence, the name Saudi Arabia.

Is that a name you want me to respect?

How did I come about "Saudi America"? Its because of their grand breaking romance with Trump's administration so far. Like Quran says, " they seek helps from the enemy of God". Obviously you will be raised and addressed by those you associate with.

BetaThings:

The same party turns the argument against another country entirely

# You can see how you jump unjustly. Any sensible person that read this thread will realise its structure: topic, comment and reply. Like I said, Saudi part was a case study under OP's submission (and belief). Before Saudi part, several challenges have been thrown to the OP which you grossly put aside and rushed to defend the wrongdoings of the Saudis. Try to be open minded Mr man.

BetaThings:

The same person is calling somebody or another country/people by the derogatory name Wahabi
The derogatory name for Shias is Rafidi/Rawafid, We don't use it because we have the manners of the Prophet (SAW) and His Family (RAA)

# Oh! Wahabi is derogatory?! Wahabi or Wahabism is derived from Sheik Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab who wage war alongside his compatriot Muhammad Ibn Saud against the people of Hijaz. If naming Hejaz, Saudi after a man and its not derogatory, why would Wahabi or Wahabism be derogatory when it is also derive from a man that help established Saudi?

# By "Wahabi or Wahabism", we meant a country or an individual that uphold the understanding, interpretations and dictates of Islamic beliefs according to Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab. Saudi preserved the lineage of Ibn Abdulwahab for his grand services in establishing Saudi Arabia by making sure that ONLY his family members assumed the office of Mufti in Saudi Arabia, and they preserve his teachings. Even, ISIS, and other terrorist organisations use often his fatawa to perpetrate their deeds.

# Now, kindly tell me the origin of " Rafidha" and how it become derogatory to the "Shia". Shia generally (will) gladly accept being " Rafidha" because of its intended meaning. But when you intend it wrongfully, shia reject it. Why are you running away from Wahabism, Mr Wahabi BetaThings?

BetaThings:

Now the one calling other names is pretending to detest insults
I assure that it is part of the doctrine of Shias to insult and lie against sunnis
I am not sure you want to encourage that

# Where did I pretend to "detest insults"? I have received and tolerated lots and lots of insults on Islam section of NL from the (Sunnis) especially the Salafi/Wahabist. No matter how hard you try to be civil, they will rain insults and propagandas upon you. This crazy AhluSunnah is one of them. My realisation (eye for an eye) made me respond in kind. If you approach me with civility, you will meet me more civil and vice vers.

# NB: I know you will want to reply each of the stated points above. Trust me, I am done with that part. The real issues as par the Op's topic, our challenges to him, and Saudi violations of the law of God are my major concern.

Empiree . .G I rest my case

AhluSunnah:
Em.piree . .G I rest my case

ofc, you have to rest ur case bcus you have no knowledge. You only run your mouth.

Empiree:
ofc, you have to rest ur case bcus you have no knowledge. You only run your mouth.

You do not know what hadith means, you do not know its conditions for authenticity, u do not know how to derive or take proof from kitab wa sunnah to use as proof to practise islam..u do not know imam bukhari did not live with rasul nor he see him nor hear the hadith from him.. u know absolutely n0thing about islam... IMAM BUKHARI was a student of knowledge on hadith who take to tracing every hadith he hear people saying or written down to the source.. like i hear my dad saying his great grandpa said we must n0t eat orange..then my dad asked about what greatgrandpa have said from his father and possible friends of greatgrandpa children(thats called chains of narattion).and when i want to tel my own kids, i said greatgrandpa said we must n0t drink orange(what i said its true bkoz my father have proved it to be right with research).. i hope u understand.. bida drugs&take brains ...mxm

Empiree:
ofc, you have to rest ur case bcus you have no knowledge. You only run your mouth.

