Is everyone born with original sin? When does orginal sin get into the human entity? Do foetuses, fertelised eggs and stillborns have orginal sin?

What is original sin?

Image123:

What is original sin?

Somebody ate some fruit and pissed somebody off sometime ago in some garden . . .

Original Sin: a sin said to be inherited by all descendants of Adam; "Adam and Eve committed the original sin when they ate the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden

I think it holds true for a lot of ancient and modern religions (atheists included)

Jagunlabi
You're not clear, stop wasting my time. Maybe huxley should know better. He initially talked of it. Huxley, what is original sin?

No!
Ezekiel.18.20
The soul who sins shall die. The son who shall not bear the guilt of the father.

I am not bound by original sin I don’t know about you!
The only reason why all have sinned is that you can’t go through this world without committing sin.

Image123:

Jagunlabi
You're not clear, stop wasting my time.

I am sure that you have your own definition, so why not spit it out.

This is your life

[flash=500,400]http://media.chick.com/tract_1.swf[/flash]

Yes everyone is born is born with Original Sin. Even David the psalmist recognised this that is why he said in his prayer in Psalms 51 1 Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash away all my iniquity
and cleanse me from my sin.

3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is always before me.

4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you are proved right when you speak
and justified when you judge.

5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Also that is why Jesus dies for all and not for some. You can see this original sin manifest itself in a little in different ways. Watch your new born baby grow you will discover some nagative atittude, behaviour, habits and acts that was never learnt from anyone. Many times we do imagine where they learnt such, but it is just the natural sin(original sin) manifesting itself in them.

It raises another issue. is Jesus Christ acclaimed to be the only personality to have lived and lives without SIN?

He was born of Mary the Virgin through Immaculate Conception (as the Catholics will interject at this point) regardless he fell to the sin of Anger at the scattering of the Temple where marketers of worship and sacrificial items sold in open air.

So was Christ the Messiah truly without SIN

I think that we are all born "into" original sin(development of the ego) instead of "with" original sin. We were clean at birth - meaning born in an initial state of egolessness - but gradually grow into the state of ego as our minds develop as we grew older.

lagerwhenindoubt:

It raises another issue. is Jesus Christ acclaimed to be the only personality to have lived and lives without SIN?

He was born of Mary the Virgin through Immaculate Conception (as the Catholics will interject at this point) regardless he fell to the sin of Anger at the scattering of the Temple where marketers of worship and sacrificial items sold in open air.
So was Christ the Messiah truly without SIN

The original sin has to do with the nature of the fallen man through Adam. Jesus was never a partaker of adamic nature and sin until he got to the cross. His conduct through anger did not make him a sinner .sin is not the conduct but a nature. anger is not a sin. The original sin flowed through blood. But Jesus blood didn't come from neither Mary nor Joseph .

Jenwitemi:

I think that we are all born "into" original sin(development of the ego) instead of "with" original sin. We were clean at birth - meaning born in an initial state of egolessness - but gradually grow into the state of ego as our minds develop as we grew older.

from my understanding of scriptures , we were born into sin and born "with" sin in our nature.

karo93:

No!
Ezekiel.18.20
The soul who sins shall die. The son who shall not bear the guilt of the father.

I am not bound by original sin I don’t know about you!
The only reason why all have sinned is that you can’t go through this world without committing sin.

You're right and wrong at the same time - while you're not born with sin, you are born with the sinful nature - the nature that will lead you to sin inevitably because it is inherently flawed by Adam's sin.

I have huge problems with the original sin doctrine but I'll be succinct and won't get into expletives.

If Adam wasn't suffering from original sin syndrome, how come he sinned?

If God loved/loves us that much, I think we all wouldn't mind if he stopped him from procreating and He created another prototype without the freaking blot of sin. I believe we're all unique and sort of equal and parents and offspring is just a matter of who came first. I will exist if I came through other parents. I might have different looks and predicament but my spirit will be the same. So I don't necessary have to come from Adam.

To cut a long story short, if we have a sinful nature, it is not because Adam disobeyed God. It is because we're created that way. We have free will. Someone said why do kids naturally gravitate towards being naughty. Do you suppose God came down from heaven to teach their parents the good they in turn teach their wards? It is a ridiculous argument. Man gravitates towards both good and evil and the dominant one determines whether you're a good person or not. Some atheists who believe they have no God to answer to refrain from evil when they can get away with it from the good of their hearts. Falling in love, if you believe such a thing exists, is enough to disprove original sin. Sometimes, you just love someone no matter how much pain he/she brings you and sometimes it is illogical.

