Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,195,083 members, 7,957,047 topics. Date: Tuesday, 24 September 2024 at 05:52 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership (10810 Views)
Apostle Kenneth Kenny Kills A Dog, Eats It Raw In Church And Feeds Members / Why Do People Go To Church And Still Go Other Places For Solutions? / Lightning Strikes Rwandan Church And Kills 16 Members (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by Johnrake69: 3:05pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
salvation101: Well... If you say so cool. Anybody that challenge your self serving doctrines is an enemy of the church. It's good. I take solace from the fact that Christ also challenged the man made doctrines and was considered the enemy of the church. |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by BluntBoy(m): 3:07pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
salvation101: So, the angels (or more apt, messengers) were general overseers? A teacher is evidently a light. A star can effectively symbolize a teacher. But is a teacher the same thing as a general overseer? |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by Nobody: 3:13pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
BluntBoy:dey may not av been called GO at dat time but dey were d head of each of those 7 churches. GO is just a title given by men. Could as well av been pope or wat not |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by ivolt: 3:16pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
Biety: Think for yourself, don't let others do your own thinking! |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by ivolt: 3:18pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
OBAGADAFFI: This is bunkum |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by BluntBoy(m): 3:18pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
salvation101: They were overseers and not General Overseer. They were shepherds, not Shepherd. And they were each overseeing a regional body of the one Church of Christ, and not the Church they founded. It was not a one-man Church, not like the religious organizations of Oyedepo and Adeboye. If Adeboye is the General Overseer, then what is God? |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by nicemuyoo: 3:31pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
There is a clear difference between scriptural-historical truth and theological teachings on tithe/ tithing and various other topics. Today i would be mentioning some conclusive statement on tithing based on scriptures and historical facts. 1. Tithe are natural agricultural produce and never money. You 're allow to covert It to money under certain circumstances but you must convert back to acceptable agricultural produce before paying your tithe. If you don't you have to pay a penalty fine on top of your tithe money and once paid it s converted back to food by levies in charge. This was to discourage money tithing. 2. The tithe was a tax system to cater for levites( administrators, judges, teachers etc), widows, orphans, strangers etc. 3. Only increase from selected natural produces from the land of Isreal are acceptable as tithe .you can not pay tithe on from produce from another land 4. A carpenter, farm labourer, fisherman etc do not tithe. Disciples, jesus, never paid tithe. Only people with farmland and livestocks paid tithe on their increase. 5. The tithe is never used for anything other than to feed levites, widows, orphans etc.never used for temple/ church building or any other services. It is an abomination. 6. Temples/ services are run with temple tax a token contribution from each adult. Building is done by voluntary participation and donations. 7. Only a priest/ levites/ tithers/ less privileged eg widows are allowed to enjoy the tithe. 8. Today all who have accepted salvation are priest of the most high , we have one HIGH PRIEST, THE MESSIAH HIMSELF. 9. Tithe was never collected in the early churches. BUT was introduced by roman Catholic church to fund building of huge cathedrals and to pay fat salaries to priest/ bishops. It was Actually imposed on people backed by government law. It was a polished after a public revolt by the people.. It was also abolished in UK after a massive riot. The historic peasant riot. 10. This tithe system was adopted by many countries in Europe to cater for less priviledge in the society hence benefit payments/ food stamps etc. This is completely absent in many African countries today. Folks know the truth and it would set you free. |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by Nobody: 3:32pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
BluntBoy:lol u r just beating about the bush playing with semantics.. They had total control of the churches as was apparent in their admonition as the messages to each pf them was different. And that is the same thing with these churches here. Its not a one man show or a family business. Pastor Adeboye didn't found redeemed church and if God calls him home today, Another person would occupy his position.. And that is the same thing with most of the old generation pentecostal churches. The church wasn't registered in Adeboye or Kumuyi or Babalola family name but as a ministry and if anyone goes home, the family can't lay claim on anything. As the Lord will, another person would occupy that position |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by nicemuyoo: 3:34pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
The bible verses mentioned below has been twisted and abused to support tithing. I would give you the true scriptural interpretation of it not the twisted theological version of it preached in churches. Jesus asked to see the coin they used for payment. He said whose property his this? Caesars. Who's inscription is on it? Caesars . who has authority over this coin / who created this coin? Caesars. So the money belongs to Caesar it is his creation. So this monetary note has nothing to do with God , God does not want it, it is a creation of man for mankind, so give it to Caesar if he demands for it! But give unto God was he demands your soul, heart, love, obedience, worship, your body as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable which is truth worship. GOD a spiritual external being demands all this things. David said silver and Gold , riches he does not want. There is a difference between theological teachings and truth scriptures; that you have to understand if you want to know the truth and accept it. 4They came and said to Him, “Teacher, we know that You are truthful and defer to no one; for You are not partial to any, but teach the way of God in truth. Is it lawful to pay a poll-tax to Caesar, or not? 15“Shall we pay or shall we not pay?” But He, knowing their hypocrisy, said to them, “Why are you testing Me? Bring Me a denarius to look at.” 16They brought one. And He said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” And they said to Him, “Caesar’s.” 17And Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they were amazed at Him. |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by OBAGADAFFI: 3:37pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
