Sapeleguy said:

Omo_tier1 - if Nigeria's progress was to be measured in white papers and proposals we would be leading the developed world in all development indices.

We have to be a bit light hearted sometimes.

The scepticism witnessed here is wholly justified when you bear in mind that this a country that can not maintain ordinary drainage gutters.

Dude please spare me this line of ''we cannot maintain this yet we want to do that''.

It is a TIRED, DISCREDITED AND REDUNDANT BEER PARLOUR argument.

Look below:

This is India: (Mumbai)

[img]http://propago.files./2009/03/slum-mumbai1.jpg[/img][img]http://sathyasaibaba.files./2009/01/dharavi-slum-mumbai.jpg[/img]


As you can see, they have the same social problems as us, even on a higher scale if you take their population. India is plagued by power cuts, bad roads, and lack of basic infrastructure.

Has it stopped Indians from embracing high technology, from satellites to nuclear technology?

Has any of the nuclear plants in India ''blown up'', since Indians ''cannot maintain ordinary drainage gutters''?


Take a look at Brazil. Rio De Janeiro:





Do you know Brazil has developed rockets and launched into space?

Do you know Brazil has several nuclear power plants?

Do you think these nations know something that YOU don't, ie, that cutting edge technology must be harnessed at whatever cost for the speedy improvement in the lives of their people?

Why should Nigeria be any different?

This is laughable. We need to get our priorities straight. Nuclear is not anything to mess up with. If any kind of nuclear accident happens that place and surrounding areas will be inhabitable for MANY MANY years. Also think about the biological consequences of the nuclear radition if something were to go wrong.

Nigeria can eventually go into nuclear tech, but right now does not seem to be the best time. The argument about "we can't even do one yet we want to do another" is very warranted. Building space satellite will not have the potential to wipe out millions of people and make the area a "no go area" for generations so we should not draw reference to that.

We don't have to wait until nigeria has no poverty before it builds nuclear plant. What I and many others are concerned with is the current crop of leaders we have who will pay no attention to necessary pressing matters, but will only look to fill their pockets. So would make us to believe that necessary regulations and monitoring would take place to ensure safety once the plant is built? Also, where are we doing to dump the nuclear waste?


If nigeria took care of its oil and gas and we had a good maintenece culture, I don't think people would be as fearful.

The waste from nuclear energy is extremely dangerous. Can you imagine if islamics group in Nigeria put their hands on this nuclear waste?. Less than 8 kilograms of plutonium is enough for one Nagasaki-type bomb. A typical reactor will generate 20 to 30 tons of high-level nuclear waste annually. There is no known way to safely dispose of this waste, which remains dangerously radioactive for thousands of years. In March of 1979 equipment failures and human error contributed to an accident at the Three Mile Island nuclear reactor at Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, the worst such accident in U.S. history. Consequences of the incident include radiation contamination of surrounding areas, increased cases of thyroid cancer, and plant mutations. Some of these radioactive isotopes are extraordinarily long-lived, remaining toxic for hundreds of thousands of years. Presently, we are only beginning to observe and experience the consequences of producing nuclear energy.

trueword said:

This is laughable. We need to get our priorities straight. Nuclear is not anything to mess up with. If any kind of nuclear accident happens that place and surrounding areas will be inhabitable for MANY MANY years. Also think about the biological consequences of the nuclear radition if something were to go wrong.  

Nigeria can eventually go into nuclear tech, but right now does not seem to be the best time. The argument about "we can't even do one yet we want to do another" is very warranted.  Building space satellite will not have the potential to wipe out millions of people and make the area a "no go area" for generations so we should not draw reference to that.

We don't have to wait until nigeria has no poverty before it builds nuclear plant. What I and many others are concerned with is the current crop of leaders we have who will pay no attention to necessary pressing matters, but will only look to fill their pockets. So would make us to believe that necessary regulations and monitoring would take place to ensure safety once the plant is built?   Also, where are we doing to dump the nuclear waste?


If nigeria took care of its oil and gas and we had a good maintenece culture, I don't think people would be as fearful.

So why do you fly in aircraft within Nigeria?

