3 arguments atheists hate most. ~ Issac

Source: https://www.facebook.com/EvolutionIsALie/

If there's a superior designer, lawyer or programmer, where did he/she/it/they come from?

If it's reasonable the designer, lawyer or programmer is the beginning of all things and he/she/it/they probably came out of nothing, then I think it's also sounds reasonable to say the design, laws and programming was formed from nothing. They just happen to exist.

[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=62203519][/quote]

I see fallacies everywhere...

First of, Let me turn the argument on its head, If a design needs a designer, then obviously your God would also need a creator because the designer has to be more complex than the design and if complexity only comes from complexity, then you run into infinite regression.

2. Not all designs have designers, Evolution is a simple example.

3. DNA is not a programming language, just because it is called a code doesnt mean its the same as a computer programming language, this is a false-equivalence.

Ayobami97:
If it's reasonable the designer, lawyer or programmer is beginning of all things and he/she/it/they probably came out of nothing, then I think it's also sounds reasonable to say the design, laws and programming was formed from nothing. They just happen to exist.

You are wrong !

Programming on its own has to do with DELIBERATE process of writing or coding or arrangement. NO Program can exist by itself. Something or someone writes, codes or arranges it so it can efficiently function along the lines it was programmed to.

Laws themselves cannot come from nothing. Laws ALWAYS require an ORIGINAL LAW GIVER. Someone has to initiate laws and they do not initiate themselves.

Regarding design,

design
noun
a plan or drawing produced to show the look and function or workings of a building, garment, or other object before it is made.
a decorative pattern.
purpose or planning that exists behind an action, fact, or object

That definition shows you that NO PLAN, OR PURPOSE exists on its own. Someone or something set It on its course and designed it for a specific purpose and plan.

#GoBackToSchool

butterflyl1on:


You are wrong !

Programming on its own has to do with DELIBERATE process of writing or coding or arrangement. NO Program can exist by itself. Something or someone writes, codes or arranges it so it can efficiently function along the lines it was programmed to.

Laws themselves cannot come from nothing. Laws ALWAYS require an ORIGINAL LAW GIVER. Someone has to initiate laws and they do not initiate themselves.

Regarding design,

design
noun
a plan or drawing produced to show the look and function or workings of a building, garment, or other object before it is made.
a decorative pattern.
purpose or planning that exists behind an action, fact, or object

That definition shows you that NO PLAN, OR PURPOSE exists on its own. Someone or something set It on its course and designed it for a specific purpose and plan.

#GoBackToSchool

Who designed the designer?

superhumanist:


Who designed the designer?

Exactly what the OP is talking about !

Such Lame questions.

OP your hook has caught its first fish sharp sharp

superhumanist:


Who designed the designer?

well, that is a question theists find inconvenient, they can't answer it so they try to make the question appear as though its unintelligent to even ask.

hopefulLandlord:

well, that is a question theists find inconvenient, they can't answer it so they try to make the question appear as though its unintelligent to even ask.

i am not surprised.

Science ain't as dogmatic as theist. Science are aware that they don't have answer to all questions as they are still trying to unravel mysteries behind some phenomenon. But theist tend to think they know it all.
Currently science might not be able to unravel the intelligence behind creation, designer or whatever your call it, him, her, they. But the question for the theist is, who designed the designer, and what designed whatever thing that designed the designer in the first place. As I wouldn't want to believe the designer or intelligence behind creation came out of nothing.
Nothing cannot proceed out of nothing, as something cannot proceed out of nothing and therefore something can only proceed out of something.
So, where does this designer originated from

hopefulLandlord:

well, that is a question theists find inconvenient, they can't answer it so they try to make the question appear as though its unintelligent to even ask.

An infant theist with half a brain would answer this question easily and if atheists find it hard to understand then it shows the size of the brain mass they carry around.

Thousands of years ago long before the advent of modern science, it has been established to theists that GOD IS ETERNAL and exists AD INFINITUM.

If based on the above you still think that God (who we know as the designer) would require himself to also be designed then more brain matter is required to fill up some places they are obviously lacking.

butterflyl1on:


An infant theist with half a brain would answer this question easily and if atheists find it hard to understand then it shows the size of the brain mass they carry around.

Thousands of years ago long before the advent of modern science, it has been established to theists that GOD IS ETERNAL and exists AD INFINITUM.

If based on the above you still think that God (who we know as the designer) would require himself to also be designed then more brain matter is required to fill up some places they are obviously lacking.

What proof do you have that god is eternal?

Stop defending god of the gaps.

