Like someone said

It depends on individuals

both

As a gospel artiste in d process of becoming a legend,i wud like to state my own position:

1) comparing gospel with secular music is like matching a boutique or cinema owned by a true christian with one owned by an unbeliever and wondering why d xtian is not doing as well as the other! Duh! Isnt it obvious that unsaved people who far outnumber the saved wud patronize the unbeliever who sells what they want? Puhleeze! We are in d world but not of it.Dnt expect d world to jump each time a gospel album drops.God only intervenes in some cases to manifest his power by making them buy our CDs inspite of themselves.But God wud only do that 4 a gospel artiste who keeps his or her integrity and purity of worship.Period!

2) God created all forms of music.HE is music itself.What holds the rhythm of a song together? Can it exist without God? Can the devil himself exist without God existing? NO! The devil only twists and perverts.He never created anything and never will.Angels cannot create anything and the devil is lower than an angel: he's a fallen angel.When God made man,he made them in his likeness and delegated his creative powers to them.Men only allow Satan persuade them to use that power in creating evil things.There4 no music form is devil-originated but there are perversions of music by men whf let d devil tell them what to do with the musical talent God gave to them.

3) when it comes to listening to Secular music,i choose 2 be guided by Phil. 4:8. If the song violates any of the qualities listed in the verse no matter how sweet the song or banging the beat is. Some songs sound positive but promote anti-christian beliefs e.g songs by Bob marley,a rastafarian, who believes Haile Selassie I is God and Christ incarnate). The watchword is 'guarding ur heart with all diligence'. As a gospel rap artiste,i study rap albumz like textbooks to update my rap style and vocabulary but there are some rap Cds i wont dream of buying e.g Eminem,Filthy Cent,Three6mafia and so on.Remember,the watchword is caution.Your mind is vulnerable to lyricz packaged in music u find most appealing.Be careful!

by-topic: if you have to quote someone, cant you just quote that part you need, not having to quote the whole message. some of us use dial-up and it is slow.

thank you.

ok, back to the topic, next poster

filthycents?

LMAO!!!

despite the fact they still call secular musicians everyday, and gospel art 3 times a week doesn't mean secular is the ultimate, what do you say about life like segun obe and sammie almost everyday man they are been called upon to sing, i will be the first independent record label and studio company that will only sign and record only gospel songs. watch out for gospelgistrecords first of it's kind one of the idea about that company now let me tell u one, where ever we have a concert and we have both parties secular and gospel art to come and perform in a show like that, don't be surprise where they offer d'banj 2million, a gospel art will be offer 5million to minister to soul ! take my word, just watch and see, our standard will be superb, then you see life like d'banj running back to sing gospel. lol the dude actually left Winner's Chapel he was in the choir and later he ran !

i agree with those that said it depends on the individual, i've 6Gb of gospel music on ma system.,

i have close to 10gb of music, gospel roughly 40%. but their play count is the lowest

some of my music e.g sauce kid, 9ice, olu and other have play counts of > 20

contemporary gospel > 8 (approx)

traditional gospel = 0

Suddenly this topic is banging!

Finally, people are actually seeing that its not the style and rhythm that determine the spirituality of a song. Style is just style. I know an older friend who believed strongly that christian music should soft just like Jim Reeves' "this world is not my own". Most of His collections contain Don Williams and Dan seals.

I agree with the disertation of Rapsody. And the sooner christians understand what christian music is all about the sooner we will have a complete experience in that area.

Reminds me of another topic on nairaland about Fuji Music in church. Backslider where u dey?

There's no point arguing here because if u're not Born Again, you can't understand what a spirit filled gospel song is. It's beyond our human reasoning. I've been in love with the secular music before now and am madly in love with the gospel music now because a Regeneration process has been done in my life. I tell u my people they can't be compared but u wont understand until u're Born Again.

Word

To me i love anything that sounds good to the ear, whether its secular, gospel or the likes.
I know that many so called christians listen to secular music.