Download lectures on hadiths from voiceofthesalaf.com . . .u

[s]

AhluSunnah:
Download lectures on hadiths from voiceofthesalaf.com . . .u

[/s]

AhluSunnah:
You do not know what hadith means, you do not know its conditions for authenticity, u do not know how to derive or take proof from kitab wa sunnah to use as proof to practise islam..u do not know imam bukhari did not live with rasul nor he see him nor hear the hadith from him.. u know absolutely n0thing about islam... IMAM BUKHARI was a student of knowledge on hadith who take to tracing every hadith he hear people saying or written down to the source.. like i hear my dad saying his great grandpa said we must n0t eat orange..then my dad asked about what greatgrandpa have said from his father and possible friends of greatgrandpa children(thats called chains of narattion).and when i want to tel my own kids, i said greatgrandpa said we must n0t drink orange(what i said its true bkoz my father have proved it to be right with research).. i hope u understand.. bida drugs&take brains ...mxm

What is this rubbish. Grow up buddy

Empiree:
ofc, you have to rest ur case bcus you have no knowledge. You only run your mouth.

Absolutely. He not only run his mouth in ignorance like diarrhoea but also arrogant. A trait of his ignorant master Jabata.

AhluSunnah:
Download lectures on hadiths from voiceofthesalaf.com . . .u

You mean you want a reasonable somebody in Empiree to download from your terrorist website? Little wonder you keep on inviting people to that full of hate-speeched and takfiri website. Obviously your terrorist organisation is looking for new recruits that will no longer bow or prostrate for their parents and elders in greetings, that will declare takfir on everybody except themselves, that will continue to rain abuse on every sundry and be menace to the society. You don fail.

AlBaqir:
Your tactics is well known since you have history. You love derailing threads especially when you are ignorant of the challenges (topic) before you. For the sake of clarifications, I will reply you once on this:

Sorry, you are not doing me favour by responding

Everybody has a history. You think you don't?

AlBaqir:
# Muhammad Ibn Saud and Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab with the help of the British war against the people of Hijaz, massacred them and hijacked the peninsula, and named it after a single person/family, Muhammad Ibn Saud, hence, the name Saudi Arabia.

Is that a name you want me to respect?

How did Iran the one you all Twelvershias pledge allegiance to become a Shia country?
Was it not true massacre, oppression and unspeakable torture?
Ibn AlQami was a treacherous Shia who betrayed the trust of the Sunni caliph and single-handedly sold out Muslims to the Mongols leading to the death of about 2milion muslims and the destruction of Baghdad, an event it has not fully recovered given its past glory

Please stop pretending that you detest violence

Nobody is asking you to respect anyone.

I believe the twelver shia sect is a deviant group whose core beliefs amount to shirk - no less
Your 12th Imam, the Mahdi is in hiding because of fear of being killed. You call him Al Qaim. I could have called him "Al quaking in his boots"

But how often do I call Sistani Sextani or Ayyatollah Ayyadollar or Ayyahtoilet

Calling him by what he calls himself is my personal standard based on the way I was brought up

AlBaqir:
How did I come about "Saudi America"? Its because of their grand breaking romance with Trump's administration so far. Like Quran says, " they seek helps from the enemy of God". Obviously you will be raised and addressed by those you associate with.

Signing an agreement to buy arms from American (which Iran has also done from kuffar countries) is nowhere as sinful
as Shias taking up arms to fight Muslims alongside the same America as Shias did in Iraq against Saddam in 2003
and as Shias taking up arms to fight Muslims alongside the same America as Shias did against the Taliban in 2001

You practise double standard a lot!

AlBaqir:
# You can see how you jump unjustly. Any sensible person that read this thread will realise its structure: topic, comment and reply. Like I said, Saudi part was a case study under OP's submission (and belief). Before Saudi part, several challenges have been thrown to the OP which you grossly put aside and rushed to defend the wrongdoings of the Saudis. Try to be open minded Mr man.

You were the first person to introduce Saudi Arabia into this thread
The other commenter, Mr "Aminu212", asked him "is this your definition of Bid'ah?"
But you went ahead to drag KSA into the matter

AlBaqir:
# Oh! Wahabi is derogatory?! Wahabi or Wahabism is derived from Sheik Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab who wage war alongside his compatriot Muhammad Ibn Saud against the people of Hijaz. If naming Hejaz, Saudi after a man and its not derogatory, why would Wahabi or Wahabism be derogatory when it is also derive from a man that help established Saudi?

