kai na joblessness dey kill me oh, I did not expect u to take it seriously but since I have started derailing the thread- one of my bad habits- i might as well finish it  

[3] socrates was sentenced to death for challenging the norms!!!!! i don't know what you mean by his activities were "heavily encouraged" FAR FAR FROM IT.
[1]even darwin was NOT encouraged. his father wanted him to become a doctor or something like that. but instead he took a vacation to study birds.

[2] the reason socrates  was able to devote time to being a philosopher was because he inherited a lot of money from his father!!!! before he striked it rich, he worked as a mason to support his wife and 3 kids.

plz do your research before posting. thanks

1. I did my research- There is no verified primary source which indicates what socrates did to earn income. Like most of Roman historical figures, the life of Socrates is derived from older classical texts. Most people writing about socrates have never met him before. Same problem with the New testament Gospels day but thats a discussion for another. Consequently statement [2] is not even factually true . Socrates father was a stone mason by the way so if you claim that Socrates inherited a lot of money from his father (who was a stone mason) while claiming Socrates supported his family as a stone mason . . .something here is wrong (I hope you see it)

2. When I said his activity was encouraged, I meant his preoccupation with philosophy. Philosophy was considered a noteworthy field to study in Rome.  So yes his work was encouraged and he was respected. Only when he started to criticize the moral ethos of his society as well as getting involved in politics. So yes he got into trouble for challenging the norms, but challenging the norms wasnt what made him famous and well respected.  

3. With respect to Darwin, the same thing applies- his society encouraged scientific thought and rewarded it accordingly. Because your parents disagree with your choices dont mean that you are being hindered. If Darwin published his book in Nigeria no one will buy one copy. Darwin will have to migrate to America like chiamanda adichie to find someone who appreciates his work.

In short I am t alking of social constraints as opposed to individual or exceptional cases like s that of socrate

oyinda.:


Anyways, my recommendation is for the wealthy people in Nigeria to cultivate academic thinking in their children.  These "rich kids" the the ones that are more likely to come up with the ideas that change the world.
Another recommendation is for them (the wealthy people) to become philanthropists for the education system
The purpose of general education system is to diffuse useful/technical/professional knowledge ie one that will enable you to make a living out if it rather than one that encourages you to think outside the box. although the latter is the kind that creates civilization

innovative ideas generally come from research and work that aren't really lucrative (although there are exceptions). that's why rich people are more likely to be the ones who are into it. they don't need the money.

While I don't believe that 'Rich Kids' are the ones more likely to come up with ideas (how can you even think this)
I understand what you mean by Wealthy people putting their foot into this, because to a large extent Wealthy = Power
and they are the ones most likely to stand up to the bullies in our system with success.

Also your take on innovation is twisted. Ideas are just ideas, they only become innovative when they are actually lucrative.
i.e when it is actually useful to society.

Beaf:

I find it so funny that Nigerians make so much noise, but refuse to act when presented with a vehicle.

I've plead with a lot of folk (even on this thread) for some days now, to go register here http://afrosciencecommunity.com

So far, there are quite a few downloadable tech PDF's and we have have the following free inventions to donate to those willing to go a step further;

Yam Harvester (FREE!)
Banana and Plantain Harvester (FREE!)
Energy Forest (FREE!)
Atomic Hydrogen Power Plant (FREE!)
Solar Air Conditioning (FREE!)

Our free inventions catalogue should increase by two by midweek next week. We are not resting on our oars.

. . .So why do we beat the question so much and do little or nothing about it? Thats the question, cos there are lots of capable minds. Why are these minds left to lie fallow? The only answer to me is, there is a widespread problem of low self esteem (one of the reasons we are so overly "religious," instead of logical and methodical).

Don't you know the age we live in?? by the time you have finished inventing this, people have already bought their own from China.
We need to put our thinking caps on and act fast.
Good idea though

Gamine:

While I don't believe that 'Rich Kids' are the ones more likely to come up with ideas (how can you even think this)
I understand what you mean by Wealthy people putting their foot into this, because to a large extent Wealthy = Power
and they are the ones most likely to stand up to the bullies in our system with success.