ivolt: LOL, I know you are shocked, because it's contrary to what you people tell yourselves. Bring you fact let's debate it |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by BluntBoy(m): 3:38pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
salvation101: You are the one refusing to understand what is being discussed here. The Church was established by Christ and was non-denominitional. Whether it was the Church in corinths or in Rome or in Thessalonica, it was one church with one head (Christ). Not the religious organizations of today founded by men and where many pastors are subjected to one pastor who is the General Overseer or Senior Pastor. Do you want Bible verses to show that there is a difference between shepherd and Shepherd? 1 Like |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by Nobody: 3:41pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
nicemuyoo:y derailing the thread? This thread isn't about tithing. There are several threads on tithing Infact i created one some days back.. Where there is usually misunderstanding among Christians is in the area of tithe, no true beliver will argue about offering. Mal 3 didn't just mention robbing God in tithes alone but in tithes and offering.. So why pick only tithe to talk about? Why not offering? As a matter of fact in churches where tithing is preached, 80% of the congregation aren't faithful with it so why d so much fuss about it? Tell me where giving offering is wrong according to ur Bible |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by Nobody: 3:47pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
BluntBoy:lol i smell Catholic or orthodox Christianity or anti pentecostal movement.. Correct me if am wrong.. Any Church that believes and preaches the full gospel of Jesus is for Jesus. Luke9:50, mark 9:40, matt12:30.. |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by nicemuyoo: 4:00pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
The offerings in that verse referred to the tithe of the tithe which the levites bring to the temple Leviticus 18:26. Not the freewill offering you need to study this scripture properly and stop following theology . They are two different things. "Speak to the Levites and say to them: 'When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD's offering. [qquote author=salvation101 post=62944603] y derailing the thread? This thread isn't about tithing. There are several threads on tithing Infact i created one some days back.. Where there is usually misunderstanding among Christians is in the area of tithe, no true beliver will argue about offering. Mal 3 didn't just mention robbing God in tithes alone but in tithes and offering.. So why pick only tithe to talk about? Why not offering? As a matter of fact in churches where tithing is preached, 80% of the congregation aren't faithful with it so why d so much fuss about it? Tell me where giving offering is wrong according to ur Bible [/quote] |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by Nobody: 4:03pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
HOW DOES "GO YE AND PREACH THE GOSPEL" CORREPOND TO ALL THE TIME BEING SPENT TELLING PEOPLE TO PAY TITHES.? IS THERE ANY WHERE IN THE BIBLE WERE CHRISTIANS WERE COMMANDED TO PREACH OR CAMPAIGN FOR PEOPLE TO PAY TITHES.? THE CHURCH AND THE SO CALLED BIG MEN OF GOD HAVE MISSED IT, THEY SHOULD SWALLOW THEIR VOMIT AND GO BACK TO THE ALMIGHTY. EVERY TITHER, THOU AUTONOMOUS HAS THE RIGHT AND MORAL STANDING TO QUESTION HOW THEIR TITHES IS BEING SPENT. THE CHURCH MUST TELL THE PARISHIONERS. ENOUGH OF ALL THESE SCAM. |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by bezimo(m): 4:03pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
ponziponzi: Defending which stupid things..You are are the one confused. you are not a christian so pointing things out is just a futile waste of time because you are not in a position to understand. There are poor folks in the Canada and dont attempt to downplay the existence of the poor folks who lack food and are homeless yet magnifying the poverty in Nigeria and holding church as responsible.. your logic is upside down. you mean church carering for the needy in Canada but not in Nigeria. You are super ignorant.there is no point even going further. |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by BluntBoy(m): 4:08pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
salvation101: And where is that Church? Where is that Church where the teachers preach the full gospel of Christ? Did Christ preach prosperity theology? Is seed faith a gospel of Christ? 1 Like |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by Iamzik: 4:17pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
