Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical - Religion - Nairaland
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| Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by vaxx: 10:22pm On Oct 13, 2017 |
I am a contingent (subject to chance)and likewise you... I could easily have failed to exist, in fact ,at one time, I did not exist, and in the future , I will cease existing, that proves I am not necessary... If so there must have been a cause of my existence , may be my parents who brought me into existence right.... Likewise the physical universe we are is also contingent.... Therefore for the physical world to also be contingent, it need an external cause just like I do.. So who is the external cause..... Note...this work is dedicated to ancient philosopher called Avicenna... This is a paraphrase copy... I add my own thought..... |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by johnydon22(m): 11:45pm On Oct 13, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord: 1 Like |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by vaxx: 12:04am On Oct 14, 2017 |
[quote author=johnydon22 post=61399880][/quote]let's deal with p3..existence did not not came from nothing ..it really address the op... Where did the existence came from? |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by adepeter2027(m): 12:35am On Oct 14, 2017 |
I don't even care about nothing and something anymore. All I know is; there is nothing like nothing |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by chemystery: 1:01am On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx:Yes, there must be an external cause, and that external cause should also have an external cause which should also have an external cause which should have an external cause.... With such logic, we will end up plunging into an infinite loop. And it will only be irrational, dubious and insincere for any adherent of such logic to truncate the loop wherever pleases him to be the end and final solution 1 Like |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 7:41am On Oct 14, 2017 |
Simple: because NOTHINGNESS is an IMPOSSIBILITY. There is no such thing as NOTHING. If there ever was, there could NEVER have been something, because nothing comes from nothing. Every form of "nothing" is still nothing but something! Nonexistence is simply an ABSOLUTE IMPOSSIBILITY. If it were possible, we wouldn't be here. Since we exist, then there was never a time when there was NOTHING, and there would never be. Tozara 9 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by vaxx: 9:41am On Oct 14, 2017 |
chemystery:The external cause is not the same with physical universe, therefore it is not limited to the theory of the physical universe which demand a cause to have a causer .. It is the first causer, therefore every other cause depend on him.. Long chain of infinite explanation is useless, it will render the whole philosophical explanation useless... Every question you know has a potential of infinite explanation.... You should know..so arguing from that angle is terrible to natural philosophy and mainstream philosophy . If you can't put natural philosophy and mainstream philosophy in a box ,why are you putting external cause in a box... Natural philosophy explain that the universe was sparked by the big bang.why don't you question the caused and likewise question the cause of the caused if big bang has a caused...you will realised doing so will make the theory called big bang useless.. As a I said who is the external cause Or what should we call it |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by vaxx: 9:43am On Oct 14, 2017 |
ToZaraWithaZ:good point...so where those the something came from? |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by chemystery: 10:07am On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx:Where did you get your fact from that the external cause is not same with the universe? Even if this your wishful thought is right, then what if this your external cause have another external cause which exist outside every known and measurable construct of your external cause? Like I said earlier, it is illogical, insincere and dubious to truncate logical progressions wherever we think suites our existing beliefs or understanding of life without backing such moves with substantial evidence 1 Like |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by vaxx: 10:58am On Oct 14, 2017 |
chemystery:if you check My op. You will realize I made myself as a contigent... That will require an external cause to exist...which I even demonstrate that my external cause is my parent.. My parent are not me...we are different entity..I require my parent to exist but my parents do not not require me to exist The same logic is use with the universe... The physical universe has an external cause.. This external cause do not require the universe to exist but the universe require the external cause to exist.... So what is the external cause? the external cause is the first causer of the physical universe ,therefore it is not bound with the same theory of the universe.. The question once again...why do you put the external cause in a box when you can't put natural philosophy and mainstream philosophy in a box!l 1 Like |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 11:07am On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx:I don't think you get the point. If nothing CANNOT exist, then it means something has always existed in one form or the other. Even when it looks like "nothing", it MUST be something - because nothing, by definition, is nonexistence, and nonexistence is IMPOSSIBLE, cos if it were possible, we wouldn't exist, and there's never any point where nonexistence could magically transform into existence. So, something couldn't have come from anywhere since it DIDN'T begin to exist. It has ALWAYS BEEN! Existence = something. And existence can neither be CREATED nor DESTROYED. It can only be TRANSFORMED from one form to another. So, the physical universe, if it began to exist, must have been the TRANSFORMATION of some form of existence or energy into the Big Bang that created it. It's IMPOSSIBLE for it to have been drawn out of the hat of nothingness by some mysterious cosmic magician. Tozara 1 Like |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by vaxx: 11:25am On Oct 14, 2017 |
