NPComplete:


Nonsense. Please stop fouling this thread with such unintelligent responses. I am weary of responding to such folly.

Nope actually it is modern hygiene and health is what has stopped people from picking food from the streets. Even in the middle ages, rich people were not having their baths and if their food falls on the ground they ate it.

Do u know that if u train a dog to eat from a bowl and in the house it will become very choosy about what and where it eats? The only reason u can boast about not eating from the street is abundance and training. If there were to be a famine now, u won't be any different from those feral animals u disdain. When push comes to shove, u will lose all this human exclusivity in which u are so conceited.

The only reason I am replying is because of other people that will come and read this thread. Not because I think u are smart enough to understand sound arguments. Cheers

Now this is a smart person.

superboyspecial:


Pls,send me ur number,need to ask u a few questions on atheism,I bliv u'd be of help

I've replied you sir

I still won't understand why people think every stupid question demands a response.

Primesky:
God said " I will greatly increase thy pain..." So the pain was already there. So please, don't try to discredit the word of God. The pain women have is more than what its supposed to be. Take it or live it. Thanks.

Going through with this line of reasoning, one has to wonder why pain (no matter how small) existed BEFORE the original sin as everything was perfect and Adam+Eve were created in his image. Wouldn't make sense for pain to exist before the curse.

But like NPComplete said, these arguments are only for educational purposes. They're trivial compared to other logical inconsistencies in the Bible.

NPComplete:


Nonsense. Please stop fouling this thread with such unintelligent responses. I am weary of responding to such folly.

Nope actually it is modern hygiene and health is what has stopped people from picking food from the streets. Even in the middle ages, rich people were not having their baths and if their food falls on the ground they ate it.

Do u know that if u train a dog to eat from a bowl and in the house it will become very choosy about what and where it eats? The only reason u can boast about not eating from the street is abundance and training. If there were to be a famine now, u won't be any different from those feral animals u disdain. When push comes to shove, u will lose all this human exclusivity in which u are so conceited.

The only reason I am replying is because of other people that will come and read this thread. Not because I think u are smart enough to understand sound arguments. Cheers

I'm only astonished by your command of English not your judgement with the regards to the subject matter. How did you become such a pen maestro, plese?
I will appreciate any tip or guide. Thanks

PreciousJuice:
I'm not here to argue, but I want to beg every reasonable being to ignore the blasphemy on this thread, either you believe it or not all I know is there is God and God's doing and wisdom is greater than science or any confused personality nor humans can comprehend, believe in God and stop doubting or questioning God's existence and doings, I used to think I'm smart and say a lot of things to prove God is not perfect and all right but I paid badly for it. now I know how foolish I was and I wish I never poke my nose in God's affair, This Thread Is Fruitless but you @op&NPComplete will learn and understand how stupid what you doing is, God is not human that you can call out, God is omnipotent and superior, you can't question a King's authority or judgment over his subjects not to talk of Almighty God, Stop The Blasphemy against my God.

Stupid post. Lots of words but not even one sense.

JudgementHammer:

Since you can think, you should have also thought of why you have to wear clothes to cover ur nakkeedness unlike animals, why u have d highest developed brain among animals and why you can't pick foods from the floor or have sex on the streets without being shy. The same proof that equates you with animals as long as labour pain is concerned, should competently equate you with them in those areas too. Your thinking is half-done just like an animal's thinking shd be.

Do you know that animals struggles to get food existed with them before God created man on d 6th day. When God created Lions and other animals in d world, they immediately begin their struggle to fight for prey and the preys with immediate sense to elude their predators. They were also created with their physiological responses to childbirth.

Man alone was d one created out of special consideration..God said now let's create man In our image and likeness, why were animals not so lucky? After creating them in his likeness, be also put them in a special garden called eden guarded by angels. They were so special, they were d only one that could talk and with the highest developed brain. In the same special way, he made them without labour pain until they brought themselves under the curse by eating the forbidden fruit as recorded in the bible and also had to be clothed unlike animals.
S

nice

Penisinpenisout:


Feel free to kill yourself you subhuman. you are probably dragging everyone around you down simply by being alive.

For you to actually think that animals don't feel pain it's quite painful, u should be ashamed of yourself.