Since our leaders are so ''hopeless and looking to fill their pockets'', why do we still have the confidence to get on an airplane and travel from point A to B within Nigeria, in Nigerian-owned and flown aircraft?

If our government is as useless as you claim, why are planes not crashing every day due to lax maintenance, corner-cutting, corruption, nepotism, bribery in hiring air-traffic controllers, maintenance engineers, pilots etc etc?

Could it be that the system actually WORKS a lot more than conditioned, negativised people like you care to admit?

Since our leaders are so ''hopeless and corrupt'', how do you explain the recent Category One rating granted the Nigerian aviation sector by the United States? (See below)

Do you know many countries in Europe, Asia, and South America are certified below Category One?

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/usa/Butty-Nigeria-Direct-US-Flights-Demuren-24august10-101355434.html

manny4life:

Are you just saying what you know or from experience? I bet nuclear experts from top organizations would disagree with this your found theory.

Its what I know. A simple 2-minute search on google provides some backup, without me going into too much detail.

A childhood friend of mine works in CSR in the UK, and he inspects and classifies nuclear reactors in Europe. We talk about renewable and nonrenewable energy all the time, informally. I did not study his major but we were close enough in school for me to have more than a tenuous grasp of the concepts.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=cleanest+energy+sources&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Men some of you just do not know what the heck you guys are talking about, some think nuclear reaction fallout are moi moi talk.

I was invited to be trained by the Nigerian system with the provision of being bonded for some years, after careful consideration I had to let the opportunity go cause the  truth is I wanted to be a Nuclear Engineer, but have no intention of working in anything 10 KM close to a Nigerian Nuclear Power Plant.

As an Intern, I have witnessed first hand how the Nigerian systems runs and maintains her technical facilities in a  High Capacity NNPC Petroleum PUMP Station in Niger Delta, The Profile is:
1. The Hausa Area Manager had little or no knowledge of what the installations in the  Pump Station was for, talk less of technical knowledge of the facility

2. The Yoruba Technical Manager spends his time attending all the overseas technical trainings that are meant for his junior officers in the fields, comes back to joke about how the white love-peddlers he slept with were scared by the  size of his manliness, and then sends the boys to do the work he trained for without training them.

3. The Igbo officers who only exist in the dirty technical section feels left out and decide on very technical ways to fleece out the system and get to buy the same kind of car as hausas and Yorubas.

4. Then once in a while one White Italian that speaks broken English comes around, meets the Yoruba Manager, they sneak in in the night using their limited technical knowledge, lock up a few valves. In the morning they tell the Area Manager "Sanu"  The system has failed and we need this white man to do an integral and ultra technical overhaul of the pump systems, it will cost 90 million naira only, meanwhile no crude in Kaduna Refinery and no fuel at all northern depots.
The Igbo officers will then be put under fire to repair, after snooping around, see the locked valve, go behind and ask the Yoruba Manager for his own share or else he unlocks the valves. He will usually get his share, I call that the annual profit sharing.

Put that in any Nuclear system and you will get a big BOOM!!!
1. If Nigeria will not organically grow her own Nuclear technology, but import it, bye bye to them O! (How many countries in the world got nuclear technology by direct importation, Naija no go come last now and we must do it in the time of this administration else no credit)

2. Thank God they are thinking of Russia so I know they will not get it (If Russia could not let you have mere steel melting technology, why will they give you nuclear tech are they silly?)    

What ever they are doing they should build it in the ocean o! so that in case of any BOOM or when we will innovatively operate the reactors without radiative shields we will only mutate fishes and create a few sea monsters lol

Stop being negative.

If you have identified process/operational problems, why cancel the entire project? We need cleaner energy than all this gas nonsense we are destroying the environment with.

If ur so scared, let the russians run it for us.

Sorry My Kengali, but you are WRONG.

And your analogy is meaningless.

Whatever happened at your Pump station is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to what is required in a nuclear installation in terms of safety, professionalism, and general standards of operation.

Corruption happens in all the developing nations with nuclear capabilities. Look up Tranparency Intertnational's latest corruption index.  Countries like Pakistan and Russia are ranked more corrupt than Nigeria. But even nations with high corruption know when and where to put a lid on it, and where real professionalism is imperative.

