faithin9ja:

@Bidemi12 Mr Man I have sad in previous post I do not have the answers, I have suggested one way, but you say you dey fear police. OK have it your way buy guns and bombs and start your armed revolution. If want to buy weapons I can help you there.

Obviously you are right , we must go and kill, call me when you are ready, I will follow you.

I give up. It's like arguing with an infant. you have suggested one way, even when the "way" does not make sense considering the realities on ground. Anyway sha, l give up like i said earlier. is there anyone here that i can jostle logicaly with? the floor is open.

faithin9ja:

@Cap28 Now you see why violence is not the answer? I am a capitalist, you sound like a socialist, by the time we both look for change in the country through violence, both of you & I will kill the so-called elite (I see you didn't address that in your reply) but anyway we take over power, we get rid of corruption, then what? me and you fight each other because I am a capitalist, I want a free market, I want to encourage investment and foreign trade, you other hand appear to be a socialist, you probably believe in government or state control of industry (bring back NITEL I hear you cheer).

capitalism creates poverty, it creates a skewed society, you have a small powerful elite who own huge wealth with the majority working to serve the interests of that minority.

most western societies have had a long history of trying to impose harsh capitalist policies on their people but such policies have been met with stiff resistance from their people .
In a civilised society provision must be made for the less privileged, this is not possible if your main objective is to make profit, nigeria practices a harsh undiluted form of capitalism.  Most western govts would never be allowed to get away with practising this in their own countries and that is the reason many american and british multinationals relocate their businesses to africa and south east asia.  They know that people in these countries are poor and desperate and easy to exploit and that is the whole basis of capitalism - exploitation and the pursuit of profit at any cost.

When  you say that i am a socialist - you are correct, because i do not beleive that human beings can co-exist peacefully in a society where one group amasses huge amounts of wealth while others live in abject poverty, but that is the world we live in today, capitalism has enabled  the western world to appropriate the wealth of weaker nations in order to enrich itself.  As if that isnt bad enough, it now exports this same destructive economic policy to africa and imposes it on our people and many of our people have bought into this lie - you included.  Capitalism among other things is the reason why less than 1% of the nigerian population own 85% of the wealth of nigeria.  

In the west there is also a significant gap between the rich and the poor but because capitalism is diluted to some extent with socialist policies, people in the west do not live in the type of grinding poverty that people in africa have been condemned to live in.

so we have different ideologies, that's no bad thing but how do we settle our differences, we are now used to violence, so we go to what we know best we start killing each other.

How does that help the country?

Remember this thread starting as whether we cheer the bombers in Abuja or not, you if I recall correctly said type of action is good, I say it isn't. But unlike civilised countries we would likely to settle our differences through the barrel of gun, rather than ballot box, people power or civil disobedience (which is how apartheid in South Africa and Segregation in the Southern US States ended).

actually america had to go to war against britain in order to gain its independence.  if george washington had lost the war he would have been hanged, he took a chance and won.

the americans also went to war over slavery, the south wanted to secede because they were rich and self sufficient, the north wanted to prevent that because they were afraid of the power that the south were beginning to wield.  so that shoudl tell you that the so called civilised countries of the world have gone to war over what they beleive in.

don't forget the first and second world wars in europe.

PS
I said western investment in Africa is extractive industries oil & gas, mining.You have supported that with your own stats. Real FDI is when foreign investors build houses, hotels, factories, telecoms in another country because they can make a profit, by they same token develop the country they are located and give jobs, apart from Lebanese and Indians do you see any new foreign factory or business in Nigeria apart from OIL & GAS? We have an inflated opinion of Nigeria. Even our African brother Obama didn't think it necessary to visit Nigeria

I explained to you why these other forms of FDI aren't in Nigeria, but they are coming - don't say i didnt warn you !!
Obama will visit nigeria when america's  preferred candidate - IBB wins the presidential ticket come 2011.

@Cap28 In civilised countries people are allowed to have different ideologies without killing each other, I respect your socialist views even though I don't agree with them. I am an entrepreneur I employ over 30 staff in Nigeria and a few in UK, so I guess I am a capitalist.

but remember this thread was on the efficacy of violence. I reiterate my fear that your views on violence are very similar to the views expressed by Stalin and Mao TesTung which killed millions and both Russia and China now have serious capitalist tendencies if not democratic government, I am trying to discourage you from thinking that only violence can solve Nigeria's problems.

I for one I am hoping for the day western companies come to Nigeria and bring FDI in areas other than oil and gas. I want unilever to open factories and shops, I want Taiwan & Korean factories to open factories in Nigeria, I want General Motors to open factories and showrooms in Nigeria. But with the current bunch of corrupt, blind politicians we have , the anti investment culture in the this country, this is not going to happen for a long time.

