vaxx:
this is not true,Neanderthal were better survival like human...where are they today?

Our past generation fought first and second world war for survival ....one develop interest to rule over his peers due to selfish interest...


If selfishness is not consider moral, why the war?

When we migrated to Europe, we killed them because we were competing against them for resources. Ofcourse because we had evolved larger brains, we were more technologically advanced(tools etc) we gained the upper hand. Although not before some fvcking. Some people carry their genes today.

And for every time we have conflicts like that, the same human species enacts rules to try to prevent such instances repeating itself in the same manner. Eg, the European convention of human rights was formed in response to what?
Yup! You guessed it! The second world war. And this has resulted in 70 years of peace in western Europe.

Why do we bother? To ensure survival of our species.
In 2030 or thereabouts, we are planning the first manned voyage to the red planet to establish the first colony. Life there is already being simulated here in preparation for those who are making that one way journey.

Why? Because we are already overpopulated, because we may suffer a natural disaster that will wipe us out(maybe nuke ourselves) etc

Should earth ever become uninhabitable, we are already looking for a home outside. TO ENSURE THAT OUR SPECIE SURVIVES.

Again, what place has morality got in all of that?

dalaman:


Empty assertion, how is it beneficial to the society?



In this case it is NOT murder. Eliminating anybody that is a threat to national interest or peace of the society as a whole is NOT murder. Most societies encourage that as a matter of fact.



I didn't say you should tell me why rape is beneficial to some fraudulent person that wants to use it to get grants. You are to tell me why it is beneficial to the society as a whole.



People doing these acts are violating the laws of the land. I am ot asking for examples of fraudulent people. I just want to know the general benefit of rape to a society at large.

Chai.

If killing can be interpreted to mean murder or assassination does it mean killing of a person never took place?

If I murder someone for the sake of the society, to me it is murder but for the societal laws to make it legal or give me a cover they can change it to "I eliminated a national threat"

Does that mean I did not commit murder?

DoctorAlien:


Sir, but you were the one that agreed that the leaders determine what is beneficial/right for the society.

You also agreed that the probability of a society where 99.9% of the members say each that racism, murder and adultery is beneficial to them, and where the leaders of the society are among the 99.9%, to exist is not 0. (We don't care whether the society exists for just 1 second or for 1 trillion years.)

In such a society, would the leaders deem racism, murder and adultery beneficial / good for the society? If yes, are these things really good?

If they would not deem them good, why?

(I don't understand why you're asking me to tell you how those things are beneficial to the society. Am I part of the society? )

You can start by telling me how the leaders will deem rape as beneficial to the society. Let's begin from there.

shaybebaby:

When we migrated to Europe, we killed them because we were competing against them for resources. Ofcourse because we had evolved larger brains, we were more technologically advanced(tools etc) we gained the upper hand. Although not before some fvcking. Some people carry their genes today.

And for every time we have conflicts like that, the same human species enacts rules to try to prevent such instances repeating itself in the same manner. Eg, the European convention of human rights was formed in response to what?
Yup! You guessed it! The second world war. And this has resulted in 70 years of peace in western Europe.

Why do we bother? To ensure survival of our species.
In 2030 or thereabouts, we are planning the first manned voyage to the red planet to establish the first colony. Life there is already being simulated here in preparation for those who are making that one way journey.

Why? Because we are already overpopulated, because we may suffer a natural disaster that will wipe us out(maybe nuke ourselves) etc

Should earth ever become uninhabitable, we are already looking for a home outside. TO ENSURE THAT OUR SPECIE SURVIVES.

Again, what place has morality got in all of that?

And I have told you that as long as interest is there for the "specie" of humans, morality is inherent.

butterflyl1on:


Chai.

If killing can be interpreted to mean murder or assassination does it mean killing of a person never took place?

If I murder someone for the sake of the society, to me it is murder but for the society laws to make it legal or give me a cover they can change it to "I eliminated a national threat"

Does that mean I did not commit murder?

The dictionary defines murder as:

murder
ˈməːdə/
noun
1.
the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

Killing an enemy of the state is NOT murder because it is NOT unlawful.

butterflyl1on:


No. Their survival knows no morals except that imposed on them by us. We are the moral agents and we are the ones who interpret morality in accordance to our perspective. The animals know nothing and do not care.

They care enough to want to survive. They know nothing yet they migrate across the serengeti in search of water during a drought?

