DoctorAlien:

Fixed.

isn't evolutionary biology a branch or a field under biology

DoctorAlien:


Cannot exist or does not exist (maybe for now)?

Why can a society where 99.9% of the members see nothing wrong with racism, murder and adultery not exist?

Cannot:

dalaman:


A society with 99% of its members as rapist, murderers and racist will exterminate each other out. The society will cease to exist in no time because it is made up of rapist, murderers and racist. They will keep killing, raping and discriminating against each other till they wipe each other off completely.

Proudgorgeousga:


isn't evolutionary biology a branch or a field under biology

DoctorAlien knows best and knows all!

dalaman:


A society with 99% of its members as rapist, murderers and racist will exterminate each other out. The society will cease to exist in no time because it is made up of rapist, murderers and racist. They will keep killing, raping and discriminating against each other till they wipe each other off completely.

Assuming they exist only for the period of time they exist before they "exterminate" each other out. Assuming also that all of them have evaluated the fact that they could exterminate each other out, but have concluded that the death that could occur from their actions is still beneficial to them(just lIke a suicidal person thinks death is the best for him). Can you now answer:

DoctorAlien:


The question is not whether we can find such a society. The question is:

If such a city exists where 99.9% of the members are racists, murderers and adulterers, and they believe and say with reasons known to them that racism, murder and adultery is good and beneficial to them, is racism, murder and adultery not virtually beneficial to the society? If no, who said so and why?

If yes(i.e. that their actions are beneficial to the society), then you must agree that their opinions must matter because this is what you said: "Their opinion is not needed because they haven't shown how their actions are beneficial to the society..."

Now, if their opinions matter, they should be consulted before rules concerning racism, murder and adultery are laid down. And guess what they will say? They will say that racism, murder and adultery are not evil and should be allowed because the racists, murderers and adulterer(which make up 99.9% of the society) believe and proclaim with reasons which they know best that racism, murder and adultery is beneficial to them.

In such a society, should racism, murder and adultery be declared good and allowed? If yes, why? If no, why?

Your question of how rape and murder are beneficial to the society should be channeled to Hitler and those who supported his views. They certainly can tell you how murder (of 6 million Jews) is beneficial to the society.

And when they tell you how murder is beneficial to the society, why should their opinion be inferior to your own opinion(that murDer is not beneficial to the society)?

Proudgorgeousga:


isn't evolutionary biology a branch or a field under biology

Evolution belongs to historical science, and not observational science.

If there can be evolutionary biology, there should be Creationist biology.

DoctorAlien:


Evolution belongs to historical science, and not observational science.

If there can be evolutionary biology, there should be Creationist biology.

if you say so prof. doctoralien

DoctorAlien:


Assuming they exist only for the period of time they exist before they "exterminate" each other out. Assuming also that all of them have evaluated the fact that they could exterminate each other out, but have concluded that the death that could occur from their actions is still beneficial to them(just lIke a suicidal person thinks death is the best for him). Can you now answer:

How is extermination beneficial to a society? Suicide could be beneficial to an individual person for various reasons some of which I can list, but I see NO reason why extermination is beneficial to any society.


Racism, murder and rape have NO benefit to any society at all. It can not be rationally and logical be shown to be beneficial to any society.

dalaman:


A society with 99% of its members as rapist, murderers and racist will exterminate each other out. The society will cease to exist in no time because it is made up of rapist, murderers and racist. They will keep killing, raping and discriminating against each other till they wipe each other off completely.

Such a society does exist already. Isn't the prisons a society often with their own self made laws which do not follow ours?

dalaman:



How is extermination beneficial to a society? Suicide could be beneficial to an individual person for various reasons some of which I can list, but I see NO reason why extermination is beneficial to any society.


Racism, murder and rape have NO benefit to any society at all. It can not be rationally and logical be shown to be beneficial to any society.

I believe I am not the one to determine what is beneficial for people. I also believe you're not the one. If Mr. A(in this case, 99.9% of my society) says that living with someone/something that could kill him is good and beneficial for him, does the opinion of anyone else on whether it is really beneficial to him matter? Is it not really beneficial to him?

butterflyl1on:


Such a society does exist already. Isn't the prisons a society often with their own self made laws which do not follow ours?