For the record the first and second world wars were not fought between left and right, but much more complex than that, I suggest you read your history.

Quote from: faithin9ja on Today at 10:35:20 PM
@Bidemi12 Mr Man I have sad in previous post I do not have the answers, I have suggested one way, but you say you dey fear police. OK have it your way buy guns and bombs and start your armed revolution. If want to buy weapons I can help you there.

Obviously you are right , we must go and kill, call me when you are ready, I will follow you.

I give up. It's like arguing with an infant. you have suggested one way, even when the "way" does not make sense considering the realities on ground. Anyway sha, l give up like i said earlier. is there anyone here that i can jostle logicaly with? the floor is open.

My idea is rubbish because Nigeria is a terrible society and lots of problems, ok you tell us how you will carry out your brute force. Yes, I agree I am being infantile. You be the grown-up and explain how we will go about this radical change and how we will send these criminal politicians to the  for firing squad. We are all listening to your words of wisdom.

faithin9ja:

@Cap28 In civilised countries people are allowed to have different ideologies without killing each other, I respect your socialist views even though I don't agree with them. I am an entrepreneur I employ over 30 staff in Nigeria and a few in UK, so I guess I am a capitalist.

but remember this thread was on the efficacy of violence. I reiterate my fear that your views on violence are very similar to the views expressed by Stalin and Mao TesTung which killed millions and both Russia and China now have serious capitalist tendencies if not democratic government, I am trying to discourage you from thinking that only violence can solve Nigeria's problems.

I for one I am hoping for the day western companies come to Nigeria and bring FDI in areas other than oil and gas. I want unilever to open factories and shops, I want Taiwan & Korean factories to open factories in Nigeria, I want General Motors to open factories and showrooms in Nigeria. But with the current bunch of corrupt, blind politicians we have , the anti investment culture in the this country, this is not going to happen for a long time.

For the record the first and second world wars were not fought between left and right, but much more complex than that, I suggest you read your history.

Name one civilized country that did not fight a war to instill the ideologies you so proudly associate with. You are a capitalist right? Guess who fought  for all of us to ensure that ideology was intact. (cold war) They did not wave placards for this to happen because the enemy was as ambitious to instill theirs (communism, Russia) on all of us.

faithin9ja:

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My idea is rubbish because Nigeria is a terrible society and lots of problems, ok you tell us how you will carry out your brute force. Yes, I agree I am being infantile. You be the grown-up and explain how we will go about this radical change and how we will send these criminal politicians to the for firing squad. We are all listening to your words of wisdom.

The funny thing is you are benefiting from sacrifices of others but are scared of the notion of physicaly making that same sacrifice. Do you think the world would be the way you think now if the allies waved placards at the germans instead of meeting them toe to toe? You want Nigeria to remain one right? Guess what? people fought to make it one now.

@bidemi12 so what's your solution?

faithin9ja:

@bidemi12 so what's your solution?

It is already happening. the ideology is starting to take root. what is the crutch that the elite is relying on? the belief that there is nothing we can do. They say "we have taken away their vote, the police is in our pocket and we have the assembly too" so if one by one, known and corrupt politicians like igbinedion are bombed sporadicaly or sniped you will see others sitting up. a society which exist where actions have no consequence is bound to collapse. obviously, Nigeria can never go to war again. (too many tribes and ethnic groups and the civil war has thought us that it would be the govt against a minority) but brute force from special interest groups fighting for their individual demands will force government to realize that good and equitable leadership for all is cheaper (not to mention safer) than the alternative. Mend is a prime example. See how government treats them like eggs; very carefully.

faithin9ja:

@Cap28 In civilised countries people are allowed to have different ideologies without killing each other, I respect your socialist views even though I don't agree with them. I am an entrepreneur I employ over 30 staff in Nigeria and a few in UK, so I guess I am a capitalist.

Well thats not entirely true, in so called civilised countries you can have a different ideology from the status quo provided nobody is listening to what you have to say, the minute people start to listen to what you say and stop listening to the status quo you become an enemy of the state and you are removed from the system: read about COINTELPRO a US govt run organisation which was set up by the FBI to crush all black militant organisations in the US.  

there's nothing wrong with running a business and employing people, when i talk about capitalism im not talking about small businesses im talking about giant corporations that wield more power than govts like Shell and Exxon Mobil - they are the types of businesses that create poverty and inequality in society with their exploitative practices.  

but remember this thread was on the efficacy of violence. I reiterate my fear that your views on violence are very similar to the views expressed by Stalin and Mao TesTung which killed millions and both Russia and China now have serious capitalist tendencies if not democratic government, I am trying to discourage you from thinking that only violence can solve Nigeria's problems.