Nigeria is no different.

This is why we still fly around safely and with confidence in Nigerian skies with hundreds of flights across the country each day! We STILL know how to maintain HIGH standards when it's 'absolutely necessary'.

To the point we're now a Category 1 aviation nation, with safety standards comparable to the best anywhere in the world.

Guy am not a negative person, am only being realistic

Nuclear Technology such an international issue that I can assure you that Russia will not even let US have it, talkless of running it for US. For them to agree to that we have to let go of like three or four Juicy Offshore oil acreages to Gazprom  

Ask your self, how many countries in the world run Nuclear Power Plants without local technology. Even Iran, but in Naija we want to import it because we believe we can buy everything.

Let me say it again, If Nigeria buys a nuclear technology they do not understand, it is a recipe for disaster and I believe no right thinking Nuclear Power will export a nuclear power plant to Nigeria! If we want nuclear power plant, we have to put in 20-30 years plan and develop it

ROSSIKE:

Sorry My Kengali, but you are WRONG.

And your analogy is meaningless.

Whatever happened at your Pump station is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to what is required in a nuclear installation in terms of safety, professionalism, and general standards of operation.

Corruption happens in all the developing nations with nuclear capabilities. Look up Tranparency Intertnational's latest corruption index.  Countries like Pakistan and Russia are ranked more corrupt than Nigeria. But even nations with high corruption know when and where to put a lid on it, and where real professionalism is imperative.

Nigeria is no different.

This is why we still fly around safely and with confidence in Nigerian skies with hundreds of flights across the country each day! We STILL know how to maintain HIGH standards when it's 'absolutely necessary'.

If you are right, What happened to your National Carrier? You are talking about Privately owned and operated airlines. Infact if not for the series of Fatal air crashes in the last decade, mere maintenance of airport aviation equipment was a big problem in Nigeria.

KenGali:

Guy am not a negative person, am only being realistic
Nuclear Technology such an international issue that I can assure you that Russia will not even let US have it, talkless of running it for US. For them to agree to that we have to let go of like three or four Juicy Offshore oil acreages to Gazprom  
Ask your self, how many countries in the would run Nuclear Power Plants without locally technology. Even Iran, but in Naija we want to import it because we believe we can buy everything.
Let me say it again, If Nigeria buys a nuclear technology they do not understand, it is a recipe for disaster and I believe no right thinking Nuclear Power will export a nuclear power plant to Nigeria! If we want a nuclear power, we have to put in 20-30 years plan and develop it

Just shut it with these baseless conjectures. Maybe you don't believe in Nigeria and that is making you to come up with these negative reactionary conjectures. An ethnic irredentist concerning himself with technical issues. SMH
In any case the company would be privately owned.

you cannot handle COAL energy,you are battling with CRUDE energy and you want to go NUCLEAR.Is that not a time bomb waiting for explosion?

I wonder Why some people talk like this,
Do U think it is Nigerians that are going to mann the Nuclear palants after the first few years of their completion,
Was it Nigerian Engineers that Controlled the operations of our first oil rigs/Wells, back in the 1960's/70's?  

KenGali:

If you are right, What happened to your National Carrier? You are talking about Privately owned and operated airlines. Infact if not for the series of Fatal air crashes in the last decade, mere maintenance of airport aviation equipment was a big problem in Nigeria.

KENGALI JUST SHUT UP! Do you know how ignorantly negative you sound. If you don't believe in Nigeria then why are you on this thread ?
Shouldn't you be posting in the tribalist section.

ROSSIKE- I love your enthusiasm but a bit of pragmatism would not go amiss. This is not a priority for us.

Ask yourself a better question, if you want a better outcome. As usual, whilst other people are looking for credible and sustainable alternatives Nigerians are scrambling for akpangiri and tokunbo technologies.

Apart from the ridiculously prohibitive costs, it is also an environmentally unsafe technology and provides a big target for all your enemies in terms of national security.

