NaijaPikinGidi:


It's a guess when you use the word PROBABLY. It's guess when you have not backed your claim with factual evidence to support your personal opinion!

Keep guessing ... as long as it keeps your pots cooking!

The alternative don't look good for Nigeria.

Maj Johann Rankin who downed two Cuban MIGs with Mirage is on record. Agaugust has to note this.


http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/history/saaf/the-border-war

The truth about Angola's air-to-air combat, not agaugust lies. So, it is clear that SADF won both of the only two dogfights in Angola.



http://www.laahs.com/content/12-The-Cuban-MiGs/view/4

Msauza:
Maj Johann Rankin who downed two Cuban MIGs with Mirage is on record. Agaugust has to note this.


http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/history/saaf/the-border-war

SAAF shot down MiG-21 NOT MiG-23 jets, go back and read my posts. Even @Patches tried to play that game of deception here but I have forced him to admit the truth.

patches689:


I have photographic evidence of Mig21s being shot down and i have posted the name and rank of the pilot responsible for the shoot downs

You see South Africa telling lies against Cuba, that's why I said I need proof from German navy because South Africa could just be telling lies against the Germans on the navy shooting/misfire issue.

When a country has the habit of telling lies so much, outsiders will always doubt what you say unless you have 100% proof.

You South Africans have built a permanent image of falsehood around yourselves. Crime does not pay. You lose all credibility
.

patches689:


Biafra had an airforce consiting of civilian cessnas

I have photographic evidence of Mig21s being shot down and i have posted the name and rank of the pilot responsible for the shoot downs

It is you whom is behaving like a kid

Nope, you are the kid here.

Actually you are the resident liar and deceiver here.

I asked for MiG-23 but you posted MiG-21 jet, are they the same ?

SAAF completely withdrew from the air to air engagements because Cuba was s.hooting down South African Mirage jets like insecticide kills houseflies using the MNiG-23 jets.

South Africa LOST the air war and Cuba won ! Forever in history !
.

agaugust:


SAAF shot down MiG-21 NOT MiG-23 jets, go back and read my posts. Even @Patches tried to play that game of deception here but I have forced him to admit the truth.

You see South Africa telling lies against Cuba, that's why I said I need proof from German navy because South Africa could just be telling lies against the Germans on the navy shooting/misfire issue.

When a country has the habit of telling lies so much, outsiders will always doubt what you say unless you have 100% proof.

You South Africans have built a permanent image of falsehood around yourselves. Crime does not pay. You lose all credibility
.

Does it matter? those were only two dogfights that took place in Angola which SADF both won. MIG 23 were downed through ground fire.

agaugust:


Nope, you are the kid here.

Actually you are the resident liar and deceiver here.

I asked for MiG-23 but you posted MiG-21 jet, are they the same ?

SAAF completely withdrew from the air to air engagements because Cuba was s.hooting down South African Mirage jets like insecticide kills houseflies using the MNiG-23 jets.

South Africa LOST the air war and Cuba won ! Forever in history !
.

All the records says Cuba lost in air combat.

agaugust:


SAAF shot down MiG-21 NOT MiG-23 jets, go back and read my posts. Even @Patches tried to play that game of deception here but I have forced him to admit the truth.



You see South Africa telling lies against Cuba, that's why I said I need proof from German navy because South Africa could just be telling lies against the Germans on the navy shooting/misfire issue.

When a country has the habit of telling lies so much, outsiders will always doubt what you say unless you have 100% proof.

You South Africans have built a permanent image of falsehood around yourselves. Crime does not pay. You lose all credibility
.

"I need proof from German navy because South Africa could just be telling lies against the Germans on the navy shooting/misfire issue."
What?The German embassy not enough proof? Don't you think if we were telling lies and accusing the German Navy of a rather serious offence a country like Germany wouldnt be quick to deny and disprove those accusations?

jln115:

"I need proof from German navy because South Africa could just be telling lies against the Germans on the navy shooting/misfire issue."
What?The German embassy not enough proof? Don't you think if we were telling lies and accusing the German Navy of a rather serious offence a country like Germany wouldnt be quick to deny and disprove those accusations?

South Africa is known worldwide for telling lies at random.

I don't care about sentiment of "How will Germany feel is=f we lied against them". The Germans don't care about your struggle for image.

The news report is NOT from German embassy press release, it is news on Defenseweb, a private magazine claiming it was sourced from German embassy, yet we searched the whole internet and CANNOT find any such press report from German embassy.

Proof needed, until then....BOTH NAVIES ARE SUSPECT FOR THAT SH.OOTING INCIDENT !
.

jln115:

"I need proof from German navy because South Africa could just be telling lies against the Germans on the navy shooting/misfire issue."
What?The German embassy not enough proof? Don't you think if we were telling lies and accusing the German Navy of a rather serious offence a country like Germany wouldnt be quick to deny and disprove those accusations?