Also your take on innovation is twisted. Ideas are just ideas, they only become innovative when they are actually lucrative.
i.e when it is actually useful to society.

i agree with you. rich kids are definitely not the ones who are more likely to come up with ideas. anybody of any social class can come up with an idea!!!
the point is that without proper resources, ideas cannot be reproduced. and reproduction of ideas is the essence of development.
ie if a rich kid had an idea of how to build homes in the sky and a poor kid had the same idea. who do you think will be the first to turn his idea into action?
yea it's not fair. but that's how it is unfortunately.

by lucrative i was talking about financial returns for the individual who came up with the idea.
ie. being a banker is lucrative while being a researcher is not as lucrative for the person engaging in it.
although the research might be more useful to society, most people would rather choose to be bankers because they need to feed their family.

oyinda.:


by lucrative i was talking about financial returns for the individual who came up with the idea.
ie. being a banker is lucrative while being a geographer is not lucrative for the person studying it. although both are useful to society.

I see your point now but that's just one meaning of 'Lucrative'

All these just brought to mind a company i tried interviewing once
they are into 'Humanitarian Design' and strongly believe 'Aid' is killing Africa
so they design products which are for-profit but highly beneficial to the community.
in doing so they create economies around this product which becomes lucrative
for the community in which it's used. (Wealth in = Wealth out)

i didn't know there were other definitions for lucrative. i should have been more specific.

hmm i don't think aid is benefiting Africa as well.
what is the name of the company? what things do they design? that is really cool.


@sefago,
you can read about how he was killed here and where he got money to support his profession from.
http://www.2020site.org/socrates/why-was-socrates-sentenced-to-death.html

yea their societies may have supported philosophical thought or scientific thought with respect to darwin (in a non-financial way of course). This is more reason for nigeria to do the same (so maybe we are thinking on the same line). and also for the wealthy to also donate money to fund the disciplines. the rich people are very rich in Nigeria so they should do something for the country. the govt can't do it alone.

Red Button Design.
They are Young and Fresh not Nigerian though.
But it would be nice to do some projects with them.

What can I say? We need a sovereign national conference on education system, change our curriculum. The structures are not there and we don't reward ideas. In the past every once in a while a show like NTA Sunday Newsline does a report on a young person doing great stuff somewhere, once a kid constructed a mini tractor by just viewing a picture , that right there is a genius but what do we do? Nothing.
There is no culture to foster innovation and its takes you and I to create a company that fosters that.

Meanwhile watch Jelani Aliyu, not just the fact that he designs cars but the fact that he attended a polytechnic in Northern Nigeria and had an opportunity that our environment didn't provide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqx-xKGeDCA

Meanwhile let us support Inno motors and other Nnewi bike manufacturers, that is how Toyota started.

In this century, the areas of science that are going to experience breakthroughs are in the area of MATERIALS, NANOTECHNOLOGY AND GREEN TECH. Most countries are investing heavily in this areas because the potential here is enormous. Investing in this fields leads to job creation, just check out this triumph in nanotechnology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36yNz6Zde5M

AjanleKoko:


By the way, OP, wasn't it you and some other chaps some months back singing the high praises of an Ivy League MBA? Now you are back to science? What happened?

lol, I knew this guy (davidif) was a hypocrite,


MBA? Nonsense, those people rarely ever innovate, they merely profit,

PhysicsQED:

lol, I knew this guy (davidif) was a hypocrite,


MBA? Nonsense, those people rarely ever innovate, they merely profit,

You sure?