NPComplete:


You atheists have corrupted many people on this forum with your ideology. May the blood of Jesus wash away your sins.

Lmao!

royalamour:
So sometimes I see animals give birth and they moan and groan as a result of the pains they feel.

And I start to wonder if they ate the forbidden fruit and was cursed too.

So why do they feel pains like children of Eve?

This is one of the most misunderstood portions of the bible.

HOW COULD ADAM AND EVE HAVE UNDERSTOOD WHAT GOD MEANT BY OLD AGE AND DEATH AS PUNISHMENT IF THEY HAD NEVER SEEN IT? Growing old and dieing were around them in the plant and animal kingdoms.

What God did to Eve can be described as "REMOVAL OF SUBSIDY". Animals were not part of the whole no suffering and everlasting life privileges that Humans were to enjoy so WHEN ADAM AND EVE REBELLED, THAT PRIVILEGE WAS TAKEN AWAY SO WE NOW FEEL THE FULL IMPACT OF TRYING TO LIVE ON THEIR OWN LIKE ANIMALS AS THEY PREVIOUSLY DIDN'T APPRECIATE GOD'S SPECIAL GUIDANCE AND PROTECTION OVER THEIR DAILY DEALINGS.

hopefulLandlord:

I've replied you sir

seen it...will msg u as soon as I'm free...thanks

NPComplete:


Stupid post. Lots of words but not even one sense.

Jumping around calling any counter post to yours "stupid" is just a show of your bully and childish mentality. Talking about Genesis 3, I would like to post that particular portion of scripture. I believe it was written in English language when translated so let's consider the words together.

Genesis 3:16

16 To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

I deliberately made bold some words there. Childbirth already had pains associated with it and the Bible never hinted at NO pain. It says I will make YOUR PAINS in childbearing very severe.

This means the pains woman go through today during child and the painful labour was not meant to be as severe as that.

It is on record that the pain levels during labour or delivery ranks extremely high for humans than for animals. Animals never reach the pain threshold where they end up screaming. They get uncomfortable and do feel a bit of pain but not like humans.

So for even animals, a bit of pain is expected same way for humans pain was already there but God simply said HE WOULD INCREASE THE PAIN WHICH ALREADY EXISTED.

It's English but a lot of people still fail to see what is right before their eyes.

I run and own a piggery and have seen my pigs give birth a lot and it is always pain free and at most a bit uncomfortable. My gilts and my sow (those who have given birth before) never scream in pain. They may grunt during childbirth but that's just about it.

cc royalamour

royalamour:
So sometimes I see animals give birth and they moan and groan as a result of the pains they feel.

And I start to wonder if they ate the forbidden fruit and was cursed too.

So why do they feel pains like children of Eve?

The pain might be due to some complications and so they assisted by humans or probably due to forcing something that big out of their small hole, so they will probably feel some discomfort, but labour pain is different, it more intense more far more painful, you will see women in labour for hours and days in pain, while animals do it on their own within a few minutes to hours without much stress

adegeye38:

The pain might be due to some complications and so they assisted by humans or probably due to forcing something that big out of their small hole, so they will probably feel some discomfort, but labour pain is different, it more intense more far more painful, you will see women in labour for hours and days in pain, while animals do it on their own within a few minutes to hours without much stress

The OP asked a question from a place of immense ignorance and atheists decided to fan this ignorance into a flame as if it was the truth. It's a typical strategy they enjoy working with.

TomHagen:
My position remains the same

It is excessively conceited, being absorbed in oneself and unbefitting conduct to remain in same position, when faced with stark reality

TomHagen:
You are adjusting your beliefs to align with reality

No.
The state of things, as they actually exist, I reiterate, is that,
everyone and everything shares the effect, result or outcome of the incident that occurred between the trio in the garden.

We feel pain differently,
which is why, some faint, at a mere sight of a hypodermic syringe or needle, whilst some take same injection, without batting an eyelid
and why, some undergo eye surgery needing the benefit of an anesthesia to induce temporary loss of sensation or awareness and some dont.

TomHagen:
Nothing in the Bible suggests that the punishment would not be same for everyone.