No original sin. Just freewill. No one is free from sin so I accept everybody sins but I'm sure even Hitler can point to one act of kindness he did without any hope of reward or fear of punishment.

[size=3pt]And I said, I'll be succinct [/size]

vescucci:

Some atheists who believe they have no God to answer to refrain from evil when they can get away with it from the good of their hearts.

Why would they need to refrain from evil, only when they can get away with it? Is there some penalty that will accrue if they cannot get away with refraining from evil? Why not refrain from evil all the time?

@Joagbaje:  « #11 on: Today at 09:54:40 PM »  
[Quote]The original sin has to do with the nature of the fallen man through Adam.  Jesus was never a partaker of adamic nature and sin until he got to the cross. His conduct through anger did not make him a sinner .sin is not the conduct but a nature. anger is not a sin. The original sin flowed through blood. But Jesus blood didn't come from neither Mary nor Joseph[/quote]Jesus was nourished as nothingness in the belly of the young Virgin, other than the "spirit" mounting her by which she was covered, overshadowed, came upon. Then Jeus developed in that womb/utherus through the placenta, unbilical cord, where all the foods via the blood of Mary, until be was delivered frailed and weak. As a helpless infant baby he suckled the breast of Mary. He didnt feed himself, except what Mary provided, just any baby from the mother.

Jesus was not able to hold his own head on his neck, untill he grew in strength. He went through each of the processes and stages, every child goes through. He says he is human. He says he is son of man. he says he was a prophet, when he frustratedly said a prophet is not honored in his own town (so who was he referrring to except him, the only prophet around at that time, since John, his cousin was already beheaded, and Zachariah was dead, also?).

He further he was not "good' since it is Only One that is "Good" and that Only One is God Who is in Heaven. I hope he did not forget his blood in his body that you said was not from Mary, when he said he was not good enough? Or it is you who is living in fantastic wishful thinking about him? Jesus begged God who he called for the very name by any name, and I will say the proper name of that God was "Eloi" which Jesus said, and not the Jehovah or Yahweh, which he did not say. He cried to, supplicatted to, petitioned God, Who he called "Eloi". He made prayer which he called "the Lord's Prayer" where by he says "forgive us" our sins, ",  and not :forgive them their sins, ".


Where are you confused that if humans have sins, Jesus who clearly was man would not have sins? There is no original sin, y'all.

aletheia:

Why would they need to refrain from evil, only when they can get away with it? Is there some penalty that will accrue if they cannot get away with refraining from evil? Why not refrain from evil all the time?

You were too much in a hurry to make a point that you saw the opposite of what I said and meant. Do you suppose anyone does evil only when they will get caught and refrain when it's like taking candy away from a baby?

vescucci:

You were too much in a hurry to make a point that you saw the opposite of what I said and meant. Do you suppose anyone does evil only when they will get caught and refrain when it's like taking candy away from a baby?

^^^What are you going on about? So what point was I trying to make? Clarity of expression underpins good communication and cuts down on misunderstandings.
What exactly do you mean by the following statement?

vescucci:

Some atheists who believe they have no God to answer to refrain from evil when they can get away with it from the good of their hearts.

So what happens when atheists cannot get away with refraining from evil? Or don't you understand the implied meaning of that phrase: "when they can get away with it"

Don't burst a gut. If I wasn't communicating clearly, it's my fault. But you should have asked for clarification. Instead, you were reading the opposite of what I meant as if it were definitive and lucid.

Some atheists who believe they have no God to answer to refrain from evil even when they can get away with it[b],[/b] from the good of their hearts.

Happy now?

nopuqeater:

@Joagbaje: « #11 on: Today at 09:54:40 PM » Jesus was nourished as nothingness in the belly of the young Virgin, other than the "spirit" mounting her by which she was covered, overshadowed, came upon. Then Jeus developed in that womb/utherus through the placenta, unbilical cord, where all the foods via the blood of Mary, until be was delivered frailed and weak. As a helpless infant baby he suckled the bosom of Mary. He didnt feed himself, except what Mary provided, just any baby from the mother.

I dont really know your point. but if your reference to umblical cord etc was to make Jesus appear a sinner, Youre making a mistake. Jesus did not have sin in his blood. A child gets his blood from the father and not the mother biologically , so Mary is disconnected from being the source of Jesus blood. You can trace parterniny of a child through the blood for this reason. But since Joseph was not involved in the conception of christ. He also is disconnected from Jesus blood.

