agaugust:



20km range for Bofors?

Thé Indian army video at about 2:20 mins says with ordinary HE shells the range of Bofors FH-77B is 31km, so you now cut it down to 20km in your desperation and fraud ?

Your drones flying to target for G-6 gun will be shot down, the Indian captain is focussed on artillery working alone, not with any drone flying.

Who told you there is no 2.6km mountain or altitude land in Africa?

Fool, failed Geograhpy in your pathetic South African schools.

Atlas mountains North Africa.
Gotel Mountains West Africa.
Kilimanjaro Mountains East Africa.
Ethiopian mountains Horn of Africa.
Etc.

Fact remains that artillery shell is slower and loses range in cold Himalayas mountain because cold air is heavier than warm air, and Indian Himalayas is snow covered and snow cold as proved by your own photos, so it actually reduces artillery range, it does NOT increase it.

Nigerian and Indian Bofors FH-77B artillery max range 42km
South African G-6 artillery max range 38km

Go jump into river Zambezi if Nigerias superiror artillery range hurts you

.

I am not certain if Nigerian Bofors FH-77B are the same as those India has today. India upgraded their Bofors. However, let us hear it from the horses mouth.

Indian Army.




http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Equipment/Artillery/354-155mm-Bofors-Fh-77b.html

lezz:
and there was no nation as southafrica which has never fought any real war other than in the pages of blogs and electronic media.


Southafrica was an extension of anglo-dutch europe until 1994. And that's when she started existing.
Sing me another song.

And unicorns.

agaugust:



20km range for Bofors?

Thé Indian army video at about 2:20 mins says with ordinary HE shells the range of Bofors FH-77B is 31km, so you now cut it down to 20km in your desperation and fraud ?

Your drones flying to target for G-6 gun will be shot down, the Indian captain is focussed on artillery working alone, not with any drone flying.

Who told you there is no 2.6km mountain or altitude land in Africa?

Fool, failed Geograhpy in your pathetic South African schools.

Atlas mountains North Africa.
Gotel Mountains West Africa.
Kilimanjaro Mountains East Africa.
Ethiopian mountains Horn of Africa.
Etc.

Fact remains that artillery shell is slower and loses range in cold Himalayas mountain because cold air is heavier than warm air, and Indian Himalayas is snow covered and snow cold as proved by your own photos, so it actually reduces artillery range, it does NOT increase it.

Nigerian and Indian Bofors FH-77B artillery max range 42km
South African G-6 artillery max range 38km

Go jump into river Zambezi if Nigerias superiror artillery range hurts you

.

@Agaugust, do you know anything about G6-52 howitzer? Do some research about it firing range.



http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G6_howitzer




Maximum range:
30,000 m with standard HE rounds,
39,000 m with HE base bleed rounds,
and
42,000 m with HE base bleed rounds (BB
—fired from G6-52)
50,000 m with HE base bleed rounds (BB
—fired from G6-52 Extended Range)
52,500 m with a special velocity-
enhanced Long Range Projectile (V-LAP—
fired from G6).
58,000 m with a special velocity-
enhanced Long Range Projectile (V-LAP—
fired from G6-52).
67,450 m M9703A1 V-LAP round (tested
successfully to 73,000 m by Denel in G6-52
Extended Range platform)

Patchesagain:


With base bleed

Nigeria does not have base-bleed


Nigerian guns max range: just over 20km

Nope, the Indian army captain did NOT mention base bleed, you are the one adding your own fraud to his facts.

No arms log records any country's base bleed. Show us list, a full list of all countries that have base bleed shells in this world
.

mzilakazi:



@Agaugust, do you know anything about G6-52 howitzer? Do some research about it firing range.



http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G6_howitzer




Maximum range:
30,000 m with standard HE rounds,
39,000 m with HE base bleed rounds,
and
42,000 m with HE base bleed rounds (BB
—fired from G6-52)
50,000 m with HE base bleed rounds (BB
—fired from G6-52 Extended Range)
52,500 m with a special velocity-
enhanced Long Range Projectile (V-LAP—
fired from G6).
58,000 m with a special velocity-
enhanced Long Range Projectile (V-LAP—
fired from G6-52).
67,450 m M9703A1 V-LAP round (tested
successfully to 73,000 m by Denel in G6-52
Extended Range platform)

Unfortunately South Africa has only 38km maximum range artilery shells .