Why invest in nuclear technology when gas flaring has continued unabated for 50 years, did you know that 24 billion cubic meters of gas is flared every year?

Did you know that this amount of gas can power Africa for 1 year?

scholes0:

I wonder Why some people talk like this,
Do U think it is Nigerians that are going to mann the Nuclear palants after the first few years of their completion,
Was it Nigerian Engineers that Controlled the operations of our first oil rigs/Wells, back in the 1960's/70's?  

Maybe he thinks quite senselessly that the FGN have the funds or expertise to even contemplate running this kind of project!
It is strictly a private commercial venture.
However I suspect this offending poster has a more political agenda behind all this puerile spurious scaremongering.

ROSSIKE:

trueword said:

So why do you fly in aircraft within Nigeria?

Since our leaders are so ''hopeless and looking to fill their pockets'', why do we still have the confidence to get on an airplane and travel from point A to B within Nigeria, in Nigerian-owned and flown aircraft?

If our government is as useless as you claim, why are planes not crashing every day due to lax maintenance, corner-cutting, corruption, nepotism, bribery in hiring air-traffic controllers, maintenance engineers, pilots etc etc?

Could it be that the system actually WORKS a lot more than conditioned, negativised people like you care to admit?

Since our leaders are so ''hopeless and corrupt'', how do you explain the recent Category One rating granted the Nigerian aviation sector by the United States? (See below)

Do you know many countries in Europe, Asia, and South America are certified below Category One?

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/usa/Butty-Nigeria-Direct-US-Flights-Demuren-24august10-101355434.html

Stop trying to sugarcoat the problem we have in nigeria. Just look at River Niger bridge. That brige is slated to collapse at any moment, but look at the unserious nature the government is taking the situation. It is after the bridge has fallen that they will then be screaming when they could have a long time ago constructed a new bridge.

Those airlines are privately managed, so they will be more responsible since they want to attact customers and make profit.  

Answer this question. What has a more long term detrimental effect? A mishap with airline or nuclear accident?  We can not put those on same category. All it takes is one nuclear incident and that area and miles around it are finished.  

Let's be serious. Before Nigeria ventures into something that has this potential damage, the government must give us more confidence about their ability to not play around with something like this.

I already know about the category one status. But let's not equate category one status to nuclear plant.

SapeleGuy:

ROSSIKE- I love your enthusiasm but a bit of pragmatism would not go amiss. This is not a priority for us.

Sapele guy do us all a favour and stop posting on development issues since we all know you support the evil bandits operating in the Niger Delta.
What is yor business about a private sector project? Is it your money? You think Nigeria would not  explore other means of generating  energy?

Tensor777 stop insulting yourself, if you have a counter argument state it.


Believing in Nigeria is not by force, nor does it conot ignorance. And may be you missed a bit of my point. I have been following Nigeria's nuclear quest since graduation, the mere location of that Nuclear power plant is already a subject of ethnic rivalry, so imagine how the operation can escape our usual ethinic competitions. Even the training program for the Nuclear Engineers had to conform to zoning and Federal Character.

trueword:

Let's be serious. Before Nigeria ventures into something that has this potential damage, the government must give us more confidence about their ability to not play around with something like this.

I already know about the category one status. But let's not equate category one status to nuclear plant.

You must have an inflated idea of self importance if you think the govt has to convince pessimist like you on the vital importance of this project.
It is private a investment anyway so just shut up and face your own business

^^^^ also stop calling it a private sector project, that one is a dream. Last time I checked nobody said this forum is only for people who believe in Nigeria and all her crazy ways.

I support an organically grown Nuclear Technology pursued aggressively in 20-30 years duration. Which will allow us develop our own way of managing our peculiar risks on small scale before we go to the large scale.

KenGali:

Tensor777 stop insulting yourself, if you have a counter argument state it.


Believing in Nigeria is not by force, nor does it conot ignorance. And may be you missed a bit of my point. I have been following Nigeria's nuclear quest since graduation, the mere location of that Nuclear power plant is already a subject of ethnic rivalry, so imagine how the operation can escape our usual ethinic competitions. Even the training program for the Nuclear Engineers had to conform to zoning and Federal Character.  