My  views on violence are the same views espoused by almost all modern nations today, you forgot to add the US and Britain to your list.
I wish there could be an alternative to violent revolution but i cant see the current nigerian gangsters in office peacefully deciding to hand over power to a  new crop of leaders, without a fight, can you?

I for one I am hoping for the day western companies come to Nigeria and bring FDI in areas other than oil and gas. I want unilever to open factories and shops, I want Taiwan & Korean factories to open factories in Nigeria, I want General Motors to open factories and showrooms in Nigeria. But with the current bunch of corrupt, blind politicians we have , the anti investment culture in the this country, this is not going to happen for a long time.

Instead of wishing for all of these foreign investors to come in and exploit our cheap labour, you should be wishing that we develop our own factories and become a self sufficient industrialised nation.  We have the manpower and the skills to produce our own goods for export, why would you want us to go down the route of even more economic dependency?

For the record the first and second world wars were not fought between left and right, but much more complex than that, I suggest you read your history.

I didnt say the first and second world wars were fought between left and right i merely referred to them to demonstrate that the so called civilised world will go to war in order to fight for a cause - in the case of the second world war it was all about acquiring power and territory.

It is already happening. the ideology is starting to take root. what is the crutch that the elite is relying on? the belief that there is nothing we can do. They say "we have taken away their vote, the police is in our pocket and we have the assembly too" so if one by one, known and corrupt politicians like igbinedion are bombed sporadicaly or sniped you will see others sitting up. a society which exist where actions have no consequence is bound to collapse. obviously, Nigeria can never go to war again. (too many tribes and ethnic groups and the civil war has thought us that it would be the govt against a minority) but brute force from special interest groups fighting for their individual demands will force government to realize that good and equitable leadership for all is cheaper (not to mention safer) than the alternative. Mend is a prime example. See how government treats them like eggs; very carefully.

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Good idea Mr Judge , Jury & executioner, include Ibori, Odili and the child molester on the list, Yerirma, also add Donald Duke for his white elephant Tinapa, and I think we should add Fashola to the list, after all a few flowers and buses, does cover the fact corrupt practices are still going on in Lagos State. And when we target them make sure we take out their oppressive security detail too. So to be sure all 36 governors must go and their deputies, IG of police, Heads of Service, all senators but not all House of Rep, just heads of committees, I think that should be enough to shake the establishment

faithin9ja:

Good idea Mr Judge , Jury & executioner, include Ibori, Odili and the child molester on the list, Yerirma, also add Donald Duke for his white elephant Tinapa, and I think we should add Fashola to the list, after all a few flowers and buses, does cover the fact corrupt practices are still going on in Lagos State. And when we target them make sure we take out their oppressive security detail too. So to be sure all 36 governors must go and their deputies, IG of police, Heads of Service, all senators but not all House of Rep, just heads of committees, I think that should be enough to shake the establishment

Oh boy, here we go again. you are what i will call a typical Nigerian. with all the massive problems you are facing you'd rather lie down and take it hoping that Jesus comes soon to deliver you. dont you get it? you are in bondage with no hope of relief. a bully is on a daily basis plummeling you and you decide to take it knowing fully well that the principal and teachers are on his side. will you not fight back? no wonder nigeria has stayed so long in bondage. mark my words, come 2020 we will still be on the same subject. when do you take action? i dont want to call you a coward but. . . . . . .

I

for one I am hoping for the day western companies come to Nigeria and bring FDI in areas other than oil and gas. I want unilever to open factories and shops, I want Taiwan & Korean factories to open factories in Nigeria, I want General Motors to open factories and showrooms in Nigeria. But with the current bunch of corrupt, blind politicians we have , the anti investment culture in the this country, this is not going to happen for a long time.

Instead of wishing for all of these foreign investors to come in and exploit our cheap labour, you should be wishing that we develop our own factories and become a self sufficient industrialised nation.  We have the manpower and the skills to produce our own goods for export, why would you want us to go down the route of even more economic dependency?

The world is a smaller place, shared technology and capital is the trend. the biggest car factory in Europe is Toyota in UK, followed by Nissan in UK, Samsung make TV's in UK, is that bad? Why do we have to re-invent the wheel. For instance the obsession with a Nigerian car, just get a Nissan to make cars in Nigeria. UK and EU countries give FDI tax concessions to open businesses and factories in their countries,we want to make ours from scratch and sell to who? That's why we should encourage FDI, but it the IBB's, of this world (according to you friend of America) that create an atmosphere that is totally unconducive any business, foreign or local, no light, customs wahala, multiple taxation, crime, militant extortion, no fuel, non existent labour laws, etc.