Its just an individual thing, i dont think that those who listen to secular music will definitely go to hell.

secular music guys seem to always set the pace for the gospel guys. gospel singers are simply trying to catch up.

i tink morally gospel music goes a long way in enriching the minds of the people that listen 2 it but in the world of today secular music seems to be more accepted and publicised

4 nene iyan
dats d point its d music of this world its meant to appeal to people of this world. i prefer xtian music period.u really dont know till u experience it,dnt just listen to it

This is really a nice topic.

I really mjuust say that there is need to Localise this topic, If you want to look at the Nigerian musical scene, then the Gospel artiste are not faring well due to the following reasons,

Faith----I must confess to you that most gospel musicians in Nigeria do not really have personal conviction even in the faith they so proffess in thier music! Most times, one can hardly pick out one salient point in the songs. They hardly move you into the spirit. Little wonder, so little of the songs stand the test of time! Therefore, if the reason for listening to [the gospel songs is for the elevation and edification of the spirit, which i think is the ultimate, then, i am sorry to say most Nigerian gospel songs are really not there yet.

Really, it is surprising to note that inspite of the "supposed" decadence in the American society, these people sing spiritual songs and you hear it nd really get some "spiritual tug" in your spirit. Dont misunderstand me, we have few Nigerian gospel artistes who also try, but the number is so few and far between, but those ones are probably the olden days singers or the not too popular ones!

Commercialisation is also another bane of the gospel artiste in Nigeria. Even when they start out well, in thier bid to sell plenty of copies, they tend to water the message down immensely. Do you know i discovered that most times, modern day gospel artiste try to find a way round the name of Jesus, so as to make it appealing to all and sundry! The reason is simple, Infinity (arguably the biggest gospel group in the country) did a kind of song like that and are today very big! Olori Oko, the hit song with a beautiful video, takes you to task even as a believer before you get the message! Now, that is not to say the song doesn't have a message though, but it is so veiled. I am not surprisesd that nightclubs do not have any qualms identifying with the song.

Vanguard Newspaper recently reported hoe Bishop Abioye of Living Faith (WINNERS) Abuja church ordered some dance group off the church podium.The dance steps to some gospel music was simply too terrible. That explains how come the gospel music and Dance scene has degenerated. It was also rumored that "one time big" gospel group 6 team was ordered ooff the altar of some church for acts unbecoming. All this points to the shallow spiritual part of the artistes!

marketers who in most cases are sharks too simply tell gospel artistes to either spice up thier songs anyhow to make it marketable or simply ship out.Some artiste even start out as gospel artistes and later convinced by marketers that their voices can do it for them simply turn secular e.g Essence of the Kennis Music!

There is simply no mentoring in the Nigerian Gospel scene, Most aspiring choiristers and vocalists have practically no nigerian gospel artiste to look up to! Let's mention them, Sammie Okposo Samsung? Essence? Lanre Teriba Jeremiah Gyang

Then the edverse effect of the American way of life simply kills thier morale, Afterall, you can do more than the owner of a thing,

One can only hope for better days or else, it is either one make do with Mary Mary, Fred Hammond et al or simply write on's own song (Femi Kuti would not be an option)

I'm not sure about going to hell for "it" per se, but why put yourself in a position to think carnal thoughts b/c of the music? The thoughts is what's going to take you to Hell. Weather carnal or violent, if you think on it enough you'll act on it. From a future criminal psychologist point of view.

I have a question, why is it that listening to secular music is considered a sin by some in Christendom, whereas watching Television is not condemned? Can anybody tell me why?

It depends on the type of TV show and type of secular music.
We have to be careful.

Anyne who has qualms about gosppel has never heard Njideka Okeke.
Can the girl sing or what?

It depends on the type of TV show and type of secular music.
We have to be careful.

Anyone who has qualms about gospel has never heard Njideka Okeke.
Can the girl sing or what?

Music is about concepts,it is more like food,diffrent choices based on availability and ones understanding of food basically influence by the state of mind-brain. Christians listen to gospel music because it expresses their faith and beliefs,it is more like listening to a pastor preach,while on the other hand people love secular music because it reflects their social and spiritual orientation that keeps them whole and happy based on the individual placement,understanding and view of the world in general.Music which ever way is spiritual,you got to feel it,tune in to understand and enjoy it, just like every other thing in the world,knowledge,it is an institution,it educates,inspire and elevates.Music is life.

hi everyone, i've got interest on music but of little knowledge about music
However, i strongly believe that be it secular or gospel, music are messages OR means of communication from one Physically/Spiritual/Emotional position to another that can come in so many different ways

Hey i am a lover of Gospel songs and so other songs (maybe secular) but one thing i take is the message and purpose for which it was sang.

