budaatum:

When I began playing hockey I'd look at my stick when I missed the ball and think stupid stick until after a few times coach would whack you with his stick and if you got the hump would say, "don't blame me, its me stick".

Atheist tend not to have much beef with religions that do not evangelize is what I've found, and Christians, of all religions, can't help being in your face, especially we Nigerians. People would ask if you were born again or a variation and look at you like you damned and bathed in poo if you said you were an atheist then try to save you as you look at them thinking what part of no gods don't they get. It was comically if not sad that people of Christ will look at one and just damn one to hell. Then they'd pray for you then beg for money at which point I'd be like, did your Jesus saviour not give you any? The cheek of them, asking me they damned to give them my damned money! Yep, they hated me. They still do. How the heck can you expect to receive the money I work hard for when you were singing haleluya hosana to the highest at night vigil and sleeping during the day? They stand a better chance of me gladly paying them if they'd been reading their Bible instead!

Christians need to go back to see how Christ done it is what I think, instead of blaming their lazy incompetence on their stick and the balls of the atheists. The Word does not lie where it says knees bow!

The church is like a mighty big hospital that consists of those who are already healed with those still recieving treatment for various ailments. And even sometimes, you'll find a few medical workers having their own issues.

So, imagine a man who has started treatment for leprosy, cough and cataract going on the outside to condemn the man with ulcer that such will die a horrific and painful death (with no empathy). Such a stance will cause a defensive reaction and a comparison by the man who never started any treatment.

I guess, it's like the statement "physician, heal thyself!". It's either the medical practitioners are releasing there inmates too soon into the world or the treatment is taking too long (either no discipleship or bad discipleship).

Either way, an ignorant Christian is a dangerous and probably reckless person to be let out of the hospital. Probably thats why the Master says:
Go into all the world
Preach the good news
Teaching them to observe my teachings
Before the cycle repeat itself again

In other words, it takes a disciple to preach and make another disciple. A novice has the duty of growing! The church's problem began when prosperity doctrines entered..and the gospel became a product.

Having said this:
We shouldn't forget that just as some Christians are evangelistic, some Atheists are also commissioned to spread the contamination of satan to others. From their infectious disease facilities, the deliberately go out to spread illness through the land.

Hence, a Christ's disciple must depend on Him when he interacts with the unsaved. It's not easy though, for even an evangelistic Atheist is not beyond Christ's plan of salvation.

shadeyinka:

You will wait for evidence, BUT are you really searching for evidence OR you have made up your mind despite your lack of evidence while thinking you will change your mind when shadeyinka is able to bring up a convincing evidence

If that was the plan I wouldn't be on this forum engaging you. I will just jejely stay on my own convinced that noone will ever say anything worth considering so no need to bother.

shadeyinka:

I thought I have responded about Islam as an Abrahamic religion who promises hell for troublesome Atheists?

Afterlife stuff for us is purely academic because it has not been demonstrated in any way. What is more pressing for us is how we live now, a subject religion has a lot to say about and seems to generate a lot of bad ideas.

LordReed:


Afterlife stuff for us is purely academic because it has not been demonstrated in any way. What is more pressing for us is how we live now, a subject religion has a lot to say about and seems to generate a lot of bad ideas.

But I think you are too fixated on the Physical to even consider the feasibility of the Spiritual.

A computer program isn't tangible in any way. It isn't physically demonstrable, yet, it is that which powers the complex behaviours of computers. If human aren't programmers of computers and microcontrollers, probably it would be part of our arguments now where some will say
1. We know that a "ghost script" controls the computer
AND others will say (where's your evidence)
2. We do not believe a "ghost scripts" exist in a computer because such has not been explicitly proved
OR
3. We are certain that "ghost scripts" doesn't exist in computers by our studies.

From hinde sight, we know that despite the fact that a computer program is NOT measurable by any known Scientific instrument, it is a reality.