I was one of the people singing the praises of MBA too. However not because it helps us innovate but its a way for Nigerians to enter top level positions in the United States and participate in the international market abroad. I think davidif tries to make us aware that while Indians and the Chinese are getting access to a significant number of top jobs based on gaining significant skills through attending impressive schools and self-learning, we spend our time doing exactly . . . . nothing. Nigerians are virtually absent in research institutions- the ones who are present did not live in nigeria significantly and most have their PhDs abroad. There are no homegrown innovators- its not about studying at a certain western university but studying at Unilag and crate world class research

Gamine:

If we go by the question of this topic, Nigerians not Nigeria

You are right maybe i should rephrase the question to be about Nigeria and not Nigerians because hardly anyone on this thread understand what i am saying.

andromida:

what really is the benefit of education to Nigerians? good qxn.
I think the basis of this is to analyze how education has been of benefit to Nigeria.arent most of our politicians educated?
There are also lots of naija in the diaspora receiving quality education,how has it impacted on Nigeria?

You are one of the very few people who seem to be able to comprehend the question. Everyone else either seems to be answering a question with a question or resorting to personal attacks. The reason i am asking this question is because in order to education to be productive, you have to look at the tangible contribution to society especially in the terms of job creation but i am not seeing it in Nigeria. What's the point of education if its not productive as in producing Intel, Qualcomm and co. To me right where i stand, i say that our educational system is hardly productive enough. The system (maybe because of the cramming) is not producing critical thinkers that can solve mordern day societal problems but people who just know how to pass exams. How else can you explain a situation where a student is seen as "intelligent" because he was able to write 20 fullscap sheets on his exams, and his fellow students go on praising him saying "omo that guy sabi book, the boy just dey ask for extra paper for exam."

SEFAGO:

You sure?

I was one of the people singing the praises of MBA too. However not because it helps us innovate but its a way for Nigerians to enter top level positions in the United States and participate in the international market abroad. I think davidif tries to make us aware that while Indians and the Chinese are getting access to a significant number of top jobs based on gaining significant skills through attending impressive schools and self-learning, we spend our time doing exactly . . . . nothing. Nigerians are virtually absent in research institutions- the ones who are present did not live in nigeria significantly and most have their PhDs abroad. There are no homegrown innovators- its not about studying at a certain western university but studying at Unilag and crate world class research

Old boy, as an undergraduate, dont just generalize, rather make statements based on empirical observations or at least backed up with facts and figures.
In the first place it shouldn't be forgotten that the Indians are excellent at marketing themselves,  and also are very good at networking in and amongst themselves.
Their getting top jobs is not just based  on their paper qualifications per se.

Secondly institutional world class research is predicated on funding which enables the university or research institute to attact top quality graduate students and researchers from all over the world and  buy the latest equipment. It is this very generous funding which enables institutes like Princeton and Havard to lead the world in scientific research. That is not going to change anytime soon regardless of how much some here may moan about it.

Old boy, as an undergraduate, dont just generalize, rather make statements based on empirical observations or at least backed up with facts and figures. Shocked Embarrassed
In the first place it shouldn't be forgotten that the Indians are excellent at marketing themselves, and also are very good at networking in and amongst themselves.
Their getting top jobs is not just based on their paper qualifications per se

Erm . . . you are just repeating what I said in just a different way. You need qualifications to market yourself. Success of indians/asians in several industries is based on having the skills that are in demand. Networking does play a role I agree- Indians are always informing each other about everything

Secondly institutional world class research is predicated on funding which enables the university or research institute to attact top quality graduate students and researchers from all over the world and buy the latest equipment. It is this very generous funding which enables institutes like Princeton and Havard to lead the world in scientific research. That is not going to change anytime soon regardless of how much some here may moan about it.

This discussion is about the impact of education on developing Nigerians ability to conduct quality research. FYI, A significant amount of research does not happen in the US. Japan, Israel, South Africa, UK, Australia, China all have produced world leading research. The question is why Nigeria cannot produce such high level research or something innovative. I personally believe it has more to do with our environment and lack of funding (which is a byproduct of the environment). I had previously mentioned that research funding is not available to nigerian professors/researchers in nigeria which impedes any type of top-level research. Another problem is that there are even no ties between research institute/academia and the nigerian industry.