No. Prisons are called correctional facilities for a reason. Tell me the name of the prison where murder, rape and racism is allowed to go on unchecked.

DoctorAlien:


I believe I am not the one to determine what is beneficial for people. I also believe you're not the one. If Mr. A(in this case, 99.9% of my society) says that living with someone/something that could kill him is good and beneficial for him, does the opinion of anyone else on whether it is really beneficial to him matter? Is it not really beneficial to him?

The society always determines what is beneficial to its people through its leaders and what is beneficial always changes over time. But as a civilized society that has come about through thousand of years of moral evolution, leaders have come to agree that murdering and rapinh people has no benefit to the society but has many bad effect on the society.

dalaman:


Am not interested in your fictional society. Am only intrested in real human societies that exist. If you want to talk about fictional societies then look for someone to do that with.

If you claim such a society can exist then point to one simple. Am not interested in empty assertions.

An example of a society that consist of 99% murderers, rapist and racist can be found where? And they have shown that their actions is beneficial to the society how?

it can happen if rape , racist and murdering become legal.... Gun usage in american is legal.... And that make violence life style increase....homosexually is legal in the western world and that make homosexual case increase in size....if t is allowed..it will become a culture and it will not be seen as immoral..


On nairaland atheism are free to envagilized their Faith....and that make the silent one among them become notice....


Morality can be subjective... It depend on what you want for yourself.... A community may see woman driving a car as an act of immorality... That is what they want...and that is how the community wanted to operate...


In yoruba culture it is immoral to greet elders while standing ,you have to prostrate.... Whereas it is not a problem in igbo culture....



my questions is , do you consider the above act an immoral?

vaxx:
it can happen if rape , racist and murdering become legal.... Gun usage in american is legal.... And that make violence life style increase....homosexually is legal in the western world and that make homosexual case increase in size....if t is allowed..it will become a culture and it will not be seen as immoral..


On nairaland atheism are free to envagilized their Faith....and that make the silent one among them become notice....


Morality can be subjective... It depend on what you want for yourself.... A community may see woman driving a car as an act of immorality... That is what they want...and that is how the community wanted to operate...


In yoruba culture it is immoral to greet elders while standing ,you have to prostrate.... Whereas it is not a problem in igbo culture....



my questions is , do you consider the above act an immoral?

Sure if the society doesn't see murder as wrong then it will not be wrong. The society determines what is right or wrong. During the time of slavery in the US and Europe the people did not consider slavery to be wrong and most of the owned slaves. During the time of Jim crow in the USA, churches were promoting segregation.


Morality is subjective, that's something I've been arguing for years here.

My point is that every society must operate based on some laid down principles and the modern society that we have built today sees rape, murder and racism as offences and rightly so.

dalaman:


The society always determines what is beneficial to its people through its leaders and what is beneficial always changes over time. But as a civilized society that has come about through thousand of years of moral evolution, leaders have come to agree that murdering and rapinh people has no benefit to the society but has many bad effect on the society.

What right does one have to determine what is beneficial for another person?

In the society where 99.9% of the members see nothing wrong with racism, murder and adultery, If the leaders are among the 99.9%, is nothing wrong with those things?

dalaman:


Sure if the society doesn't see murder as wrong then it will not be wrong. The society determines what is right or wrong. During the time of slavery in the US and Europe the people did not consider slavery to be wrong and most of the owned slaves. During the time of Jim crow in the USA, churches were promoting segregation.


Morality is subjective, that's something I've been arguing for years here.

My point is that every society must operate based on some laid down principles and the modern society that we have built today sees rape, murder and racism as offences and rightly so.

fine ...and this will now birth another question... What is good and what is bad in light of common sense? You will see the importance of God if this questions can be answer genuinely.... I had a topic like this before

DoctorAlien:


What right does one have to determine what is beneficial for another person?

In the society where 99.9% of the members see nothing wrong with racism, murder and adultery, If the leaders are among the 99.9%, is nothing wrong with those things?

Every right. That is why some people must lead others because we are social animals that must coexist and coprate with others whether we like it or not for the benefit of the society as a whole.

There is no society where 99% can see nothing wrong with rape and murder. It just can not exist anywhere.

dalaman:


No. Prisons are called correctional facilities for a reason. Tell me the name of the prison where murder, rape and racism is allowed to go on unchecked.