Same with the spirit realm. That's why I've insisted that the position of "insufficient evidence" isn't a proof of correctness.

The teachings of Christ is simple:
Paraphrased:
1. We live in a fallen (infected) world and everyone's Program's Kernel is contaminated/infected by the virus of sin
2. The Programmer's (God's) love has provided an Antivirus through the blood of Christ
3. If anyone accepts God's Antivirus: such a persons kernel will be renewed/restored
4. As many programs as are renewed/cleaned will become reusable in the hand of the Programmer (God)
5. Programs that are not renewed are discarded in the "Recycle Bin" with all the infectious viruses

Programs whose kernels have been cleaned are expected to Acquire the Knowledge and Obedience of the Antivirus (Christ) to:
1. Love other programs within the system whether clean or unclean
2. Help Train other Cleaned Programs to be like the antivirus AND
3. Inform the infected programs in the system about the risk of the "recycle bin" and the availability of the Antivirus for the renewing of their kernel.

Sorry for over simplifying the Gospel. Sounds like "The Matrix"?

Have all Christians been a representation of the duty above? No!
But then, it doesn't change the truth. The Spiritual Realm is analogous to "Computer Codes". How can one physically demonstrate /prove the existence of a computer code within a machine when in complete denial of the possibility of its existence!?

LordReed:


If that was the plan I wouldn't be on this forum engaging you. I will just jejely stay on my own convinced that noone will ever say anything worth considering so no need to bother.

All I am after is for you the think deeper than you've ever thought and not conclude too early to discard the possibility of God being the TRUTH.

An Agnostic Atheist should be an active Seeker of the truth not one who STOPS to search while not yet knowing

Ask and You Shall Recieve
Seek and You Shall Find
Knock and it will be open unto you

The above is Truly Wisdom!

shadeyinka:

But I think you are too fixated on the Physical to even consider the feasibility of the Spiritual.

A computer program isn't tangible in any way. It isn't physically demonstrable, yet, it is that which powers the complex behaviours of computers. If human aren't programmers of computers and microcontrollers, probably it would be part of our arguments now where some will say
1. We know that a "ghost script" controls the computer
AND others will say (where's your evidence)
2. We do not believe a "ghost scripts" exist in a computer because such has not been explicitly proved
OR
3. We are certain that "ghost scripts" doesn't exist in computers by our studies.

From hinde sight, we know that despite the fact that a computer program is NOT measurable by any known Scientific instrument, it is a reality.

Same with the spirit realm. That's why I've insisted that the position of "insufficient evidence" isn't a proof of correctness.

The teachings of Christ is simple:
Paraphrased:
1. We live in a fallen (infected) world and everyone's Program's Kernel is contaminated/infected by the virus of sin
2. The Programmer's (God's) love has provided an Antivirus through the blood of Christ
3. If anyone accepts God's Antivirus: such a persons kernel will be renewed/restored
4. As many programs as are renewed/cleaned will become reusable in the hand of the Programmer (God)
5. Programs that are not renewed are discarded in the "Recycle Bin" with all the infectious viruses

Programs whose kernels have been cleaned are expected to Acquire the Knowledge and Obedience of the Antivirus (Christ) to:
1. Love other programs within the system whether clean or unclean
2. Help Train other Cleaned Programs to be like the antivirus AND
3. Inform the infected programs in the system about the risk of the "recycle bin" and the availability of the Antivirus for the renewing of their kernel.

Sorry for over simplifying the Gospel. Sounds like "The Matrix"?

Have all Christians been a representation of the duty above? No!
But then, it doesn't change the truth. The Spiritual Realm is analogous to "Computer Codes". How can one physically demonstrate /prove the existence of a computer code within a machine when in complete denial of the possibility of its existence!?