Look when it comes to christianity, there are times we will want to praise God and we are moved in the spirit of Praise and to some other time we will want to Worship, and this two pattern still is filled from inspiration and so do God here us too. So also, the secular, songs of freedom, love and wisdom, life , stories and etc, its message and yes message that is it,


As for me any song with or without beating that makes sense to me in one way or the other is ok.

But my Favourite is ACAPELLA, Why!! because its natural, your natural voice flows, how splendid, well lets say this because i will like anything that is natural.

well thats mine [b][/b]

American idol vs sunday gospel(american idol, gospell version)

@ tayo d

nowadays people dont buy secular music they download hence the redunction in sales

The Power of Music



By Eric Holmberg

Rock 'n' Roll! Powered by space-age technology and popularized by the largest, wealthiest and most leisure generation of young people in history, rock music has changed the modern world in ways more profound than perhaps any other social phenomenon. Evidence of its impact are many and varied.

Rock has become a multi-billion dollar industry, one recently described by the National Review as "the most prosperous industry in the world."1 Its superstars have annual incomes that easily eclipse those of all but a handful of the most successful industrialists and businessmen.

And the music is virtually everywhere - from packed sports arenas to commercials that peddle everything from tennis shoes to alcohol - from the sound tracks of movies and television series to the pulsing rhythms that reverberate in our health spas. Everything today seems to march to its rhythm.

Perhaps the only thing more notable than rock's pervasiveness is the manner in which it helps shape the hearts and minds of the world's youth. As Dr. David Elkind noted in his book The Hurried Child, one of the most underestimated influences on young people today is the music industry.2

Citing again the National Review: "Rock's sheer pervasiveness makes it the most profound value shaper in existence today. Unless you are deaf it is virtually guaranteed that rock music has affected your view of the world."3

From the manner in which young people dress to the way they view and understand the key issues of life, little escapes the pale cast by rock's big sound.

And it's no wonder. Young people wake up to it, drive to it, play to it, study to it, and go to sleep to it. Studies show that between the 7th and 12th grades, the average teenager will listen to and watch 11,000 hours of rock music and rock videos - more than twice the time they will spend in class.4

As Dr. Alan Bloom noted in his best-selling book The Closing of the American Mind, "Nothing is more singular about this generation than its addiction to music."5

Incredibly, despite this unprecedented power and the mounting evidence that rock's influence can be less than positive, most people have never stopped to consider what is really going on in and through contemporary music. Why is music so powerful? How does it affect us? What is its source? And to where is it leading us?

Throughout the ages, wise men have noted music's profound impact on its listeners. For example, over 2,000 years before the birth of Christ, the musical systems of China were both highly developed and central to its society. It was to this that the philosophers directed much of their attention. Understanding its intrinsic power, they carefully checked their music to make sure that it conveyed eternal truths and could thus influence man's character for the better.6

To this end, tradition states that one emperor, by the name of Shun, would monitor the health of each of the provinces of this vast kingdom by simply examining the music they produced. Course and sensual sounds indicated a sick society, one in need of his intervention and assistance.7

Two thousand years later the Greek philosopher, Plato, echoed the sentiments of Emperor Shun when he said, "When modes of music change the fundamental laws of the state change with them."8

In his famous work Laws, Plato could have been writing about our modern age when he stated: "Through foolishness they, the people, deceived themselves into thinking that there was no right or wrong in music - that it was to be judged good or bad by the pleasure it gave, As it was, the criterion was not music but a reputation for promiscuous cleverness and a spirit of law-breaking."9

Plato's contemporary, Aristotle, noting that music has "the power to form character,"10 wanted to see it actually regulated by the state - an approach, by the way, of which I am not in favor.

