Maximus69:


If you sure wella wella sey NA ME SABI!

Wetin you dey argue again?

When you eat blood, see blood, touch blood accept blood fractions/components and blood transfusion you have not abstained from blood. Your jehovah will still kill you at ur upcoming armageddon.

Hairyrapunzel:

When you eat blood, see blood, touch blood accept blood fractions/components and blood transfusion you have not abstained from blood. Your jehovah will still kill you at ur upcoming armageddon.

WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU SAYING!

Leave the killing aside for now and talk about the instruction, God said abstain from blood, and to do so we try all our possible best to avoid having contact with blood.
If we're to eat an animal, we dig and pour the blood on the ground!
So nobody can ABSTAIN from what you can't SEE, that means when you notice blood, avoid all contact with it!

Maximus69:




WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU SAYING!

Leave the killing aside for now and talk about the instruction, God said abstain from blood, and to do so we try all our possible best to avoid having contact with blood.
If we're to eat an animal, we dig and pour the blood on the ground!
So nobody can ABSTAIN from what you can't SEE, that means when you notice blood, avoid all contact with it!

Is a lie o. Is it everybody that sees fornication? No. To abstain from fornication you cant see it. Therefore to abstain from blood means not seeing it not touching it not eating it not accepting blood fractions/components and blood transfusion cos if you do ur jehovah will slaughter you in armageddon

Maximus69:




WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU SAYING!

Leave the killing aside for now and talk about the instruction, God said abstain from blood, and to do so we try all our possible best to avoid having contact with blood.
If we're to eat an animal, we dig and pour the blood on the ground!
So nobody can ABSTAIN from what you can't SEE, that means when you notice blood, avoid all contact with it!

We must follow the killing o. Is it not the killing that's the cause of the assuming imagination that jehovah says you must obey gb instruction on rejection of blood transfusion?

I hope it's not too late for the baby anyway

Hairyrapunzel:


We must follow the killing o. Is it not the killing that's the cause of the assuming imagination that jehovah says you must obey gb instruction on rejection of blood transfusion?

You shouldn't be scared of the law enforcement agencies carrying destructive weapons.
Only criminals gets overly anxious when hearing or seeing the judiciary.
Likewise if you're not with Pharaoh camp (wicked people disturbing the PEACE of God's people) you have no reason to be scared of crossing through the parted red sea!

From all indication your conscience is judging you Hairyrapunzel, so if your heart is disturbing you about what Jehovah's Witnesses are saying, i'll advise you to go and prostrate yourself before their elders before it's too late. You're always worried about the destruction of the wicked to the point that you wish God never intend killing wicked people.
Repent now before it's too late for you!

Meanwhile from now on i'll stop responding to you because it's obvious you're tormented each time you hear or see Jehovah's Witnesses!

So until you repent of your wicked deeds, i'll say ~

R.I.P Mr Hairyrapunzel!

eyinjuege:
I hope it's not too late for the baby anyway

The deed has been done now!
The child has been infected with more serious and deadly plagues that's hidden from all the scan and other electronic devices man have set up to uncover diseases in human body!
That single act will surely lead to so many illnesses but the parents have themselves to blame for not taking the appropriate channel.

Blood transfusion as introduced by all these self acclaimed health professionals may appeal to inexperienced individuals in the society, but to God's people they can only care, God is the healer of all diseases!

The irony of this is the fact that a member of this same faculty could have acted against the norms of the faculty by infusing blood in a patient whose parents objected to such treatment, whereas the motto of the faculty says "We only care, God heals".

How come the so called professional who administered the blood transfusion now ignores the word of the person their faculty said is the REAL healer (God) is what baffles me now?

For your information, there was a time on this same planet when this same faculty do administer EXCREMENT on people in the process of CARING for them!
Only God's people (Israelites) objected to such treatment.
WHY?
Because it's WRITTEN in the DIVINE laws given to them that excrement is dangerous to human health and so it must be buried! Deuteronomy 23:13

Back then when this self acclaimed HEALTH PROFESSIONALS initiated this form of treatment, all the nations under the heavens embraced it while they all started mocking God's people for sticking to the words of their God!
Today if someone ask you to make use of excrement in any way, i'm sure you'll first contact this same health professionals whose faculty endorsed it back then before doing so!
God's people know what we are saying, and we'll continue to pray for you people perhaps there may be found amongst you honest hearted and sincere ones who will embrace the TRUTH!

Maximus69:


The deed has been done now!
The child has been infected with more serious and deadly plagues that's hidden from all the scan and other electronic devices man have set up to uncover diseases in human body!
That single act will surely lead to so many illnesses but the parents have themselves to blame for not taking the appropriate channel.

Blood transfusion as introduced by all these self acclaimed health professionals may appeal to inexperienced individuals in the society, but to God's people they can only care, God is the healer of all diseases!

The irony of this is the fact that a member of this same faculty could have acted against the norms of the faculty by infusing blood in a patient whose parents objected to such treatment, whereas the motto of the faculty says "We only care, God heals".

How come the so called professional who administered the blood transfusion now ignores the word of the person their faculty said is the REAL healer (God) is what baffles me now?

For your information, there was a time on this same planet when this same faculty do administer EXCREMENT on people in the process of CARING for them!
Only God's people (Israelites) objected to such treatment.
WHY?
Because it's WRITTEN in the DIVINE laws given to them that excrement is dangerous to human health and so it must be buried! Deuteronomy 23:13

Back then when this self acclaimed HEALTH PROFESSIONALS initiated this form of treatment, all the nations under the heavens embraced it while they all started mocking God's people for sticking to the words of their God!
Today if someone ask you to make use of excrement in any way, i'm sure you'll first contact this same health professionals whose faculty endorsed it back then before doing so!
God's people know what we are saying, and we'll continue to pray for you people perhaps there may be found amongst you honest hearted and sincere ones who will embrace the TRUTH!