For example despite Nigeria being a major oil producer, its very unlikely that Exxonmobil will commission Nigerian Universities to engage in research which could help reduce oil spills or maybe creating renewable energy. Unilever will not commission the chemical engineering department of the university of ibadan to create an enzyme which could efficiently food production. This is because our institution and the people running them have not focused on driving development through research. A lot of Nigerian professors have lamented the lack of funding in Nigerian institutions. This lends credence to the assertion that some want to do research like their peers abroad but are hindered by funds.

''Two years ago, the education commissioner of Nigeria's Kwara state revealed that nearly 20,000 of the state's teachers had been made to sit tests in English and maths designed for nine- and 10-year-olds, but only seven of the teachers could reach the minimum attainment level."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2010/sep/19/millennium-development-goals-nigeria-education


"We live in a country that evaluates your worth according to whether you've been to school abroad. But that's myopic, and it is covering up an explosive situation – a growing, angry, ill-educated young population without work."

well to summarized it all, it is the amount of input an individual put into something that produces output. inventions can only com if individuals, organsation, or the govt puts in a lot in terms of research, training,
as 4 nigeria, these things are not happening. thus, garbage in, garbage out.

Gamine:

''Two years ago, the education commissioner of Nigeria's Kwara state revealed that nearly 20,000 of the state's teachers had been made to sit tests in English and maths designed for nine- and 10-year-olds, but only seven of the teachers could reach the minimum attainment level."

WHAT?!?!?!? I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS THAT BAD?

davidif:

WHAT?!?!?!? I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS THAT BAD?

its true,only 20 passed. Lagos state govt just did a similar test 4 its teachers last week Friday at Wesley girls secondary school at yaba.

lekside44:

its true,only 20 passed. Lagos state govt just did a similar test 4 its teachers last week Friday at Wesley girls secondary school at yaba.

You should know better than   to post outlandish claims without any links. I am aware that the minimum requirement to be a teacher in a Lagos State secondary school is NCE or Bachelor of Education. So presumably they should have gone through all the necessary tests BEFORE they were recruited.

By the way have we now diverted from discussing the extent to which Nigerian university graduates are able to compete with their counterparts abroad as per top level research to lambasting teacher training and recruitment?? In other words the same hackneyed immature, irresponsible tactic of blaming the "system" .

SEFAGO:

This discussion is about the impact of education on developing Nigerians ability to conduct quality research. FYI, A significant amount of research does not happen in the US. Japan, Israel, South Africa, UK, Australia, China all have produced world leading research. The question is why Nigeria cannot produce such high level research or something innovative. I personally believe it has more to do with our environment and lack of funding (which is a byproduct of the environment). I had previously mentioned that research funding is not available to nigerian professors/researchers in nigeria which impedes any type of top-level research. Another problem is that there are even no ties between research institute/academia and the nigerian industry.

Actually I was hoping this thread  would provide an opportunity for people to be able to come up with practical suggestions as to how Nigerian universities and research institutes would be able to come up with top-class research. But as usual some people here are just whining and moaning.

The main stumbling block to top-level institutional-level research in Nigeria has been and is funding.

I am  talking primarily about funding for scholarships and sabbaticals that would actually give bright graduate students and young researchers in Physics Chemistry, Maths and Applied Science the opportunity to study and research at established centres of excellence worldwide.

This would ensure that these guys have the opportunity to learn their stuff under the tutelage of the pioneers who are at the heart of cutting edge developments. This is how countries like China, India and even Vietnam are able to produce Nobel Laureates and Fields medal winners.
[I certainly don't buy this idea that Nigeria can go it alone}

Hopefully some of these guys would be able to come back and supervise a new generation of researchers in their fields of expertise.

oyinda.:

Anyways, my recommendation is for the wealthy people in Nigeria to cultivate academic thinking in their children.  These "rich kids" the the ones that are more likely to come up with the ideas that change the world.
Another recommendation is for them (the wealthy people) to become philanthropists for the education system
The purpose of general education system is to diffuse useful/technical/professional knowledge ie one that will enable you to make a living out if it rather than one that encourages you to think outside the box. although the latter is the kind that creates civilization

Actually that was a rather clever point. There is no need for you to apologize to anyone  for it.
What such a thing does is to establish a research tradition and culture within a family.  It is no coincidence really that the top international scientific researchers   tend to  come from families with a very strong academic and research tradition.