Prisons are also known as a society. A prison society

society
noun
the aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community

A lot of prisoners live by their own codes and a hierarchy system among themselves so who told you murderers, rapists and racially minded individuals cannot live together respectively according to their self given codes and order of hierarchy?

vaxx:
fine ...and this will now birth another question... What is good and what is bad in light of common sense? You will see the importance of God if this questions can be answer genuinely.... I had a topic like this before

God has nothing to do with human morality. God was used as an enforcing mechanism back in the days but now we don't need God anymore. Even with God everything was permissible. Read the Koran Hadiths and the bible. Even with God all sorts of vices and evil were permissble. The bible even has God repenting of his evil deeds.

dalaman:


Every right. That is why some people must lead others because we are social animals that must coexist and coprate with others whether we like it or not for the benefit of the society as a whole.

There is no society where 99% can see nothing wrong with rape and murder. It just can not exist anywhere.

Who gave the so called leaders the right to decide on what is right for everyone without consulting everyone? How are these leaders sure they are being fair when some people see no problem with murder, rape, incest? And they see the commission of such acts as emotionally beneficial to them.

dalaman:


God has nothing to do with human morality. God was used as an enforcing mechanism back in the days but now we don't need God anymore. Even with God everything was permissible. Read the Koran Hadiths and the bible. Even with God all sorts of vices and evil were permissble. The bible even has God repenting of his evil deeds.

If God was used as an enforcing mechanism back in the day what was God used to enforce?

vaxx:
fine ...and this will now birth another question... What is good and what is bad in light of common sense? You will see the importance of God if this questions can be answer genuinely.... I had a topic like this before

God has nothing to do with morality or our judgement of good/bad. If animals like dogs without gods could distinguish good from bad, why can't humans have better judgements?

dalaman:


God has nothing to do with human morality. God was used as an enforcing mechanism back in the days but now we don't need God anymore. Even with God everything was permissible. Read the Koran Hadiths and the bible. Even with God all sorts of vices and evil were permissble. The bible even has God repenting of his evil deeds.

I don't have a problems with your stand about God.... My question is what is good and what is bad in the light of common sense? OK lets take God away from it...just reply me...

butterflyl1on:


But why would it be wrong if the law supports them especially when it is consensual? Is it that we formulate our own morality and often times do not subscribe to those provided by our governments?

Because there are various forms of contracts.
Consensual sex is an agreement(contract) between the parties involved albeit a verbal one, sometimes implied. Both or more parties to the action must all be in agreement with the terms as well hence why we have issues of rape. One party is not in agreement, we have a violation of their will hence why it is a crime.

Marriage: written contract between two parties who are in agreement to be bound by the terms of the contract. We have the more popular terms in form of the vows made however that can be modified to suit the parties in the agreement,e. g prenuptial martial assets are to be split in other ways apart from the usual 50/50 broadly applied in general cases. Open marriages also abound where spouses are allowed to seek gratification outside the marriage.

I reiterate, as long they are both in agreement at the point of enacting the contract, they are both bound whatever terms they agree to.

So if a spouse breaches the terms of the contract, it renders the agreement void and the other party is free to seek redress. The laws of the land is not concerned with morality, they are concerned breaches in original agreement and as such do not apportion blame or say something is right or wrong.

With relationships, there is no legally binding agreement hence yes you are free to indulge if you wish just like the other party is free to walk away if they deem it unacceptable.

Where the actual act is not consensual, then that is a criminal matter as one party has been denied of their right and violated. It is akin to theft, you have no right over another's property (I. E body) without prior consent. Again, morality has no place in this discourse.

chemystery:
God has nothing to do with morality or our judgement of good/bad. If animals like dogs without gods could distinguish good from bad, why can't humans have better judgements?

animal like dog really distinguished good from bad? Any evidence.....I want us to keep to the topic of discussion... I will have ask you another questions relating your assumptions about dog? To keep the thread safe....what is good and bad in the light of common sense...

chemystery:
God has nothing to do with morality or our judgement of good/bad. If animals like dogs without gods could distinguish good from bad, why can't humans have better judgements?

So far as we know, animals can't be moral or immoral because so far as we know they don't think about it that way.