I'm not with you on this one.
This is a child, and I believe the right decision was taken for him.
I normally support the right of anyone to refuse treatment if such a person isn't a child and has capacity to make such a decision.
Severe jaundice may need exchange blood transfusion, and that's why I said hope it's not too late for the child. The delay it took to get the child from its parents may make the child a vegetable for life, as jaundice damages the brain the higher the level and he longer is allowed in the blood hence my statement "hope it's not too late for the child"
The parents should have not been allowed to leave the hospital with the child.

eyinjuege:


I'm not with you on this one.
This is a child, and I believe the right decision was taken for him.
I normally support the right of anyone to refuse treatment if such a person isn't a child and has capacity to make such a decision.
Severe jaundice may need exchange blood transfusion, and that's why I said hope it's not too late for the child. The delay it took to get the child from its parents may make the child a vegetable for life, as jaundice damages the brain the higher the level and he longer is allowed in the blood hence my statement "hope it's not too late for the child"
The parents should have not been allowed to leave the hospital with the child.

Please if a child is infected with brain damaging virus, is your government capable of taking care of such a person throughout his/her life?

Isn't it going to be left for the parents to live with the injury for life?

There are thousands of insanes in our society, and the only people who TRULY CARES is their relations. Your government has done NOTHING to help in the case of mad people walking about nakedly in our society.

So if the parents (who TRULY CARES and will continue to love and care for their own babies as long as they live) say "we know of a better form of treatment".
It's gross misconduct on the part of any other party (most especially useless, hopeless and helpless society like we found ourselves) to force their own treatment on the child!

Remember they'll abandon the child for this same parents if things go wrong afterwards, whereas the parents who INTENTIONALLY brought their baby for care will continue to CARE for their baby!

Maximus69:


Please if a child is infected with brain damaging virus, is your government capable of taking care of such a person throughout his/her life?

Isn't it going to be left for the parents to live with the injury for life?

There are thousands of insanes in our society, and the only people who TRULY CARES is their relations. Your government has done NOTHING to help in the case of mad people walking about nakedly in our society.

So if the parents (who TRULY CARES and will continue to love and care for their own babies as long as they live) say "we know of a better form of treatment".
It's gross misconduct on the part of any other party (most especially useless, hopeless and helpless society like we found ourselves) to force their own treatment on the child!

Remember they'll abandon the child for this same parents if things go wrong afterwards, whereas the parents who INTENTIONALLY brought their baby for care will continue to CARE for their baby!

Children with severe neonatal jaundice have been successfully treated in Nigeria with exchange blood transfusion. It's not a new advancement in medicine and doesn't need high falloting skills, so it was definitely the right thing to do in this case.
The child has been given a chance at a high quality of life than the parents decision would have given it.

eyinjuege:


Children with severe neonatal jaundice have been successfully treated in Nigeria with exchange blood transfusion. It's not a new advancement in medicine and doesn't need high falloting skills, so it was definitely the right thing to do in this case.
The child has been given a chance at a high quality of life than the parents decision would have given it.

You are talking from the view point of what this so called health professionals are telling you, but the child's parents are talking from past EXPERIENCE regarding incidents of this nature! Proverbs 23:3

When you're talking of SUCCESS in any event, you only view issues from what happened at the Hospital and how the patient fared immediately after such treatment has been carried out!

But when we talk of SUCCESS, we are looking at the aftermath of such form of treatment in later times.
For instance, when God says fornication is a sin.

It simply means fornicators WON'T SUCCEED!

But is it immediately when a young man and a young lady engaged in SEX that God is saying?
Of course not!
They may SUCCESSFULLY enjoy SEX multiple times without contacting any disease, but nemesis will catch up with them when they begin planning for a SUCCESSFUL MARRIAGE!

99.9% of unsuccessfully marriages today is as a result of fornication (casual sex between unmarried mates). What do you think is giving rise to the number of baby mamas and baby daddies in our society today?

SUCCESS from God's viewpoint totally differs from what you're thinking! Isaiah 55:8-9

Lots of deadly diseases plaguing mankind today comes from ignoring divine counsel, yet it took longer time before the results comes out!

You might have witnessed countless SUCCESS of blood transfusion, but do you take the time to study CAREFULLY how these people fared in later times when they later get sick again?

For your information, the World Health Organization (W.H.O) NEVER endorsed blood transfusion as a PERFECT means of recovery from shortage of blood!

So the license of any health professional who forcefully administer blood transfusion on any patient can be revoked!

Maximus69:


You shouldn't be scared of the law enforcement agencies carrying destructive weapons.
Only criminals gets overly anxious when hearing or seeing the judiciary.
Likewise if you're not with Pharaoh camp (wicked people disturbing the PEACE of God's people) you have no reason to be scared of crossing through the parted red sea!

From all indication your conscience is judging you Hairyrapunzel, so if your heart is disturbing you about what Jehovah's Witnesses are saying, i'll advise you to go and prostrate yourself before their elders before it's too late. You're always worried about the destruction of the wicked to the point that you wish God never intend killing wicked people.
Repent now before it's too late for you!

Meanwhile from now on i'll stop responding to you because it's obvious you're tormented each time you hear or see Jehovah's Witnesses!

So until you repent of your wicked deeds, i'll say ~

R.I.P Mr Hairyrapunzel!

Why are you scared your jehovah will murder/slaughter/kill you?
Lol.