I have read most of the post on this topic,  and i yet to see
anybody mention the fact that since the S.A.P measures were
placed on Nigeria since the late 80.s (1988 to be exact) the Education standards
and funding has "nose dived" in Nigeria and has not receovered
since.

The "IMF Repayment conditionalities" placed on Nigeria placed demands
on Nigeria to Cut back on "Education", "Health", Infrastructure Spending" and
other Public & Social spending in order to pay back the Interest and
Principle on Loans.

This is what gave rise to the ASUU strikes and
all other Educational strikes/Social Choas from 1989 onwards, but the government
would never mention that the lack or inadequate funding was due to "Debt/Restructural Loans repayments" even though the Oil & Gas Sector of the economy made some "Wind-Fall" Profits from 1990 - 1996.

Since then and even now the Federal Govt has been borrowing from the IMF/World Bank/Paris Club to even run its "Fiscal Expenditure"(Yearly Public
Spending) for a while now (The Nigerian Govt Borrowed in 2010 to run its public
expenditure with the Oil & Gas proceeds used as Collateral)

This gives you an indication of where any Economics Surplus is
going to from the Govt Coffers regardless of the Corruption/Graft that is
happenning.

The Shortfall in Education spending in the 90's gave rise to
private Universities, Colleges, Secondary Schools etc as Private Individuals
now saw opportunity to exploit the Loop-holes Financially,

The Education Curriculum for Secondary Schools and even Higer Institutions
are outdated and pre-historic and the Department of Education does not have any clear-cut Policy on the way forward to boost advancement in Education.

Instead of the Govt making full use of Information Technology to
boost learning in the Federal & State Higher Institutions, they are "hamstrung"
due to lack of funding and adequate resource.

Another issues is the "Intellectual Property" issues as most Software in Education requires License & contractual agreements.

Based on what i saw when i was in Lagos, Abuja a few weeks ago the Education Department is not ready at the moment to negotiate to obtain the various Software Licences for the Educational Packages.

The Nigerian Education Dept is not even taking advantage of Open source
software for Learning and how can they when the are not ready to
fund "Pilot Projects" in at least 5 to 10 Federal Higher Institutions
to test run the Open Source software/Training Courses!!!

The Average Nigerian Student at the age of 16 does not know how to sent up his
own email-account, Use Micro-soft word, excel, powerpoint, access etc.

The way forward is Information Technology which can be a Big-leap to
improve the Educational Standard but the Govt is slacking.

From what i have seen in Nigeria on my last Trip the finances exist
to solve the educational problems as the economy is growing more due to the additional high demads being placed on the Oil & Gas sector & Primary resource
sectors ie agriculture etc from East Asia, but the Collective will and lack of
adequate planning by our Legislature in Abuja is hindering the "Way-Forward"

If the situation at the top does not change in the near future, expect
more Private Indivduals to continue to exploit the situation for financial
gain irregardless of the standards they set in the "Private Instituations"

PhysicsQED:

lol, I knew this guy (davidif) was a hypocrite,


MBA? Nonsense, those people rarely ever innovate, they merely profit,

You have a point there. Guys like the OP, Gamine and Martinosi are just rambling off point.
I think some people here are confused between general education which enables one to fill out a job application form and perform in accordance with the job description, on the one hand, and top-level scientific and technical research, on the other hand, which in any country is undertaken by a very small minority.
The whole society then benefits from the pure research carried out by this minority when and if their research is envisaged to be 1)technically feasible 2)commercially viable and 3)financially rewarding for potential investors.

tensor777:

You have a point there. Guys like the OP, Gamine and Martinosi are just rambling off point.
I think some people here are confused here between general education which enables one to fill out a job application form and perform in accordance with the job description, on the one hand, and top-level scientific and technical research, on the other hand, which in any country is underatken by a very small minority.
The whole society then benefits from the pure research carried out by this minority when and if their research is envisaged to be 1)technically feasible 2)commercially viable and 3)financially rewarding for potential investors.