There are questions that the human brain cannot answer. This doesnt mean you should then fill it with god.

The origin of the universe is still much a mystery. We are left the problem of infinite regress. Just like dividing a number with zero. We dont know the answer.

Thou I'm a theist,I find this argument by design to be rather unconvincing and unnecessary.

butterflyl1on:


An infant theist with half a brain would answer this question easily and if atheists find it hard to understand then it shows the size of the brain mass they carry around.

Thousands of years ago long before the advent of modern science, it has been established to theists that GOD IS ETERNAL and exists AD INFINITUM.

If based on the above you still think that God (who we know as the designer) would require himself to also be designed then more brain matter is required to fill up some places they are obviously lacking.

If god is infinite as you postulated. Then the question is what has he been doing during the timeframe of infinitum that he only woke up from his slumber and finally realise his loneliness and his need to create the universe and its components and then create earth and its inhabitants. If he only realised this need of his only less than 7000yrs ago according to biblical records of the age of earth existence. Then he simply ain't infinite as you claim or he's just an idle personality with lots of personality issues and clueless too

superhumanist:



What proof do you have that god is eternal?

Stop defending god of the gaps.

There are questions that the human brain cannot answer. This doesnt mean you should then fill it with god.

The origin of the universe is still much a mystery. We are left the problem of infinite regress. Just like dividing a number with zero. We dont know the answer.

I do not need to offer you proof especially since you are OF THE OTHER SIDE!

I KNOW GOD IS ETERNAL based on something you do not know and have.

If you say the origin of the universe is a mystery THAT IS A LIE. We KNOW the universe has an origin and we know that a force packed with an infinite amount of energy caused the universe to be (Science has established this).

We also know that THERE IS NOTHING IN EXISTENCE WHICH PACKS AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF ENERGY TO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CAUSE THIS.

So if infinite energy was what brought our universe to be yet we do not have this infinite energy available in our material world and we know that our universe began to exist at some point. This means that what caused our universe to exist by the application of energy infinite energy was not part of our universe but impacted it from outside it.

butterflyl1on:


I do not need to offer you proof especially since you are OF THE OTHER SIDE!

I KNOW GOD IS ETERNAL based on something you do not know and have.

If you say the origin of the universe is a mystery THAT IS A LIE. We KNOW the universe has an origin and we know that a force packed with an infinite amount of energy caused the universe to be (Science has established this).

We also know that THERE IS NOTHING IN EXISTENCE WHICH PACKS AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF ENERGY TO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CAUSE THIS.

So if infinite energy was what brought our universe to be yet we do not have this infinite energy available in our material world and we know that our universe began to exist at some point. This means that what caused our universe to exist by the application of energy infinite energy was not part of our universe but impacted it from outside it.

You say that an infinite energy caused the big bang. where did the energy come from? What is the nature of the energy?

Why is the energy infinite? Why did it not continue big banging?


The big bamg theory is a theory that kerps being refined. Dont habg your theology on it.

joe4christ:


If god is infinite as you postulated. Then the question is what has he been doing during the timeframe of infinitum that he only woke up from his slumber and finally realise his loneliness and his need to create the universe and its components and then create earth and its inhabitants. If he only realised this need of his only less than 7000yrs ago according to biblical records of the age of earth existence. Then he simply ain't infinite as you claim or he's just an idle personality with lots of personality issues and clueless too

I can see several things wrong with your comment so let me list out a few

1. Circular reasoning

2. The big bang connection

3. The evolution connection

4. The Assumptions of Naturalism and Uniformitarianism
5. The distant starlight problem

6. Light travel-time

7. The Horizon Problem

I suggest you read up on all of them and may sense fall on you

superhumanist:



You say that an infinite energy caused the big bang. where did the energy come from? What is the nature of the energy?

Why is the energy infinite? Why did it not continue big banging?


The big bamg theory is a theory that kerps being refined. Dont habg your theology on it.

Watch the video on the first page of this thread of mine and receive some sense

https://www.nairaland.com/4110134/proof-god-5-minutes-thoughtful

butterflyl1on:


You are wrong !

Programming on its own has to do with DELIBERATE process of writing or coding or arrangement. NO Program can exist by itself. Something or someone writes, codes or arranges it so it can efficiently function along the lines it was programmed to.

Laws themselves cannot come from nothing. Laws ALWAYS require an ORIGINAL LAW GIVER. Someone has to initiate laws and they do not initiate themselves.