The punishment is the same for everyone

The ground, inarguably is accursed
Whatever came out of the ground (i.e. animals)
whatever is made off the ground (i.e. human beings) are subjected to the curse, in varying state of undergoing pain, distress or hardship

None is exempted from the original curse

Wonder why some people will be so dullard to even say all this huge thing that its origin is unfold will say its natural without somebody planting it or monitor it..edakun is there not natural version of car,house,cloth or jet nigba yen

Pick up your Bible and avoid unnecessary gists and arguments!
In the book of Genesis 3:14 states that the serpent is cursed above all cattle and beasts of the field; Automatically, the animals were cursed also for the sins of Adam and Eve!
And in verse 17 of the same chapter; the ground is cursed !!!

butterflyl1on:


Jumping around calling any counter post to yours "stupid" is just a show of your bully and childish mentality. Talking about Genesis 3, I would like to post that particular portion of scripture. I believe it was written in English language when translated so let's consider the words together.



I deliberately made bold some words there. Childbirth already had pains associated with it and the Bible never hinted at NO pain. It says I will make YOUR PAINS in childbearing very severe.

This means the pains woman go through today during child and the painful labour was not meant to be as severe as that.

It is on record that the pain levels during labour or delivery ranks extremely high for humans than for animals. Animals never reach the pain threshold where they end up screaming. They get uncomfortable and do feel a bit of pain but not like humans.

So for even animals, a bit of pain is expected same way for humans pain was already there but God simply said HE WOULD INCREASE THE PAIN WHICH ALREADY EXISTED.

It's English but a lot of people still fail to see what is right before their eyes.

cc royalamour

This one has come with his skewed logic again. And I keep asking what sin did the hyenas commit that made their labour more painful than even humans?
Since u highlight "painful labour" it means the labour should have been painless before the curse so why do other animals have painful labour as well?
I know u won't make sense today. So I won't even bother replying u again.

JudgementHammer:

Lol you're just one embittered ignoramus. I should be d one getting irritated with ur folly. You post to please people.

Wish to see you on your sick bed after accident has claimed ur mobility then will wonder who you will call upon.

when your type run short of points to argue you embrace name calling and insults. Kai

charliboy654:

For you to actually think that animals don't feel pain it's quite painful, u should be ashamed of yourself.

Sorry! Bad mood.

NPComplete:



Very very stupid assumptions. Dude learn how to think and get your facts right before entering into sensible conversations.

1. A lot of cultures existed that go about stark naked and are not bothered by it. The modern world is what has placed a premium on clothing. Even the ancient Greeks went around naked mostly. So what is your point?

2. Have u ever heard of orgies? Many cultures existed where there was sex in the streets too. Dude make sense please. I am begging u.

3. People are picking food on the streets even today. A lot of homeless people do. Certainly famine stricken nations do not share your abhorrence for food fallen on the ground. No sense in that your comment whatsoever.

The rest of post is just stupid religious drivel that has no backing beyond the fact that it is in the Holy Writ. I suppose u were there when God was saying all those things for u to be using it as a case for a rational argument.

Respond with intelligence next time.

1. The early cultures don't go totally naked. In the primitive age you referred, their private parts are covered with leaves while their young girls used leaves to cover their nipples.
So, you still need to answer the guy why humans put on coverings why animals don't till date? Specifically to cover their private parts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_in_ancient_Egypt
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_in_ancient_Greece

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_in_the_ancient_world
2. There is no such culture that they use indiscriminate sex as a way of life. Orgy happen when there is breakdown of law and order or in a social gathering. I wish you show me a culture where orgy become their way of life.
3. I think your argument here makes no sense at all. The group you referred to picking food on the street for a reason which is not limited to untold factors and not because it was natural phenomenon.

Now to the mean issue. No woman born of a woman that doesn't experience birth pains. The pain only varies from women to women. The pain of A woman may be severe while that of B woman may be less severe. There is no painless delivery during birth. Take time and ask women around you and also browse it. Read through the link below:
http://m.kidshealth.org/en/parents/childbirth-pain.html?WT.ac=

But you cannot argue that not all animals go through pain during delivery. This should have given you distinction between human being and other animals.

I would have given you some Bible passages that gave reasons for the pains women go through during birth giving but I don't want to go biblical and rather scientific.