What is the point? If it is different from the OP's who you accuse of rambling,
go and open your own thread and place your point inside.

You never 'pointed' out anything you disagree with and you accuse people of rambling.

^^If you were to go through my previous posts on this thread you would find exactly what my views are on this diversionary "blame the system" tactic.

And if you go through mine, you would find that my views are fair.
No one is diverting anything.

Actually that was a rather clever point. There is no need for you to apologize to anyone for it.
What such a thing does is to establish a research tradition and culture within a family. It is no coincidence really that the top international scientific researchers tend to come from families with a very strong academic and research tradition.

there is a difference between a rich elite and a well educated elite. Yes in western nations a significant number of researchers are from elite families in academia. Its even common in Nigeria sef. But if you are expecting the children of babangida to be lab rats in a research lab when they can be yachting about with Nigeria's money then that's not happening.

SEFAGO:

there is a difference between a rich elite and a well educated elite. Yes in western nations a significant number of researchers are from elite families in academia. Its even common in Nigeria sef. But if you are expecting the children of babangida to be lab rats in a research lab when they can be yachting about with Nigeria's money then that's not happening.

Well it would be good if it did happen as these families can afford to send their children to the world's best scientific research institutes thereby giving them an opportunity to network with the world's brightest and most creative researchers.

This poster is simply a whiner. Sorry if it seems like a personal attack but it's the truth. I pointed out in another post that in terms of just pure research some Nigerians can stand out in a Western environment. But in Nigeria we have neither the scientifically developed and enthusiastic society (we don't even have electricity!) necessary nor the kind of funding necessary for Nobel prize quality research (unless somebody here thinks theoretical and experimental researchers in chemistry, biology, physics, etc. survive and produce results on air!) , so the few good ones we can produce sometimes come to the west and end up barely getting into the mainstream of important groundbreaking research and end up on the sidelines while white and Asian counterparts rocket past them to the one big discovery, theorem, cure, invention, etc. based on the sheer greater volume of them in a position for a potential breakthrough even when that Nigerian was born in or lived most of their life in the west. Simple logic dictates that, except for some unusually brilliant western born and/or based Nigerian, we can't have Nobel prize level discoveries given these circumstances and what's more, our group of immigrants to the west is also very money oriented.

So the question is, despite this, has he or the people around him ever bothered to try to achieve some prestigious discovery? Is he a mathematician, a physicist, a chemist, a biologist, or is he just "talking just to talk" while not even bothering to try to "walk the walk"? If he thinks that those abstract and prestigious discoveries that win the highest prizes will be of benefit to Nigeria as a country, he's misinformed, as it is usually, with a few exceptions, the applications that are of benefit in the way he has been talking and there is a great distinction between the two. With regard to the applications then, is he a computer scientist (an application of mathematics), research engineer or inventor (application of physics and chemistry), is he an oncologist or is he working on AIDS or other diseases? (applications of biology to medicine) or is he a biomedical engineer introducing advanced indigenous technology to Nigerian hospitals at lower cost than the pricey European machines? Any one of these things could really help Nigeria.

He also mentioned business empires based on science. If he had the drive, knowledge, and determination and if he had studied electrical engineering or applied physics up to at least a master's degree level there would be nothing, after acquiring some initial capital by working whatever jobs were available (I don't know whether the banking system is developed to an extent where the banks know to or are willing to give out major loans for start up businesses, regardless of Sanusi's efforts towards this), stopping him from starting a fiber optics company which could employ talented and qualified graduates or a power generation power project to bring light to citizens of his town who could pay.