Nigeria has 42km range artillery shells
.

agaugust:


Unfortunately South Africa has only 38km maximum range artilery shells .

Nigeria has 42km range artillery shells
.

Using an ordinary G6 is 39 km and with G6-52 is 42 km. The Indian one is 30km and at high altitude is 41km.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Equipment/Artillery/354-155mm-Bofors-Fh-77b.html
G6 is however the best as compared to FH77B and it has always been.

Patchesagain:

.

@Patches the fraudster, Africa is full of mountains and lands from 1km to 8km altitude, Indian Kargil where Bofors was tested is only 2.6km average.

Even Nigeria has lands 2.4km high, Ethiopia 4km, Tanzania , Uganda, Morocco much higher than Kargil, so if your fake altitude theory is used , Bofors will fire to 42km range in Nigeria too

Pateches, you are locked in a self trap


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_highest_point

.

agaugust:

@Patches the fraudster, Africa is full of mountains and lands from 1km to 8km altitude, Indian Kargil where Bofors was tested is only 2.6km average.

Even Nigeria has lands 2.4km high, Ethiopia 4km, Tanzania , Uganda, Morocco much higher than Kargil, so if your fake altitude theory is used , Bofors will fire to 42km range in Nigeria too

Pateches, you are locked in a self trap


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_highest_point

.

@Agau, does Nigeria have the same Bofors as India?

mzilakazi:



@Agau, does Nigeria have the same Bofors as India?

Yes
.

agaugust:


Yes
.

I don't think so, however, Indian bofors or Nigeria's can only compare with G6 when standing at an altitude. G6 is in this way the winner since Nigeria has no aircraft that can lift or sling Bofors to a reasonable height. You failed @Agaugust. Your Bofors will only shoot up to 30 km.

EVarn:
the south african brigade later wore themselves out against german defense as they were initially tasked by the british to "secure the forest".tell me,isnt it true that after 'defeating' the german battalion,the german later retaliated killing thousands of soldiers,and making the south africans withdraw from some of the captured south delville wood?,werent the south africans later relieved by the british after a series of withdrawals,with iminent defeat looming?.perhaps the below article will reboot your medulla
.
.
.
.
http://www.cwgc.org/somme/content.asp?menuid=4&id=4&menuname=Delville+wood&menu=main
.

Withdraw and Retreat is not the same thing.

andrewza:


Withdraw and Retreat is not the same thing.

oh
.
.
my
.
.
God ! ! ! !
.
.
like seriously?,what is the difference between withdrawing and retreating or even conceding?!,all are moves made by the military when facing superior and overwhelming firepower....perhaps you need to be lectured on military matters,please tell me where you live in SA.
.
.
even your compatriot,mzilakazi,bowed before my superior analysis,so why forment such lies?
.
.

#INSERTED
.
.
.
.
We gonna knock the banana bafanas tomorrow!,we gonna send the saffers and their fans crying home.to ALL THE BANANA BAFANA FANS out there,i've only got one warning for you:
.
"beware bafanas,for thou wrestle not against angola and lesotho,but against the african principality,"THE SUPER EAGLES!" and their winning powers,against coach keshi and his top players in high places."
.
.
PAIX

mzilakazi:


Your Bofors will only shoot up to 30 km.

One South African says 30km

Patchesagain:


Fact of the matter is that the maximum attainable range of the Bofors FH77B in Africa is around 20km.

Another South African says 20km

.................................................................


This proves that these South Africans are confused, ignorant, and fraudulent at the same time

They hate Nigerian Bofors artillery 42km range and they will one day argue and sh.oot each other over it
.