ToZaraWithaZ:if I get you logic clear now...the physical universe must have been a product of some energy transformation...which means the transformation itself is a process.. The question here is what causes the process of the transformation of the energy into the big bang that created the process...,? with this acceptance. Nothing comes from nothing.. Therefore the process that spark the transformations of the energy must have been spark by another process... So what is the process? . |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by johnydon22(m): 11:55am On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx: refer to C1 |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by vaxx: 11:58am On Oct 14, 2017 |
johnydon22:am dealing with the c1 with tozara , you can continue from there. |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 12:08pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx:I don't know. And I'm pretty sure you don't either. |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 12:14pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx: Perfect, this is deep mystery...I salute your brilliance...Even in pitch darkness, there is constant vibration, i.e. burst of energetic particles constantly vibrating within it... That's God, simply put...There's nothing like nothing. Nothing doesn't exist 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 12:19pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx: I disagree with Likewise the physical universe we are is also contingent.... If the universe were an alternative, then there wouldn't be basis for prioritizing and optimizing things. |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by vaxx: 1:00pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
ToZaraWithaZ:OK , I cast an hypothesis ....it is an imteligent being more Superior than human .. I cast the hypothesis based on the theory of probability .... According to encyclopedia Britannica.... It defined probability as thus... The outcome of a random event cannot be determined before it occurs, but it may be any one of several possible outcomes. The actual outcome is considered to be determined by chance. so we can work on this premises to acertain the possibility of the inteligent being .... Should we? |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by vaxx: 1:01pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
supersystemsnig:I will like you to paraphrase this your post..i can't get it. |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 1:19pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx:I already pointed out the IMPOSSIBILITY of a creator God for the simple reason that it is IMPOSSIBLE to create something that did not exist before since nothing cannever become something, nor can non-existence become existence. The universe is therefore eternal. EVERYTHING that exists HAS ALWAYS existed in one form or the other. Nothing new can come into existence, nor can anything go out of existence. So, a creator God that creates an entire universe OUT OF NOTHING is impossible. Plus, for any supreme being to EXIST, he would have to be existing SOMEWHERE! So, who created that domain he was already occupying? And who created whosoever created that domain? And so on.......... we have an infinite regress. So, the only rational answer is that the universe is eternal, and doesn't depend on anything for its existence. There is a sufficient reason for the universe to exist on its own because EXISTENCE IS ETERNAL; nothingness is impossible. So, anything that exists now has existed, and would exist forever. The only thing that occurs is transformation and change. The universe needs no creator. Stop conjuring up an impossible being and making up INVALID hypotheses. Tozara 3 Likes |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 1:34pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx: There mere possibility of the chance to improve on things eliminates the principle of a contingent plan, cause otherwise, like a wand, one can easily return, correct things and make the future flawless,like eliminate a quintessential threat like a nuclear bomb, the mere existence of flaws and errors and consequences eliminates the thought of this present-verse being, a contingent |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by vaxx: 1:41pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
ToZaraWithaZ:I demand for the process... You said , you don't know. But I know, an i am telling you the process is intelligent being? I expect you to ask me for a proof. the question you raise had been answer...go through my chart with chemistry on this same thread... The external cause is not part of the physical universe...therefore he is not bound by the theory of this universe which require everything to have a cause... First mover don't have a mover... First cause don't have a causer.. We are not here to have infinite degrees of explanation... It seems you are also putting the external cause into a box...why are you not doing the same with natural philosophy...? 2 Likes |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 1:42pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx: All of these facts can be proclaimed as subjective. People can't be coerced into accepting our views if they want to speculate and find things out themselves... Don't force it 2 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by vaxx: 1:44pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