If he had studied chemical engineering or environmental engineering there would be nothing stopping him from starting a waste management company by himself or with a few other qualified Nigerians to maybe tackle handling the enormous trash problems found in many Nigerian cities at a price to the governments of said states. If he had studied mechanical engineering/manufacturing engineering, he could be the next Henry Ford, or to start with a more realistic and local example, he could at least start something like an Innoson Vehicle Manufacturing Company, but start out as or eventually develop into something that doesn't need parts from China, maybe, and apply his know-how to make cars that could compete internationally. If he had studied computer science or electrical engineering up to a very high level there would be nothing stopping him from starting a even a very mediocre computer company like Zinox, but with his desire to compete with Intel, Qualcomm, etc., instead of being a mediocrity like Zinox, he would know to focus first on only one big necessary thing, like computer chips, and actually know about optimal computer architectures or how to build world-class competitive chips, hard drives, etc. and move on to other things later,


The truth is he probably did none of these things and nothing like any of these things and probably just wants to a be a paper pusher accountant or advertising consultant at such a company and is bemoaning the lack of companies in Nigeria in which to shuffle said papers. At least his pathetic, helpless, and whiny tone seem to betray that fact to me. I could be wrong about his occupation or inclinations, but definitely not his spirit, perspective, or willingness to solve problems (not just his own immediate ones) himself. That's all, really.

PhysicsQED:


The truth is he probably did none of these things and nothing like any of these things and probably just wants to a be a paper pusher accountant or advertising consultant at such a company and is bemoaning the lack of companies in Nigeria in which to shuffle said papers. At least his pathetic, helpless, and whiny tone seem to betray that fact to me. I could be wrong about his occupation or inclinations, but definitely not his spirit, perspective, or willingness to solve problems (not just his own immediate ones) himself. That's all, really.

To be fair though, I don't know anything about the OP as regards his paper qualifications or business start-up attempts but you still say the truth when you opine that castles cannot be conjured out of thin air.
I wouldn't expect Fields medal or Nobel prize quality stuff from Nigeria-based mathematicians, chemists and physicists  when few of them, if any, have the resources to regularly attend workshops and seminars where the latest developments are discussed and presented. How many of them have taken sabbaticals at the world leading institutes?
The truth is that no scientist of today can afford to be an Island unto himself. Thus the idea that we can have  strictly home-based groundbreaking scientific discoveries is frankly ludicrous.

God bless you martinosi.

martinosi:

I have read most of the post on this topic, and i yet to see
anybody mention the fact that since the S.A.P measures were
placed on Nigeria since the late 80.s (1988 to be exact) the Education standards
and funding has "nose dived" in Nigeria and has not receovered
since.

The "IMF Repayment conditionalities" placed on Nigeria placed demands
on Nigeria to Cut back on "Education", "Health", Infrastructure Spending" and
other Public & Social spending in order to pay back the Interest and
Principle on Loans.

This is what gave rise to the ASUU strikes and
all other Educational strikes/Social Choas from 1989 onwards, but the government
would never mention that the lack or inadequate funding was due to "Debt/Restructural Loans repayments" even though the Oil & Gas Sector of the economy made some "Wind-Fall" Profits from 1990 - 1996.

Since then and even now the Federal Govt has been borrowing from the IMF/World Bank/Paris Club to even run its "Fiscal Expenditure"(Yearly Public
Spending) for a while now (The Nigerian Govt Borrowed in 2010 to run its public
expenditure with the Oil & Gas proceeds used as Collateral)

This gives you an indication of where any Economics Surplus is
going to from the Govt Coffers regardless of the Corruption/Graft that is
happenning.

The Shortfall in Education spending in the 90's gave rise to
private Universities, Colleges, Secondary Schools etc as Private Individuals
now saw opportunity to exploit the Loop-holes Financially,

The Education Curriculum for Secondary Schools and even Higer Institutions
are outdated and pre-historic and the Department of Education does not have any clear-cut Policy on the way forward to boost advancement in Education.