In as much as a computer program is intangible, it is demonstrable. You can copy it from one computer to another and will still give the same result, no faith required. Nothing like this can be demonstrated for the spiritual. If I ask you now, 1 thing that is spiritual that anybody can demonstrate without a doubt that it is spiritual, you will not be able to give me an example but by all means prove me wrong.

shadeyinka:

All I am after is for you the think deeper than you've ever thought and not conclude too early to discard the possibility of God being the TRUTH.

An Agnostic Atheist should be an active Seeker of the truth not one who STOPS to search while not yet knowing

Ask and You Shall Recieve
Seek and You Shall Find
Knock and it will be open unto you

The above is Truly Wisdom!

Again I ask where did you see me conclude? I am very critical of religion because I have been involved and I know the weak spots so you can't use those to attempt to persuade me. Instead, it requires you to think very deeply about the things you believe and show me the things that are undoubtedly true about them.

LordReed:


Again I ask where did you see me conclude? I am very critical of religion because I have been involved and I know the weak spots so you can't use those to attempt to persuade me. Instead, it requires you to think very deeply about the things you believe and show me the things that are undoubtedly true about them.

I don't even doubt that you had been a fanatical Christian before. No!
But religion isn't your first problem. Your first huddle is, "Does God exist?" OR "Is the Universe just a mere accident?".

Only after that will "religion" make any sense. BTW, Jesus didn't come to establish a religion: He came to establish a relationship!

LordReed:


In as much as a computer program is intangible, it is demonstrable. You can copy it from one computer to another and will still give the same result, no faith required. Nothing like this can be demonstrated for the spiritual. If I ask you now, 1 thing that is spiritual that anybody can demonstrate without a doubt that it is spiritual, you will not be able to give me an example but by all means prove me wrong.

You jump forward too soon?
Copying software is based on the assumption that
1. Programs exists and can be copied from one machine to another (this may not be true)
2. Not all programs are designed to be copied or replicated except by the hardware manufacturer.

Like you can't copy the program of the Apolo space craft into a Pentium Intel Core7 Computer.

Only the Programmers of such program can port such codes.


So, once again:

shadeyinka:

But I think you are too fixated on the Physical to even consider the feasibility of the Spiritual.

A computer program isn't tangible in any way. It isn't physically demonstrable, yet, it is that which powers the complex behaviours of computers. If human aren't programmers of computers and microcontrollers, probably it would be part of our arguments now where some will say
1. We know that a "ghost script" controls the computer
AND others will say (where's your evidence)
2. We do not believe a "ghost scripts" exist in a computer because such has not been explicitly proved
OR
3. We are certain that "ghost scripts" doesn't exist in computers by our studies.

From hinde sight, we know that despite the fact that a computer program is NOT measurable by any known Scientific instrument, it is a reality.

Same with the spirit realm. That's why I've insisted that the position of "insufficient evidence" isn't a proof of correctness.

The teachings of Christ is simple:
Paraphrased:
1. We live in a fallen (infected) world and everyone's Program's Kernel is contaminated/infected by the virus of sin
2. The Programmer's (God's) love has provided an Antivirus through the blood of Christ
3. If anyone accepts God's Antivirus: such a persons kernel will be renewed/restored
4. As many programs as are renewed/cleaned will become reusable in the hand of the Programmer (God)
5. Programs that are not renewed are discarded in the "Recycle Bin" with all the infectious viruses

Programs whose kernels have been cleaned are expected to Acquire the Knowledge and Obedience of the Antivirus (Christ) to:
1. Love other programs within the system whether clean or unclean
2. Help Train other Cleaned Programs to be like the antivirus AND
3. Inform the infected programs in the system about the risk of the "recycle bin" and the availability of the Antivirus for the renewing of their kernel.

Sorry for over simplifying the Gospel. Sounds like "The Matrix"?