[size=16pt]

@All South Africans :

1. What is the maximum range of Bofors FH-77B artillery at low altitude and at high altitude ?

2. What is the maximum range of G-6 Rhino artillery at low altitude and at high altitude ?

Answer all questions with reliable sources to prove.

Una go see how yawa go gas with dis question dem o !

.[/size]

agaugust:


Unfortunately South Africa has only 38km maximum range artilery shells .

Nigeria has 42km range artillery shells
.

42km max range at high altitude


Normal max range is 30km

Confirmed by your own source

agaugust:


@Patches the fraudster, Africa is full of mountains and lands from 1km to 8km altitude, Indian Kargil where Bofors was tested is only 2.6km average.

Even Nigeria has lands 2.4km high, Ethiopia 4km, Tanzania , Uganda, Morocco much higher than Kargil, so if your fake altitude theory is used , Bofors will fire to 42km range in Nigeria too

Pateches, you are locked in a self trap


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_highest_point

.

Only one in a trap here is you

Who said that 2,4km counts as high altitude?

You invented this figure after being smashed in debate.

Nigerian Bofors FH77B has a standard maximum range of 30km. The G5 and G6 out range you at this altitude.

If its range increases at high altitude, so does that of the G5 and G6

Hence, we will allways outrange you.

Simple logic buddy... or do you think the laws of physics do not apply to the SANDF?

agaugust:


Nope, the Indian army captain did NOT mention base bleed, you are the one adding your own fraud to his facts.

No arms log records any country's base bleed. Show us list, a full list of all countries that have base bleed shells in this world
.

Why do I have to show you a full list?

We know that South Africa has base bleed

You have no proof that Nigeria has base bleed.

Thus, Nigeria does not have base bleed, until you prove that it does.

agaugust:


One South African says 30km





Another South African says 20km

.................................................................


This proves that these South Africans are confused, ignorant, and fraudulent at the same time

They hate Nigerian Bofors artillery 42km range and they will one day argue and sh.oot each other over it
.

Augustus

Fh77B max range with standard ammunition is around 20km

FH77B max range with base bleed is 30km

FH77 can acheive a max range at high altitude of 42km.

But the G5 and G6 out-range the FH77B at low altitude, that their max range will also increase at altitude, meaning they will also out-range it at altitude.

agaugust:
[size=16pt]

@All South Africans :

1. What is the maximum range of Bofors FH-77B artillery at low altitude and at high altitude ?

2. What is the maximum range of G-6 Rhino artillery at low altitude and at high altitude ?

Answer all questions with reliable sources to prove.

Una go see how yawa go gas with dis question dem o !

.[/size]

1. What is the maximum range of Bofors FH-77B artillery at low altitude and at high altitude ?

20km without base bleed
30km with base bleed
42km at high altitude
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4673.html

2. What is the maximum range of G-6 Rhino artillery at low altitude and at high altitude ?

30,000 m with standard HE rounds,
39,000 m with HE base bleed rounds, and
52,500 m with a special velocity-enhanced Long Range Projectile (V-LAP—fired from G6).
67,450 m M9703A1 V-LAP round (tested successfully to 73,000 m by Denel in G6-52 Extended Range platform)
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13537:fact-file-g6-l45-self-propelled-towed-gun-howitzer-&catid=79:fact-files&Itemid=159

and

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/g6_rhino.htm

High altitude would be 49km with standard base bleed, 62km with VLAP, 77km with M9703A1 (83km with G6-52)

Conclusion: SANDF has longest range artillery in Africa

Patchesagain:


1. What is the maximum range of Bofors FH-77B artillery at low altitude and at high altitude ?

20km without base bleed
30km with base bleed
42km at high altitude
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4673.html