Moving up to the present century, Vladimir Lenin, the co-founder of communism and one of history's greatest experts on subversion and revolution said, "One quick way to destroy a society is through its music."11

Changing laws, forming character, and toppling societies - most of us are not used to talking about music in such expansive terms. To understand this magnitude of impact we must consider both the nature of music and man; and how music affects us in body, soul, and spirit.

Given the materialistic philosophy that marks this present age, it's surprising that more attention has not been given to the many profound ways sound and different musical forms can affect the physical world. For example, research has found that shrill sounds of sufficient volume can congeal proteins in a liquid media. So a soft egg placed in front of a speaker at some of the louder rock concerts - can midway through the concert become a hard-boiled snack for the weary head-banger.12

Moving from proteins to animate objects, repeated experiments have shown that plants respond positively to classical forms of music, actually growing and flowering faster than if there was no music at all. Conversely, more dissident forms of music, like heavy metal, can actually retard growth and even kill the plant.13

Of course, humans are much more complex than plants, but it still makes one wonder what this type of music might be doing to us. As Dr. Adam Knieste, a musicologist who studies the effects of music upon people noted: "It's really a powerful drug. Music can poison you, lift your spirits, or make you sick without knowing why."14

As mathematics is the universal language of the mind, music is the language of the heart, what the great composer Robert Schumann called "the perfect expression of the soul." Biblically, when we talk about the soul, we are speaking of the human personality and its three component parts - the mind, the will and the emotions. And it's here where we begin to see music's real power take hold.

In the realm of the mind, there is mounting evidence that certain kinds of rock have a negative effect on one's ability to think and learn. Studies at two separate universities, for example, have found that rats have a much more difficult time learning to pass through a maze if they are subjected to hard-rock music.15

On the emotional level, few would deny music's power. Its ability to influence and enhance moods is, in fact, one of music's greatest attractions. What most people are not aware of, however, is both the extent of this influence and the ease with which they can be unconsciously manipulated. As Eddie Manson, Oscar-winning composer and one-time president of the American Society of Music Arrangers has said, "We manipulate people like crazy , Every film composer mixes his experiences with a talent for musical manipulation, and then projects that Machiavellian power gut to gut."16

Moving from the gut to the brain, music is also a powerful "encoder," a term in psychology for something that helps determine the way we perceive and think about the world. In other words, music has an inside track to the subconscious levels of our minds.17 This truth is even physically suggested by the fact that the auditory nerves are the most predominant of all the human senses.18

Research done at Stanford University confirms not only this predominance at a physical and subconscious level, but also in an area that is perhaps the most uniquely human of all; that is in the area of transcendent experiences - what the researchers term "thrills." They found that the most powerful stimulus for evoking thrill-like sensations in their subjects was music.19

Musicologist David Tame anticipates Stanford's discovery when he wrote: "Music is the language of languages. It can be said that of all the arts, there is none that more powerfully moves and changes the consciousness."20

Changing one's consciousness is what David Crosby meant when he told Rolling Stone that through just his music he could alter his audience's value systems and, in effect, steal them away from their parents.21

And Crosby is not alone. Perhaps rock's greatest genius, Jimi Hendrix, told Life magazine in 1969, "I can explain everything better though music. You hypnotize people to where they go right back to their natural state, and when you get people at their weakest point, you can preach into their subconscious what we want to say."22

In recognition of this transcendent power Eddie Manson went on to share a sober warning, "Music is used everywhere to condition the human mind. It can be just as powerful as a drug and much more dangerous, because nobody takes musical manipulation very seriously."23

As we just saw in the quote by Jimi Hendrix, music is a spiritual thing. And it is in this realm of the spirit where we will focus most of our attention because it is here where music reaches its greatest heights of power and influence.

Even the very word "music" suggests this spiritual dimension. Its root word "muse" were the spirit beings who the ancient Greeks felt were responsible for the inspiration of all art.

