babylishus:

There is a big difference between grieving a man and grieving the Holy Spirit. Big difference.

And please, as far as I'm concerned we no longer have prophets and men of GOD like the days of Joshua, Elisha, Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah and John the Baptist to name a few. I will venture to say that none of our Pastors come close to those men of old.

By the way, even Ibori used the 'touch not my anointed' Bible verse to defend himself. The devil himself knows the Bible back to front so please, quoting a few verses does not make anyone a man or woman of GOD.'

This is about stolen money given to the church and wether or not the church should return it. Let's get back to the issue at hand, please.

Enigma:

^^^ And RCCG does not feel convicted about receiving stolen money? Is RCCG really following Christ then?

Akobaje:

I agree with you. I think EFCC should investigate how much went to the church and retrieve it. You cant really blame an "innocent" receiver of stolen goods without knowledge of the crime can you?

Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.

omo~fat:

^^^ Since you're so into this particular story, let take abit further.

Christ went to eat in this man's house, no?
Lets imagine that Zacc didn't feel convicted and make the offer to repay, would Christ have had to vomit the food he ate?
Would the folks outside have been justified to come and carry Christ because he "knowingly" ate in a crooked man's house?

I'm not saying the church should be a haven for all kinds of criminals but come on, be fair.

As someone said earlier, are you also going to go after the children's schools and everyone Akingbola ever donated money to?

Come on

anonimi:

The yorubas have a saying:

eni gbe epo l'aja ko jale bi eni to gba lowo e= he who stole oil from the shelve is not as guilty as the one who received it from him.

are you now claiming ignorance=innocence for our supposedly all-knowing GO who has tea etc with his daddy god.

For most Niaja christians [url=http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=Proverbs+14%3A34&ver=kjv]Proverbs 14v34[/url]:

does not exist in their personal bible.

Akobaje:


[size=15pt]Only like minds can accept these situations without crying foul. After reading some reactions to this thread it is clear that some Nigerias are so corrupt that they not only accept corruption, they defend it and glorify it and make it a matter of spiritual significance knowing that once in that realm, the matter will be swept under the carpet as usual[/size].

omo~fat:

Christ went to eat in this man's house, no?
Lets imagine that Zacc didn't feel convicted and make the offer to repay, would Christ have had to vomit the food he ate?

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

debosky:

There is no loop hole here - there is no evidence that Akingbola gave allegedly stolen money to RCCG. No church I know is set up as an investigative body to verify income of it's members. The issue here is that if you have a rule for Akingbola (i.e. verifying his income) why not try to establish whether the market woman who gave her offering cheated her customer at the market? Where does it stop? Leave people to their own consciences or to the legal systems to decide. The church's role is not to determine who is guilty in secular affairs.

Agreed.

Agreed again.

To declare them 'thieves' when the facts of the matter are still in dispute would be presumptive. Is the Church now a legal body to declare people thieves?

The Spirit of God intervened in that situation and delivered instant judgement - that same Spirit is still at work today; why not leave the Spirit to decide?

There is no die hard attempt - seeking to place the burden of proof on the church makes no sense here, since it is neither vested with the power or authority to determine if the allegations are true or not.

Obama wasn't being morally conscious - he was engaged in a popularity battle. Anything that could be deemed detrimental to his goal of being elected was removed. Besides, the fellow involved in financial irregularities was probably convicted no?

To surmise, this thread is talking about 'looted offering' - if we can't even establish in the first instance that it is in fact looted offering (something only the investigating agencies can do) then there is no basis for any return.

PS - The church has not made any 'excuses'. I have simply examined the practicality of 'returning the looted offering'. and given a personal opinion Such a return must be sufficiently identified before it can be carried out.

debosky:

You tell me since you are the Czar of reclaiming corrupt proceeds - how much of Abacha's contributions to Mosques were recovered? How much of Madoff's contributions to charities were recovered?

anonimi:

do you know the Christ whom you claim to serve?
do you read your bible, especially the new testament to know the nature and essence of Christ?
it is obvious your hypothesis should not apply to Christ who is the only son of God but then just shows what goes on in today's christendom as opposed to the standard set by Christ and maintained by the early church. See [url=http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=1+Corinthians+10%3A23&ver=kjv]1Cor.10:23[/url]

10:23

Flakky26:

@ Poster,
           
                        Why not say that our leaders and politicians that have looted our money should also be made to cough it out?

omo~fat:


My point really is simple:
Erastus Akingbola allegedly stole money, go after him.
Rccg may decide to return some money or they may decide not to. It's up to them.

Trying to tie up rccg with akingbola's crime is duplicitous unless you can prove a direct link of them working together. Or perhaps, that rccg (GO) gave akingbola orders to go and steal.

If you cant do that, then you're engaging in guilt by association and that's wrong. Plain wrong.

Pastor AIO:

Why not? Agreed, but go and do it in the politics section. Let's keep the religious section on religious matters.

RCCG is a criminal organization, and this is just the highest profile case. I have personal anecdotes from my personal life. Anyway sha, RCCG is not a christian organization. I repeat, RCCG is not a christian organization.

omo~fat:

I suspected that most of your position was fueled by hatred (probably justified) of RCCG as an organization. However, that is not the point of this thread.

Stay on track

Tudór:

Issue does NOT stop with akingbola, only that he happens to be a high profile case. The church should have nothing to do with thieves and this should trickle right down to the house fellowships. Anyone found to be getting money sinfully should have his money returned as God does not receive stolen offerings.

By doing so with Akingbola, the Church will set an example and send a message to all branches that money given by dishonest people are not welcome to God.oh, you agree the church should work based on the laws of God, why then should the church wait for the legal system?

Sorry this is just plain desperation. The church is NOT a legal body and as such needs no judge,jury and legal process to convict.

The law might not be able to convict him thanks to smart lawyers or bribes but that does not change the eternal truth that he stole. God does not judge based on tge smartness of your lawyers but by your deeds.

Tudór:

Emm, charities can be sued to return donations. . .some of madoffs charities have been and are going to be sued.

uche13:

I wonder y we r always sentimental when the issue of church and pastors are discussed. i know for a fact that pastor adeboye WILL never encourage anyone to steal and give to the church. His messages are filled with holiness and teachings about Heaven. He even discourages any dishonest kind of living. But the question is that the church right from the time of Christ (even among 12 disciples there was still a thief) is filled with mixed multitudes, of genuine believers and those who are merely deceiving themselves. Do u expect a man who has over a million members to be auditing them individually before they bring an offering into church. Should he be asking for members payslips b4 accepting an offering. That is impossible, he can only do his bit by preaching the word of God simply.is it because Akingbola is a notable personality, even if this is done for him and others of his caliber, how can the pastor confirm that even the N20.00 offering given by a conductor is not the change of a passenger that the conductor deliberately made him forget. So what measure will be put to determine the honesty of market women, or messengers in the office who inflate costs or even those in business. Nobody has been able to answer the question of whether unilag shouldnt return the building donated by akingbola or other charitable organisations that he gave to. I ask this question, if your boss gives u a bonus of a million based on the high profit made by the company that year and it is discovered that the profit was made thru fraudulent deeds, will u return the money or the car u bought with the money? We can not encourage the looting of monies but no one can fault the church either unless u can post a message by Pastor Adeboye where he encouraged people to steal and give to church.