ALCOHOLKILLS:
cc Quotesystem

horsepower101:


With the current system in place, YES!!! WE WOULD

For those in the so called south that hate Nnamdi Kanu, remember that he predicted that this would happen.

0monnak0da:


Can we discuss this rationally without bringing Nnamdi Kanu into it.

Explain to me how with the current system workers in Lagos would pay tax to pay salaries in Kano

horsepower101:


With the current system where oil revenue is going down every year and that affects the states monthly allocation and federal budget..

In turn, the federal government will increase taxes on goods and services (and potentially income too) in order to make up the deficits.

Businesses will also increase the prices of their goods and services to prevent losses. Majority of those taxes will come from the so called southern states because that's where Nigerian economy truly lies especially lagos.

Then federal government will use those tax money to allocate to the north.

Being that the north has more population on paper, they will get most of the tax money.

ibotic:


Sharrapppp there.....Kanu was a thug who deserved the treatment he got and worse.....the ewu had no respect for no one......Ojukwu is different because in my opinion, he was pushed by the savages in the north caused by the other ignorant misguided murdering thug called Nzeogwu. Ojukwu’s Downfall was his arrogance.

0monnak0da:
Just imagine there is no oil
Would we tax the people of Lagos to pay salaries in Kano?

0monnak0da:

at any rate most of the Goods produced in Nigeria are food which are produced in the North

ibotic:
Until the south decides to grab the bull by its horns, we will continue to serve the interest of power grabbing mongers whose only hold on power is through violence.

0monnak0da:
Income tax does not accrue to the FG. I was talking about income tax. There are already taxes on goods and services. There is a limiit to which they can be increased.
at any rate most of the Goods produced in Nigeria are food which are produced in the North

omohayek:

This is simply false. Most of the value in Nigeria's industries and services is produced in the south, and most of that in the south-west, which alone is responsible for 2/3 of all of Nigeria's non-oil GDP. Having hordes of uneducated subsistence farmers doesn't produce great wealth for anyone, otherwise northern Nigeria would be wealthier than places like Singapore and Hong Kong.

Look across the world at productivity within countries and you'll see the same pattern, even in the USA: the densely-populated, highly-urbanized places are where most of the domestic value is created, not in the parts with lots of farmland even when the farms are the high-productivity American kind.

omohayek:

This is simply false. Most of the value in Nigeria's industries and services is produced in the south, and most of that in the south-west, which alone is responsible for 2/3 of all of Nigeria's non-oil GDP. Having hordes of uneducated subsistence farmers doesn't produce great wealth for anyone, otherwise northern Nigeria would be wealthier than places like Singapore and Hong Kong.

Look across the world at productivity within countries and you'll see the same pattern, even in the USA: the densely-populated, highly-urbanized places are where most of the domestic value is created, not in the parts with lots of farmland even when the farms are the high-productivity American kind.

horsepower101:


1) Nigerians pay the lowest tax possibly in the world. If not for oil money, Nigerian government would have been bankrupt.

2) Taxes are definitely going up in the future both federal and state once oil allocation/revenue dwindles.

3) Those taxes on goods and services that are being taxes today are low and will go up. In fact, more things are going to be taxed.

4) The states and cities that generates major economic activity will generate more taxes for the federal government.

As for the bolded, it is a myth. I will give you another chance to think it through.

0monnak0da:


Well Our National statistics agency indicates agriculture is the core of our GDP . Yes currentl uch of the VAT does not come from there but are we conflating value addition with GDP?

omohayek:

This is simply false. Most of the value in Nigeria's industries and services is produced in the south, and most of that in the south-west, which alone is responsible for 2/3 of all of Nigeria's non-oil GDP. Having hordes of uneducated subsistence farmers doesn't produce great wealth for anyone, otherwise northern Nigeria would be wealthier than places like Singapore and Hong Kong.

Look across the world at productivity within countries and you'll see the same pattern, even in the USA: the densely-populated, highly-urbanized places are where most of the domestic value is created, not in the parts with lots of farmland even when the farms are the high-productivity American kind.