2. What is the maximum range of G-6 Rhino artillery at low altitude and at high altitude ?

30,000 m with standard HE rounds,
39,000 m with HE base bleed rounds, and
52,500 m with a special velocity-enhanced Long Range Projectile (V-LAP—fired from G6).
67,450 m M9703A1 V-LAP round (tested successfully to 73,000 m by Denel in G6-52 Extended Range platform)
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13537:fact-file-g6-l45-self-propelled-towed-gun-howitzer-&catid=79:fact-files&Itemid=159

and

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/g6_rhino.htm

High altitude would be 49km with standard base bleed, 62km with VLAP, 77km with M9703A1 (83km with G6-52)

Conclusion: SANDF has longest range artillery in Africa

Note that the G6 and G5 ranges come from multiple sources not just the one I posted

Patchesagain:


Augustus

Fh77B max range with standard ammunition is around 20km

FH77B max range with base bleed is 30km

FH77 can acheive a max range at high altitude of 42km.

G5 and G6 out-range the FH77B at low altitude, that their max range will also increase at altitude, meaning they will also out-range it at altitude.

Show me source from DENEL or SANDF to prove your claim of G5 and G6 extra range in high altitude

Do you know what you just proved ?

Nobody else, no other source ever quoted artillery ranges by gun altitude above sea level.

No data is available for almost every other artillery gun in existence.

Do you know what that means?

It means all your story of different range based on gun altitude is A CHARADE, a mirage, A FALLACY, falsehood, YOUR PRIVATE IMAGINATION, lies from the pit of h.ell

Patchesagain:


High altitude would be 49km with standard base bleed, 62km with VLAP, 83km with G6-52

Show me DENEL or SANDF source to prove your claim of G6 extra range at high altitude, I am waiting ! Bwahahaha

.

Patchesagain:


Who said that 2,4km counts as high altitude?

Kargil India average is 2.6km, so define for us what is high altitude, since 2.6km counts as high, but 2.4km is not, according to you.

Show us proof of that claim, how 2.4km is low and 2.6km is high

We are waiting...fool !
.

Patchesagain:


FH77 can acheive a max range at high altitude of 42km.

.

So, you mean by firing Bofors at altitude on mountain, the range will increase from 30km to 42km because of cold air ? LOL

Extra 12km range extension like a rocket ? LOL.

Okay, so cold air increases artillery range by a whole 12km, then if any country in the world that has winter like in Europe and North America, places the Bofors on sea level low altitude during winter, the range of the gun will increase by 12km in the cold winter air at sea level ?

Wow ! Okay, so when any army equipment is used in cold winter, all artillery shells, RPG, missiles, Tanks, APC guns, and rifle bullets will travel with extra range increase of 40% ?

Wow, so in Russian winter or American cold winter, a surface to surface missile with 30km range, fired at sea level on low altitude grounds, will h.it target at 42km because @Patches new law of Physics has increased it's range in cold air by extra 40% automatically, Wow !!!

Okay, @Patches says the cold air at high altitude automatically increase the range of weapons fired by extra 40 % magic !

@Patches, all rifles like AK-47, etc fired in cold winter air at sea level will have it's bullet travel extra range and increase from 400m to about 560m ? Right ? @Patches, you are completely Craaaa.aaazy

.

agaugust:



Nobody else, no other source ever quoted artillery ranges by gun altitude above sea level.


It means all your story of different range based on gun altitude is A CHARADE, a mirage, A FALLACY, falsehood, YOUR PRIVATE IMAGINATION, lies from the pit of h.ell


.

Augustus the only source you have that says that the FH77B has a max range of 42km says that it is only achieved at high altitude

And he gives a different standard max range of 30km


So, are you saying that your only source rant says that the FH77B has a max range of 40km is a charade?

Are you saying the only source is a fallacy?

Ok, I agree. We can then consider theax range of the FH77B to be 30km

Congratulations on destroying your own argument and the only source that supports your claims.

agaugust:



So, you mean by firing Bofors at altitude on mountain, the range will increase from 30km to 42km because of cold air ? LOL

Extra 12km range extension like a rocket ? LOL.

Okay, so cold air increases artillery range by a whole 12km, then if any country in the world that has winter like in Europe and North America, places the Bofors on sea level low altitude during winter, the range of the gun will increase by 12km in the cold winter air at sea level ?