# By "Wahabi or Wahabism", we meant a country or an individual that uphold the understanding, interpretations and dictates of Islamic beliefs according to Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab. Saudi preserved the lineage of Ibn Abdulwahab for his grand services in establishing Saudi Arabia by making sure that ONLY his family members assumed the office of Mufti in Saudi Arabia, and they preserve his teachings. Even, ISIS, and other terrorist organisations use often his fatawa to perpetrate their deeds.

ISIS perpetrate their deeds mostly against Saudi Arabia and Sunnis
I don't do name calling, sincerely it is your choice if you continue

AlBaqir:
# Now, kindly tell me the origin of " Rafidha" and how it become derogatory to the "Shia". Shia generally (will) gladly accept being " Rafidha" because of its intended meaning. But when you intend it wrongfully, shia reject it. Why are you running away from Wahabism, Mr Wahabi BetaThings?

You can call me anything you like. It does nothing to my belief, temperament and self esteem. It is entirely your call
I admire immensely Sheik Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab
And also Shayk-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah
May Allah have mercy on them both

[quote author=AlBaqir post=58296205]# Where did I pretend to "detest insults"? I have received and tolerated lots and lots of insults on Islam section of NL from the (Sunnis) especially the Salafi/Wahabist. No matter how hard you try to be civil, they will rain insults and propagandas upon you. This crazy AhluSunnah is one of them. My realisation (eye for an eye) made me respond in kind. If you approach me with civility, you will meet me more civil and vice versa.

You used to be civil but over time a core doctrine of your religion - lying upon and insulting Sunnis - caught up with you

[quote author=AlBaqir post=58290325]# The guy's trademark is Insult and calling name. He simply follow his master, Jabata who is known to be the best in Insulting and name calling and takfiri (declaration of others as unbeliever).

AlBaqir:

# NB: I know you will want to reply each of the stated points above. Trust me, I am done with that part. The real issues as par the Op's topic, our challenges to him, and Saudi violations of the law of God are my major concern.

I would appreciate if you would answer my questions on the worse deeds of Shia Iran whose Supreme Leader, Ayyatollah Khamenei you proudly quote as the leader of your religion

AlBaqir:


# So, let's start from where you ran away on your other miserable thread.

1. Nabi, salallahu alayhi wa ahli, propagate Islam by the command of his Lord. These are the methods our Nabi used:

1. He gathered people in the mosque, house, hall, open places and preached Islam

2. He wrote letters to people invited them to Islam

3. He sent emissaries and representatives to far and wide where they teach Islam according to the dictates of Quran and how and what Nabi taught them.

If according to your definition of Bid'ah, that is right, how do you come about using Internet in propagating Islam? Show us a single verse in the holy Qur'an or hadith where Nabi used internet or foretold that something called internet will come and you can use it?

2. Bilal through the dictate and command of Nabi used to go up the minaret and call adhan with a strong voice.

How do you come about using microphone and loudspeaker when there is no dalil for it in the Quran and hadith, and Nabi never foretold it?


3. It has been proven via several sahih ahadith that Nabi never placed his forehead upon rug, tiles, carpet in Sujood during his Salat. He only put his forehead on the natural ground/floor even on a muddy soil (e.g due to rain). He also has a small piece of palm fibre material (natural) to the size of his head where he formed sajdah on. Interestingly, Nabi had praying mat.

Today mosque of your terrorist master Jabata (along hajj camp in Ilorin), and other mosques are either carpeted, rugged or tiled where people placed their forehead on those synthetic materials.

Where's your dalil from the Quran and hadith? Did Nabi foretold that we can place our forehead on those synthetic materials if eventually come?


4. Today, your country of Kitab wa Sunnah, Saudi America have incorporated the use of Telescope instead of the conventional eyesight in sighting the moon for Islamic rites and festivities.

Where's the dalil in Kitab wa Sunnah?

More are still coming In sha Allah.