Today, it's not just the Greeks who feel that artists are inspired by spiritual forces. Folk jazz artist Joni Mitchell, in an interview with Time magazine, was described as follows: "Joni Mitchell's own strongest creative impulses come to her in a somewhat unusual way. She deeply believes in a male muse named Art who lends her his key to what she airily calls the 'Shrine of Creativity.'"24

Avant-garde musician Peter Rowan echoes this description when in an interview with the Washington Times he said, "I do believe that music itself is a spiritual force. The inspiration I feel is like a holy thing. It's beyond any words I can use to describe it."25

This perception takes on an more even more startling dimension when described by guitarist John McGlaughlin, "One night we were playing and suddenly the spirit entered into me and I was playing but it was no longer me playing."26

We see this perception mirrored in these words by AC/DC guitarist, Angus Young, "Someone else is steering me. I'm just along for the ride. I become possessed when I'm on stage."27

To fully comprehend both the nature and magnitude of the spiritual interrelationship between man and music, we must first understand something of the basic realities that attend the spiritual world.

1. The real reality is a spiritual one. One of the scripture's primary messages is that the time/space world we live in is a created one, having its origins in an eternal, spiritual realm that exists outside the scope of our physical senses. In John's gospel, Jesus tells us that God is Spirit (John 4:24a) - and it is this inexpressibly wise, loving and all powerful Spirit Who is the creator of all things. His is the transcendent reality.

2. Man is a spiritual being. Though, as we have noted, we live in a body and have a soul, we are first and foremost spiritual beings. Genesis 1:27 gives the account of the origins of man, "So God created man in His own likeness." In other words, Spirit begat spirit. From the breath of God that gave us life - to His image indelibly impressed upon our hearts, you and I are spirits. And as spirits, we are profoundly affected by the principles and the personalities that make up the spiritual world, whether we are aware of them or not.

3. As God's offspring, the primary purpose for our existence is to know and experience God. In John 17:3 Jesus said, "This is eternal life - to know God and the Savior Whom He has sent." Continuing with the passage of scripture we read earlier - "The Father is looking for those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24b). The worship spoken of here is not some dry, religious exercise, but the natural response to knowing and experiencing God. And biblically and scientifically, there is no more profound way to be drawn into and then express this experience than through music. As perhaps the greatest musician in history, Johann Sebastian Bach said, "The end of all music should be the glory of God and the refreshment of the human spirit."

4. Through sin man fell and was separated from God. Throughout the scriptures the words of God in Ezekiel are echoed again and again, "The soul who sins will die" (Ezekiel 18:4).

The death spoken of here manifests itself in several ways, but most significantly in a spiritual sense as through our sin we are separated from the God of all life. Left stranded, subjected to the tyranny of our selfishness and lust, we are no longer citizens of God's kingdom but instead walk "according to the way of this fallen world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who works in all who are disobedient" (Ephesians 2:2). Into this hopeless situation, God sent a Savior, His own Son, to pay the penalty for our sins, to destroy the power of this "prince of the air" and to bring man back into His kingdom (John 3:16; John 10:10; Heb. 2:14).

5. The kingdom of darkness is real and is the spiritual source of all opposition to God. The lord of this diabolical kingdom is the "prince of the air," more commonly known as Satan, or the devil. With a hoard of wicked spirits at his command, he is called the "god of this fallen worl" (2 Cor. 4:4).

As this world's ruler, his task is essentially two-fold. First, to stimulate the variety of lusts resident within the human heart, thereby degrading people as well as bringing them into greater bondage and control - "For by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved" (2 Peter 2:19). Second, to oppose all of God's efforts to redeem man and thus steal away Satan's subjects. The battlefield here is primarily the human mind. Using a variety of techniques, Satan's strategy is to fill us with lies, to convince us that black is white and evil good, to justify sin and blind us to our need for a savior, to distort our image of God and erase or trivialize our image of Satan, convincing us that he either doesn't exist or that he's a cartoon imp in red pajamas. Put simply: "To blind the minds of the unbelieving so that they cannot see the light of Christ who is the image of God" (2 Cor. 4:4).

Given its power over the heart of man, music is among the most potent of these techniques. And it's worth noting that both the scriptures and church tradition suggest that music comes quite naturally to Satan, that very possibly, before his fall, he was in charge of music in heaven.28

Of course, any style of music can be perverted by evil. Many of the elements this presentation examines are found in other musical forms as well. The reason for our focus on rock is both its unparalleled popularity and the manner in which it has given place to evil. Suddenly at first and then with increasing blatancy as rock's celebrants have been brought under its rhythmic sway, it has become one of the most potent weapons in Satan's arsenal of deception.