So where did the blood of Jesus come from?. It came from thesame source of his life. "The Word" through the holyghost. Mary and Joseph's blood was infested with the original sin of Adam. If the blood of Jesus had come from either of them, Jesus would not have been qualified to save us because his blood would have been un acceptable for sacrifice. And that would also have meant that any other person could have died for us. You trmple upon the blood of Jesus and its purity to equate his blood to the fallen man's blood and to labell Christ a sinner.

If jesus was a sinner , he would have been unqualified to save us. He had to be a spotless. lamb.

Mt 27:24
When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
(KJV)

This statement qualified Jesus to be a perfect sacrifice.This utterance rather that set him free, became the proof that he was the perfect sacrifice.

He further (said)he was not "good' since it is Only One that is "Good" and that Only One is God Who is in Heaven. I hope he did not forget his blood in his body that you said was not from Mary, when he said he was not good enough? Or it is you who is living in fantastic wishful thinking about him?

You are trying to project the doctrine of the Socinianism . If he said only God is good, Was he not God?

Philipians 2:5
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Jesus only rejected the human title and flattery. If a man holds a public title and yet a poster on nairaland, It will be unethical to come and say " i am the commisioner of police for lagos state" It may land him in trouble officially.He is merely a poster on nairaland like any other poster.His title is for his office. But that does not mean he is not the commissioner of police.

Joh 5:41
I receive not honour from men.



Where are you [b]confused that if humans have sins, Jesus who clearly was man would not have sins? There is no original sin, y'all.[/b]
[quote][/quote]

Im not confused. Jesus only became sin. on the cross. God made him sin. He didnt sin.

Heb 4:15
but (Jesus) was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

vescucci:

Don't burst a gut. If I wasn't communicating clearly, it's my fault. But you should have asked for clarification. Instead, you were reading the opposite of what I meant as if it were definitive and lucid.

Some atheists who believe they have no God to answer to refrain from evil even when they can get away with it[b],[/b] from the good of their hearts.

Happy now?

I guess what youre trying to say is That some claim to be atheist just to get away with wrong doing and guilt by claiming there is no God and thereby excuse their evil by denial.

No, joagbaje, you got your understanding from your own interpretations of the scriptures and i think are very flawed. But that is fine, we're all entitled to our own opinions and interpretations.

Back to the issue; if we were born already "with" sin, wouldn't that mean that our "sin" is to have been born? To be existing or to have existed? Is that logical to you? I mean, how dare we exist, or to have been born at all? Is that fair to us for a creator to slap a negative on us for just being born? That is neither logical nor just. And God is supposed to be just, right? To be a sinner and in debt before even being born is the cruelest, most fascist, dictatorial concept i have ever heard. I think the islamic perspective on this one is a lot better because it is more consistent with logic and commonsense.

And what do you say of the argument that the concept of the "original sin" have been used as an excuse to suppress the female side of humanity, the womenfolk? Can you give your own opinion and not bible quotes, please.

Joagbaje:

from my understanding of scriptures , we were born into sin and born "with" sin in our nature.

Jenwitemi:

No, joagbaje, you got your understanding from your own interpretations of the scriptures and i think are very flawed. But that is fine, we're all entitled to our own opinions and interpretations.

Back to the issue; if we were born already "with" sin, wouldn't that mean that our "sin" is to have been born? To be existing or to have existed? Is that logical to you? I mean, how dare we exist, or to have been born at all? Is that fair to us for a creator to slap a negative on us for just being born? That is neither logical nor just. And God is supposed to be just, right? To be a sinner and in debt before even being born is the cruelest, most fascist, dictatorial concept i have ever heard. I think the islamic perspective on this one is a lot better because it is more consistent with logic and commonsense.

In covenatS , there are covenant heads.Whatever happens to the covenat head is binding on all. Even the innocent. I was not there when Bakassi was ceeded to cameroun. I diddnt sign the pact. Thats even too far. The indigenes of bakassi plus their king didnt sign any document ceding that place to camerounians. But the president then did. either the indigenes agree or not. It is binding on them.Even to the inocent unborn child.
Thesame way. Adam was man's covenant head. When he yielded to the devil and became sin in his nature, it was binding on every man.

Ro 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Ro 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

All became sin , through what Adam did. You dont have to do anything wrong to be a sinner. You were born in it. You need a saviour.

There,s a new covenant, and the covenant head is Jesus. Through is obedience , we have been recconciled, not by our own acts but by his oedience.Its binding on us.

And what do you say of the argument that the concept of the "original sin" have been used as an excuse to suppress the female side of humanity, the womenfolk? Can you give your own opinion and not bible quotes, please.