supersystemsnig:no bro...I want him to have a rethink....our brain is powerful.... Let me hear from him |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 1:46pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx: Yes. Well if matter constantly vibrates with energy, and dark matter contain energy, then it's perfectly normal to say let's investigate the origins..People delude themselves of the facts when it stares them in the faces, i mean the perfect relativity throughout all forms of life is a pointer to an undisputable fact if only we would take the veil of our faces and see things as they are...There is nothing called nothing bro, cause nothing is the aftermath or rather a reflection of something as this multiverse itself 1 Like |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 1:51pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx:You demanded for the process of how the physical universe came about....... and I said I DON'T KNOW. But that the Universe as a whole [the Universe might go beyond the physical universe] is uncreated and eternal - now, that's what I KNOW. Your created God hypothesis contradicts that FACT. When I say Universe, I'm not refering to the physical universe which started with the big bang...... I'm going beyond that. Refering to the whole of existence itself. Afterall, UNIVERSE means EVERYTHING that exists. Tozara 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 1:58pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
ToZaraWithaZ: If you can't probe the flow of matter to its origin, then you shouldn't pin the universe to any truths. Suffice to say, all things begins with a starting point. To be accurate in thesis, it requires a thorough understanding of process, and its origins as its indicative of how things come to be, without the holistic understanding of all these put together, whatever ideologies put forward would be like an old man leaning on a cane. You need to do more private studies brov, otherwise people would always deflect your subjections and make you look less than you should.. Not arguing here..Just my two cents |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by hopefulLandlord: 2:00pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
interesting discussion, how I wish agentofallah could grace the thread, I like listening to his scientific arguments on topics like this 4 Likes |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by vaxx: 2:01pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
ToZaraWithaZ:since no theory has establish that the universe might have go beyond this physical universe.... Your point here will be consider assumption.. Let's walk on the premises of the physical universe we all know...that is testable and measurable.... This physical universe require a process and that process is intelligent being...or do you have an alternative... |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 2:09pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
supersystemsnig:I am not a MATERIALIST, so I'm not gonna be leaving my definition of UNIVERSE, to the physical, OBSERVABLE universe. The Universe - EXISTENCE - has no beginning, and couldn't have had a beginning. So, no, not everything has a beginning. Heraclitus said there's nothing permanent but change. That's the only thing the universe undergoes. Transformations of all sorts. The whole of existence can't be matter. The form of existence predating the big bang couldn't have been NOTHING. It must have been SOMETHING, a different kind of something, and - think DEEPLY about this - whatever it was couldn't have created the physical universe out of NOTHING, rather, it must have TRANSFORMED partially or completely into the physical universe since, as we have already established, nonexistence cannot transform into existence and vice versa. This is my argument. Tozara 4 Likes |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 2:18pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
ToZaraWithaZ: If you're not a materialist, then you must admit that all things emanates from the atomic existence, and if we dug further, what lies insides the nucleus is pure energy, hence what is material is first of all immaterial. As whatever is made, is made from which isn't seen. It is first of all, objectivity than relativism,hence critical analysis and evaluation should be carried out about the origins of these ideologies less they become contraptions for the not-so-fee-minded thinker... If the universe has no beginning, then why are we all arguing about nuclear catastrophy? Doesn't this point to an end? Suffice to say, if there's no beginning should there be an end? Or perhaps the beginning stretches beyond your cognitive reach or can't be defined by the thesis of your self-implied notions. See the universe stretches beyond personal understanding and using the self knowledge to constrain the universe itself is problematic, chaotic and flawed. The whole existence isn't matter but science alludes that matter is the beginning of all things, and upon exploration of matter lies energy deep within it...you are not thorough in this field my brother. It has taken e over 22 years of scientific investigation to understand these principles, you need to do more research before continuing the path of self-induced objections... If the universe can't be made from nothing, then you don't understand nuclear fission. Go and study and you'll find out that just two hydrogen molecules alone when combined can lead to massive split of quanta, great released of energy, and the aftermath would be sub-atomic particles and an existence...Trust me...Read this patiently. Emeritus Quantum Physicist and Chemist 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing.... Let's Talk Philosophical by Nobody: 2:24pm On Oct 14, 2017 |
vaxx:If you're asking that we go ONLY by established scientific fact, then this discussion becomes POINTLESS. Since science can neither prove nor disprove either of our assertions. So, what's the point? No theory has established that the universe has a creator, so that's just YOUR ASSUMPTION as well, and I'm not indulging it. So, let's forget philosophical arguments, since empirical science renders them MEANINGLESS. You just destroyed the credibility or validity of your own arguments with that statement of yours. As for your ASSUMPTION that the universe requires a process [but, the concensus is that the process is the BIG BANG? How can a "process" be a person? Don't you mean a CREATOR?], I'll be giving you the alternatives to your single intelligent designer. - A lizard looking alien from another universe probably created our universe during a laboratory experiment - There's not a single intelligent creator or first cause - rather the universe was created by MANY intelligent beings - The creator transformed himself into the physical universe - The creator died after creating the universe Need more alternatives? Tozara 2 Likes |
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