Instead of the Govt making full use of Information Technology to
boost learning in the Federal & State Higher Institutions, they are "hamstrung"
due to lack of funding and adequate resource.

Another issues is the "Intellectual Property" issues as most Software in Education requires License & contractual agreements.

Based on what i saw when i was in Lagos, Abuja a few weeks ago the Education Department is not ready at the moment to negotiate to obtain the various Software Licences for the Educational Packages.

The Nigerian Education Dept is not even taking advantage of Open source
software for Learning and how can they when the are not ready to
fund "Pilot Projects" in at least 5 to 10 Federal Higher Institutions
to test run the Open Source software/Training Courses!!!

The Average Nigerian Student at the age of 16 does not know how to sent up his
own email-account, Use Micro-soft word, excel, powerpoint, access etc.

The way forward is Information Technology which can be a Big-leap to
improve the Educational Standard but the Govt is slacking.

From what i have seen in Nigeria on my last Trip the finances exist
to solve the educational problems as the economy is growing more due to the additional high demads being placed on the Oil & Gas sector & Primary resource
sectors ie agriculture etc from East Asia, but the Collective will and lack of
adequate planning by our Legislature in Abuja is hindering the "Way-Forward"

If the situation at the top does not change in the near future, expect
more Private Indivduals to continue to exploit the situation for financial
gain irregardless of the standards they set in the "Private Instituations"

PhysicsQED:

This poster is simply a whiner. Sorry if it seems like a personal attack but it's the truth. I pointed out in another post that in terms of just pure research some Nigerians can stand out in a Western environment. But in Nigeria we have neither the scientifically developed and enthusiastic society (we don't even have electricity!) necessary nor the kind of funding necessary for Nobel prize quality research (unless somebody here thinks theoretical and experimental researchers in chemistry, biology, physics, etc. survive and produce results on air!) , so the few good ones we can produce sometimes come to the west and end up barely getting into the mainstream of important groundbreaking research and end up on the sidelines while white and Asian counterparts rocket past them to the one big discovery, theorem, cure, invention, etc. based on the sheer greater volume of them in a position for a potential breakthrough even when that Nigerian was born in or lived most of their life in the west. Simple logic dictates that, except for some unusually brilliant western born and/or based Nigerian, we can't have Nobel prize level discoveries given these circumstances and what's more, our group of immigrants to the west is also very money oriented.

Actually it would have been very good if the thrust of the discussion on this thread was on how to foster a population of science enthusiasts. That is how countries like India and China were able to produce such brilliant scientists and technicians. We see their best students actually being encouraged to study science at undergraduate level and being sent in massive numbers to colleges and universities in the West for crucial doctorate studies and post-doc fellowships.
Many of them do come back and use the technical knowledge acquired to set up businesses not just in their home countries but also throughout Africa.
That is what Nigeria should emulate  if the country is serious about sconomic development but it cannot and should not be mainly a government initiative.

SEFAGO:

there is a difference between a rich elite and a well educated elite. Yes in western nations a significant number of researchers are from elite families in academia. Its even common in Nigeria sef. But if you are expecting the children of babangida to be lab rats in a research lab when they can be yachting about with Nigeria's money then that's not happening.

so are you saying that the "well educated elite" live in poverty?
to me, they are upper middle class at worst. so i don't get your point.

and by appealing to the wealthy in nigeria, i am generally appealing to people of means (professionals, businesspeople etc). not solely politicians although they are included. expecting bagangida's child to be a lab rat is like expecting ex. pres. bush's daughter to become a lab rat. so stop using nonsensical examples that don't make sense.
you seem unable to come up with your own ideas. except to criticize others'.

Martinosi also makes a very great point about SAP contributing to the problem. But that raises a question for me: davidif, are you talking specifically about public education? or are private schools (which don't seem to me to have been affected much by SAP) included?