Eeroh95:
About the forbidden fruit,I still wonder why God put it there knowing fully well that eve or Adam was eventually going to eat it and ofcourse the word, GO AND MULTIPLY which means to me [giving birth to children]....was the sin/apple/fruit necessary for human population?.. Remember God knows the beginning and the end ... enlighten me

God has the ability to look into future "if he wishes to" but he created man as a free moral agent so they had the choice to accept satan's advice to disobey and pursue independence or remain steadfast to their creator and retain his guidance. They were "NOT DESTINED" to eat the fruit! The fruit was not sex and NO it was not necesary for human population.

NPComplete:


This one has come with his skewed logic again. And I keep asking what sin did the hyenas commit that made their labour more painful than even humans?
Since u highlight "painful labour" it means the labour should have been painless before the curse so why do other animals have painful labour as well?
I know u won't make sense today. So I won't even bother replying u again.

You have a major problem!

SMH. Do you know what painless means? Painless means absolutely no pain. The Bible never hinted at anything of the sort. It says, God will INCREASE their pain. This means there was already a degree of pain but this would be increased.

Stop trying to twist what is written in plain every day English.

Regarding the hyenas, every creatures body is specially adapted for their method of delivery. If a hyena dies in the process it surely wouldn't be due to pain but it would be due to complications during birth.

I have actually watched a few hyena labour and delivery videos on YouTube (with audio) and none went crazy with pain assuming the pain was severe. They were uncomfortable yes but not in the kind of pain you would call severe even if it means that their clitoris had to split for the baby to come forth.

Your imagination I am sure is what is painting a gory picture for you due to the fact that they have to give birth through a very narrow channel which sometimes causes a tear to occur. Can you show me a measurement of the pain levels a hyena experiences at labour and that humans experience during labour as well?

That is when facts would speak. But running around with assumptions is a very ugly side to show.

NPComplete:


This one has come with his skewed logic again. And I keep asking what sin did the hyenas commit that made their labour more painful than even humans?
Since u highlight "painful labour" it means the labour should have been painless before the curse so why do other animals have painful labour as well?
I know u won't make sense today. So I won't even bother replying u again.

NPComplete this link is to all the Bible versions I could get. All of them talk about Genesis 3:16 and all of them say the same thing.

What they say is that THERE IS AN INCREASE, A MULTIPLICATION, A SHARPENING, of pains in childbirth for women as declared by God.

What this means is that Pain was already there for a woman in labour but at a much lesser degree and it is this little pain that God said he would INCREASE, MULTIPLY OR SHARPEN.

http://biblehub.com/genesis/3-16.htm

read the link and refrain from being deceptive with scripture especially when everyone else has access to it and practically everyone can read in an understandable manner.

JudgementHammer:

Since you can think, you should have also thought of why you have to wear clothes to cover ur nakkeedness unlike animals, why u have d highest developed brain among animals and why you can't pick foods from the floor or have sex on the streets without being shy. The same proof that equates you with animals as long as labour pain is concerned, should competently equate you with them in those areas too. Your thinking is half-done just like an animal's thinking shd be.

Do you know that animals struggles to get food existed with them before God created man on d 6th day. When God created Lions and other animals in d world, they immediately begin their struggle to fight for prey and the preys with immediate sense to elude their predators. They were also created with their physiological responses to childbirth.

Man alone was d one created out of special consideration..God said now let's create man In our image and likeness, why were animals not so lucky? After creating them in his likeness, be also put them in a special garden called eden guarded by angels. They were so special, they were d only one that could talk and with the highest developed brain. In the same special way, he made them without labour pain until they brought themselves under the curse by eating the forbidden fruit as recorded in the bible and also had to be clothed unlike animals.

no matter how you decorate bullshit, it'll still stink

gmoney12:
fill ur self with d holy spirit and answer the question

bro you are meant to not understand everything, even if you get an answer to this you'll still come up with more questions. But know one thing our God is not mocked.

butterflyl1on:


NPComplete this link is to all the Bible versions I could get. All of them talk about Genesis 3:16 and all of them say the same thing.

What they say is that THERE IS AN INCREASE, A MULTIPLICATION, A SHARPENING, of pains in childbirth for women as declared by God.