0monnak0da:


You make a lot of sweeping assertions with no data

What is the currrent rate of VAT in Nigeria and how does it compare with Egypt Kenya or South Africa
Wha is the current rate of Company tax and again how does it compare internatinally to make it one of the lowest as you claim
If State Taxes go up how does that amount to a wealth transfer from South to North

There ay be such a transfer if company taxes go up but again by what factoor. I was hoing to get quantitative information not just conviction driven assertions. My intention is to be fair to the north in this discussion.

Kano and Kaduna generate significant economic activity?No? What about Benue and Plateau?

horsepower101:


Majority of LOCAL food produce consumed in Nigeria is PRODUCED LOCALLY. Go to any market, in any place in Nigeria except for Lagos, you will see that most of the local food items is produced locally

Have you ever asked yourself this question; How can the north be feeding Nigeria with food but yet starving?

horsepower101:


Adeosun: Nigeria’s Tax to GDP Ratio among Lowest in the World

"The Minister of Finance, Mrs. Kemi Adeosun, has lamented that with a tax to Gross Domestic Product (GDP) ratio of six per cent, the country is rated one of the lowest in the world."

https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2017/04/23/adeosun-nigerias-tax-to-gdp-ratio-among-lowest-in-the-world/

0monnak0da:

Evidence?
To the best of my knowledge most of the Tomatoes peppers onions, yam and corn are from the North . Ask any one operating a feed mill for animal feed where they get their inputs from.
Yes Cassava and vegetables like Ugu are more in the south but most state capitals have markets where trucks bring in food daily from the North? No?

People are starving in Nigeria yet we export yarm,cashews and cassava even rice so that proves nothing

horsepower101:


Adeosun: Nigeria’s Tax to GDP Ratio among Lowest in the World

"The Minister of Finance, Mrs. Kemi Adeosun, has lamented that with a tax to Gross Domestic Product (GDP) ratio of six per cent, the country is rated one of the lowest in the world."

https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2017/04/23/adeosun-nigerias-tax-to-gdp-ratio-among-lowest-in-the-world/

horsepower101:


Do you know that YAM in the east for example is a staple. In fact we have new yam festival celebrations both in the south east and south south. This was the tradition before the British came and even before we know that the north existed...lol

Last I checked, tomatoes, onions and pepper is not food. they are just ingredients. If I gave you tomatoes, onions and pepper only to eat, will you survive?

Edit; All the corn I have eaten my whole life is from the east. We have roasted corn and ube..very delicious. We don't get it from the north.

0monnak0da:

I think you are confusing yourself and conflating issues
Tax to GDP ratio s a crude measure if you do nott study the configuration of the GDP

If two countries with a population of 100 and 10000 respectively both have a GDP of 1million the individual productivity per caita is not the same and the capacity to pay tax is not te same

The other issue is the efficiency of production.
One country may have a lot of mechanization and technology and the other does not and so the greater productivity may exist at the firm level rather than individual level.

In the UK e,g You do not begin to pay tax until your income crosses a certain threshold This is well over $20000 .If such a regime operated in a low productivity country No one would fall in the tax net. Does this mean they pay less tax?

So I think you do not understand the nuances of the statistic you are citing.

he issue is this; in Nigeria for those wwho pay tax what is the rate? not tax to GDP ratio which is totally irrelevant to the point being made

horsepower101:


The bottom-line (before we lose track) is that whatever taxes that is generated by the federal government, the majority will go to the north with the current system in place. Simple.

Do you Agree or Disagree?

0monnak0da:

What is the meaning of that? I don;t know anything about your mother and will not comment on her unless you give me cause just like you know nothing about me so confine yousrelf to the topic if you have anything to contribute otherwise get lost

0monnak0da:
Just imagine there is no oil
Would we tax the people of Lagos to pay salaries in Kano?

trillville:
Topics such as this one helped Buhari get elected. Nigerians need to stop thinking about natural resources and start thinking about increasing productivity.

The average Kano man is a farmer. Farming in Kano is a societal hobby. The issue is that most of this farm produce are not processed into higher yielding goods due to policy failures by the government.

How can any reasonable person call a hard worker a parasite because there is no oil on his land.