Wow ! Okay, so when any army equipment is used in cold winter, all artillery shells, RPG, missiles, Tanks, APC guns, and rifle bullets will travel with extra range increase of 40% ?

Wow, so in Russian winter or American cold winter, a surface to surface missile with 30km range, fired at sea level on low altitude grounds, will h.it target at 42km because @Patches new law of Physics has increased it's range in cold air by extra 40% automatically, Wow !!!

Okay, @Patches says the cold air at high altitude automatically increase the range of weapons fired by extra 40 % magic !

@Patches, all rifles like AK-47, etc fired in cold winter air at sea level will have it's bullet travel extra range and increase from 400m to about 560m ? Right ? @Patches, you are completely Craaaa.aaazy

.

Dude, I am not your tutor. I am not here to address your lack of education

It is clear you lack reading comprehension skills as well, because no one is talking about cold air. We are talking about altitude.

you are the only one here talking about temperature, because you cannot comprehend the argument or the (basic) laws of physics at play here.

Don't worry though, I don't blame you for your complete ignorance and utter lack of basic knowledge or general knowledge. I blame your countries education system.

I shall explain again (since your simple mind cannot grasp such basic concepts, and much like one training a dog, we shall have to do this many times)

- At high altitude air is less dense

- Less dense air provides less resistance and less drag

- This means projectiles retain kinetic energy for longer

- This means they travel further, like the shell of a FH77B

You not understanding something doesn't make me crazy, it just makes you poorly educated

Now I must ask, how much longer will you continue to embarrass yourself and waste our time?

agaugust:


One South African says 30km





Another South African says 20km

.................................................................


This proves that these South Africans are confused, ignorant, and fraudulent at the same time

They hate Nigerian Bofors artillery 42km range and they will one day argue and sh.oot each other over it
.

The official Indian army source says with a standard shells the range is 24 Km and BB (extended) makes 30 km. That's what the source says not me.




http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Equipment/Artillery/354-155mm-Bofors-Fh-77b.html

agaugust:



So, you mean by firing Bofors at altitude on mountain, the range will increase from 30km to 42km because of cold air ? LOL

Extra 12km range extension like a rocket ? LOL.

Okay, so cold air increases artillery range by a whole 12km, then if any country in the world that has winter like in Europe and North America, places the Bofors on sea level low altitude during winter, the range of the gun will increase by 12km in the cold winter air at sea level ?

Wow ! Okay, so when any army equipment is used in cold winter, all artillery shells, RPG, missiles, Tanks, APC guns, and rifle bullets will travel with extra range increase of 40% ?

Wow, so in Russian winter or American cold winter, a surface to surface missile with 30km range, fired at sea level on low altitude grounds, will h.it target at 42km because @Patches new law of Physics has increased it's range in cold air by extra 40% automatically, Wow !!!

Okay, @Patches says the cold air at high altitude automatically increase the range of weapons fired by extra 40 % magic !

@Patches, all rifles like AK-47, etc fired in cold winter air at sea level will have it's bullet travel extra range and increase from 400m to about 560m ? Right ? @Patches, you are completely Craaaa.aaazy

.

Chief, my conclusion is that the Bofor you have shown is not Nigerias. FH77B is very old and has been going upgrades under various armies in the world. So, how sure are we if Nigeria's Bofors can reach a range of 42km?

EVarn:

oh
.
.
my
.
.
God ! ! ! !
.
.
like seriously?,what is the difference between withdrawing and retreating or even conceding?!,all are moves made by the military when facing superior and overwhelming firepower....perhaps you need to be lectured on military matters,please tell me where you live in SA.
.
.
even your compatriot,mzilakazi,bowed before my superior analysis,so why forment such lies?
.
.