That is what concerns you the location of a private company? Such trifles. You think they would recruit based on ethnicity or religion. SMH.
You really are incorrigible.

Sorry do you even read. am telling you that such trivial has been the concern of the people you are trusting to deliver that excellent nuclear power plant and you are ranting. Read first before you comment.

May be I need to say it in simple English: They are recruiting based on ethnicity, thats essentially what Nigeria's Federal Character is all about, whether you apply it to Presidency, Football, Ministers or Jobs

tensor777:

Sapele guy do us all a favour and stop posting on development issues since we all know you support the evil bandits operating in the Niger Delta.
What is yor business about a private sector project? Is it your money? You think Nigeria would not  explore other means of generating  energy?

Reasonable people are not convinced as to why we need to invest in nuclear technology when we are flaring 24 billion cubic metres of gas every year.

In 2008, this same Nigeria signed a deal with Germany to get us Energy. Fast forward 2 years later, Nothing on that deal. I don't understand why Nigeria is desperate to do anything but that which it ought to do.

Haha funny Nigerian administrators,

Ok nuclear energy abi?
So we would have Russian technocrats everywhere and import Uranium or Plutonium to run the reactors that we may in our usual lack of maintenance culture abandon to cause a humongous disaster someday?

Hydroelectricity we haven't optimally utilised.

We let trillion cubic feet of associated natural gas flare yearly in the Niger Delta from crude oil production and we have not thought of harnessing this.

We have quickly forgotten that power generation is just half of the problem. Power transmission is the other half except we have power plants in every metropolis.

Haha funny Nigerian administrators,

Funny Country,
Nuclear Crap ,
This is going to be the worst decision
Nigeria Has taken in it 50 Year of Existences

I am not a fan of  nuclear energy but our reliance on oil and gas will be the real doom. Piping gas over long distances through vandals and hostile territories is equally dangerous.

There is no modern country with purposeful energy plans that does not have a mix of these sources. So why not us.

Westinghouse and Areva may be safer but will certainly be more expensive and thus going by our antecedents will certainly not be completed or shodilly done. The Russians may not be so advanced but they have over fifty years under their belts and we can afford them. I have not heard of any incident in Iran yet or recently in Russia so I think they know what they are doing.

On a lighter note:  1. Where exactly is this Chernobyl. Used to think it was in Ukraine ?.

2.  Who is supplying the International Space Centre today - the Russians. They have a better cost/efficiency balance than the west in certain technologies. Good for poor folks like us. I would prefer to buy a car from a country that has roads like mine. Believe me they are at home with poverty, ineptitude and terror.

3.  The failure of Ajaokuta has nothing to do with Russia. Ask the Swiss bankers for the accounts of IBB, Abacha, Tafida and the forty thieves for your evidence. If a new plant will become a conduit for corruption then we better not start.

4. Nuclear is plug and play. It is more locationally contained. Thus iInfrastructure is much reduced and security can be optimized.

5. I take exception to the thought that the Niger/Delta struggle is mindless. It is for our collective good. I mean what would MEND gain from a nuclear fallout. Which region has suffered most from environmental calamity. This is pathetic reasoning. So oil pollution is better, more acceptable than coal mine explosions or radiation poisoning. N.D. has done its part for our power supply so far. Some other region should take the nuclear challenge and associated risks so they too may ,  feel it. Abi una dey fear.

tensor777:

Sapele guy do us all a favour and stop posting on development issues since we all know you support the evil bandits operating in the Niger Delta.
What is yor business about a private sector project? Is it your money? You think Nigeria would not  explore other means of generating  energy?