Maximus69, while you're entitled to your beliefs, when it comes to children certain decisions is made in their best interests.
I'm not interested in arguments on blood transfusions as I know we can never agree on it, and I do respect your beliefs and opinions on it.
You do know it is standard practice worldwide what has just happened to that child. It's not going to be the first case in Nigeria, and it won't be the last. Such cases also occur a lot abroad where the Jehova witness assembly originated from and children that need blood are tranfused whether the parents agree or not..
Perhaps you could do a bit of research and let us know what your church does when such decisions are taken abroad?
What kind of support does your church offer to the families of children transfused? Are such children not allowed back into your fold and the parents have to leave your church? Are such families ostracised? What is usually the way forward for such families?
Pls kindly find out and let me know. Thanks

Maximus69:


You might have witnessed countless SUCCESS of blood transfusion, but do you take the time to study CAREFULLY how these people fared in later times when they later get sick again?

For your information, the World Health Organization (W.H.O) NEVER endorsed blood transfusion as a PERFECT means of recovery from shortage of blood!

So the license of any health professional who forcefully administer blood transfusion on any patient can be revoked!

The licence of those who transfuse a child despite objections from the parents cannot be revoked as they are legally backed by law. Of course they must have taken the necessary steps and informed the necessary authorities as was done in this case. The difference between a child and an adult is capacity and the ability to make informed decisions on the issue of blood transfusion. Since children lack the capacity to make certain decisions, it is made for them by their parents and if parents make decisions that will jeopardise the life or health of such a child, the power is taken away from the parents.
I have benefited from blood transfusion several years ago. About 6 or so years ago. I was given 4 bags of blood and that saved my life. No 2 ways about it. I would have died and my parents left one child less and my children motherless. I am always grateful for another chance at life I was given. I am not Jehova Witness btw.
I am doing extremely well health wise with no issues whatsoever. I am more afraid of having a stroke or a heart attack than I am of having any long term complication from the blood transfusion I had.
Oh, lest I forget, I had a mild complication with blood transfusion while on the last bag whereby I had a fever whilst being transfused, but simple paracetamol was enough to sort me out. Blood transfusions may not be perfect, but the benefits far outweighs the risks. Always...
With the advancement in science, serious transfusion reactions are very RARE. So there's no argument that you can ever bring against blood transfusion that will hold any water.
If in terms of religious beliefs, you can hold on tight to your beliefs. However, don't bother telling us that there are better alternatives to blood transfusion, as there is non ( I also know about transfusing your own blood back to you when you need it during an operation).
Anyways, I asked some questions earlier about the support you guys have in place for parents faced with such ethical dilemmas . Pls answer

eyinjuege:

The licence of those who transfuse a child despite objections from the parents cannot be revoked as they are legally backed by law. Of course they must have taken the necessary steps and informed the necessary authorities as was done in this case. The difference between a child and an adult is capacity and the ability to make informed decisions on the issue of blood transfusion. Since children lack the capacity to make certain decisions, it is made for them by their parents and if parents make decisions that will jeopardise the life or health of such a child, the power is taken away from the parents.
I have benefited from blood transfusion several years ago. About 6 or so years ago. I was given 4 bags of blood and that saved my life. No 2 ways about it. I would have died and my parents left one child less and my children motherless. I am always grateful for another chance at life I was given. I am not Jehova Witness btw.
I am doing extremely well health wise with no issues whatsoever. I am more afraid of having a stroke or a heart attack than I am of having any long term complication from the blood transfusion I had.
Oh, lest I forget, I had a mild complication with blood transfusion while on the last bag whereby I had a fever whilst being transfused, but simple paracetamol was enough to sort me out. Blood transfusions may not be perfect, but the benefits far outweighs the risks. Always...
With the advancement in science, serious transfusion reactions are very RARE. So there's no argument that you can ever bring against blood transfusion that will hold any water.
If in terms of religious beliefs, you can hold on tight to your beliefs. However, don't bother telling us that there are better alternatives to blood transfusion, as there is non ( I also know about transfusing your own blood back to you when you need it during an operation).
Anyways, I asked some questions earlier about the support you guys have in place for parents faced with such ethical dilemmas . Pls answer

You are saying things that you don't know, yet you are stylishly arguing as if you have the knowledge!

First of all i want you to know that throughout the earth (in advanced countries) Jehovah's Witnesses and our beliefs are highly regarded!

You can NEVER hear such like what happened in Nigeria, because they are far far advanced than your quack doctors. They know so many ALTERNATIVES to boost the blood in your body, and we have health professionals in our midst that's called Hospital Liaison Committee (HLC).
They're going about from one hospital to another to educate health professionals on alternative bloodless forms of treatment.
As for our organization, nobody does anything to anyone for accepting or refusing blood transfusion, it's just for the benefit of adherents!
What you people think is that members of the organization are forced to live by the rules, but each member dedicated himself to live by the rules after thoroughly studying the Bible to gain knowledge.
Apostle Paul listed 9 qualities of God's holy spirit in the Bible book of Galatians 5:22-23, FAITH is one of it.
It's the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that is invisible {Hebrew 11:1} and it's not a possession of all kinds of people! 2Thessalonians 3:2

So if you don't value FAITH, why not leave those whose FAITH is working? James 2:18-26

eyinjuege:
Maximus69, while you're entitled to your beliefs, when it comes to children certain decisions is made in their best interests.
I'm not interested in arguments on blood transfusions as I know we can never agree on it, and I do respect your beliefs and opinions on it.
You do know it is standard practice worldwide what has just happened to that child. It's not going to be the first case in Nigeria, and it won't be the last. Such cases also occur a lot abroad where the Jehova witness assembly originated from and children that need blood are tranfused whether the parents agree or not..
Perhaps you could do a bit of research and let us know what your church does when such decisions are taken abroad?
What kind of support does your church offer to the families of children transfused? Are such children not allowed back into your fold and the parents have to leave your church? Are such families ostracised? What is usually the way forward for such families?
Pls kindly find out and let me know. Thanks

******1)
In other climes, where the child,( legally termed a 'minor' ) is able to speak for him/herself, the Trial Judge allows the child to give testimony, which the Court takes into cognizance & often determines the judgment on the Court on the issue.