What this means is that Pain was already there for a woman in labour but at a much lesser degree and it is this little pain that God said he would INCREASE, MULTIPLY OR SHARPEN.

http://biblehub.com/genesis/3-16.htm

read the link and refrain from being deceptive with scripture especially when everyone else has access to it and practically everyone can read in an understandable manner.

OK now I am interested in this conversation with u. My own KJV says " I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception". So that can be interpreted to mean the lengthening of time it takes to conceive a child. It is u modern Christians that has started twisting the bible to help yourselves.
Then it goes on to say ".....in sorrow shall thou bring forth children". That means they weren't supposed to bring forth children in sorrow were it not for their transgressions.

Mind u, at this time Eve hasn't given birth to any child before. So u can't just assume there was a little pain before.

ihatesycophant:

1. The early cultures don't go totally naked. In the primitive age you referred, their private parts are covered with leaves while their young girls used leaves to cover their nipples.
So, you still need to answer the guy why humans put on coverings why animals don't till date? Specifically to cover their private parts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_in_ancient_Egypt
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_in_ancient_Greece

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_in_the_ancient_world
2. There is no such culture that they use indiscriminate sex as a way of life. Orgy happen when there is breakdown of law and order or in a social gathering. I wish you show me a culture where orgy become their way of life.
3. I think your argument here makes no sense at all. The group you referred to picking food on the street for a reason which is not limited to untold factors and not because it was natural phenomenon.

Now to the mean issue. No woman born of a woman that doesn't experience birth pains. The pain only varies from women to women. The pain of A woman may be severe while that of B woman may be less severe. There is no painless delivery during birth. Take time and ask women around you and also browse it. Read through the link below:
http://m.kidshealth.org/en/parents/childbirth-pain.html?WT.ac=

But you cannot argue that not all animals go through pain during delivery. This should have given you distinction between human being and other animals.

I would have given you some Bible passages that gave reasons for the pains women go through during birth giving but I don't want to go biblical and rather scientific.

Dude do you research well. There are primitive people who are unclad even until this day. So that is not even an argument. Search for "nude tribes" on Google and help urself.

For u to say there was no culture that used indiscriminate sex as a way of life shows u don't know history.

Your first 2 points shows u nothing about the topic u are discussing so I didn't even bother reading the rest
Read more and come back for a discussion.

hopefulLandlord:
I once asked this question too

https://www.nairaland.com/3189154/why-did-curse-adam-eve

How this use be complicated issue? you should rather ask yourself if animals go into labour.... days and hours of abour is the pain.

NPComplete:


OK now I am interested in this conversation with u. My own KJV says " I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception". So that can be interpreted to mean the lengthening of time it takes to conceive a child. It is u modern Christians that has started twisting the bible to help yourselves.
Then it goes on to say ".....in sorrow shall thou bring forth children". That means they weren't supposed to bring forth children in sorrow were it not for their transgressions.

Mind u, at this time Eve hasn't given birth to any child before. So u can't just assume there was a little pain before.

If you would speak this way devoid of your usual vitriol then I would have this conversation with you.

Let me post the King James version as you said

Genesis 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

It says I WILL MULTIPLY THY SORROW.

What is meant to be multiplied in that passage? THY SORROW!

This means that there was sorrow already there in small measure but you and I know that there is no sorrow during labour so sorrow there means the PAIN during childbirth.

Going further to say IN SORROW SHALL THOU BRING FORTH CHILDREN was said after the multiplication of an already existing sorrow/pain

That scripture was not refering to lenght of time alone but also at intensity. The longer the labour, the longer the pain/sorrow.

So even what you thought was wrong is actually right.

Lenght of duration of labour is right
Length and intensity of pain is right.

What we know is that there is pain so be it a lengthy labour or a short one, an already existing pain/ sorrow has been multiplied.

Eve did not have to give birth before to know there would be pain. The one who made her (God) just let her in on something she shouldn't have known at that time. He created her and designed her for fruitfulness and multiplication (conception and delivery) so he also knew pain in some degree would be involved.

JudgementHammer:

Lol so to you culture superceedes creation. Who made culture? Now who created those who made culture?

Picking food on d floor is inspired by poverty and not a physiological response.

You don't have point bro. Your argument is still half-baked.

the level of your stipidity is very rare