Have all Christians been a representation of the duty above? No!
But then, it doesn't change the truth. The Spiritual Realm is analogous to "Computer Codes". How can one physically demonstrate /prove the existence of a computer code within a machine when in complete denial of the possibility of its existence!?

shadeyinka:

You jump forward too soon?
Copying software is based on the assumption that
1. Programs exists and can be copied from one machine to another (this may not be true)
2. Not all programs are designed to be copied or replicated except by the hardware manufacturer.

Like you can't copy the program of the Apolo space craft into a Pentium Intel Core7 Computer.

Only the Programmers of such program can port such codes.


So, once again:

The point stands, programs intangible as they may be, can be demonstrated. Find a demonstration of the spiritual anybody can do and be sure that it is spiritual.

shadeyinka:

I don't even doubt that you had been a fanatical Christian before. No!
But religion isn't your first problem. Your first huddle is, "Does God exist?" OR "Is the Universe just a mere accident?".

Only after that will "religion" make any sense. BTW, Jesus didn't come to establish a religion: He came to establish a relationship!

It is with religion you aim to show that a god exists is it not? Or else you'd be a Muslim not a Christian.

LordReed:


It is with religion you aim to show that a god exists is it not? Or else you'd be a Muslim not a Christian.

No Sir!
Religion is what man does in attempts of pleasing the devine.

The path humans take in pleasing God or the gods is the religion. Before religion is first the acceptance as fact that a Deity exist

LordReed:


The point stands, programs intangible as they may be, can be demonstrated. Find a demonstration of the spiritual anybody can do and be sure that it is spiritual.

Ok!
Tell me how to demonstrate the software that runs a Washing Machine?
(Let's assume we no nothing about programming but we know lots of physics and chemistry)

shadeyinka:

Ok!
Tell me how to demonstrate the software that runs a Washing Machine?
(Let's assume we no nothing about programming but we know lots of physics and chemistry)

Give me a model of washing machine that runs on software.

Meanwhile, you are not answering the substantive question. Why are you diverting to demonstration of software? Are you in doubt that software can be demonstrated?

shadeyinka:

No Sir!
Religion is what man does in attempts of pleasing the devine.

The path humans take in pleasing God or the gods is the religion. Before religion is first the acceptance as fact that a Deity exist

Are you a Christian?

LordReed:


Are you a Christian?

What at Question!?
Of course! You already know that

LordReed:


Give me a model of washing machine that runs on software.

Meanwhile, you are not answering the substantive question. Why are you diverting to demonstration of software? Are you in doubt that software can be demonstrated?

An example: LG PUNCH +3 model

A software is analogous to a spirit!

You can't demonstrate a software except with another software. And that is like a circular logic.

shadeyinka:

What at Question!?
Of course! You already know that

Then you practice a religion, simple. Prevaricating on what religion is, is not helpful in any way. When anybody says religion we know what they mean, it is unnecessary to attempt a redefinition when it does nothing to clarify what we are referring to.

Michellekabod2:

Lol I ignored the thread because of the derailing and strawmans created by you theists.. silenced who? You theists remain a butt-joke to me. The thread hijacked by your likes to obfuscate was left for you and I stopped following the thread . ..
Jubiliate as long as you can around a bonfire..all you put up there is a pile of horse poo

isn't this thread about Faith ? as an atheist , how can you defend your atheism ?;that you just woke up one morning and conclude, God does not exist , and if I ask why ? because you say so ? by FAITH we believed God exist and Jesus has PROVE IT for everyone.

if faith is delusional, so does love, fear and evil, would you confidently say that the love your mother had for you is delusional ? from childhood, your parents BELIEVED in you, they had FAITH in YOU that's why they put you in school and INVEST in your education. so you're saying they are in delusion ? I pray atheism will not bring disrespect to our LOVES one. you cannot make yourself believe that there is a pink dragon in your living room.

our desperate move is not for cleaver argument, but how you can have a powerful encounter with the one you deny, for you to encounter it you need to believe FIRST .