Regarding design,

design
noun
a plan or drawing produced to show the look and function or workings of a building, garment, or other object before it is made.
a decorative pattern.
purpose or planning that exists behind an action, fact, or object

That definition shows you that NO PLAN, OR PURPOSE exists on its own. Someone or something set It on its course and designed it for a specific purpose and plan.

#GoBackToSchool

But u forgot to mention where the designer/lawyer/programmer originated from, school graduate.

hopefulLandlord:

well, that is a question theists find inconvenient, they can't answer it so they try to make the question appear as though its unintelligent to even ask.

Sweet.

butterflyl1on:

Exactly what the OP is talking about !
Such Lame questions.
OP your hook has caught its first fish sharp sharp

So that question is lame?

butterflyl1on:


An infant theist with half a brain would answer this question easily and if atheists find it hard to understand then it shows the size of the brain mass they carry around.

Thousands of years ago long before the advent of modern science, it has been established to theists that GOD IS ETERNAL and exists AD INFINITUM.

If based on the above you still think that God (who we know as the designer) would require himself to also be designed then more brain matter is required to fill up some places they are obviously lacking.

God the designer, lawyer, and programmer is eternal and originated from nothing. Wow, incredible. If it's easy for u to believe and digest that illogical statement, it's super easy for me to believe such a phenomenon doesn't exist.

butterflyl1on:

I do not need to offer you proof especially since you are OF THE OTHER SIDE!

Do u have proof?

Ayobami97:

God the designer, lawyer, and programmer is eternal and originated from nothing. Wow, incredible. If it's easy for u to believe and digest that illogical statement, it's super easy for me to believe such a phenomenon doesn't exist.

If after reading this comment of mine

Thousands of years ago long before the advent of modern science, it has been established to theists that GOD IS ETERNAL and exists AD INFINITUM.

If based on the above you still think that God (who we know as the designer) would require himself to also be designed then more brain matter is required to fill up some places they are obviously lacking

You still responded by typing the above? Indeed to whom brain is given, sense is expected.

butterflyl1on:


I do not need to offer you proof especially since you are OF THE OTHER SIDE!

I KNOW GOD IS ETERNAL based on something you do not know and have.

You "know" God is eternal based on your imaginations and belief and NOTHING else, as such you can't and have no proof to offer, only empty words.

butterflyl1on:


If after reading this comment of mine



You still responded by typing the above? Indeed to whom brain is given, sense is expected.

What is convincing and reasonable about what u said?
Who were theists that established God as eternal and ad infinitum?
I'm done talking nonsense with u, do u know how many past false beliefs have been clarified by modern science?
So I should just simply belief ur god is eternal and ad infinitum based the on establishment of theists before modern science.

Use ur reason for something good. Don't preach what u can't prove. If that sounds convincing to u, it just nonsense to me.

Ayobami97:

What is convincing and reasonable about what u said?
Who were theists that established God as eternal and ad infinitum?
I'm done talking nonsense with u, do u know how many past false beliefs have been clarified by modern science?
So I should just simply belief ur god is eternal and ad infinitum based the on establishment of theists before modern science.

Use ur reason for something good. Don't preach what u can't prove. If that sounds convincing to u, it just nonsense to me.

Garbage in, garbage out obviously (that's where its at with you)

butterflyl1on:

Garbage in, garbage out obviously (that's where its at with you)

That's what u are good at. When u can't simply give concrete reasons. You start speaking in tongues.

Ayobami97:


If it's reasonable the designer, lawyer or programmer is the beginning of all things and he/she/it/they probably came out of nothing, then I think it's also sounds reasonable to say the design, laws and programming was formed from nothing. They just happen to exist.

Is that a scientific proposition?

Ayobami97:

That's what u are good at.
When u can't simply give concrete reasons. You start speaking in tongues.

Am I your school teacher? Experience is best gotten by ones self. So I guess my higher level of reasoning makes my language to be UNKNOWN TONGUES to you

Learn the language and gain understanding and enlightenment which you wickedly lack.

donnffd:


I see fallacies everywhere...

First of, Let me turn the argument on its head, If a design needs a designer, then obviously your God would also need a creator because the designer has to be more complex than the design and if complexity only comes from complexity, then you run into infinite regression.

2. Not all designs have designers, Evolution is a simple example.

3. DNA is not a programming language, just because it is called a code doesnt mean its the same as a computer programming language, this is a false-equivalence.

All you said there is an oxymoron at best.

OLAADEGBU:


All you said there is an oxymoron at best.

you use words you don't know the meaning of OR how exactly are what he said an "oxymoron"?