salvation101: There is atleast one church on street in Nigeria. Come to lagos and see.... 8-10 churches on a single Street. What more expansion do you need? The era of buildings big cathedrals and openings endless parishes situated right next to them self, the era of proliferation of church buildings is gone. This is the era to preach salvation, righteousness and show practical love to the lost world. Don't confuse expansion of Gods kingdom with establishing new Churches. The Church of Christ universal is beyond your denomination or Church building. How many people in your church are truly saved? Enough of this undue emphasis on financial and population Target. welfar is a big part of the gispel. Jesus preached a complete Gospel. Healed the sick, raised the dead, fed the multitudes twice, opened blind eyes and also thought the people (education). Seven deacons were ordained just to look after believer's welfare in the Early Church and you are here down playing the matter. Is your church registered as an NGO or limited liability company? When the missionaries came, they brought education, health care, roads, etc without asking us for tithes. Our present religious leaders went to these same mission schools practically tuition free, many with scholarships and good job after graduation. Isn't it funny that they turn round to establish schools that only the rich can afford? Widows, orphans ,father less in the congregation are no longer a priority. Welfare is one of the factors that made the early church to grow and spread. Go read the book of acts. and this is the very basis of tithing even from the old testament. God did not create Poverty. We human beings did when we stopped sharing with our neighbours. Tithing was originally meant to strike a balance between the rich and not so rich. I'm not against tithing but the church must wake up to her responsibilities. Let's start making practical impact on the lives of people in the local church. |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by Nnemuka(f): 4:20pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
senrique: |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by Nobody: 4:30pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
nicemuyoo:how easy was it for u to believe dis convolution? The book of malachi 1:1 said it was the prophecy of God tru malachi to the nation of Israel not a tribe.. The word asked, will 'a man' (not will a levite?) rob God? The truth is that alll these words u r saying marks unbelief. It wasn't stated there that d offering mal was talking about here was tithe of tithe but u can believe it. In verse 4 of dat same chapter 3, it talked about the offering of judah nd Jerusalem. Was dat also a tithe pf tithe as well? |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by ponziponzi(m): 4:31pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
bezimo: I am sorry my brother, I can’t help you. |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by Nobody: 4:46pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
Iamzik:That is false. Go back to the book of Acts . Wen d early church started the love was so strong dat dey were selling their properties and laying at the feet of the apostles to share among brethren but wat did dat bring about? It brought carnality, it became a competition nd dats where d incidence of ananias and saphira came up, right after dat in verse 6 we see disagreement among brethren as some felt dey were being cheated. D dispute made the apostle call for d appointment of deacons and left welfarism to dem and dey focused on the gospel. In their words dey said "it is not appropriate for us to leave the work of God and serve tables".. In case u don't know, persecution was wat made the church to grow beyond leaps and bounds. Jesus asked them to take the gospel to all the ends of the world but dey were settled in Jerusalem until persecution came wch scattered dem abroad... Welfarism will only produce carnality cos u can't please everyone. Its important but not primary. U talked about poverty and said its d fault of the church dat ppl r poor, dats false again. Infact dey were poor people in Jesus days, wen mary poured d ointment on him, judas said it should have been sold nd given to the poor but Jesus said "the poor ye have always with you...". By d way, Jesus didn't die on the cross to help us manage our bad conditions but to help us out of it and the only way is to trust and obey |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by nicemuyoo: 5:02pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
The tithe and the Lord's offering mention together refers to the tithe and tithe of the tithe. I have given you where it was defined to Moses by almighty but you don't want to yield to scriptural truth, you prefer theological extrapolations the teachings of men. The offerings of judah refers to the tithe of the tithe ( the Lord's offering) for that region of land. If you read the whole of Malachi the actual robbers were levties not ordinary people or do you what to dispute that as well?? This are scriptural facts levites were the ones stealing but theology would never teach you that!!! salvation101: |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by farem: 6:02pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
stevejomo: Poor brain, please cite references to your allegation. This what a human being is expected to do with this kind of comment. |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by 9inches(m): 7:20pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
Protestant congregations are individualized and have no authority outside their own denomination. If an individual is removed from a ‘congregation’ then he/she can go down the street and join another ‘congregation’ of the same denomination. That is not true with the Catholic Church. If removed from the Catholic Church, one cannot go to another city and join another Catholic Parish. No Evangelical/Protestant Church has the authority to remove someone completely from the church. Remember, Jesus gave specific instructions regarding dealing with members of the Church who were in sin. Matthew 18:15-18 says “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by PointZerom: 7:35pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
salvation101: Well said. Freezer should goan pay the dowry of his wife, he should stop parading her as baby mama. The disciples he said we should follow their footsteps didn't endorse BABY MAMA. 2 Likes |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by loomy(m): 9:33pm On Dec 03, 2017 |
Judgement belongs only to GOD, what we see as wrong seldom turn out to be right (vice versa ) |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by MikaelsonRx(m): 8:42pm On Dec 04, 2017 |
Hiccups: Nobody is demonizing freeze... He's a demon already. 1 Like |
Re: In Defense Of The Church And Its Leadership by kolawoleibukun1: 11:44pm On Jun 02, 2018 |
scatter this useless topic. i killed t useless swine |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (Reply)
Be Wise As 'serpents'. Really? But Satan is the 'Serpent! / Spiritual Benefits Of Bitter Kola / Are Pastors Thieves Without Guns?
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 171 |