You are lying my Friend. Withdrawal can be done for political reasons, relieve or as a result of overwhelming pressure from international community and is not dependent on whether defeat was looming or not. Retreat is something else, it can either be strategic for reinforcement purposes or maneuverable as in when your forces have been overpowered and taking to their heels. The difference between the two is that withdrawal is always seem to be permanent in contrast to retreat which always is temporary. Many jurnos do not know how to differentiate between the two and use the two words interchangeably without knowledge unless the writer is a war journalist who also happened to be soldiers in their lifetime.

agaugust:



So, you mean by firing Bofors at altitude on mountain, the range will increase from 30km to 42km because of cold air ? LOL

Extra 12km range extension like a rocket ? LOL.

Okay, so cold air increases artillery range by a whole 12km, then if any country in the world that has winter like in Europe and North America, places the Bofors on sea level low altitude during winter, the range of the gun will increase by 12km in the cold winter air at sea level ?

Wow ! Okay, so when any army equipment is used in cold winter, all artillery shells, RPG, missiles, Tanks, APC guns, and rifle bullets will travel with extra range increase of 40% ?

Wow, so in Russian winter or American cold winter, a surface to surface missile with 30km range, fired at sea level on low altitude grounds, will h.it target at 42km because @Patches new law of Physics has increased it's range in cold air by extra 40% automatically, Wow !!!

Okay, @Patches says the cold air at high altitude automatically increase the range of weapons fired by extra 40 % magic !

@Patches, all rifles like AK-47, etc fired in cold winter air at sea level will have it's bullet travel extra range and increase from 400m to about 560m ? Right ? @Patches, you are completely Craaaa.aaazy

.

@Agaugust, truly your mind is messed up. I do not believe that you have studied physics at high school. In science and geography I was taught that air is less dense in high altitudes than in low altitudes. Moreover, I was equally taught that cold air is heavier than hot air, the reason is dependent on the molecules of air which tend to expand and move faster in high temperature. On the contrary, molecules of air tend to be compressed in low temperatures, making the air more heavy.

However, the composition of air is made of molecules of N2: H2: O2 etc and the heaviest of them being Oxygen. The oxygen as an element has a mass of 16 in periodic table, hence, if we were to do stoichiometry to calculate the molecular mass of oxygen (O2) we will have 16+16=32. So, oxygen has a molar mass of 32g/mol which appears to be heavier than other molecules of composition of air. So, you see how easy it is for air above our roof to be lighter than the one we normally breathe. Irrespective of the temperature, the status core will remain where the upper air will always be lighter than the lower air anywhere in the world. The density of air in Nigeria might differ with that of Russia because of temperature, but the common aspect will be that at altitude the air will always be slightly lighter in both countries but with different densities. It can never be that the density of air is the same in Russia from low grounds to high altitudes.


Well, I can see that you have drawn an example by using a missile and unwittingly seem to have forgotten that surface to surface missiles have a massive thrusting force due to their engines. Their engines can only drive them to a certain distance and shut down but the good thing is that they can be upgraded to extend the range if you have the competent engineers and technicians. That is something that artillery shells lack, since their range are merely dependent on the type of ammunition, charges and altitude. SA, however, has a new modern shells called VLAP which are similar to missiles and can reach the range of over 70 km at a faster speed than normal shells.

Lastly, I will recommend you to get your science skills in action and stop reasoning like a baby. This does not change the fact that G6 is superior than FH77B and it had always been and will always be.

mzilakazi:

You are lying my Friend. Withdrawal can be done for political reasons, relieve or as a result of overwhelming pressure from international community and is not dependent on whether defeat was looming or not. Retreat is something else, it can either be strategic for reinforcement purposes or maneuverable as in when your forces have been overpowered and taking to their heels. The difference between the two is that withdrawal is always seem to be permanent in contrast to retreat which always is temporary. Many jurnos do not know how to differentiate between the two and use the two words interchangeably without knowledge unless the writer is a war journalist who also happened to be soldiers in their lifetime.

on a second thought,perhaps i will have to agree with you,however,withdrawal when used in context of resistance from a more powerful opponent,equals retreat,and when you retreat{withdraw} from a place,you concede the territory gained throughout the campaign.