******@2.
Would you ostracise a family member who was violated ?
No child or JW family is ostracised when the court violates their Rights and enforce transfusions of blood.
We offer counsel spiritual and emotional support. JWs are very supportive to any JW family in such unfortunate circumstances..
Galatians 6:10.

When JWs refuse blood transfusions, we insist & desire our right to alternative blood transfusions treatment to be granted and implemented by medical practitioners.
If one hospital rejects our request , it's within our Rights to seek medical treatment elsewhere there in our request is granted.

eyinjuege:

The licence of those who transfuse a child despite objections from the parents cannot be revoked as they are legally backed by law. Of course they must have taken the necessary steps and informed the necessary authorities as was done in this case. The difference between a child and an adult is capacity and the ability to make informed decisions on the issue of blood transfusion. Since children lack the capacity to make certain decisions, it is made for them by their parents and if parents make decisions that will jeopardise the life or health of such a child, the power is taken away from the parents.
I have benefited from blood transfusion several years ago. About 6 or so years ago. I was given 4 bags of blood and that saved my life. No 2 ways about it. I would have died and my parents left one child less and my children motherless. I am always grateful for another chance at life I was given. I am not Jehova Witness btw.
I am doing extremely well health wise with no issues whatsoever. I am more afraid of having a stroke or a heart attack than I am of having any long term complication from the blood transfusion I had.
Oh, lest I forget, I had a mild complication with blood transfusion while on the last bag whereby I had a fever whilst being transfused, but simple paracetamol was enough to sort me out. Blood transfusions may not be perfect, but the benefits far outweighs the risks. Always...
With the advancement in science, serious transfusion reactions are very RARE. So there's no argument that you can ever bring against blood transfusion that will hold any water.
If in terms of religious beliefs, you can hold on tight to your beliefs. However, don't bother telling us that there are better alternatives to blood transfusion, as there is non ( I also know about transfusing your own blood back to you when you need it during an operation).
Anyways, I asked some questions earlier about the support you guys have in place for parents faced with such ethical dilemmas . Pls answer

There are other result oriented alternative to blood transfusions, that is what the JW parents wanted & requested for...
They loved their child as every parent would.
**************
According to a medical journal:
"Concurrently the
search for effective alternatives to blood and
blood product transfusion should earnestly
be pursued for children and adults alike. If a
procedure classically considered as bloody
as ever, a liver transplantation can be
preformed without transfusing red blood
cells <|[31]|> , then certainly many
procedures typically thought to require
transfusion can be reexamined.
To that end, erythropoietin has been used in
burn victims <|[32]|> and others in concert
with other prudent measures such as
prudent blood drawing for testing and the
use of tourniquets for control of bleeding
during the harvest of skin grafts. Another
recent useful adjunct for the burn victim, and
particularly the burned child is the use of
fibrin glue when placing and harvesting skin
grafts <|[33]|> , significantly decreasing the
amount of blood required.
MISCELLANEOUS
Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation
(ECMO) pioneered by Doctor Robert Bartlet
of Michigan, found its greatest applicability
in the therapy of neonates with pulmonary
hypoplasia and persistent pulmonary
hypertension. In this category the incidence
of congenital diaphragmatic hernia was
most frequently seen. As with classic
cardiopulmonary bypass, blood and blood
products were frequently employed <|[34]|> .
In addition, the prolonged use of an
extracorporeal circuit in these patients led to
a high incidence of clotting disturbances <|
[35]|> . Lately ECMO has diminished in the
frequency of its use with alternative
ventilatory techniques gaining favor. Yet
there remains a role for ECMO especially in
selected neonates with diaphragmatic
hernia, and so it is prudent to search for
ways to decrease bleeding and need for
transfusion in such babies <|[36]|> .
CONCLUSIONS
As in many fields of medical endeavor,
pediatric surgery has kept pace with the
increasing realization of the shifting burden-
benefit calculus in the transfusion of blood
and blood products. The unique problems of
the tiny premature neonate whose blood
volume may only be eight teaspoons are
formidable. Yet an open mind to the
alternatives and options in the use or non-
use of blood and blood products is an
essential attitude for the modern practitioner
in this field."
Appendix:
References
1. Hall TL et al. Neonatal mortality following
transfusion of red cells with high plasma
potassium levels. Transfusion, 1993; 33 (7):
p. 606-609.

https://www.nataonline.com/node/450


http://bloodless.com.br/optionsalternatives-to-blood-transfusions/

eyinjuege:


I'm not with you on this one.
This is a child, and I believe the right decision was taken for him.
I normally support the right of anyone to refuse treatment if such a person isn't a child and has capacity to make such a decision.
Severe jaundice may need exchange blood transfusion, and that's why I said hope it's not too late for the child.

eyinjuege post:
" Severe jaundice may need exchange blood transfusion,"
You're being speculative...
The child's parents insisted on other life saving forms of medical treatment other than BT..
It's not a crime to prefer Option A over Option B ,C,or D.
****************
The Government officials and the medical staff were simply overzealous..
With better communication and cooperation with the hospital authorities, BT wouldn't have been necessary.
Our HLC would have stepped in & managed the situation very well without recourse to the Courts.


https://www.nataonline.com/node/450

"The unique problems of
the tiny premature neonate whose blood
volume may only be eight teaspoons are
formidable. Yet an open mind to the
alternatives and options in the use or non-
use of blood and blood products is an
essential attitude for the modern practitioner
in this field."
************
Very true....