Or salmon which is salt water fish migrating up fresh water rivers to lay their eggs in order to give them a better chance at survival than if they were in the sea?

Different methods, same results. Survival our species. Where is morality?

dalaman:


You can start by telling me how the leaders will deem rape as beneficial to the society. Let's begin from there.

Would the leaders not deem rape as beneficial to the society if ALL of them are of the view that rape is really good and beneficial to them as individuals and to the society(despite what your opinion on rape is)?

If they would, is rape really good?

dalaman:


The dictionary defines murder as:

murder
ˈməːdə/
noun
1.
the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

Killing an enemy of the state is NOT murder because it is NOT unlawful.

So killing an enemy of the state is not murder because a pen and paper says it's not?

It's not unlawful that you murdered a man because he is seen as an enemy of the state and the law said for such death is allowed. In other words you got a license to kill in a premeditated manner.

butterflyl1on:


And I have told you that as long as interest is there for the "specie" of humans, morality is inherent.

And I am saying that we are driven by the same need present in other species, survival.
Morality is not inherent in them, neither is it us. It is a construct by humans which can be deconstructed and is when it does not aid survival.

DoctorAlien:


Would the leaders not deem rape as beneficial to the society if ALL of them are of the view that rape is really good and beneficial to them as individuals and to the society(despite what your opinion on rape is)?

If they would, is rape really good?

You are still not answering my questions. What reasons can the leaders give for rape being beneficial to the society?

shaybebaby:

They care enough to want to survive. They know nothing yet they migrate across the serengeti in search of water during a drought?

Or salmon which is salt water fish migrating up fresh water rivers to lay their eggs in order to give them a better chance at survival than if they were in the sea?

Different methods, same results. Survival our species. Where is morality?

Animals simply want to survive. Their response is natural to them.

Humans do not simply want to survive and in the process become like animals. We guide ourselves consciously through moral laws. Animals hold no such order or response. Anything they do is as in the wild. No control, no care.

Salmons and the like simply respond to natures call to spawn and it has nothing to do with morals

butterflyl1on:


So killing an enemy of the state is not murder because a pen and paper says it's not?

It's not unlawful that you murdered a man because he is seen as an enemy of the state and the law said for such death is allowed. In other words you got a license to kill in a premeditated manner.

Sure, so long as the society says it's not unlawful then it remains so. It is not murder. People that execute criminals are not murderers.

shaybebaby:

And I am saying that we are driven by the same need present in other species, survival.
Morality is not inherent in them, neither is it us. It is a construct by humans which can be deconstructed and is when it does not aid survival.

If you say morality is a human construct would you rather not have them?

shaybebaby:

When we migrated to Europe, we killed them because we were competing against them for resources. Ofcourse because we had evolved larger brains, we were more technologically advanced(tools etc) we gained the upper hand. Although not before some fvcking. Some people carry their genes today.

And for every time we have conflicts like that, the same human species enacts rules to try to prevent such instances repeating itself in the same manner. Eg, the European convention of human rights was formed in response to what?
Yup! You guessed it! The second world war. And this has resulted in 70 years of peace in western Europe.

Why do we bother? To ensure survival of our species.
In 2030 or thereabouts, we are planning the first manned voyage to the red planet to establish the first colony. Life there is already being simulated here in preparation for those who are making that one way journey.

Why? Because we are already overpopulated, because we may suffer a natural disaster that will wipe us out(maybe nuke ourselves) etc

Should earth ever become uninhabitable, we are already looking for a home outside. TO ENSURE THAT OUR SPECIE SURVIVES.

Again, what place has morality got in all of that?

no scientific evidence suggest human are the cause of Neanderthals extinction.... The cause is a natural phenomenon...and no scientific evidence suggest we are smarter than them....they .may be more intelligent than us due to their larger brain..


Europe may be peaceful than Asia and Africa....butbit is not peaceful... Take Russia and Ukraine as a case study....what about frequent terrorist attack in UK, ,Germany ,and France...


Human has been a selfish figure from day one We always want to get control over everything....


My question again is selfishness a moral act?

vaxx:
this is also very subjective..... Swizerland consider prostitution legitimate profession simce it brings revenue to the national pulse of the coumtry ..despite the medical implications... Saudi Arabia consider it illegal despite the amount of cash it can raised to the pulse of the economy.... Have you seen its subjective? So to the questions what is good and bad in the light of common sense?

No, wherever prostitution is legalised, it is to prevent exploitation, trafficking and to give protection to sex workers.

