alj harem1:

dapobear, u are talking trash here

what do you mean by unproductive

If you don't want me to talk honestly about these things, I can tip-toe around them. But the truth is the truth. You yourself you'd stay in Lagos rather than moving North.

Nsiman:

Whoever northerner that has oil blocks when time comes the ownership will be reviewed, the status quo won't be maintained.

and what do you mean

do not tell me you are trying to say if a northerner has already bought an oil block before nigeria split, you will collect it back when it split

I shall not go back to colonial mentality in the formation of countries that had led to retrogressive nature of Africa. I would want Igbo land to become a republic and granted to allow Ibibio, Annang, Ogoni, Ekoi and Ijo of eastern region to join on their accord. If contiguous principles shall play a part, I shall not mind if Idoma (Benue State) joined.    

However, if we had to engage in fratricidal struggle to realize this dream of Nigeria’s integration, military expansionism is a valuable option to determine where boundary shall be drawn.

@ Akhenaten, get half of what? They have used our oil and develop their areas and dump the areas the wealth is made that is enough, without oil all these imbroglio in the south called MEND and the like will not be. The sourtherners esp. the s.s will be the most peaceful and happiest place to live in this planet. Pls the north shld look elsewhere not oil blocks.

Dapo, Egypt & Sudan are friendly countries with long term pact concerning the Nile & even at that, tension do flair up now and again.

Re the River Niger, There is the Niger Basin Commission made up of countries through which the niger flows. And as most, if not all,these countries are also members of Ecowas, it has been relatively easy for them to manage access.

If you want an example of what happens where countries/territories dont get along, look at R Jordan, and ask Palestinians what Israel has done to that river.

As I said, we either want to split in a peaceful mature way, or we want years of post-split wrangles that does no one any favours.

eku_bear:

If you don't want me to talk honestly about these things, I can tip-toe around them. But the truth is the truth. You yourself you'd stay in Lagos rather than moving North.

yes i stayed in the lagos because it was the capital then
also, it is the commercial centre of nigeria, that is the state that make money for nigeria so anyone can go there

i also stayed in anambra for sometime, so it is not only lagos i stayed because development, i have also spent some days in ibadan etc and now i am back in the north which i perfer than any southern state

dapobear, if you think lagos is that nice, why don't u move to lagos, why stay in Abuja(northern state)

Dede1:

I shall not go back to colonial mentality in the formation of countries that had led to retrogressive nature of Africa. I would want Igbo land to become a republic and granted to allow Ibibio, Annang, Ogoni, Ekoi and Ijo of eastern region to join on their accord. If contiguous principles shall play a part, I shall not mind if Idoma (Benue State) joined.    

However, i[b]f we had to engage in fratricidal struggle to realize this dream of Nigeria’s integration, military expansionism is a valuable option to determine where boundary shall be drawn.
[/b]

and if you know that, do you think benue and other middle-belt states will join you

An easy solution would be to split this nation. It helps to preserve our culture and our languages. And bring unity amongst our own individual groups.

alj harem1:

and if you know that, do you think benue and other middle-belt states will join you

If you read his statement correctly, he doesn't care if they join the Ndi Igbo or not. He just wants a nation of Igbos. Other groups can join at their own accord.

Akhenaten:

If you read his statement correctly, he doesn't care if they join the Ndi Igbo or not. He just wants a nation of Igbos. Other groups can join at their own accord.

no no no, i meant when he was talking about military expansionism, does he think that since the north and middlebelt holds the military, they will now decide to give benue state away also does he think the since there will be military expansionism, that other states like kwara, kogi, benue, ebonyi, and part of anambra state will not be forcefully taken by the northern military

1 : Arewa would be landlocked.

2 : Sharing debts (They'll borrow from the south)

3 : They'll fight over leadership (Leading to the further secession of NE and NW)

Have u heard of litoral states? Then that demacation formular/principle has to come to play

Mobinga:

1 : Arewa would be landlocked.

2 : Sharing debts (They'll borrow from the south)

3 : They'll fight over leadership (Leading to the further secession of NE and NW)

yes you are right that we are landlocked and there will be fight over leadership and further division
but, the same can be said of the yorubas and igbos, also South-south

@Dede1: I like your spirit. Unfortunately, since WW2 (and Israel, I suppose), territorial expansion has become more difficult to pull off  without causing international wahala   You are free to try though. Just don't complain if the tide turns again you; if you want to play a dangerous game, you must also live with the consequences. You cannot have your cake and eat it.

@alj harem1: Abuja is not northern at all, it is squarely in the middle belt Lots and lots of southerners here. A good # of Yoruba; remember, Abuja is close to Kwara and Kogi. And yes I prefer Abuja to Lagos personally, but that doesn't mean I owe any allegiance to the north rather than my own region.

eku_bear:

@alj harem1: Abuja is not northern at all, it is squarely in the middle belt Lots and lots of southerners here. A good # of Yoruba; remember, Abuja is close to Kwara and Kogi. And yes I prefer Abuja to Lagos personally, but that doesn't mean I owe any allegiance to the north rather than my own region.

i agree that there are a lot of southerners in abuja, just like there are lot of igbos in lagos, should we now call lagos SE instead of SW,,,NO

@Missy85: Make some concrete suggestions, then. Under what framework do you think all parties could likely agree to separate? You mentioned 10 years of additional oil derivations. What else?

alj harem1:

i agree that there are a lot of southerners in abuja, just like there are lot of igbos in lagos, should we now call lagos SE instead of SW,,,NO

Abuja is historically Gwari land, yes. I'm not sure that they view themselves as core North though, more middle belt.