Janosky:


There are other result oriented alternative to blood transfusions, that is what the JW parents wanted & requested for...
They loved their child as every parent would.
**************
According to a medical journal:
"Concurrently the
search for effective alternatives to blood and
blood product transfusion should earnestly
be pursued for children and adults alike. If a
procedure classically considered as bloody
as ever, a liver transplantation can be
preformed without transfusing red blood
cells <|[31]|> , then certainly many
procedures typically thought to require
transfusion can be reexamined.
To that end, erythropoietin has been used in
burn victims <|[32]|> and others in concert
with other prudent measures such as
prudent blood drawing for testing and the
use of tourniquets for control of bleeding
during the harvest of skin grafts. Another
recent useful adjunct for the burn victim, and
particularly the burned child is the use of
fibrin glue when placing and harvesting skin
grafts <|[33]|> , significantly decreasing the
amount of blood required.
MISCELLANEOUS
Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation
(ECMO) pioneered by Doctor Robert Bartlet
of Michigan, found its greatest applicability
in the therapy of neonates with pulmonary
hypoplasia and persistent pulmonary
hypertension. In this category the incidence
of congenital diaphragmatic hernia was
most frequently seen. As with classic
cardiopulmonary bypass, blood and blood
products were frequently employed <|[34]|> .
In addition, the prolonged use of an
extracorporeal circuit in these patients led to
a high incidence of clotting disturbances <|
[35]|> . Lately ECMO has diminished in the
frequency of its use with alternative
ventilatory techniques gaining favor. Yet
there remains a role for ECMO especially in
selected neonates with diaphragmatic
hernia, and so it is prudent to search for
ways to decrease bleeding and need for
transfusion in such babies <|[36]|> .
CONCLUSIONS
As in many fields of medical endeavor,
pediatric surgery has kept pace with the
increasing realization of the shifting burden-
benefit calculus in the transfusion of blood
and blood products. The unique problems of
the tiny premature neonate whose blood
volume may only be eight teaspoons are
formidable. Yet an open mind to the
alternatives and options in the use or non-
use of blood and blood products is an
essential attitude for the modern practitioner
in this field."
Appendix:
References
1. Hall TL et al. Neonatal mortality following
transfusion of red cells with high plasma
potassium levels. Transfusion, 1993; 33 (7):
p. 606-609.

https://www.nataonline.com/node/450


http://bloodless.com.br/optionsalternatives-to-blood-transfusions/

So jw say procedure for cold cases should be used for emergency cases. They like to kill their children sha.

Janosky:


******1)
In other climes, where the child,( legally termed a 'minor' ) is able to speak for him/herself, the Trial Judge allows the child to give testimony, which the Court takes into cognizance & often determines the judgment on the Court on the issue.


******@2.
Would you ostracise a family member who was violated ?
No child or JW family is ostracised when the court violates their Rights and enforce transfusions of blood.
We offer counsel spiritual and emotional support. JWs are very supportive to any JW family in such unfortunate circumstances..
Galatians 6:10.

When JWs refuse blood transfusions, we insist & desire our right to alternative blood transfusions treatment to be granted and implemented by medical practitioners.
If one hospital rejects our request , it's within our Rights to seek medical treatment elsewhere there in our request is granted.

Neonate 0-28 days old is now able to speak for himself/herself? Every excuse and explanation to justify killing their babies and frowning on abortion. Baby killers

Janosky:

eyinjuege post:
" Severe jaundice may need exchange blood transfusion,"
You're being speculative...
The child's parents insisted on other life saving forms of medical treatment other than BT..
It's not a crime to prefer Option A over Option B ,C,or D.
****************
The Government officials and the medical staff were simply overzealous..
With better communication and cooperation with the hospital authorities, BT wouldn't have been necessary.
Our HLC would have stepped in & managed the situation very well without recourse to the Courts.


https://www.nataonline.com/node/450

"The unique problems of
the tiny premature neonate whose blood
volume may only be eight teaspoons are
formidable. Yet an open mind to the
alternatives and options in the use or non-
use of blood and blood products is an
essential attitude for the modern practitioner
in this field."
************
Very true....

Why are you leaving a link for a paediatric surgical write up for us? The premature child had jaundice at birth, and it wasn't weeks after birth for us to think it had anything to do with surgeons. It's simply a pure paediatric case.
Your link is talking about perioperative conditions and blood transfusion.
Are you a paediatrician? If you're not, then kindly do not make any uninformed opinion on this matter, and stop doing GIGO for us here.
There was nothing overzealous about what the government officials did and they were not quick enough in getting that child away from it's parents. Every hospital should have a standard operating procedure in place for such cases where parents want to kill their underage children either by omission or commission.
. They should never have allowed the parents step out of the hospital with that child in the first place and the police should have been waiting by the hospital door
If you are a pediatrician who's a Jehovah witness, then we can talk on why other non blood products wasn't an option for this child.
Thank you.

I will educate you a bit further on jaundice in newborns. Jaundice is simply the presence of high levels of bilirubin- a yellow pigment in the blood. These pigments may form for a load of reasons- either the liver is having trouble doing its job or the child's red blood cells are breaking down and producing bilirubin.
Now, in such young children, bilirubin can go directly to the brain and cause permanent damage hence the child will grow up an slowpoke.
When they start talking of blood transfusion in a jaundiced child, the worry isn't just the anemia (which may not even be present) , but the jaundice/bilirubin.
Now some jaundice responds to photo therapy, but some dont and keeps on getting higher. It gets high to a level the Drs want to remove all the blood containing bilirubin in the child and replace it with blood not having bilirubin. You kill 2 birds with one stone in this case, you remove the bad bilirubin blood in the child and you also take care of any lingering anemia in the child by replacing such blood via transfusion.
While people are trying to research for alternatives, I completely agree with the procedure of blood transfusion for anyone that needs it. Until science has advanced enough for us to avoid blood transfusion, we continue with it.