# You can add that to the list of your regrets or achievement. Do not stylishly derail the topic

As he rightfully said , Bid’ah is any form of WORSHIP that did not exist (at the
time of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam)...So put your 'test' in context as everything you listed above is not an act of worship and mind you saudi arabia is not the criteria

guru1234:


As he rightfully said , Bid’ah is any form of WORSHIP that did not exist (at the
time of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam)...So put your 'test' in context as everything you listed above is not an act of worship and mind you saudi arabia is not the criteria

# What do you mean "any form of WORSHIP"?

# Please I need to know you in other to know exactly how to respond. Are you of Jabata or other than him in thought? This is because when it comes to the definition of "Bid'ah", Sunni/Salafi other than Jabata have different opinion. That's why they are always at loggerheads.


# If that is your definition of Bid'ah, why did Jabata go against using of rosary for Tasbih, and labeled it Bid'ah (a form of worship, according to your definition)? Is using rosary a form of worship? If it is considered a form of worship, then adhan is also a form of worship, why do you allow the use of microphone/loudspeaker but condemned rosary? Both, are meant to aid? More to come. Let's know you first.


# As per Saudi Arabia, I do not say and I never ever believed Saudi is a criteria. Never! We have validly submitted this Saudi issue because Jabata and his followers claimed the Saudis (government) to be epitome of Kitab wa Sunnah, and labeled the country itself as Land of Kitab wa Sunnah.

AlBaqir:



# What do you mean "any form of WORSHIP"?

# Please I need to know you in other to know exactly how to respond. Are you of Jabata or other than him in thought? This is because when it comes to the definition of "Bid'ah", Sunni/Salafi other than Jabata have different opinion. That's why they are always at loggerheads.


# If that is your definition of Bid'ah, why did Jabata go against using of rosary for Tasbih, and labeled it Bid'ah (a form of worship, according to your definition)? Is using rosary a form of worship? If it is considered a form of worship, then adhan is also a form of worship, why do you allow the use of microphone/loudspeaker but condemned rosary? Both, are meant to aid? More to come. Let's know you first.


# As per Saudi Arabia, I do not say and I never ever believed Saudi is a criteria. Never! We have validly submitted this Saudi issue because Jabata and his followers claimed the Saudis (government) to be epitome of Kitab wa Sunnah, and labeled the country itself as Land of Kitab wa Sunnah.

I dont know who jabata is but concerning the use of tasbih some school of taught consider it BIDAH and that stems from the fitnah the ummah has put itself into where some ascribe divinity or special power to a particular tasbih...My opinion is that using of finger as means of counting is better but tasbih is not haram.

guru1234:


I dont know who jabata is but concerning the use of tasbih some school of taught consider it BIDAH and that stems from the fitnah the ummah has put itself into where some ascribe divinity or special power to a particular tasbih...My opinion is that using of finger as means of counting is better but tasbih is not haram.

# So, you and I technically have nothing much to say. The OP is Jabatanian and like I said his master's definition which he abide to100% is what triggered his thread.

# Tasbih in their world is Bid'ah, and every Bid'ah to them is Kufr.

# As per your opinion on Tasbih, I'm afraid the fact that some group abuse something and cause fitnah with it, is not a dalil to condemn it altogether.

AlBaqir:



# What do you mean "any form of WORSHIP"?

# Please I need to know you in other to know exactly how to respond. Are you of Jabata or other than him in thought? This is because when it comes to the definition of "Bid'ah", Sunni/Salafi other than Jabata have different opinion. That's why they are always at loggerheads.


# If that is your definition of Bid'ah, why did Jabata go against using of rosary for Tasbih, and labeled it Bid'ah (a form of worship, according to your definition)? Is using rosary a form of worship? If it is considered a form of worship, then adhan is also a form of worship, why do you allow the use of microphone/loudspeaker but condemned rosary? Both, are meant to aid? More to come. Let's know you first.


# As per Saudi Arabia, I do not say and I never ever believed Saudi is a criteria. Never! We have validly submitted this Saudi issue because Jabata and his followers claimed the Saudis (government) to be epitome of Kitab wa Sunnah, and labeled the country itself as Land of Kitab wa Sunnah.