That's why foreigners don't want to invest in Nigeria, they don't think they can make a profit despite the large market or resourceful people.

But I suppose you as a socialist would prefer for the Nigerian government to open a run factories and businesses.

It is already happening. the ideology is starting to take root. what is the crutch that the elite is relying on? the belief that there is nothing we can do. They say "we have taken away their vote, the police is in our pocket and we have the assembly too" so if one by one, known and corrupt politicians like igbinedion are bombed sporadicaly or sniped you will see others sitting up. a society which exist where actions have no consequence is bound to collapse. obviously, Nigeria can never go to war again. (too many tribes and ethnic groups and the civil war has thought us that it would be the govt against a minority) but brute force from special interest groups fighting for their individual demands will force government to realize that good and equitable leadership for all is cheaper (not to mention safer) than the alternative. Mend is a prime exampl[/b]e. See how government treats them like eggs; very carefully.


Oh boy, here we go again. you are what i will call a typical Nigerian. with all the massive problems you are facing you'd rather lie down and take it hoping that Jesus comes soon to deliver you. dont you get it? you are in bondage with no hope of relief. a bully is on a daily basis plummeling you and you decide to take it knowing fully well that the principal and teachers are on his side. will you not fight back? no wonder nigeria has stayed so long in bondage. mark my words, come 2020 we will still be on the same subject. when do you take action?[b] i dont want to call you a coward but. . . . . . .

Young man you are not thinking this through, come off your high horse, read between the lines of what I am saying, I know you are not stupid, just over passionate. You can't even see the my sarcasm? - just like the very politicians you comdemn

Special Interest groups? who forms these special interest groups, how do we settle the internal differences in the interest groups, just an example we want to take out presidential candidates, I believe most Nigerian will say take out IBB, personally I would agree but I also cannot stand Buhari, I believe this blood thirsty tyrant has no business being a presidential candidate, some people will argue with me, how do we agree whether to take him down as well?, this kind of confusion will spread to every 'special interest group.

The interest groups themselves are faillable, you need to look no further than MEND, did they plant the bomb or did they not? MEND itself was formed by the politicians boys, Bokassi Boys in the East the same, OPC the same, Bornboy and his touts in Benin, where are the genuine interest groups. They all interested in their individual pockets. So who else will form these groups? lecturers, ex-military, motor par touts, carpenters, okada riders, are better still youth corpers?

So you think you can turn the tap of violence off and on at will, and we control it so it won't spill over to ethnic and tribal inferences, even on Nairaland see how people insult one another over tribe, talk less of motor park level. Ethnic group, tribe and religion will surely come into play. I think Donald Duke is little better than Igbenedion, but where is my proof? But if I have gun I will shoot him anyway. You take out man like Yerima, Zamfara state will start killing Christians in the state, how do you stop that?

Do really think that if will kill a few of these tyrants, the rest will behave, hell no, they will feel they are under siege, they will recruit private armies in addition to the state apparatus at their disposal and come hunting for us, which means war, simple as.

Please my brother there is no such thing as clean clinical violence or taking out - that is for movies.

If you have injured somebody like I have, or poured acid on another human being like I have then like talk about violence and whether it works.

In the last 50 years, no country that has experience bloodletting and come out better for it, Somalia, Congo, Sierra Leone, Liberia even Haiti are not places I see Nigerians queueing to get visa to visit. There is still corruption in these places

In the modern world people power is what counts, see the hundreds of thousands in the orange revolution in Georgia, see the Philippines even Russia, millions come onto the streets, let Tejusho market women take over the local government office and see if on Monday the LG official that collects money every Monday won't change his route. Your are talking over ten thousand women in one small LG office, see the effect!!!

This post started because some people felt that MEND had the right idea with the bombs on 1st of October, that is rapidly turning into a farce, but 12 or 16 people have died, we don't even know for sure how many died but I bet their children, wives, parents know who died that day.

Old boy, am not a coward, but am not stupid either, I choose my battles carefully

So we don forget this one go?
ROFLMAO

SO no news from this again ?
They should be prosecuted
And Boko Haram should be dealt with ,
Nigeria needs to show that Bombing would not be accepted irrespective of the person doing it, whether from north or south,
We cant be living in a bomb prone country
But sadly, this one and the january 1st bombing is swept under the carpet

So when are we resolving this President odechukwu reetardeen Jonathan?

the vigorous response is coming.

just give jona one year