The German embassy confirmed it, so we don't know what does agaugust want. kikikikiki…

agaugust:


South Africa is known worldwide for telling lies at random.

I don't care about sentiment of "How will Germany feel is=f we lied against them". The Germans don't care about your struggle for image.

The news report is NOT from German embassy press release, it is news on Defenseweb, a private magazine claiming it was sourced from German embassy, yet we searched the whole internet and CANNOT find any such press report from German embassy.

Proof needed, until then....BOTH NAVIES ARE SUSPECT FOR THAT SH.OOTING INCIDENT !
.

Investigation was conducted and it was found to be a German warship whose captain also never denied. Why do you find it hard to take the facts? Is it because you always wish SANDF to be at fault?

Msauza:



Does it matter? those were only two dogfights that took place in Angola which SADF both won. MIG 23 were downed through ground fire.

Dude, this is why people don't believe whatever you Southies say, too many lies.

I have posted over 20 times on this forum that Cuban MiG-23 jets shot down South African Mirage jets and your air force ran away completely from the air war, thus Cuba won ! Cuban boys disgraced SAAF in the air war .

Cuban teenage pilots with zero war experience sh.ot down 5 South African aircraft including SAAF Mirage jets in air to air dogfights....

"On 27 September 1987 Cuban Major Albert Ley Rivas and Lieutenant Chao Gondin in MiG-23MLs engaged two Mirage F-1CZs of the SAAF's 3rd Squadron and fired three R-60 ("AA-8 Aphid" IR-homing) missiles. According to them, one F-1CZ exploded upon impact by an R-60 and crashed in enemy territory, and the other retired to Namibia after being struck by a second missile."

http://www.laahs.com/content/12-The-Cuban-MiGs/view/5

.

Msauza:



Investigation was conducted and it was found to be a German warship whose captain also never denied.

Show us a copy of the investigation report, or a statement directly from the German navy that it was at fault based on that report.

That is the only honest evidence to prove the truth to the whole world
.

agaugust:


South Africa is known worldwide for telling lies at random.

I don't care about sentiment of "How will Germany feel is=f we lied against them". The Germans don't care about your struggle for image.

The news report is NOT from German embassy press release, it is news on Defenseweb, a private magazine claiming it was sourced from German embassy, yet we searched the whole internet and CANNOT find any such press report from German embassy.

Proof needed, until then....BOTH NAVIES ARE SUSPECT FOR THAT SH.OOTING INCIDENT !
.

"Proof needed, until then....BOTH NAVIES ARE SUSPECT FOR THAT SH.OOTING INCIDENT !"
Hahahah at first it was just the SAN, according to @Agaugust there was noway it was the Deutsche Marine!

Now its both Navies!!

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH !!!Your a funny guy Augustine!!

agaugust:


Dude, this is why people don't believe whatever you Southies say, too many lies.

I have posted over 20 times on this forum that Cuban MiG-23 jets shot down South African Mirage jets and your air force ran away completely from the air war, thus Cuba won ! Cuban boys disgraced SAAF in the air war .

Cuban teenage pilots with zero war experience sh.ot down 5 South African aircraft including SAAF Mirage jets in air to air dogfights....

"On 27 September 1987 Cuban Major Albert Ley Rivas and Lieutenant Chao Gondin in MiG-23MLs engaged two Mirage F-1CZs of the SAAF's 3rd Squadron and fired three R-60 ("AA-8 Aphid" IR-homing) missiles. According to them, one F-1CZ exploded upon impact by an R-60 and crashed in enemy territory, and the other retired to Namibia after being struck by a second missile."

http://www.laahs.com/content/12-The-Cuban-MiGs/view/5

.

Your link is fvcked find another one!!

jln115:

"Proof needed, until then....BOTH NAVIES ARE SUSPECT FOR THAT SH.OOTING INCIDENT !"
Hahahah at first it was just the SAN, according to @Agaugust there was noway it was the Deutsche Marine!

Now its both Navies!!

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH !!!Your a funny guy Augustine!!

Yes, because the South African press is now blaming the Germans. The initial reports from inside South Africa blamed South Africa, I did not write those news reports, your own countrymen did it at News24 media. So it's now a tie on both navies.

agaugust:



Yes, because the South African press is now blaming the Germans. The initial reports from inside South Africa blamed South Africa, I did not write those news reports, your own countrymen did it at News24 media. So it's now a tie on both navies.

The press was read with the heading SA Navy shot blah blah blah for the purpose of sensationalism to attract attention. However, when you read the details there was uncertainty as to who fired the shot and investigation was still to be conducted.

The press does not blame the Germans they merely publish the findings of the investigation.