Dede1:

I shall not go back to colonial mentality in the formation of countries that had led to retrogressive nature of Africa. I would want Igbo land to become a republic and granted to allow Ibibio, Annang, Ogoni, Ekoi and Ijo of eastern region to join on their accord.

And what makes you think I will like to join an Igbo republic with Anambra,Ebonyi,Enugu etc?I will prefer Imo State to be a country of its own or further still Ohaji,Egbema,Oguta,Oru to each be a  separate country.The only way I will like to be in a bigger country is if non -Igbos are included for diversity.

Abagworo:

And what makes you think I will like to join an Igbo republic with Anambra,Ebonyi,Enugu etc?I will prefer Imo State to be a country of its own or further still Ohaji,Egbema,Oguta,Oru to each be a  separate country.The only way I will like to be in a bigger country is if non -Igbos are included for diversity.

Why on earth would you not want to be in a country with your own people? I don't get it. If you want autonomy, you can have that. Just have true federalism in your constitution so your state is virtually autonomous.

alj harem1:

yes you are right that we are landlocked and there will be fight over leadership and further division
but, the same can be said of the yorubas and igbos, also South-south

Finally, you are correct.  Notice the map, no western state.

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/LocationBiafra.PNG[/img]

Dapo, i type from a small nokia so bear  with me as it's quite diff.

Framework for separation? Wao, you reckon I can address that here,,,i wish I was that clever. it will need time to develop a framework. But on broader level, we should aim for a negotiated settlement; be willing to negotiate in good faith; recognise we may have to compromise on certain things; and remember that in the end we will all remain neighbours.

Lets deal with the separation with our heads, not our hearts.

Abagworo:

And what makes you think I will like to join an Igbo republic with Anambra,Ebonyi,Enugu etc?I will prefer Imo State to be a country of its own or further still Ohaji,Egbema,Oguta,Oru to each be a  separate country.The only way I will like to be in a bigger country is if non -Igbos are included for diversity.

thank you, you are a true Pan-african.

Akhenaten:

Rubbish Pan-Igbo identity is already pretty strong. And we already pretty diverse. Look at the Ika and the Ikwerre traditions.

i will not insult u since you are new here, but you really have to be careful with those words

go to tribalism and cultural section, then you will see if ika and ikwerre even delta ibo (not igbo here) are willing to join this igbo republic of yours

Mobinga:

Finally, you are correct.  Notice the map, no western state.

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/LocationBiafra.PNG[/img]

i know biafra has no western state
i was talking in terms of if yorubas form there nation, ss form there nation and igbo from there nation

each nation will further disintegrate as there is no real unity

eku_bear:



Why on earth would you not want to be in a country with your own people? I don't get it. If you want autonomy, you can have that. Just have true federalism in your constitution so your state is virtually autonomous.

i agree with abagworo, i also would perfer if borno state forms it's own nation rather than arewa republic

eku_bear:



Why on earth would you not want to be in a country with your own people? I don't get it. If you want autonomy, you can have that. Just have true federalism in your constitution so your state is virtually autonomous.

This same suggestion of yours is applicable as Nigeria's solution.Why then would we have to divide Nigeria and still face thesame problem of "true federalism"?

In every majority there will always be minorities and natural resources will never be equally distributed.The ancient Igbos knew this and had to live on their own without conquering or annexing the next Igbo group.

Our best solution is to make Nigeria work by de-centralizing power and resource control.What pains me most is that a man from South-South is the President and has just wasted a whole year politicking instead of tackling this key issue that is holding us back as a nation.

you really think Gj could have tackled such a key issue as resource control, in a year leading to a presidential election?

if he tries to increase the sharing formula in favour of his people now, what do you think northerners will think? And can he carry such through a north-dominated National Assembly?

nigerian politics is not black & white

Abagworo is just spewing rubbish.

Abagworo:

This same suggestion of yours is applicable as Nigeria's solution.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to true federalism in Nigeria. I'd actually slightly prefer it to independence. But it isn't clear to me that this will ever happen with the current constitution of Nigeria. Dunno how federalism will be achieved without drastically reducing the powers of the FG. And I don't see how this would be done without some sort of SNC. Nobody in government is going to seek to weaken his own power.

Why then would we have to divide Nigeria and still face thesame problem of "true federalism"?

Sometimes a difficult problem (e.g. nation-building) is made simpler if it is broken down into smaller pieces.

In every majority there will always be minorities and natural resources will never be equally distributed.

Indeed. But I think this a big problem with Nigerians in general. Too much focus on natural resource extraction rather than human development.

Our best solution is to make Nigeria work by de-centralizing power and resource control.

Not sure if it is the best overall solution for all parties (outright independence is probably best for the Ijaws) but it is among the best, yes.

What pains me most is that a man from South-South is the President and has just wasted a whole year politicking instead of tackling this key issue that is holding us back as a nation.

It would be pretty hard to fix in a year.

udezue:

Abagworo is just spewing rubbish.

Nah, he raises some good points.

Hmm, perhaps I'm making a wrong guess about his perspective. . . but if you are an Igbo with most of your economic interests outside of Igboland, then it is quite likely that you aren't interested in Nigeria breaking up. After all, which businessman wants the markets which he can invest in and the economic opportunities available to him reduced?