YOU ARE THE PROVE OF HIS EXISTENCE.

shadeyinka:

An example: LG PUNCH +3 model

1. It has a microprocessor installed by the manufacturer LG.
2. Microprocessors are exclusively made to interpret software into actionable instructions.
3. The actionable instructions are carried out, seen and felt no matter what state of faith you have.
4. Every step from 1-3 can be repeated with the same results every single time no matter what state of faith you have.

A software is analogous to a spirit!

You can't demonstrate a software except with another software. And that is like a circular logic.

Why you need this level of obfuscation is beyond me. Are the hardware necessary to run software themselves software? SMDH

LordReed:


Then you practice a religion, simple. Prevaricating on what religion is, is not helpful in any way. When anybody says religion we know what they mean, it is unnecessary to attempt a redefinition when it does nothing to clarify what we are referring to.

It is very consistent with my definition. I didn't say I don't practice a religion even though Christianity is not essentially a religion but a relationship.

Islam, Christianity , Buddhism are different methods/patterns for which people attempt to please the devine. Eg. Through Holy living, Fasting, Praying, Studying the Word, Evangelism, Worship etc

And it is consistent even with the fact that Jesus didn't come to establish a religion but a relationship.

Like: We have a relationship with our Parents yet we try to do things to please them

LordReed:


1. It has a microprocessor installed by the manufacturer LG.
2. Microprocessors are exclusively made to interpret software into actionable instructions.
3. The actionable instructions are carried out, seen and felt no matter what state of faith you have.
4. Every step from 1-3 can be repeated with the same results every single time no matter what state of faith you have.



Why you need this level of obfuscation is beyond me. Are the hardware necessary to run software themselves software? SMDH

You have only described the hardware and not the software.

The so-called instructions are the software that I expect you to demonstrate either by opening up the Microcontroller and showing the color, weight, size, charge or other measurable parts of the software. That's my challenge.

You are run by a software in your brain (CPU) yet you don't treat your actions as proof of a software (soul/spirit): do you?
Why should this actionable behaviour of machines be taken as evidence for a MCU software?

shadeyinka:

You have only described the hardware and not the software.

The so-called instructions are the software that I expect you to demonstrate either by opening up the Microcontroller and showing the color, weight, size, charge or other measurable parts of the software. That's my challenge.

You are run by a software in your brain (CPU) yet you don't treat your actions as proof of a software (soul/spirit): do you?
Why should this actionable behaviour of machines be taken as evidence for a MCU software?

Because I can see a microprocessor without any software, that is the demonstration. We already agree software is intangible yet here you are asking me to show you its weight. You act like you don't remember what we have said in the same thread, do you have a problem with memory or is your agenda leaking through?

Have you seen a brain without this spirit you are talking about?

shadeyinka:

It is very consistent with my definition. I didn't say I don't practice a religion even though Christianity is not essentially a religion but a relationship.

Islam, Christianity , Buddhism are different methods/patterns for which people attempt to please the devine. Eg. Through Holy living, Fasting, Praying, Studying the Word, Evangelism, Worship etc

And it is consistent even with the fact that Jesus didn't come to establish a religion but a relationship.

Like: We have a relationship with our Parents yet we try to do things to please them

There is a difference between a relationship and religion. It's just funny how you need to do this, it will not change anything or make anything clearer.

LordReed:


There is a difference between a relationship and religion. It's just funny how you need to do this, it will not change anything or make anything clearer.

That's what I've been saying:
There is a difference between Religion and Relationship

Relationship:
is about what binds/connects a person with another
Religion :
is what you do in pleasing a devine being.

Our relationship as Christians to the Creator God is FATHER to Child Relationship

We please this our Devine Father by Living according to His instructions of purity, Worship, Giving, Studying His words etc

I think it's simple to comprehend.

shadeyinka:

That's what I've been saying:
There is a difference between Religion and Relationship

Relationship:
is about what binds/connects a person with another
Religion :
is what you do in pleasing a devine being.