SAN is very familiar with that place and they couldn't carelessly have shot at fishermen boats.

agaugust:


Dude, this is why people don't believe whatever you Southies say, too many lies.

I have posted over 20 times on this forum that Cuban MiG-23 jets shot down South African Mirage jets and your air force ran away completely from the air war, thus Cuba won ! Cuban boys disgraced SAAF in the air war .

Cuban teenage pilots with zero war experience sh.ot down 5 South African aircraft including SAAF Mirage jets in air to air dogfights....

"On 27 September 1987 Cuban Major Albert Ley Rivas and Lieutenant Chao Gondin in MiG-23MLs engaged two Mirage F-1CZs of the SAAF's 3rd Squadron and fired three R-60 ("AA-8 Aphid" IR-homing) missiles. According to them, one F-1CZ exploded upon impact by an R-60 and crashed in enemy territory, and the other retired to Namibia after being struck by a second missile."

http://www.laahs.com/content/12-The-Cuban-MiGs/view/5

.

Cuba lost many MIG 21&23s to the extend that soviet pilots helped them. Fact!!!

agaugust:


SAAF shot down MiG-21 NOT MiG-23 jets, go back and read my posts. Even @Patches tried to play that game of deception here but I have forced him to admit the truth.



You see South Africa telling lies against Cuba, that's why I said I need proof from German navy because South Africa could just be telling lies against the Germans on the navy shooting/misfire issue.

When a country has the habit of telling lies so much, outsiders will always doubt what you say unless you have 100% proof.

You South Africans have built a permanent image of falsehood around yourselves. Crime does not pay. You lose all credibility
.

So now the specific jet is the point of the argument?

Lol, where did that come from?

Fact remains, SAAF has shot down jets.

NAF has never shot down any enemy plane in its history

MikeCZAR:
No, UN was not involved there. The SA forces were under SANDF control the mission HQ was in PTA.

By operatives I meant the scouts the guys who field Cytoon.

Dude I'm being serious right now, I just repeating what the guy told me. I also didn't understand why they had to involve the U.N. But don't forget that whenever you deploy troops into a foreign country, the U.N needs to know about it, S.A is not as powerful as the U.S where we can deploy where ever we want, and remember that our Mandate in C.A.R was to train Troops and provide Vip protection and not to engage "potential threats" unless they fired on us first, and that's why they had to ask for permission from the U.N.

All hail the spanking new British SuperSub with ultra-stealth capability. This will redefine sub-sea Naval warfare.

One of the world's most sophisticated and powerful nuclear submarines. Carries dozens of cruise missiles capable of hitting targets 1,200 miles away. Her sonar can detect vessels moving on the other side of the ocean. Powerful nuclear reactor allows her to cruise non-stop for 25 years. HMS Ambush is so hi-tech the giant submarine doesn't even need a periscope


The vessel is also one of the quietest sea-going vessels built, capable of sneaking along an enemy coastline to drop off special forces or tracking a boat for weeks. Foreign forces will find it almost impossible to sneak up undetected by her incredibly powerful sonar equipment that can hear halfway around the world. Her listening ability is quite awesome. She has a sonar system with the processing power of 2,000 laptop computers.

===============
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2203110/Deadly-Hunter-Killer-submarine-capable-hearing-ship-leaving-port-New-York--sat-underwater-English-channel.html

agaugust:


Nope, you are the kid here.

Actually you are the resident liar and deceiver here.

I asked for MiG-23 but you posted MiG-21 jet, are they the same ?

SAAF completely withdrew from the air to air engagements because Cuba was s.hooting down South African Mirage jets like insecticide kills houseflies using the MNiG-23 jets.

South Africa LOST the air war and Cuba won ! Forever in history !
.

Why is the Mig23 important all of a sudden? We are talking about jet kills, you have desperatly shifted the goalposts.

How many Mirages were shot down? Tell us how many we lost.

Cuban's suffered over 60 aircraft losses to the SADF
http://www.acig.info/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=131&Itemid=62

SAAF flew hundreds of sorties right until the end of the war. Citations have been posted.

agaugust:


South Africa is known worldwide for telling lies at random.

I don't care about sentiment of "How will Germany feel is=f we lied against them". The Germans don't care about your struggle for image.

The news report is NOT from German embassy press release, it is news on Defenseweb, a private magazine claiming it was sourced from German embassy, yet we searched the whole internet and CANNOT find any such press report from German embassy.

Proof needed, until then....BOTH NAVIES ARE SUSPECT FOR THAT SH.OOTING INCIDENT !
.

What lies has the SAN told?

Tell us.

Fact remains, the Germans have admitted responsibility.

We dont care what you think, facts are facts and you will have to live with that!

agaugust:


Dude, this is why people don't believe whatever you Southies say, too many lies.