That is to say that any assignments of the "morality" of their actions are based entirely upon our interpretations of, and our assignment of our values to their actions. This is called inference. We humans are exceptionally good at it.

Thinking about the actions of others (and ourselves) as "moral" or "immoral" seems to be a uniquely human trait So you can tell a story about an Evil animal or a good animal but it is only meaningful in the context of your story. The animals don't know,or care.

For OP, perhaps I should ask what it means to YOU to be human.

dalaman:


Every right. That is why some people must lead others because we are social animals that must coexist and coprate with others whether we like it or not for the benefit of the society as a whole.

There is no society where 99% can see nothing wrong with rape and murder. It just can not exist anywhere.

But you already agreed that such a society could exist, just that it would be short-lived(because the members would "exterminate" each other out, according to you):

dalaman:
A society with 99% of its members as rapist, murderers and racist will exterminate each other out. The society will cease to exist in no time because it is made up of rapist, murderers and racist. They will keep killing, raping and discriminating against each other till they wipe each other off completely.

Nobody really cares if the society would exists for 1 second or for 1 trillion years before they "exterminate each other out". The fact is you agree they could exist.

You are contradicting yourself, sir.

Again, going by your assertion that the society in which 99.9% of the members see nothing qrong with racism, murder and adultery could exist at all(be it for 1 second or for 1 trillion years before the extermination occurs): if the leaders in the society are among the 99.9%, is nothing wrong with those things?

just like as I said in the beginning this thread is about god

vaxx:
I don't have a problems with your stand about God.... My question is what is good and what is bad in the light of common sense? OK lets take God away from it...just reply me...

It has to do with our instinct towards accessing and distinguishing benefit from harm.

shaybebaby:

Because there are various forms of contracts.
Consensual sex is an agreement(contract) between the parties involved albeit a verbal one, sometimes implied. Both or more parties to the action must all be in agreement with the terms as well hence why we have issues of rape. One party is not in agreement, we have a violation of their will hence why it is a crime.

Marriage: written contract between two parties who are in agreement to be bound by the terms of the contract. We have the more popular terms in form of the vows made however that can be modified to suit the parties in the agreement,e. g prenuptial martial assets are to be split in other ways apart from the usual 50/50 broadly applied in general cases. Open marriages also abound where spouses are allowed to seek gratification outside the marriage.

I reiterate, as long they are both in agreement at the point of enacting the contract, they are both bound whatever terms they agree to.

So if a spouse breaches the terms of the contract, it renders the agreement void and the other party is free to seek redress. The laws of the land is not concerned with morality, they are concerned breaches in original agreement and as such do not apportion blame or say something is right or wrong.

With relationships, there is no legally binding agreement hence yes you are free to indulge if you wish just like the other party is free to walk away if they deem it unacceptable.

Where the actual act is not consensual, then that is a criminal matter as one party has been denied of their right and violated. It is akin to theft, you have no right over another's property (I. E body) without prior consent. Again, morality has no place in this discourse.

You do not seem to understand my OP. In a nutshell is what the law terms as criminal what it is?

If the law says there is nothing wrong with consensual sex between adults who are not married or who are married to different spouses does it make the act of adultery or fornication right?

If not, why should I then view it as wrong when societal laws do not declare them so. Are my own moral positions on the matter greater or more respectable than what the law of the land interpreted? If so, why?

Criminality and morality run side by side. Or is criminality now no longer immoral? Is criminality now also moral?

If the criminal law says adultery which is consensual is not wrong why then do we say it is?

chemystery:

It has to do with our instinct towards accessing and distinguishing benefit from harm.

Is your instinct always right? How do you assess this instinct of yours? What litmus test does it pass through before you present it as viable? What you see or term as helpful can be seen as not helpful by others.

What your instincts term as good can be seen as harmful by others. How then do you tell the difference based on the varied reactions from people who also have their own instincts and also believe theirs is right

butterflyl1on:


Prisons are also known as a society. A prison society

society
noun
the aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community

A lot of prisoners live by their own codes and a hierarchy system among themselves so who told you murderers, rapists and racially minded individuals cannot live together respectively according to their self given codes and order of hierarchy?

Murderers, rapist and racist don't go about murdering, raping and discriminating against each other in the prison. Once they get there they try to live their lives according to the laid down laws and principles of the prison.