Janosky:


******1)
In other climes, where the child,( legally termed a 'minor' ) is able to speak for him/herself, the Trial Judge allows the child to give testimony, which the Court takes into cognizance & often determines the judgment on the Court on the issue

In other climes, minors (usually younger than 17 or so) cannot make that decision to refuse blood, and they're not taken to any judge to decide any nonsense. Stop speaking what you do not know. Infact, the law is designed in such a way the child is only allowed to accept treatment and not refuse it.
In other climes, they have procedures in place in hospitals for parents that refuse emergency treatment including blood transfusion for their children. The courts long gave the powers to professionals to make that decision for the child and all necessary paper work is done and dusted within a few minutes.
They understand the need to avoid delays in emergency situations. That's why I even blamed the hospital for wasting so much time, and for not having such procedures in place in the first instance.
As I mentioned earlier, I have no issues with JWs exercising their rights to refuse any form of treatment. Afterall you're not stupid and you are entitled to your own beliefs and preferences. However in children, you simply have no rights legally to makes such a decision of refusing life saving treatment for them
As per your HLC going around to educate hospital staff on alternatives to blood transfusion, they can do better. It's better you go to medical schools worldwide and change their curriculum instead of telling hospital staff to do what hasn't been proscribed. (That's a sure way to lose your licence by withholding blood transfusion in a child that needs it).
If your teachings are not accepted by competent professional peers in the field, then kindly spare us the theatrics.

eyinjuege:


In other climes, minors (usually younger than 17 or so) cannot make that decision to refuse blood, and they're not taken to any judge to decide any nonsense. Stop speaking what you do not know. Infact, the law is designed in such a way the child is only allowed to accept treatment and not refuse it.
In other climes, they have procedures in place in hospitals for parents that refuse emergency treatment including blood transfusion for their children. The courts long gave the powers to professionals to make that decision for the child and all necessary paper work is done and dusted within a few minutes.
They understand the need to avoid delays in emergency situations. That's why I even blamed the hospital for wasting so much time, and for not having such procedures in place in the first instance.
As I mentioned earlier, I have no issues with JWs exercising their rights to refuse any form of treatment. Afterall you're not stupid and you are entitled to your own beliefs and preferences. However in children, you simply have no rights legally to makes such a decision of refusing life saving treatment for them
As per your HLC going around to educate hospital staff on alternatives to blood transfusion, they can do better. It's better you go to medical schools worldwide and change their curriculum instead of telling hospital staff to do what hasn't been proscribed. (That's a sure way to lose your licence by withholding blood transfusion in a child that needs it).
If your teachings are not accepted by competent professional peers in the field, then kindly spare us the theatrics.

You want to base your argument on what the law says, and we understand you perfectly. But it'll be better you reason with us to reach a conclusion that not biased.

This is Nigeria where most obsolete things are still put to use due to the corrupt system and economic condition we find ourselves. In any field you can think of, Nigeria is still above three decades behind. This blood transfusion thing was introduced and when other advanced technologies came, others upgraded but you're living in a country where such is not the case.

And regarding school curriculum on what self acclaimed professors have agreed upon.
My friend, it's because you're just focused on predetermined argument against Jehovah's Witnesses that you find it really difficult to see things as they're sincerely speaking.
I told you that there was a time on this same planet when SCHOOLS WERE TAUGHT TO MAKE USE OF EXCREMENT AS A MEANS OF TREATMENT, Only the Israelites stood against such form of treatment!
Please do you think it will be appropriate for the Israelites (who were hated globally due to their laws) to go to schools established by those who have no regard for divine wisdom with the intention of CHANGING their curriculum?

In the same way you can't expect Jehovah's Witnesses to approach those professors with the intention of TEACHING them what they strongly believe they knew more than anyone else. But we can only reason with them by introducing bloodless forms of treatment with the intention to lessen the COST. In that way they'll listen since they also want to GAIN. Whereas our motive is to obey the life saving instruction we fully understood.

In this side of the world, so called professional is targeting profit because the government is not making things easy for them, so they'll prefer you BUY BLOOD than listen to what won't bring them instant gain, unlike their counterpart in advanced countries that will start making research on how to get the best and cheapest alternative, an average Nigerian will tell you that you're going to die if you don't buy blood!

Maximus69:


You want to base your argument on what the law says, and we understand you perfectly. But it'll be better you reason with us to reach a conclusion that not biased.

This is Nigeria where most obsolete things are still put to use due to the corrupt system and economic condition we find ourselves. In any field you can think of, Nigeria is still above three decades behind. This blood transfusion thing was introduced and when other advanced technologies came, others upgraded but you're living in a country where such is not the case.

And regarding school curriculum on what self acclaimed professors have agreed upon.
My friend, it's because you're just focused on predetermined argument against Jehovah's Witnesses that you find it really difficult to see things as they're sincerely speaking.
I told you that there was a time on this same planet when SCHOOLS WERE TAUGHT TO MAKE USE OF EXCREMENT AS A MEANS OF TREATMENT, Only the Israelites stood against such form of treatment!
Please do you think it will be appropriate for the Israelites (who were hated globally due to their laws) to go to schools established by those who have no regard for divine wisdom with the intention of CHANGING their curriculum?

In the same way you can't expect Jehovah's Witnesses to approach those professors with the intention of TEACHING them what they strongly believe they knew more than anyone else. But we can only reason with them by introducing bloodless forms of treatment with the intention to lessen the COST. In that way they'll listen since they also want to GAIN. Whereas our motive is to obey the life saving instruction we fully understood.