Better to regulate them out in the open, where they can be protected that drive them underground where the previous points mentioned which are far more deleterious to them, can happen.

And yes, why shouldn't they pay taxes too from their trade? They drive on roads, they rely on the police for protection, they use hospitals etc. It is only fair they contribute their fair share.

dalaman:


Sure, so long as the society says it's not unlawful then it remains so. It is not murder. People that execute criminals are not murderers.

Execute and criminals are just words.

Human societal laws simply evolve as our interests pique or wane in those directions and how then can this make anything stable when today we even have people getting married to objects like cars, chairs, shoes. Where then do societal laws find its limits .

butterflyl1on:


So killing an enemy of the state is not murder because a pen and paper says it's not?

It's not unlawful that you murdered a man because he is seen as an enemy of the state and the law said for such death is allowed. In other words you got a license to kill in a premeditated manner.

Soldiers do.

DeSepiero:


Soldiers do.

Does it still not make it murder simply because someone wrote on paper that it's Okay to kill an enemy of state?

shaybebaby:

No, wherever prostitution is legalised, it is to prevent exploitation, trafficking and to give protection to sex workers.

Better to regulate them out in the open, where they can be protected that drive them underground where the previous points mentioned which are far more deleterious to them, can happen.

And yes, why shouldn't they pay taxes too from their trade? They drive on roads, they rely on the police for protection, they use hospitals etc. It is only fair they contribute their fair share.

your answer is both yes and no....that is a disagreement....

You just tick one of the cause of prostituttion legalization

And you also tick another important cause....to raised physical cash....


The western will not legalized what is not economical gainful....

vaxx:
no scientific evidence suggest human are the cause of Neanderthals extinction.... The cause is a natural phenomenon...and no scientific evidence suggest we are smarter than them....they .may be more intelligent than us due to their larger brain..


Europe may be peaceful than Asia and Africa....butbit is not peaceful... Take Russia and Ukraine as a case study....what about frequent terrorist attack in UK, ,Germany ,and France...


Human has been a selfish figure from day one We always want to get control over everything....


My question again is selfishness a moral act?

It is neither moral nor immoral.

vaxx:
your answer is both yes and no....that is a disagreement....

You just tick one of the cause of prostituttion legalization

And you also tick another important cause....to raised physical cash....


The western will not legalized what is not economical gainful....

Which means what their idea of morality in some cases is based on their selfish interest even when it is wrong as long as it benefits them then with a stroke of a pen they can make it legal.

vaxx:
your answer is both yes and no....that is a disagreement....

You just tick one of the cause of prostituttion legalization

And you also tick another important cause....to raised physical cash....


The western will not legalized what is not economical gainful....

Then why haven't we legalised drugs?

shaybebaby:

It is neither moral nor immoral.

so what human aspect does it fall to....greediness I suggest

shaybebaby:

Then why haven't we legalised drugs?

The issue is not solely about you but about what is generally acceptable as a standard for morality.
We have about 30 countries today who have legalised marijuana. Why did they legalise it even when other countries have not.

dalaman:


You are still not answering my questions. What reasons can the leaders give for rape being beneficial to the society?

I don't understand why you'really asking me. Anyway, the leaders could reason like this: "99.9% of the people say that it is good for them. Therefore rape is good for 99.9% of the society. If so, then rape is good for virtually everyone on the society. Therefore, rape is good for the society."

So, having come up with this reason, they deem rape good. Is rape really good?

shaybebaby:

Then why haven't we legalised drugs?

some state in the USA has legalized cannabis why Netherlands has legalized it too...

butterflyl1on:


Does it still not make it murder simply because someone wrote on paper that it's Okay to kill an enemy of state?

You may want to make a point straight up because it seems like a rigmarole.
Laws are made for the greater good of a society and not necessarily for individual profit.

butterflyl1on:


If you say morality is a human construct would you rather not have them?

I'm indifferent. I have no use for morality.

DeSepiero:


You may want to make a point straight up because it seems like a rigmarole.
Laws are made for the greater good of a society and not necessarily for individual profit.

The one murdered was he not also part of the greater good of a society?

shaybebaby:

I'm indifferent. I have no use for morality.

Case closed! So anything is permissible for you.

vaxx:
some state in the USA has legalized cannabis why Netherlands has legalized it too...

Hardly representative of the West.

shaybebaby:

Hardly representative of the West.

when you are talking about west. USA is a power house .that can not be downsized... Netherlands is another strong force again