I have posted over 20 times on this forum that Cuban MiG-23 jets shot down South African Mirage jets and your air force ran away completely from the air war, thus Cuba won ! Cuban boys disgraced SAAF in the air war .

Cuban teenage pilots with zero war experience sh.ot down 5 South African aircraft including SAAF Mirage jets in air to air dogfights....

"On 27 September 1987 Cuban Major Albert Ley Rivas and Lieutenant Chao Gondin in MiG-23MLs engaged two Mirage F-1CZs of the SAAF's 3rd Squadron and fired three R-60 ("AA-8 Aphid" IR-homing) missiles. According to them, one F-1CZ exploded upon impact by an R-60 and crashed in enemy territory, and the other retired to Namibia after being struck by a second missile."

http://www.laahs.com/content/12-The-Cuban-MiGs/view/5

.

Cool citation.

Cubans lost 60 aircraft
http://www.acig.info/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=131&Itemid=62

And, from a document written by the new SANDF (with no intention to cover up the truth) SAAF losses in Angola were:

Total SAAF losses during the “war years upnorth” amounted to:
- one Mirage F-1AZ
- one Mirage IIIR2Z
- one Canberra,
- five Impala Mk IIs
- one Bosbok, one Cessna 185
- four Pumas
- five Alouette IIIs
- three unmanned remotely piloted vehicles (all as a result of direct
enemy action)

while the following aircraft were also lost in the operational
area:
- one Mirage F-1AZ
- three Impala Mk IIs
- one Kudu
- one Cessna 185,
- three Pumas
- three Alouette IIIs.7

Soucre: The South African Air Force, 1920–2012: A Review of its History and an Indication of its Cultural Heritage

So, the Score-board at the end of the war is:

SAAF losses (in combat): 18
Cuban losses (in combat): 60

Gee, I wonder who won that battle

agaugust:


Show us a copy of the investigation report, or a statement directly from the German navy that it was at fault based on that report.

That is the only honest evidence to prove the truth to the whole world
.

Feel free to contact the German Embassy and ask for a press release.

agaugust:


Yes, because the South African press is now blaming the Germans. The initial reports from inside South Africa blamed South Africa, I did not write those news reports, your own countrymen did it at News24 media. So it's now a tie on both navies.

Actually no news outlets blamed the SAN especially not News24, only EWN had a heading that tried to attract readers,but if you read the article you would see that nowhere is SAN blamed for the shooting.

I posted not 1 but 2 reliable German sources that explicitly say it was the Deutsche Marine!

Centrifude:


Dude I'm being serious right now, I just repeating what the guy told me. I also didn't understand why they had to involve the U.N. But don't forget that whenever you deploy troops into a foreign country, the U.N needs to know about it, S.A is not as powerful as the U.S where we can deploy where ever we want, and remember that our Mandate in C.A.R was to train Troops and provide Vip protection and not to engage "potential threats" unless they fired on us first, and that's why they had to ask for permission from the U.N.

SA deployed troops(The training team) to CAR on a Bi-national agreement between both governments.

This mission was not under AU or UN. As you could've seen they didn't wear blue or green helmet covers.

When things turned sour a protection force was sent to CAR.

Patchesagain:


Feel free to contact the German Embassy and ask for a press release.

Nope, you feel free to contact the German embassy and ask for copy of the press release to prove your claims.....you are the ones saying there is a German embassy report, so show us.

Until then, both navies are suspect
.

agaugust:


Nope, you feel free to contact the German embassy and ask for copy of the press release to prove your claims.....you are the ones saying there is a German embassy report, so show us.

Until then, both navies are suspect
.

Patches is not Thomas and so the onus rest upon you to look out for the copy of the press release.

We as South Africans we trust that our navy couldn't have mistakenly have shot at those fishermen due to the familiarity of the area. They master the place like the palm of their hands.

andrewza:



The alternative don't look good for Nigeria.

What are you actually saying cooking?

Msauza:



Patches is not Thomas and so the onus rest upon you to look out for the copy of the press release.

We as South Africans we trust that our navy couldn't have mistakenly have shot at those fishermen due to the familiarity of the area. They master the place like the palm of their hands.

So why must NIGERIANS for any reason doubt the great exploits and world-record-setting super capabilities of our battle-grilled, tried and tested gallant NA and NAF?

Abeg learn to shoot straight!

NaijaPikinGidi:


So why must NIGERIANS for any reason doubt the great exploits and world-record-setting super capabilities of our battle-grilled, tried and tested gallant NA and NAF?

Abeg learn to shoot straight!

Yet SA mercenaries have taught those gallant NA soldiers to carry guns, have groomed them and nurtured their bravery to fight. They have led and guide them to victory.

They deserve credit.