In this side of the world, so called professional is targeting profit because the government is not making things easy for them, so they'll prefer you BUY BLOOD than listen to what won't bring them instant gain, unlike their counterpart in advanced countries that will start making research on how to get the best and cheapest alternative, an average Nigerian will tell you that you're going to die if you don't buy blood!

If you have little faith in Nigerian healthcare system, how about in the abroad? Same thing is obtainable abroad, and I bet you that child would still have been transfused abroad. What do you have to say about that?

Janosky:


******1)
In other climes, where the child,( legally termed a 'minor' ) is able to speak for him/herself, the Trial Judge allows the child to give testimony, which the Court takes into cognizance & often determines the judgment on the Court on the issue.


******@2.
Would you ostracise a family member who was violated ?
No child or JW family is ostracised when the court violates their Rights and enforce transfusions of blood.
We offer counsel spiritual and emotional support. JWs are very supportive to any JW family in such unfortunate circumstances..
Galatians 6:10.

When JWs refuse blood transfusions, we insist & desire our right to alternative blood transfusions treatment to be granted and implemented by medical practitioners.
If one hospital rejects our request , it's within our Rights to seek medical treatment elsewhere there in our request is granted.

They just want to argue to prove God's people wrong when they don't even have 1% of the knowledge JEHOVAH has given his people!

They don't know why their religious leaders are labeling us as CULT GROUP.
After seeing that Jehovah's Witnesses are ahead when it comes to wisdom in all Fields, be it ©Organization
©Education
©Health
©Law
©Morals
©Security
©Orderliness
©Cleanliness
©Science
©Efficacious Scriptural counsels
©QUALITATIVE WAR STRATEGIES and so on
And yet we are neither students in any of those field but only concentrate on studying the scriptures. Their religious leaders are baffled!

eyinjuege:


If you have little faith in Nigerian healthcare system, how about in the abroad? Same thing is obtainable abroad, and I bet you that child would still have been transfused abroad. What do you have to say about that?

You want to bet on what you don't know!

My friend, don't forget that Jehovah's Witnesses Organization is not your Churches that will tell you "don't wear earrings, trousers, make ups, wave on" here in Nigeria but will get to California and start sacred services with people who do all these things, whereas back home they'll still hold firmly to what they told you as if that's the norms everywhere!

Jehovah's Witnesses globally believe the same thing, in America (world's no 1 nation) our people are know and highly respected with our beliefs!

So before we go to any hospital in those advanced countries, we will have made our beliefs known to them and the health professionals there respects us!

Serena Williams was born by a JW family, but she's not a JW because of her love for fame. When she had complications during childbirth, blood transfusion was suggested, that's when she remembered what her family uphold. She was treated without blood transfusion, but the news spread. WHY?
Because antagonists wants to create tension, yet Serena is not a child but ADULT!

Maximus69:


You want to bet on what you don't know!

My friend, don't forget that Jehovah's Witnesses Organization is not your Churches that will tell you "don't wear earrings, trousers, make ups, wave on" here in Nigeria but will get to California and start sacred services with people who do all these things, whereas back home they'll still hold firmly to what they told you as if that's the norms everywhere!

Jehovah's Witnesses globally believe the same thing, in America (world's no 1 nation) our people are know and highly respected with our beliefs!

So before we go to any hospital in those advanced countries, we will have made our beliefs known to them and the health professionals there respects us!

Serena Williams was born by a JW family, but she's not a JW because of her love for fame. When she had complications during childbirth, blood transfusion was suggested, that's when she remembered what her family uphold. She was treated without blood transfusion, but the news spread. WHY?
Because antagonists wants to create tension, yet Serena is not a child but ADULT!

You are either trying to be purposefully obtuse or just plain ignorant.
A JW child that needs transfusion abroad will be transfused. Simple as ABC.
Why are you disparaging other church's beliefs and you expect yours to be respected? JW and their beliefs on blood transfusion are not respected one bit abroad, they are mainly seen as loonies even in America, and enough eye rolls in their hospitals when they see one of you.
I remember the thread where I supported Serena's beliefs as a JW and I know you remember me from same thread because you and hairyrapunzel both thought I was JW despite saying I am not. I maintained my stand then despite having benefitted from transfusion in the past because I chose to respect other people's choices.
Serena's case never needed transfusion by the way. She suffered from blood clots in the lungs, which was the main problem she had following her operation. If she had been bleeding profusely after birth for example and the bleeding difficult to stop, then we can be talking about needing transfusion. Not all medical/surgical cases need transfusion, and Drs don't transfuse on the whim. It's a serious clinical decision made to transfuse a patient after much deliberations..Nobody will transfuse you if you need just 1 bag of blood. Your body will easily make it up with time. However, if you're ill enough to need 2 bags or more, then your body will likely be overwhelmed. Anybody that needs just 1 bag of blood doesn't need transfusion.

For those interested, This article could shed some light on what the West thinks about necessary medical treatments including blood transfusion in children despite the objections of their parents

https://adc.bmj.com/content/90/7/715

eyinjuege:


You are either trying to be purposefully obtuse or just plain ignorant.
A JW child that needs transfusion abroad will be transfused. Simple as ABC.
Why are you disparaging other church's beliefs and you expect yours to be respected? JW and their beliefs on blood transfusion are not respected one bit abroad, they are mainly seen as loonies even in America, and enough eye rolls in their hospitals when they see one of you.
I remember the thread where I supported Serena's beliefs as a JW and I know you remember me from same thread because you and hairyrapunzel both thought I was JW despite saying I am not. I maintained my stand then despite having benefitted from transfusion in the past because I chose to respect other people's choices.
Serena's case never needed transfusion by the way. She suffered from blood clots in the lungs, which was the main problem she had following her operation. If she had been bleeding profusely after birth for example and the bleeding difficult to stop, then we can be talking about needing transfusion. Not all medical/surgical cases need transfusion, and Drs don't transfuse on the whim. It's a serious clinical decision made to transfuse a patient after much deliberations..Nobody will transfuse you if you need just 1 bag of blood. Your body will easily make it up with time. However, if you're ill enough to need 2 bags or more, then your body will likely be overwhelmed. Anybody that needs just 1 bag of blood doesn't need transfusion.