This topic is highly foolish. I believe only a southerner can defeat Buhari. Topics such these will only turn the north central and South west against the south east and South south.

trillville:


Please, what percent of the federal government's revenue is gotten from sources other than petroleum?

Even in Lagos, what percent of the start government's budget is funded from internally generated revenue.

0monnak0da:


What is the source of thiss 2/3 figure let us be objective here. Do you disagree with our official statistics which places agriculture as a hgher proportion of GDP than oil indeed as the highest proportion I believe?

omohayek:

Whether oil as a bigger or smaller proportion of GDP than agriculture is not the right question to be asking, as oil itself is only 12% of Nigeria's GDP, so even if agriculture were as much as 50% bigger, that would still leave 70% of Nigeria's GDP unaccounted for. The uncomfortable, unavoidable fact is that most of Nigeria's GDP comes from the south, whether in the form of oil from the Niger-Delta, or industrial production and services concentrated in the SW.

Northern Nigeria's vast numbers of subsistence farmers may just about manage to (barely) feed themselves when times are good, but per head they produce far less than people in the south, and no massaging of numbers can change this reality. A single educated accountant, engineer or lawyer working in a southern city might contribute as much as 100x what a northern peasant farmer would to the nation's GDP, a disparity that is only partly disguised by the sheer number of indigent, fast-multiplying northerners there are.

Oh, and since you ask for sources, here are a few for you to browse at your leisure:

https://www.pwc.ie/media-centre/assets/publications/2016-nigeria-looking-beyond-oil.pdf
http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/349511494584937819/pdf/114996-WP-P163291-PUBLIC-NEUNoFinalfromPublisher.pdf

Look at page 11 of the World Bank paper and you'll see that in 2016 industry and services combined contributed 75.6% of the nation's GDP, while agriculture accounted for only 24.4%. The notion that the north's vast number of subsistence farmers are "feeding" anyone other than themselves and their immediate neighbors is nothing more than a self-consoling myth northerners use to protect their self-esteem.

0monnak0da:


Whether oil is a bigger or smaller proportion is definitel a good question to ask in the context of the convesation up to that point .Yes it is not the only question but certainly an important one to me .You may have questions that are important to you but as long as we are having a conversation and not a lecture then I reserve the right to decide whch questions to ask. Cetainly without being in my head you cannot know why I ask what I ask . Oil is indeed at the center of this discussion because that is the sector fro which the government most efficiently extracts rent to finance all three tiers of our governent so if we are to talk of parasitism then it must center on oil,at least up until now.

The issue of GDP is interesting but to what extent does the government extract revenues fro services in comparison to oill?

You claimed that 2/3 of non oil GDP is from SW Nigeria and I asked for a source you have sidestepped the question

I said that most of the non oill Goods produced in Nigeria are food and you said this is false and that is how we arrived there.

If food /agricultural produce do not constitute the largest single component of Goods (I mean goods and NOT services) then what does?
Admittedly of course, that would lead to debates about how much of that is from the Norrth or South that is a different matter

omohayek:

I don't know what the point of all the ranting above is, when we're talking about a simple matter of logic. You suggested that agriculture being larger than oil was evidence against my claim that most of Nigeria's GDP is produced in the south, and I explained why it wasn't - because oil is far less important than industry and services. All the rest is just your own thin-skinned nature showing.


You can easily find the relevant numbers yourself by consulting the Nigerian government's website.


I actually took the time to look up at least a few sources for you, and this is the thanks I get, as if my time were worth nothing. Where are your sources to refute my claims?


What ridiculous sophistry! What "goods" does Hong Kong produce? What "goods" does the City of London produce? What "goods" does Apple itself produce, as opposed to ordering things from Foxconn and other suppliers? What "goods" does Facebook produce? This is the sort of flim-flam pedantry that robs a person of credibility: you don't get to exclude services from the equation because the stats make the north look (justifiably) terrible. Things don't need to come in fancy boxes on ships to have real value.

ibotic:


Sharrapppp there.....Kanu was a thug who deserved the treatment he got and worse.....the ewu had no respect for no one......Ojukwu is different because in my opinion, he was pushed by the savages in the north caused by the other ignorant misguided murdering thug called Nzeogwu. Ojukwu’s Downfall was his arrogance.