Y[b]ou allowed the first boldened part to block your sense of good reasoning that the guy had a salient point[/b] even though we might all have contrary views to all he said. The second boldened part is the reason why the endless looting and glaring waste of resources in this dear country has continued unabated,on a second note you feel the embezzled money is not yours? oh! what a pity. Every achiever needs to set her priorities right and we are no exception to that rule, what is happening to the gas being flayed constantly, or the coal gas been under utilized. All these energy resources sadly in abundance are enough to give us interrupted power supplies rather than delve into something we are not really prepared to sustain. we all dwelling mostly about accidents but am more concerned at the waste being generated cos the disaster of an improper storage is worse than a nuclear accident ( the evidence will be there for everyone to see and take curative measures). Imagine a scenario where improper storage of these waste seeps into underground water sources unnoticed in which case the damage done would be left unimagined.
Just like Kengali replied you, you don't even understand the topic yet you insult at will, to me that is a cheap way of one showing how naive one can get. Think right and abhor this method of throwing insults left, right, and center just to settle old scores with members of the forum

Haba pessimists. We only need to google up the number of nuclear plants worldwide viz the number of incidents. Very few indeed. Some of you sound like that old school daddy that won't let his college son near his car keys. How will the lad grow up. Guys lighten up. When you go nuclear the world pays attention and things change. It imposes its culture, all manner of certifications and inspection regimes to drive you nuts. Heck the IAEA will set up shop right there. And I bet you the first sign of trouble will trigger a global response. Who no fear fear. When you bring a ferocious dog into the neighbourhood people will thread with caution. Ineptitude, nepotism and graft go waka with eye for back. It maybe the one thing that would change the industrial/technological landscape of this country.

KenGali:

Sorry do you even read. am telling you that such trivial has been the concern of the people you are trusting to deliver that excellent nuclear power plant and you are ranting. Read first before you comment.

May be I need to say it in simple English: They are recruiting based on ethnicity, thats essentially what Nigeria's Federal Character is all about, whether you apply it to Presidency, Football, Ministers or  Jobs

Reading is not his objective, maybe you guyz had a brush somewhere in another thread so he is trying hard to take his pound of flesh but it's a shame he chose such a sensitive topic as this to vent his emotions.

SapeleGuy:

Reasonable people are not convinced as to why we need to invest in nuclear technology when we are flaring 24 billion cubic metres of gas every year.

Exactly my concerns bro, our natural gas reserve is so huge to generate whatsoever we need to power and here they are talking nuclear as if they really understand what it means to maintain the facilities and also properly mange the waste that accrues from it. They should go ask the developed countries of the dilemma they are currently facing as to the siting of a nuclear waste storage facility cos of the residence half life period of those wastes in the environment even some lasting for thousands of years and you all think with our developing technology we should also share in those headache

LRNZH:

Haha funny Nigerian administrators,

Ok nuclear energy abi?
So we would have Russian technocrats everywhere and import Uranium or Plutonium to run the reactors that we may in our usual lack of maintenance culture abandon to cause a humongous disaster someday?

Hydroelectricity we haven't optimally utilised.

We let trillion cubic feet of associated natural gas flare yearly in the Niger Delta from crude oil production and we have not thought of harnessing this.

We have quickly forgotten that power generation is just half of the problem. Power transmission is the other half except we have power plants in every metropolis.

Haha funny Nigerian administrators,

Absolutely true bro, the whole episode is just funny

Wait.

Before we argue for too long,

@kengali and his minions.

So what you are saying is that Nigeria is too mediocre to do what is neccesary to pull it out of mediocrity? Doomed by default? Failed forever? Never ever ever to improve? Cursed by God after the flood maybe?

If that is what you are saying, then I'm sorry but whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant. You have decided that we are doomed to failure forever so you may as well not bother contributing to the discussion anymore

The rest of us who do care about progress can then discuss on how best to manage the risks and whether or not it is wise to get it fro the russians and so forth. But if you say we should NOT get it because your weak knees are shaking in your trousers at the mention of the word 'nuclear' then I m sorry but you are contributing NOTHING.

To those who say we should focus on the gas

Well you are correct: we are wasting a valuable resource. This is true.

For Nigeria, gas will surely be cheaper. And quicker to bring to fruition. I would support a gas project being given a higher priority

HOWEVER IN THE LONG TERM generating power from natural gas destroys the environment. You CANNOT attain first world status without the unbelievable efficiency and environment-friendliness of Nuclear. Even if the project takes 15 years to complete, let it begin.

saying we should not do it because you think Nigerians will leak radiation on themselves is just prejudiced and unproductive.