I know you are a shia and your aim of attacking the issue of "Bidah" is to promote your shia ideology... Please tell us what you believe as a shia or go straight to telling us where u r heading to, I know shia don't like exposing or saying what they believe.

guru1234:


I dont know who jabata is but concerning the use of tasbih some school of taught consider it BIDAH and that stems from the fitnah the ummah has put itself into where some ascribe divinity or special power to a particular tasbih...My opinion is that using of finger as means of counting is better but tasbih is not haram.

TASBIH IS NOT HARAM. . ITS KUFRU. . IF YOU BELIEVE THAT INNOVATION,BIDA,TASHREY is a sin, then tasbih is a sin abi? ..be careful with your fatwa o.

AhluSunnah:
TASBIH IS NOT HARAM. . ITS KUFRU. . IF YOU BELIEVE THAT INNOVATION,BIDA,TASHREY is a sin, then tasbih is a sin abi? ..be careful with your fatwa o.

Those saying it is not haram back thier claim with the following hadith,

1. Sa'd said that he with the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him), visited a woman in front of whom were some date-stones or pebbles which she was using as a beads to glorify Allah. He (the Prophet) said: "I tell you something which would be easier (or more excellent) for you than that. He said (it consisted of saying): "Glory be to Allah" as many times as the number of that which He has created in Heaven; "Glory be to Allah" as many times as the number of that which He has created on Earth; "Glory be to Allah" as many times as the number of that which He has created between them; "Glory be to Allah" as many times as the number of that which He is creating; "Allah is most great" a similar number of times; "Praise (be to Allah)" a similar number of times; and "There is no god but Allah" a similar number of times; "There is no might and no power except in Allah" a similar number of times" .[Reported by al-Tirmizi ].

2. Safiyyah said: "The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) visited me while four thousand seeds were before me, I was using them for Tasbeeh. He asked, 'Did you make Tasbeeh by these'? 'Do you like to know more excellent words than what you had glorified?' She said: 'Please teach me', then He said: 'Say "سبحان الله عدد خلقه" (Glorify be to Allah as many times as the number of that which he has created)" . [Imam Tirmizi ].

guru1234:


I know you are a shia and your aim of attacking the issue of "Bidah" is to promote your shia ideology... Please tell us what you believe as a shia or go straight to telling us where u r heading to, I know shia don't like exposing or saying what they believe.

# Don't shift the goal post please. This isn't about Shiism, or promoting shia ideology. I have opened enough thread already on that. Whatever you think you know about Shi'a is your own personal headache. This is a public forum. Gone are the days of propaganda and pathetic information about anybody.

# I am a viewer and contributor just like yourself on this thread. If you cannot help the OP for who he is, at least you've helped yourself by declaring your thought which is far from the OP's ideology. I wonder wetin concern "shia" here.

# Please let the OP defend himself in line with manhaj.

guru1234 .. the 2nd hadith you quoted is n0t an0ther adkar but to tell her what is better than using tasbih.. he told her to use her hands. and there are other hadiths where rasul indicate using hands... visit islamqa.com to see the hadiths and ulahma explanations on it or better still visit voiceofthesalaf.com and download lectures on it for better understanding

guru1234:


Those saying it is not haram back thier claim with the following hadith,

# So do you see how you can never defend him? Tasbih is simple faah. Using SPOON, FORK to eat is BID'AH i. e KUFR, according to Jabata and his follower.

The problem that all these people calling themselves"Ahlulsunnahs" have is that they don't know what is bidiah.

How can you say using rosary is haram while you use kettle for ablution?
If you say using rosary is haram then use plates for ablution.

What i observe about these group of people is that they are specific with names Not act.
But name is nothing, its the act.

Let Stop All this namings and face the REAL thing.

Wait, Can Calling ourself ahlusunnah, shia, wahabi etc take us to jannah?

Aminu212:
Wait, Can Calling ourself ahlusunnah, shia, wahabi etc take us to jannah?

Absolutely NO. its ur aqeedah, actions and doings that can grant jahnah as long as it is according to rasul.