For those interested, This article could shed some light on what the West thinks about necessary medical treatments including blood transfusion in children despite the objections of their parents

https://adc.bmj.com/content/90/7/715

Now i know you're not sincere with your argument!

If Serena's case (handled in the best hospitals on this planet) is not that serious, then what brought about the blood transfusion saga?
I told you that it's antagonists who just feel like spiting Jehovah's Witnesses that often create unnecessary tension with rumours!
And as for BELIEF, do you know of any religion claiming Christians with any form of unique belief?
Come on, all of you just worship anywhere you find yourselves, and whatever is accepted generally in the society is your norms!

So how do you expect people having FAITH to take you serious when there is virtually NOTHING you truthfully believe?

Maximus69:


Now i know you're not sincere with your argument!

If Serena's case (handled in the best hospitals on this planet) is not that serious, then what brought about the blood transfusion saga?
I told you that it's antagonists who just feel like spiting Jehovah's Witnesses that often create unnecessary tension with rumours!
And as for BELIEF, do you know of any religion claiming Christians with any form of unique belief?
Come on, all of you just worship anywhere you find yourselves, and whatever is accepted generally in the society is your norms!

So how do you expect people having FAITH to take you serious when there is virtually NOTHING you truthfully believe?

By people having faith, you're not talking of JW are you? Your faith is nothing to be desired my dear. It leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth.
I believe in humanity, I believe in the sanctity of life. I have many things I truthfully believe in.
Again, regarding Serena Williams, there was never any transfusion saga. Seun created a thread based on assumptions and wondered if it was because of blood transfusion as a JW that Serena had issues after childbirth. I made known to him and yourself that forming blood clots in the lungs and its treatment had nothing to do with transfusion, and Serena's beliefs as a JW. Serena never needed blood, so there is no saga as per blood transfusion, no matter how much you want to believe that narrative

Perhaps you should watch this video on her birth complications and it will explain further there was never any blood transfusion issue.
There's another video where you hear her talk personally about her ordeals (on HBO, YouTube) but sadly I cannot access that video anymore.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OVuDXJtUgQ

eyinjuege:

Why are you leaving a link for a paediatric surgical write up for us? The premature child had jaundice at birth, and it wasn't weeks after birth for us to think it had anything to do with surgeons. It's simply a pure paediatric case.
Your link is talking about perioperative conditions and blood transfusion.
Are you a paediatrician? If you're not, then kindly do not make any uninformed opinion on this matter, and stop doing GIGO for us here.
There was nothing overzealous about what the government officials did and they were not quick enough in getting that child away from it's parents. Every hospital should have a standard operating procedure in place for such cases where parents want to kill their underage children either by omission or commission.
. They should never have allowed the parents step out of the hospital with that child in the first place and the police should have been waiting by the hospital door
If you are a pediatrician who's a Jehovah witness, then we can talk on why other non blood products wasn't an option for this child.
Thank you.

Doctors no be Almighty God, but their services & expertise are well appreciated.
They are still learning more & more to improve their competency.
I'm not here to dictate how you should practice your professional calling.
Every case is different, You & I were not there at the scene it occurred, there are vital , details we do not know about which would have given us the true ,unadulterated picture of what transpired there.
**************
It makes good sense to note this statement by your medical professional journal:
"The unique problems of
the tiny premature neonate whose
blood
volume may only be eight teaspoons
are
formidable. Yet an open mind to the
alternatives and options in the use or
non-
use of blood and blood products is an
essential attitude for the modern
practitioner
in this field.",
**********"*""****
God bless.

Janosky:



Doctors no be Almighty God, but their services & expertise are well appreciated.
They are still learning more & more to improve their competency.
I'm not here to dictate how you should practice your professional calling.
Every case is different, You & I were not there at the scene it occurred, there are vital , details we do not know about which would have given us the true ,unadulterated picture of what transpired there.
**************
It makes good sense to note this statement by your medical professional journal:
[/b]"The unique problems of
the tiny premature neonate whose
blood
volume may only be eight teaspoons
are
formidable. Yet an open mind to the
alternatives and options in the use or
non-
use of blood and blood products is an
essential attitude for the modern
practitioner
in this field.",[b]
**********"*""****
God bless.

Of course Drs are not Almighty God. Whoever said they were? Blood transfusions have saved millions of lives worldwide for years. I always thank God for the knowledge bestowed upon scientists regarding blood transfusion.
I have read the same article you keep posting and you've not still said anything. It says to keep an open mind to the use of blood and non blood products, which I agree with.
Drs usually will prefer non blood products to blood if not clinically indicated. That's standard practice. Non blood products are used all the time in the hospitals, but if your case needs transfusion, then it is what it is..
As you rightly said, not all cases are the same. Every medical case is unique on it's own, and because a child with jaundice is treated with lights doesn't mean the twin sister of that child who also has jaundice will not need blood transfusion.
There is sadly no alternative yet for a child who has severe jaundice, with levels going higher despite your light therapy other than exchange blood transfusion. Perhaps your leadership should pay and support more research and come up with something more effective than blood transfusion