There is no such thing. The bible says "ALL" not female or male

Na wa o. I think I need to rephrase. I'm just getting misunderstood all over the place. What I was saying is that even atheists, who have no concept of God who can either punish or reward them, still do good when they have nothing to gain and desist from evil when they have nothing to lose. What I'm saying is that we have the same capacity to do good as to do evil.

I cannot believe that such a concept as original sin can be reduced to biology. So there sin in our blood. Our actual blood! Unbelievable. And this sin is gotten from the male only. So original sin is in effect a sexually transmitted disease. Wow. If Matthew was resurrected today, modern Christians will teach him a lot of new things. No doubt about it.

Joagbaje:

In covenatS , there are covenant heads.Whatever happens to the covenat head is binding on all. Even the innocent. I was not there when Bakassi was ceeded to cameroun. I diddnt sign the pact. Thats even too far. The indigenes of bakassi plus their king didnt sign any document ceding that place to camerounians. But the president then did. either the indigenes agree or not. It is binding on them.Even to the inocent unborn child.
Thesame way. Adam was man's covenant head. When he yielded to the devil and became sin in his nature, it was binding on every man.

Ro 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Ro 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:  

All became sin , through what Adam did. You dont have to do anything wrong to be a sinner. You were born in it. You need a saviour.

There,s a new covenant, and the covenant head is Jesus. Through is obedience , we have been recconciled, not by our own acts but by his oedience.Its binding on us.

Okay, i will not dispute this with you any longer since your writings in this post represent your own personal interpretations, and i believe everyone is entitled to their own way of interpreting things.

I do have my own interpretation of the "original sin" concept and it is not as literal as yours, meaning that i see the concept as only a parable to a much deeper spiritual truth that goes beyond all religious  doctrinal boundaries. If you want to hear it, let me know.

Joagbaje:

There is no such thing. The bible says "ALL" not female or male

But it cannot be denied that the event in the garden has been used against the womenfolk. Eve has been accused of being the cause of this sin by the menfolk for millenia. Surely you cannot deny this to have been going on. That would be foolishness.

It all boils down to misinterpretations of scriptural parables, which are way too literal in nature. Joagbaje's is a classical example.

vescucci:

Na wa o. I think I need to rephrase. I'm just getting misunderstood all over the place. What I was saying is that even atheists, who have no concept of God who can either punish or reward them, still do good when they have nothing to gain and desist from evil when they have nothing to lose. What I'm saying is that we have the same capacity to do good as to do evil.

I cannot believe that such a concept as original sin can be reduced to biology. So there sin in our blood. Our actual blood! Unbelievable. And this sin is gotten from the male only. So original sin is in effect a sexually transmitted disease. Wow. If Matthew was resurrected today, modern Christians will teach him a lot of new things. No doubt about it.

. . .

The good thing about this section of the forum is that you don't need to waste your time building a time travelling machine to go back into the past (say 2nd-3rd century A.C.).

vescucci:

Don't burst a gut. If I wasn't communicating clearly, it's my fault. But you should have asked for clarification. Instead, you were reading the opposite of what I meant as if it were definitive and lucid.

Some atheists who believe they have no God to answer to refrain from evil even when they can get away with it[b],[/b] from the good of their hearts.
Happy now?

Yes
. . .See all the posts that followed your little "miscommunication"

@Joagabje: About the blood of baby coming from Father, and since Jesus's blood is not from Mary, therefore must be from Father God. Check your post numbered 20 on this page.

Here is what is stated: the baby makes its own blood. Once the baby begins to grow, it
forms its own bones, skin, hair, etc. and also begins making blood.

You proposing that Jesus have the same blood and DNA as Eloi, Who sent Jesus is pure lie and your own making, lacking firm emotion and good medicine.

What will Christian not say or do to try to make us believe that a human being, which was Jesus is now God, permanently?

Lol, Aletheia. It was my modified paragraph that you quoted that someone else misconstrued into an even more fabulous yarn even though you understood. But to his credit, he asked if his interpretation was the same with mine.

Nopuqeater, stop riling up Christians, will you. What they believe is their business

No every child is born good it is the society that corrupt children. And one more thing for the xtains that claim people are born with sin how come after Jesus "died" for your sins your kids are still being born sinners all the generations after him are still being born sinners, I just don't get it. a more better way to see it may be as you guys claims : Adam sins people of the world begins to inherit sin then Jesus "died" for the sins hence they inheritable sins are canceled and yet people still inherit sins; it seems we have been conned.