Fortunately, Satan's proven tendency for over-achieving has resulted in a blatancy that, when examined by an objective inquirer, can be used to expose the devil's presence and purposes - hence this presentation. And one last point before we begin to dust rock music for Satan's fingerprints - 2 Corinthians tells us that "the devil can disguise himself as an angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14) - that he can, in other words, appear as something beautiful, even Christ-like. Don't be fooled! Satan doesn't just manifest his power through a Hitler or a Manson. He can use your favorite guitarist, a pretty pop singer, maybe even you. Anyone who resists the will of God is fertile soil for his seeds of deception.

1 National Review, February 24, 1989, p.28.
2 The Hurried Child (Addison Wesley Publishing Company, 1988) pp.89 -93.
3 National Review, February 24, 1989, p.28.
4 American Academy of Pediatrics.
5 Dr. Alan Bloom, The Closing of the American Mind (Simon and Schuster, 1987) p.68.
6 David Tame, The Secret Power of Music (Destiny Books, 1984) p.34.
7 Ibid, pp.13,14.
8 Plato, The Republic, Book 3.
9 Tame, p.189.
10 Tame, p.19.
11 The Marxist Minstrels: A Handbook on Communist Subversion of Music, American Christian College Press, 1974.
12 Bob Larson, The Day Music Died (Bob Larson Ministries) 1973.
13 Tame, p.143.
14 David Chagall, Family Weekly Magazine, January 30, 1983, p.12.
15 Insight, April 27, 1987, p.57.
16 Chagall, p.15.
17 Tame, pp.148-150.
18 Ibid, p.136.
19 Avram Goldstein, Physiological Psychology, 1980, Vol 8 (1), 126-129.
20 Tame, p.151.
21 Arthur Barker, The Rolling Stone Interviews, 1981.
22 Life, October 3, 1969, p.4.
23 Chagall, p.15.
24 Time, December 16, 1974, p.39.
25 Washington Times, March 7, 1986.
26 Circus, April, 1972, p.38.
27 Hit Parader, 1985.
28 This is based upon the popular exegesis of Isaiah 14 (esp. vs. 11) and Ezekiel 28 (esp. vs. 13 in KJV) that views the "King of Babylon" and the "Ruler of Tyre" as types of Satan before and after his fall from heaven.

May i note here that what satan earnestly desired was to be worshipped and for that single reasons he wanted to unseat God, God who is the ALL WISE God caught his thought and was thrown down, believe me that he is still interesting in that seat, he knows people love music, the only way he's going to be worship is through lyrics of music and beat all in the name of Jesus.

If in the bible the old time believers worshipped God with spiritual lyrics and spiritual songs, why can't we then copy them than copying the worldly lyrics and beatings that are meant for the devil, why transfering such into christain songs, please note that God do not take all types of songs and beat.

My believe is that, though there are so many 'Rock and Roll' music in the market, there are still so many gospel music that are highly spititual and people patronize it as well.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm it's all deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep !

To me gospel music is far better and edifying than secular musics.I rarely listen to songs that doesn't edify my soul.The so called secular musics dosen't increase you <spiritually> or bless you then why listen to songs that do not bless you.
Most secular musics just come and go but for gospel musics-they dont fade,I mean they keep blessing you no matter what time you listen to them.
I do not say its a sin to listen to them,but if listening to them becomes a weight accordimg to Heb 12:1,then its a sin.
Thank God for pple like Donnie McClurkin,Kirk franklin,Don Moen,Mavin Sapp,Sammie Okposo,Panom Percy Paul.Listen to these songs and see how they bless you.

Re: Should Fuji Music Be Allowed In Church?
« #75 on: Today at 04:12:53 PM »

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if the world creeps into the church,i think it is a sign of better things to come. we need a church that is open to the world, a church that does not discriminate. the church must be attractive enough to accomodate the world, if that has started, then let the heavens rejoice, salvation is near.

Holy Crap,

Y nt juju music

Fuji music ko Fila music ni

ha ha ha !

the song 'IGWE' by MIDNIGHT CREW is great, beautiful composition, great lyrics. now aviailable on www.cdbaby.com