Our relationship as Christians to the Creator God is FATHER to Child Relationship

We please this our Devine Father by Living according to His instructions of purity, Worship, Giving, Studying His words etc

I think it's simple to comprehend.

In forms where there is a space for religion do you write this unnecessary explanation or do you simply write Christian?

LordReed:


Because I can see a microprocessor without any software, that is the demonstration. We already agree software is intangible yet here you are asking me to show you its weight. You act like you don't remember what we have said in the same thread, do you have a problem with memory or is your agenda leaking through?

Have you seen a brain without this spirit you are talking about?

Let me show you the parallel

Computer: Hardwares
Human: Body Organs

Computer: CPU and Memories
Human: Central Nervous Systems

Computer: Software (ROM)
Human : DNA

Computer: Software (OS and Application Softwares)
Human: Soul and Spirit

Computer: I/O systems
Human: Senses

Looking at these parallels, I believe you can't see, measure or quantify the software part of man even though exists: it is INTANGIBLE. The fact that you can't Physically prove it doesn't invalidate or negate it's REALITY!

This buttresses my assertion that not having enough/convincing physical evidence is not a good reason to discard the possibility of the SPIRIT realms from being real

LordReed:


In forms where there is a space for religion do you write this unnecessary explanation or do you simply write Christian?

Maybe I don't understand you or what you are getting at because I see no issue in whether I call my religion Christianity or NOT

shadeyinka:

Maybe I don't understand you or what you are getting at because I see no issue in whether I call my religion Christianity or NOT

I am getting at it being unnecessary to tell me Christianity is not a religion it's a relationship when the word religion serves just fine. In the forms I referred to, you do not attempt to explain that you are in a relationship because you understand what is required. That is the level of understanding we should maintain.

shadeyinka:

Let me show you the parallel

Computer: Hardwares
Human: Body Organs

Computer: CPU and Memories
Human: Central Nervous Systems

Computer: Software (ROM)
Human : DNA

Computer: Software (OS and Application Softwares)
Human: Soul and Spirit

Computer: I/O systems
Human: Senses

Looking at these parallels, I believe you can't see, measure or quantify the software part of man even though exists: it is INTANGIBLE. The fact that you can't Physically prove it doesn't invalidate or negate it's REALITY!

This buttresses my assertion that not having enough/convincing physical evidence is not a good reason to discard the possibility of the SPIRIT realms from being real

That is not the issue and glad you know you are asserting, assertions are not proof. The issue is can you demonstrate this parallel? I can remove software from a microprocessor and put it back, the result will be the same every single time. Can you demonstrate something similar for your brain and spirit parallel?

malvisguy212:
isn't this thread about Faith ? as an atheist , how can you defend your atheism ?;that you just woke up one morning and conclude, God does not exist , and if I ask why ? because you say so ? by FAITH we believed God exist and Jesus has PROVE IT for everyone.

if faith is delusional, so does love, fear and evil, would you confidently say that the love your mother had for you is delusional ? from childhood, your parents BELIEVED in you, they had FAITH in YOU that's why they put you in school and INVEST in your education. so you're saying they are in delusion ? I pray atheism will not bring disrespect to our LOVES one. you cannot make yourself believe that there is a pink dragon in your living room.

our desperate move is not for cleaver argument, but how you can have a powerful encounter with the one you deny, for you to encounter it you need to believe FIRST .

YOU ARE THE PROVE OF HIS EXISTENCE.

You should read this article, to better understand who an atheist is.

LordReed:


Afterlife stuff for us is purely academic because it has not been demonstrated in any way. What is more pressing for us is how we live now, a subject religion has a lot to say about and seems to generate a lot of bad ideas Understanding.

Jesus is written to have [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A25-34&version=NIV]said[/url] don't worry about your daily bread or what you shall eat tomorrow, so a Christian worrying about some afterlife is in error.